Even the Greek Bitcoin forum links show real activity. If its a joke, they went to great lengths to make it all.

like that bullshit demand for German war reparations...

You of all people should know that bitcoins are supposedly a currency for the people and not governments...Greece would be begging for another bailout in a year if they did this...

If Greece make a move toward Bitcoin, the value would move up, triggering more small countries (not to mention investors) to take notice and invest. Granted, at some point it would peak out and drop down, but potentially at much higher levels than today - meaning those early adopters would be far ahead of the game.

That works out to about the same amount of units as there would be if you counted all the current value in the world in pennies. Plenty of money for the world.

As with anything, if no one wants it, it doesn't have value. If were assuming that it was adopted globally, it would be impossible by definition to not have value. It is meaningless to say that something has no value when everyone wants it.

I would be more worried about a currency losing value that can be printed at will - such as every single currency currently on the planet besides Bitcoin. If you want to see something lose value, watch all the major currencies over the next few years. All the big countries are in a deliberate effort to inflate their currency supplies.

BitCoin currecy would be in a constant deflationary spiral.

But there have been plenty of times in the past where the US faced deflation and it wasn't a problem. It's not even a problem today for practically every company in the electronic industry. Lower prices increase demand; they do not reduce or delay it. That’s why more and more people own flat-screen TVs, cellular telephones, and laptop computers: the prices of these goods have fallen, and people with lower incomes can afford them.

If you disagree that lower prices don't increase demand, then your going to have to take it up to the great gods of supply and demand.

My statement was that as price drops, demand increases. You have failed to show how this is false.

I stated numerous times here that we have a working case example of a deflationary industry - the electronics industry, yet the prediction of yours (and many others) of some monstrous "death spiral" doesn’t happen there and in fact the industry is growing fine.

So I state real world examples and you give me argument via authority. Sad.

I'm not going to walk you through the most basic concepts in economics. Your responses are indicative of a child like understanding of the concepts that you are trying to discuss. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain basic concepts to you when Paul Krugman wrote a whole book explaining them. It's pretty obvious that a discussion on the impacts of deflation based on economic modeling can't happen due to your lack of understanding of basic concepts. It's not an appeal to authority to ask you to read books (with sourced econometric data) about the topic before discussing it.


Just look at the AS-AS graph that you posted. If P* drops, People demand more, suppliers produce less, and the reduction in output causes shortages.


The currencies used by the electronics industry are not experiencing deflation. So claiming price drops in the electronics industry means deflation is good is disconnected from reality. You are making one of the most basic errors in economics by conflating individual price movements with Inflation/Deflation. The electronics industry is thriving in a period of low inflation, not deflation.


"My statement was that as price drops, demand increases."
The demand curve is downward sloping. Duh!. It's totally irrelevant to the discussion.

... the only episode in which we find evidence of a link between deflation and depression is the Great Depression (1929-34). We find virtually no evidence of such a link in any other period. ... What is striking is that nearly 90% of the episodes with deflation did not have depression. In a broad historical context, beyond the Great Depression, the notion that deflation and depression are linked virtually disappears.

Leading Keynesian Paul Krugman, in a 2010 New York Times article titled “Why Deflation is Bad,” cited deflation as the cause of falling aggregate demand since “when people expect falling prices, they become less willing to spend, and in particular less willing to borrow.”1

Presumably, he believes this delay in spending lasts in perpetuity. But we know from experience that, even in the face of falling prices, individuals and businesses will still, at some point, purchase the good or service in question. Consumption cannot be forever forgone. We see this every day in the computer/electronics industry: the value of using an iPhone over the next six months is worth more than the savings in delaying its purchase.

LOL at the first statement. When we ignore the great depression we can't find a link between deflation and depression. The facts support my position when you stop ignoring all the evidence against your position.

Come back when you have a coherent economic model to discuss. I'm not wasting my time arguing against psuedo-economic conservative ideologies like Austrian economics.

I see. Come back to me when you find actual evidence.

You keep quoting Krugman as if he was an infallible saint. Use your own brain.

a currency. The "electronics industry" isn't facing deflation unless the currencies used to do business are experiencing deflation.

Why are you so concerned with electronics? Maybe it's because electronics are the only sector in the economy that has experienced exponential output growth (Moore's Law) since the 1960's. It's so obvious that it is trivial.

My income doesn't decrease (It probably goes up) when the price of electronics goes down. Wages or employment go down during periods of deflation.

