General Discussion

rogerashton

(3,920 posts) Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:05 PM Mar 2015

I assume Ted Cruz IS a natural born citizen.

Nevertheless, he should as soon as possible make available his Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America (CRBA), just as President Obama made available from the first a proper legal proof of his birth in Hawaii to a mother who was an American citizen.

His CRBA probably in a safe deposit box somewhere. Shouldn't be a problem.

On the other hand, if there isn't any such document, then he isn't a citizen of any kind, but an illegal alien.

He really ought to make that CRBA available.

18 replies

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I assume Ted Cruz IS a natural born citizen. (Original Post) rogerashton Mar 2015 OP

He's a natural born Canadian, fer shure!!! nt MADem Mar 2015 #1

No problem. Turbineguy Mar 2015 #2

I wouls like to see his proof of being a human olddots Mar 2015 #3

To be natural born he must be vaginally delivered, not shat. nt Xipe Totec Mar 2015 #4

DUzy! Totally want to steal this and make a meme...n/t Turn CO Blue Mar 2015 #9

Macduff was from his mother's womb Untimely ripp'd. rogerashton Mar 2015 #17

Obama did not do it from the first. former9thward Mar 2015 #5

Obama "strangely" didn't make the argument you suggest because the argument is wrong. Jim Lane Mar 2015 #8

Except the argument is not wrong. former9thward Mar 2015 #10

You're relying on a post-birth change in the law. Jim Lane Mar 2015 #11

As I once saw on an episode of The Odd Couple... RoccoR5955 Mar 2015 #6

like mcfuck. pansypoo53219 Mar 2015 #7

Question about the CRBA Jim Lane Mar 2015 #12

There was a post on a previous thread rogerashton Mar 2015 #13

Thanks for the reference. It supports my guess that Cruz is a citizen despite the absence of a CRBA Jim Lane Mar 2015 #14

Exactly. The child is a citizen at birth regardless Mariana Mar 2015 #18

I take him at his word Capt. Obvious Mar 2015 #15

So do I -- up to a point. rogerashton Mar 2015 #16

MADem

(135,425 posts)

1. He's a natural born Canadian, fer shure!!! nt

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:07 PM

Mar 2015

Turbineguy

(37,360 posts)

2. No problem.

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:27 PM

Mar 2015

All they have to do is change the Constitution. Besides, then Arnold Schwarzenegger can be President. I'd much rather have him than Cruz anyway.

Then they can burn the Constitution and make shit up as they go along.

olddots

(10,237 posts)

3. I wouls like to see his proof of being a human

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:31 PM

Mar 2015

instead of just being the human waste product he portrays thru his vocal utterances .

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)

4. To be natural born he must be vaginally delivered, not shat. nt

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:37 PM

Mar 2015

Turn CO Blue

(4,221 posts)

9. DUzy! Totally want to steal this and make a meme...n/t

Reply to Xipe Totec (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:03 PM

Mar 2015

rogerashton

(3,920 posts)

17. Macduff was from his mother's womb Untimely ripp'd.

Reply to Xipe Totec (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 09:26 AM

Mar 2015

http://www.shakespeare-online.com/plays/macbeth_5_8.html

former9thward

(32,046 posts)

5. Obama did not do it from the first.

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:42 PM

Mar 2015

He released the short form birth certificate in June, 2008. The Long form was released in April, 2011.

What Obama did not do, strangely, is point out the law. It did not matter where he was born as long as he born from a U.S. citizen. Instead he got into all this 'where was he born' crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

8. Obama "strangely" didn't make the argument you suggest because the argument is wrong.

Reply to former9thward (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 09:07 PM

Mar 2015

From the Wikipedia article you cite:

Whether Obama having been born outside the U.S. would have invalidated his U.S. citizenship at birth is debated. Political commentator Andrew Malcolm, of the Los Angeles Times, wrote that Obama would still be eligible for the presidency, regardless of where he was born, because his mother was an American citizen, saying that Obama's mother "could have been on Mars when wee Barry emerged and he'd still be American."[62] A contrary view is promoted by UCLA Law Professor Eugene Volokh, who has said that in the hypothetical scenario that Obama was born outside the U.S., he would not be a natural-born citizen, since the then-applicable law would have required Obama's mother to have been in the U.S. at least "five years after the age of 14", but Ann Dunham was three months shy of her 19th birthday when Obama was born.[63]