I keep quoting Krugman because his work is backed with rigorous econometric analysis and peer reviewed. If you don't like Krugman, should I start quoting Mankiw, Friedman, Peter Temin.....If you're going to snub your nose at the most prominent liberal economist's reviewed/sourced economics textbook, then I don't know what you want me to provide.

I don't listen to him because he is Paul Krugman, I read his economics work because it is backed with quantitative evidence and it's peer reviewed for accuracy. I really don't care if he makes inaccurate colloquial statements about technology forecasting. Do you think that it is relevant to your defense of deflation?

Just remember who you're siding with...

Demand-driven deflation is -- or is a sign of -- something bad. (Actually, the "bad" comes from prices being "sticky" which one might argue means not enough deflation!) Supply-driven deflation -- productivity growth making things cheaper -- is a sign of something good. Most analysis presumes it's always "demand," and that the cause runs from deflation to output, not the other way, and not some third cause. It's never so obvious. Is Europe's deflation bad or good? Neither they nor I take a stand, but it's enough to shout from the mountaintops "wait a minute, it's not so obvious."

Conclusions:

Neither theory nor data suggest that deflation may be the cause of a deep economic depression. Even in the one significant historical case in which deflation and depression went together, the 1930s, the causal relationship is dubious, and the object of ongoing debate among researchers in economic history. On average, deflation is associated with economic growth, not a recession.

and the price of the goods and services that I sell will still be just as expensive? What are you going to do then?


I read the article and it offers a compelling explanation for the pre-1930's disconnect between deflation and falling output. It is pretty important to note that the author isn't suggesting that governments/central banks should maintain tight monetary policies to ensure deflation during periods productivity improvement. And he isn't suggesting that tight monetary policy would result in increased output/decreased unemployment.

or the equivalent of less than 500 euros for each of the 11 million citizens of Greece.

21 million coins isn't enough; doesn't scale

One Bitcoin is divisible down to eight decimal places. There are really 2,099,999,997,690,000 (just over 2 quadrillion) maximum possible atomic units in the bitcoin system.

The value of "1 BTC" represents 100,000,000 of these. In other words, each bitcoin is divisible by up to 108.

As the value of the unit of 1 BTC grew too large to be useful for day to day transactions, people started dealing in smaller units, such as milli-bitcoins (mBTC) or micro-bitcoins (?BTC).

(including one Goldman Sachs installee) who have robbing their country for years now.

I love what they are doing. Like Iceland, Greece should have thrown all their crooked bankers and politicians and those who absconded with their ill gotten gains, in jail long ago.

First Greece, now it's spreading with Ireland and Spain finally showing signs of doing the same thing.

Not to mention that the PEOPLE are now going 'Global'.

After suffering under the rapacious 'Austerity' policies of the World Bank/IMF for far too long, the people are turning out in droves in various EU countries, and REFUSING to be robbed anymore.

Good for Greece, it's way past time to end the theft that has been going on for nearly a decade now and to start holding those responsible to account.

The tide is turning against those who have been impoverishing First World nations AFTER having done so for decades in the Third World.

I know the Greeks are desperate (as evidenced by their unholy alliances with Le Pen and Moscow), but this is just plain old-fashioned stupidity...

I can't imagine the amount of value taken from every citizen through overdraft fees, normal banking fees, inflation, etc... Those who control the money control the world. No one should have that kind of power.

Because you've been laying it on too thick and too often to be a mere "fan"

Do you honestly think that I care rather you personally buy any? I do in fact have some stockpiled that I don't plan on touching for a decade or two. That said, I am 99.999% certain that you don't have the capital to move the price of Bitcoin a penny globally.

I personally play the defender because I honestly think it's world changing technology, like penicillin, or sliced bread. I think it has the power to stop wars and make life on this planet much easier for everyone involved.

And that's not all... The blockchain technology that underlies Bitcoin has barely started its evolution. The blockchain will one day bind together fleets of self driving automobiles. It will open your front door for you and store your health records securely. It will provide humanity it's first truly global marketplace to exchange goods and services. It will do things we cant even dream of now.

I don't expect you to understand this yet. You think its a buzzword wrapped around a flim-flam. Your opinion will change though. Much like those that used to think human powered flight was impossible, your butt will be firmly ensconced inside blockchain technology and you may or may not even recognize it.

That said... to start you down the path of understanding the tidal wave before us, check this out.

Not sure where the attack is coming from in reference to my own personal finances; I merely asked you to disclose your personal stake...Because nothing gets defended on DU this vociferously without a reason...

It was just the statistical guess that you aren't a billionaire, but of course I could be wrong. It's going to take many millions to move the price of Bitcoin substantially. Don't take things so personally.

What caused such a huge drop?

And you still have yet to say why you're such a true believer...Yeah, you compared it to penicillin, but that was at least scientifically tested with a documented success rate...

Seriously, come on -- I've worked in PR, I know the tricks of the trade, and I know it when I see it...

At least the first 15 to 30 mins

Brussels and its Wall St operatives to control their country's now disastrous, (thanks to the same Wall St operatives) economy.

The first GOOD move is to reject any more 'ideas' or 'loans' from these economic predators, so that alone shows the man deserves his reputation as a very smart person. Just what Greece needs right now.

mutual interests and all that...

impoverish nations like Greece and Ireland among others. You forget that the world doesn't SHARE our long, long and apparently ever growing list of 'enemies'.

So your Russia comment doesn't mean a whole lot to the world in general who appear to be getting along just fine with them.

What is going to happen is that nations now suffering under the draconian policies of the World Bank/IMF WILL turn elsewhere when their country's national security continues to be in danger.

And why should WE care where they get the help they so badly need? Why do YOU care? Certainly the people of these EU countries who are victims of Wall St's 'Austerity for the Working Class but not for us' policies, don't share YOUR idea of 'enemies'.

Amazing how isolated we have become, how narrowly we view the world.

I hope they get the help they need from wherever they can get what is best for their country. It certainly isn't our business, is it?

Perhaps you would take a closer look at why Syriza had such strong support from Moscow (hint: Moscow ain't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts), and what common goal those two groups share with the National Front in France...

that you may have expressed. I didn't see it.

As for the pathetic 'they are all Nazis' routine, please, give the people credit for more intelligence than to fall for that.

Of course nations do not do things out of 'goodness of their hearts', they do things to benefit themselves first and if that benefits someone else, they make deals. Good for them.

I guess we bombed the shit out of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and wherever else we are 'creating democracies' out of the 'goodness of our hearts'.

Lol! Sometimes all you can do is laugh.

Good luck to Greece and their new government and I hope they will take advantage of anything that restores their stolen sovereignty and economy.

They have to cut off that critical mass of people thinking "globally" before it is "too late" -- for them.

Last edited Wed Apr 1, 2015, 12:58 PM - Edit history (1)

an article on the Antikythira mechanism; and an existing forum in Greek on bitcoin. Why do you think linking to existing pages is 'going to great lengths'? Do you understand how the web works? All you have to do is type:

<a href="http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/">Yanis Varoufakis doesn't think much of bitcoin</a>

and you have a link. How hard is that?

Because no fuckin' way is that legit

And yes, I get what this article is.

Very intelligent. His recent actions and his position don't have anything to do with bitcoin. This is he and his people negotiating. Very good tactic.

What is a libertarian Marxist? I am not familiar with it. It is what he calls himself. The answer to that wouldn't change any of my opinions of this man. He seems extremely well tasked for a very difficult position. He is currently working out different methods of bonds and forgiveness. His strategy is solid. He wouldn't make a change that would guarantee the instability in currency for years to come. His goals and care for his people are greater than that.

Edit to add: Does anyone use editors anymore?

Nothing good came up other than your post. I clicked images just for fun and it was a bunch of politicians who one might consider to be controversial or at least prominent.

to support Greece's new Government and I agree.

It was thrilling to see tens of thousands of protesters out on the streets of Dublin/Ireland, last week, protesting the same disastrous policies that Greece has endured and holding up Greek Flags in solidarity with the Greek people as they finally start evicting the robber barons from their midst.

First thing he did when elected was to RESTORE THE SOCIAL PROGRAMS, the Wall St installed politicians had cancelled, causing so much hardship on the elderly and most vulnerable there.

THAT was a great first step and it really angered the greedy, arrogant morons who seem to always rob from the poor, while bailing out their buddies. Enough and I am hopeful this Greek Govt is the first of many throughout the EU who will begin the process of turning these 'Austerity' (only for the working class) policies around.

...can Portugal, Spain and Italy be far behind?

- They join together and call it PIGSCOIN!