Although the Constitution doesn't define who's a natural-born citizen, I think it's reasonable to say that it means a person who's a citizen as of his or her birth, without regard to anything that happens thereafter. That means you have to consider the law as it was in effect on the date of the child's birth. Although the law was later amended, to (IIRC) reduce and then eliminate the five-year residency requirement, that legislative change didn't retroactively confer citizenship on people who'd previously missed out on it. (If the change had been retroactive, then, IMO, such foreign-born children would have become citizens but still not natural-born citizens.)

former9thward

(32,046 posts)

10. Except the argument is not wrong.

Reply to Jim Lane (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 02:30 AM

Mar 2015

The Constitution gave Congress the power to define what a natural born citizen was. And they have. If you are born of a U.S.citizen you are a natural born citizen no matter where in the world you are born.

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

11. You're relying on a post-birth change in the law.

Reply to former9thward (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 07:49 AM

Mar 2015

As of Obama's birth in 1961 and Cruz's birth in 1960, Congress had indeed passed a law concerning U.S. citizenship of a child born abroad. Under that law, your statement ("If you are born of a U.S.citizen you are a natural born citizen no matter where in the world you are born&quot is not correct. You've stated the law as it is now but not as it was then.

If there was a child born in 1961 in Kenya to an 18-year-old U.S. citizen mother and a noncitizen father, that child was not a U.S. citizen at birth.

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)

6. As I once saw on an episode of The Odd Couple...

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 06:01 PM

Mar 2015

You shouldn't assume anything, because when you do, you make an ASS out of U and ME!

pansypoo53219

(20,986 posts)

7. like mcfuck.

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Mon Mar 23, 2015, 08:21 PM

Mar 2015

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

12. Question about the CRBA

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 07:55 AM

Mar 2015

My vague recollection is that Cruz's parents could have done the paperwork by obtaining the Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America (CRBA), but didn't.

The CRBA would make it easier for Cruz to prove citizenship but I don't think it's essential. If he can prove the facts that establish his citizenship by using other documents (e.g., his birth certificate plus his mother's birth certificate and possibly plus her affidavit), then it would seem to me that, under the law, he's entitled to citizenship. Do you have any authority for your assertion that the parents' failure to obtain a CRBA deprives their child of his or her U.S. citizenship?

rogerashton

(3,920 posts)

13. There was a post on a previous thread

Reply to Jim Lane (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 08:12 AM

Mar 2015

that in turn links to a state department page, which is what suggested my rant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026398900#post7

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

14. Thanks for the reference. It supports my guess that Cruz is a citizen despite the absence of a CRBA

Reply to rogerashton (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 08:33 AM

Mar 2015

At the State Department website, it states:

Parents of a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen or citizens should apply for a CRBA and/or a U.S. passport for the child as soon as possible. Failure to promptly document a child who meets the statutory requirements for acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth may cause problems for the parents and the child when attempting to establish the child’s U.S. citizenship and eligibility for the rights and benefits of U.S. citizenship, including entry into the United States.

So obtaining a CRBA "should" be done because it creates a proof of citizenship, but it's not a requirement.

Mariana

(14,859 posts)

18. Exactly. The child is a citizen at birth regardless

Reply to Jim Lane (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 09:45 AM

Mar 2015

of what the parents do, or don't do, toward obtaining a particular piece of paper. The CRBA or passport doesn't make one into citizen, it is merely documentation of citizenship status that already exists.

Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)

15. I take him at his word

Reply to rogerashton (Original post)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 08:52 AM

Mar 2015

rogerashton

(3,920 posts)

16. So do I -- up to a point.

Reply to Capt. Obvious (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 24, 2015, 09:23 AM

Mar 2015

But consider the constitutional crisis that would ensue in the (unlikely) event that it should be discovered that the elected president was not a citizen. All such issues should be resolved in advance.

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