K&R

of finally ridding themselves of the IMF/World Bank crew and their draconian 'Austerity' policies, which seem to always be aimed only at the working class.



Tens of thousands of people on the streets of Dublin opposing yet another 'idea' to take money from the working class by the usual suspects, last week. These demos were repeated in Spain and Portugal.

You can see the Greek flag among the crowd there as the people of the world are now 'going Global' themselves, after decades of Globalists destroying these countries' economies one by one. Time for the people to go Global too, way past time, actually.

I can't imagine the value this planet loses because of the ongoing currency wars. Bitcoin (or something like it) would put an end to it all and put everyone on a level playing field.

The entire planet. Let the central banks have their funny money. See how far it gets them when they're the only one's playing with it.

- Money created from thin-air is worth exactly what it's made of......

The dollar continues to thrive.

Faith is all that's required to support a currency.

You could open a shop tomorrow and announce that you will accept wire hangers as a form of currency ... but if nobody else recognizes them as a form a currency, then what have you accomplished?

And economic productivity and consumer demand.

Greece has to import most of its staple products but it isn't producing anything people want in exchange to make up the difference or support itself.

Ultimately I think were going to have issues until we get to an economy that is pretty much fully individualized and automated. When the average person can produce just about everything they need at their house (power, water, material goods, etc..) - then everyone wins.

I don't think that day is too far off either... certainly over the next 50 years or so. I'm not sure what money looks like in that world, but it should be interesting!

Benefits

Low inflation risk. One of the biggest problems with our current dollars and other currencies used around the world is inflation. Over time all currencies lose purchasing power at a rate of few percents per year mainly because governments keep printing more money. This process is basically a small tax on your accumulated wealth. With Bitcoin you don't have this problem because the system is designed to make Bitcoins to be finite. Only about 21 milion Bitcoins will ever be released (mined). The release of new Bitcoins is slowing down and it will stop completely within a few decades. We have a slowing population growth which is projected to stop at around 10 billion by approximately 2050 which roughly coincides with the last Bitcoin to be mined. There will be roughly 1 Bitcoins for every 500 people.

Low collapse risk. Regular currencies depend on governments which fail ocassionally. Such events either cause hyperinflation or a complete collapse of a currency, which can wipe out savings of a lifetime in day. Bitcoin is not regulated by any one government. It's a virtual global currency.

Safe, simple and cheap. The problem with traditional online transactions from the perspective of the seller is that Credit cards, PayPal you and other online payment systems allow buyers to claim their money back. You can can use escrow services but that makes things complicated and slow. With Bitcoins once you have the money you have it and that's that. Buyers can not in any way take the money back and the seller can safely ship the product or perform the service that the client purchased. From the buyer's perspective the infrustructure for payments and sending money between accounts is potentially going to be simpler and cheaper because it is peer-to-peer rather than done through some intermediary.

Easy to carry. Not a real problem that needs a solution, but you can carry a billion dollars worths of Bitcoins on a memory stick in your pocket. You can't do that with cash or even gold.

Untraceable. This is both a benefit and a risk for Bitcoin. The benefit is that you don't have to be afraid of any organization of being able to trace the source of your funds. This is a clear benefit in many areas of the world because governements that are supposed to guard against fraud are actually defrauding people by taking their savings partially or fully. Regarding risks I will discuss them in the next section.

Risks

Untraceable. This feature of Bitcoin of also attracts crime. People can buy and sell drugs and other illegal items with significantly less risk of being traced by authorities. Bitcoins in this regard are similar to regular cash which is used by criminals. This fact may bring unwanted attention from governments that will outlaw Bitcoin.

Easy to lose. If your credit card is stolen or somebody hacks into your bank account there is a good chance you will not lose any money as banks will fix your balance. Even cash can be potentially recovered if the police acts fast. But with Bitcoin if you lose it you lost it for good. There is no mechanism to recover stolen or lost Bitcoins. If somebody hacks into your wallet where you store your Bitcoins you lost them for good. The best way to store your Bitcoins is on disk that is disconnected from the internet.

Hard to trade. You can't just use a credit card to buy Bitcoins online specifically because of the reasons outlined above. There is no easy way to buy them or sell them. There are many exchanges that offer such services in various ways, but it's not as easy as transferring money to and from a PayPal account just yet. This is likely to improve fast as more services will compete to offer convenient solutions.

Still too new. Bitcoin is only a few years old. It's possible that a competing crypto currency becomes more successful than Bitcoin or that somebody somehow finds a major flaw in the system. We don't have decades of history yet.

Can't buy stuff. There aren't a lot of places where Bitcoins are accepted as payment. This is likely to change, but for now the average person will mostly buy Bitcoins as investment.

Too volatile. Currently Bitcoin prices are going up like crazy. It's likely that the price will stabilize at around US$10 from the current US$200. Currently the price is going up so fast a webshop would have to adjust their prices almost daily if they wanted to accept Bitcoins. It's not very convenient.

politicians and Wall St operatives, IMF/World Bank morons have kept it in with DISASTROUS results for far too long.

I am so thrilled to see them take a stand finally, having ousted the Goldman backed government that plunged them into debt, while letting the real crooks off the hook.

And thrilled to see other EU countries showing signs of doing the same.

As Bernie Sanders has said, 'we need to support the New Greek Government' and I agree.

Great news to see Greece finally taking back its sovereignty!

They are in the fix they are in because of tax cheats, not because big, bad bankers decided to shaft them. Varoufakis, promising a Socialistic Paradise, tries to renege on repayments. Then he tries to coerce Germany into giving them money for WWII. Now he's 'threatening' to replace all Greece's currency with Bitcoin.

Those are not the decisions of someone 'taking a stand'. It's looking more and more like Varoufakis is flailing about hoping he can ride out not delivering on his promises. He is not coming across as very statesman-like right now.

I'm all for countries going a different path and for resisting austerity but this isn't the way to do it. The writing is on the wall for Greece.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

them back from the luxurious estates and make them pay their fair share. Same here.

But no, the Wall St oligarchs have taken every dime they can from the most vulnerable people, cancelling Social Safety nets, causing suicides and death for elderly people.

The first great act of this new Progressive Government was to restore those Social Programs.

I can't figure out why the wealthiest people on the planet ALWAYS seem to go after the pittances Social Programs provide for the most vulnerable, but it appears they simply hate to see a dime THEY could be stealing going to help the most needy.

Love this new government.

I hope they succeed in saving their country from the greedy thieves who have take about everything they could get their hands on and STILL want MORE.

Well, the people are finally saying 'enough' and hopefully one day in the not too distant future, many of these Global thieves will be held accountable for crashing the World's economies rather than what has happened up to now, forcing the working class to bail them out on their gambling debts.

Greece, like the U.S. and far too many other nations, needs to stop letting its own citizens and corporations hide their cash in off-shore accounts. That alone would help stave off situations like this.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

don't you?

Greece is now doing what they should have done a decade ago. Stop letting its Wall St/Goldman Sachs oligarchs steal from its country by hiding their billions in offshore accounts and then handing the bill to the working class.

I DO think they will succeed. The old game being played by Wall St worldwide is running out of options.

They have ravaged countries to the point of starving the populations, not unusual for the greedy and powerful to go too far like this, and then the people tend to rise up as they have nothing else to lose.

They were warned about this, by some of their own. But greed knows no bounds and causes a lot of fatal arrogance, as we can see from history.

Greece was the first to become victims of their draconian theft of sovereignty and assets and appears to be the first to start turning that monstrous ship around.

Take that away by saying cash cannot move outside a nation's borders without government approval and that currency is going to tank. No is going to move money into a system that can seize their money on a whim. Foreign investment will dry up and money won't move outside the country.

The nations serving as currency safe havens do so because it is profitable for them to do so. Unless you're willing to violate their sovereignty to arrest people off of their streets and seize money in their bank vaults not much is going to change.

The problem with Greece is: They don't produce anything. If they produced enough to support themselves they wouldn't need outside assistance. If they produced things others wanted the money would be coming to them.

Assuming the OP isn't an April Fool's joke it's still a joke. Greece may as well be an unemployed guy telling a bank that unless the bank approves a triple mortgage on the same house they're going to stop using the bank's money and start using Monopoly money. It's not his fault he's unemployed but he's asking for money he currently cannot repay and his ultimatum rings ridiculously hollow.

Using monopoly money gets you nowhere as no one would accept it. Bitcoin is accepted pretty much worldwide, although some states encourage or discourage it more than others.

Other than that, I think your analysis of the Greek situation is dead on.

In terms of hard currency, Monopoly is at least as sound as Bitcoin, so why not?

To continue to allow the thieves in Brussels to dictate economic policies to any EU country considering the massive failure of those policies would be insane.

Good for Greece for finally finding ways of putting a stop to it.

Nothing has happened.

danger from the Wall St manipulators, who sunk the economies of every country they have interfered with economically.

THAT is more than 'something'. It is putting a halt to the insane policies that have destroyed the world's economies.

Not to mention, they HAVE RESTORED THE SOCIAL PROGRAMS destroyed by the same thieves in Brussels.

Meaning less money for the thieves to steal.

That IS something and a very good start for this new Government.

Giving them more control over their money, and out of the manipulations of the crooked sharks who are trying to suck the blood out of the Greek economy.

So you want local crooks to manipulate the currency instead of the ones at the central bank? I got an idea. How about everyone use the same currency so any manipulation cant be used for some factional gain? How about a currency that makes it impossible to print ad-infinitude?

One of the biggest structural problems with the Euro is that individual countries cannot adjust their economies by floating the value of their own local currencies. Hence problems like Greece. A bitcoin economy would have similar problems. In fact it might be worse, because in a hypothetical all-bitcoin economy, *no* individual political entity could float its own currency.

Right now all the major countries are in a simmering currency war with each of them cranking out new funds because everyone else is cranking out new funds - trying to keep up. Bitcoin puts everyone on an equal playing field.

I understand why you wouldn't want to address the point itself. I think we can leave it here.

contribution to serious discussions. Greece has been ravaged by the 1% of more than a decade and now they finally have a government that was elected to end the policies of these greedy oligarchs who have totally destroyed every economy in every country they have interfered with.

Considering the massive failure of 'Austerity' (for the working class naturally, NOT the 1%) what do you suggest be done to undo that failure?

Economies with inflexible currencies have no tools for adjusting to economic downturns by adjusting money supply. Recessions are amplified. Related to this is the inability of a country (say, Greece) to adjust to economic downturn through devaluation of its currency. Which is not always a bad thing. Currency devaluation can make labor cheaper and boost the economy. One of Greece's problems is that it's currency (the Euro) isn't devaluing. It has no monetary tools to respond to its problems. In this respect, the Euro is showing similarities to precious metals, or bitcoins.

Deflation is normal for the electronics industry, yet it thrives. There are many periods in our past where a gentle deflation had the country in a growth phase. Also, keep in mind most of the "depressions" we see these days around the world are caused by the ongoing currency wars. Bitcoin can do away with that providing a level playing field.

As others have mentioned, one of the big problems with the Euro is that Greece can't control it's own currency. So it ends up being stuck with the currency policy that the Germans want, even if it would do much better with much higher inflation. Borrowing in your own currency also means that deficits become much less of a problem (according to Krugman, who I think has a good record with these things).

Switching to the bitcoin would mean that they still wouldn't be able to control their own monetary supply or borrow in their own currency; it'd also add the extra problem of being extremely volatile (look at the exchange rate over the past couple of years), and most likely deflationary since it'd be comparable to the gold standard.

I should note that the article mentions that it's an April fools joke at the bottom of the page, and then links to a blog post by the finance minister about some of the issues with using the bitcoin as a currency (written before he became the finance minister):

which is often easier than passing actual tax increases. They couldn't do that with bitcoin.

War is the greatest atrocity suffer by humanity. Pretty much all wars in recent memory were financed either entirely or part by inflationary printing. If you cant print up a pile of money, it's pretty hard to hold massive wars.

.... but I don't think there is ENOUGH BitCoin to serve that purpose and the creation of new BitCoin is carefully controlled.

I don't think this will work.

A Bitcoin can be subdivided into 8 decimal points. That's 1.00000000.

There will be 21 million Bitcoins (already half of that is out there). Multiply 21 million by 8 decimal points and you get more units than if you represented the entire earth’s current wealth in pennies. There's plenty of units of currency there to run the planet.

... that deeply into it, maybe it would be a good solution for Greece. Certainly, anything but continuing to deal with the troika would be an improvement.

This is a poorly thought out idea.

Guess it's doomed!!! Doomed I tell you!

How is a bankrupt country going to pay for the bitcoins?

...who will then spend their days frantically 'mining' Bitcoin.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

...they accept bitcoin as payment.

So, I was wondering, are there other big corporate fucks like Dish that accept bitcoin payment for services?

Why wouldn't they? Why continue to push 2% or 3% of the cost of using credit cards into the prices? Once Bitcoin becomes a bit more widely used, companies will be able to offer lower prices in the case of paying with Bitcoin over credit card companies.

Do you really want to keep funneling money to huge credit card monstrosities?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

There are a number of companies offering loans in Bitcoin. I just googled up a slew of them - like this one

https://bitlendingclub.com/

That said, as the value increased, interest rates would adjust. It actually might make sense in some cases just to save up the money instead of borrowing it. In today's 0% interest world, the fed has their foot on the pedal artificially lowering interest rates. This cant last forever. It forces people to not save and instead take loans they otherwise wouldn't have taken.

You don't 'save up' $200,000 for a house. You don't 'save up' even $30,000 for a new car. Or $20,000 for your children's student loans.

Many people use their credit cards for 30 day loans and pay off the balance each time.

Many people are living from paycheck to paycheck and telling them to 'suck it' and just save up for everything they need is unrealistic.

Your head is so far in the clouds you can no longer see land.

Bitcoin may be good for the Libertarian set ("As long as I have mine, that's all that matters!&quot . But it isn't for the rest of us.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

Slow down there king of jump 50 spaces on one conclusion.

I said SOME loans might not make sense any more, not all of them. Quit building strawmen.

Also, there is no such thing as a "libertarian" currency just as there isn't a "libertarian" hammer or "libertarian" screwdriver. You've obviously heard this crazy terminology and are just parroting it back without much thought. Money is a tool... some money is more efficient than other types of money. Money doesn’t have a "party". I keep hearing this idiodic notion and every time it just sounds like freepers tossing around terminology without thinking - like "Their taking out jobs!' or "This is a Christian country"... Man I hate speech without any coherent thought.

Look. It's obvious you made up your mind on this topic. You gave one of your issues with Bitcoin and I proved it wrong. Your coming up with 50 more now. Maybe at some point you need to step back and examine your own confirmation biases?

Ultimately it really doesn’t matter what you think though. The world will simply ignore your opinion and keep on doing what its doing... and Bitcoin use is growing. There's nothing you can do to stop it. Deal with it.

I just pointed out its inherent weaknesses. I have no skin in this game, unlike you who have admitted you are invested in Bitcoin for your retirement.

I couldn't care less if it succeeds or fails. I pointed out that your posts regarding doing away with middlemen are unrealistic since much of our economy -like it or not- depends on those middlemen, for the major loans I already mentioned, as well as for the 30-day loans that many people depend on.

Banks and credit cards serve a purpose. They certainly need some 'finessing' in regards to fair practices but they aren't going away.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

No evolution, no development... Pure conservatism at its best.

"since much of our economy -like it or not- depends on those middlemen"

Much like those buggy whip and candle makers... We cant change as they need jobs too.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Your detailed application of knowledge and logic swept through here and cleared the confusion. There was simply no way to rebut that artful display of analysis.

No point trying to argue with an apostle.

When I asked you last week if you were trying to sell or make money off of bitcoin, you said "not really".

What about "no"?

After I asked you, you didn't post for a week, then returned to post this OP and then proceeded to argue with EVERYONE that expressed any skepticism or criticism of bitcoin.

Bitcoin revealed: a Ponzi scheme for redistributing wealth from one libertarian to another
If Bitcoin were a currency, it'd be the worst-performing one in the world, worse even than the Russian ruble.

But Bitcoin isn't a currency. It's a Ponzi scheme for redistributing wealth from one libertarian to another. At least that's all it is right now. One day it could be more. Venture capitalists, for their part, are quick to point out that it's really a protocol, like the early internet, and its underlying technology could still be revolutionary. What are they supposed to say, though, when they've bet hundreds of millions of dollars on it?

But that's not much of a consolation to anyone who bought anywhere near Bitcoin's $1,100 top. Or near $1,000, or $900, or $800, or, well even yesterday's prices. That's because Bitcoin hasn't just fallen 76 percent the past year. It's fallen 36 percent the past two days, as you can see below, with a 24 percent decline the past 24 hours. It's too bad Bitcoin doesn't have a central bank to help stabilize its value.

There might be a good reason no one else is doing it.

Besides, it still ties the economy to a currency it can't control or devalue. Might as well say they are going to run on dollars.

This is GreekReporter’s April Fools’ story and the Greek Finance Minister has actually written about the flaws of Bitcoin here. So, no cryptocurrency in Greece, hopefully the country will stay in the Euro. Happy April 1st! - See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com