That was reason enough for that cop.

An old friend, a young black man, used to live on the better side of town, drove a new model Volvo. Wore a suit to work. Got pulled over once a month. Never ticketed.

A black man who drives too ugly a car or too nice a car... or too average a car, because then he looks like he's trying to blend in, so he must be up to something...

I was wondering how long it would take before someone addressed this particular issue, black men driving Mercedes.

When you wrote:
So this kid literally got arrested for looking funny at a cop, no matter what the official report said. The cop told me "a black kid who looks at a cop like that without lowering his eyes is going to do something. He's arrogant, and just looking for trouble." The way he saw it, he was preventing a crime. He also said the kid probably wouldn't go to jail for a first offense like that, so it was no big deal.

It reminds me of a story I read on a French language site about Parisian police and relations with Algerians. Some Parisian police had a reputation for arresting and harassing Algerian males for the same attitude. The story talked of the police addressing Algerian males with "a bas les yeux", literally "lower your eyes".

Given that Algerians in France are also treated as second class citizens, even though many were born and raised in France, the similarity in outlook and behavior is striking.

Not sure what the alternative is. Paying the same type cowboys more isn't going to help. Hiring non-cowboy types might, but government officials won't pay what it takes.

Courts and videos may have to change attitudes. Hopefully the good police will step up too.

Raymond Chandler once wrote in a Philip Marlowe novel something like "Law enforcement is a field that requires angels but rarely attracts them." It's a timeless problem--think of the Robin Hood legends. We just keep the pressure on until they are at least a little more afraid, I guess.

Cops have completely forgotten that the point of their existence is to keep people in their community safe. They have the mindset of jailers, that everyone is a potential criminal, that they have the power to "keep people in line." They are given quotas of citizens to fine or arrest to make up budget shortfalls or make their chief look tough on crime. They are at war with the people whom they are meant to serve. If we really went back and restructured the police to Protect & Serve we could change this.

and I would add; end the militarization of police. Check cops for steroid use after every shooting or excessive force situation.

Better and yearly psychological screening should also be part of the solution.

be a massive change. And fire ALL recruiters and start over. Yes, I said that.

I worked in an alternative high school, which means these were kids who were barely able to graduate or likely drop outs. Poor students, not a lot of options. Who were the only job recruiters who came to my school? The Army and The Police. I refused to let them speak in my room, but the principal let them talk on lunch break.

The police guy showed up with a tricked-out Trans Am police cruiser. He told them, you could be driving this. These kids who barely had money to eat, their eyes lit up. He started showing all the cool gadgets. Of course the kids asked about the guns--he didn't have them for show but he talked it up. And you know who was interested? The most troubled kids, the losers, the most violent (who weren't gang members because they already had their outlet). All the kids that if you asked, I would have said should not be interacting with the public with a gun. They were looking for exactly that.

I also knew a guy in college who ended up becoming a cop. We were all surprised as he was a fun guy and he certainly had carreer options. Two years later, he's volunteering every time to be the first guy through the door on raids, he's totally roided up and a bit distant, like a thousand yard stare thing. It's almost as if he had a death wish or a need for a massive adrenaline rush. I may sound as though I am exaggerating, but it really was a startling transformation.

I'm trying to say that the force is looking for the most violent, disturbed people because they think that is necessary to fight a war with civilians armed to the teeth. They are given military-style training and military-style weapons. They sure as hell aren't trained to descalate or keep the peace. They aren't taught to be a part of the community. Our endless war is creating traumatized, violent vets who then come back and the best-paying job they can get is a cop. And the recruiters sniff them out.

I have to say, we don't need a small change, because the whole thing is symptom of a lot of problems in our country. Chickens coming home to roost and all.

That's all I wanna know. Where's the good cop? After all, the bad cops are a "few bad apples", so where's the good cop?

If a so called "good" cop sits back and allows the bad stuff to happen without saying or doing anything to stop it they are not a bit better than the cop who did the "bad" stuff....

At this point in time I have lost all trust of the police in almost every instance...And will never see what happen what needs to be done .. They need to put a body cam on each and every one of them with some very stiff consequences for turning it off or not getting a replacement if it is "acting up"

Yes, cop culture would have to change. And that would take a generation... or two.

So, if we begin now, my grandson might be safe when he's in his late40's, but not in his teens.

One should never look an ape in the eye, it makes them act aggressively.


That appears to be the moral of the story.

Actually I believe apes have more capacity for compassion and empathy than these low IQ thug steroid freaks we call heroes.

Last edited Fri Apr 10, 2015, 12:10 AM - Edit history (1)

Racist cops expect total subordination from PoC.

1) there needs to be drug testing for all drug use including steroids.

2) these cops obviously have aggression problems and likely some sort of PTSD from being vets, etc.

3) The police force needs to stop being a source of income for the city/county/state

That is frightfully astute.

They'll defend themselves, but not normally looking for a fight.

Chimps, otoh, can be mean little fuckers. Also quite amazing and smart, but a strong agressive streak.

a few discussions confirm what you posted but it is even worse.

Cops discussed stopping an elderly black man who walked
Past them proudly, without sowing fear.

Another discussion was about pulling a black man out of his jaguar.


Those type of incidents.. putting blacks in their place make them happy

I'm white, female, and middle aged.

I knew about the tail light because a friend had just told me about it.

I told the cop that too. I got a warning.

The cop was Asian...wonder if I should make something out of that? Oh and he was male and young.

Not true.

Please print the quote where he said what you claim? I do not believe the OP ever mentioned "whites"

but some of it might be implied since he did concentrate on how officers perceive minorities.

That said, many folks really are having a problem now that this is starting to rear it's ugly head outside of places like South East LA, or Lincoln Park, or Ferguson. What the OP wrote is more than just common knowledge in the places I just listed. Trust me, I have had those long conversations.

Hmmm...and a lack of real empathy, I'd say.

White Fragility.

I've been pulled over for brake light, tail light issues in the past.

I've certainly never run away when that happened.

But whites DO get pulled over for these stupid things.

while minorities, it can escalate to other things, because the tail light is the probable cause the officer needs. Did the officer ask you to search your car? This is a more common scenario for minorities. We are all driving violations, and all our vehicles, well we could be stopped every three blocks. Chief Dixon just mentioned that statistic in the Lawrence O'Donnell show that I did read in a specialized journal.

It is not that whites are not stopped. You are, it is what happens after the stop.

Again, read the statistics. One of my members of the city council, an african american woman, who used to be a police Lt. confronted the Chief for what looks like race based traffic stops. My cops are not alone.

Last fall I was pulled over for a dead headlight. I am white male, long hair dirty hippie from the cop's perspective (real hippies think I'm a little mainstream, just pointing out how the cop probably sees me).

It isn't much different for people like me. My kid was in the car with me. When I went for the reg, the cop saw my medical mj permit, at that exact moment decided he smelled some (yeah right), pulled me out, called for backup, searched me and my car, all in front of my kid, constantly escalating with no reason (he kept saying he was afraid for his safety, no reason whatsoever other than to set up a possible escalation). In the end, after sufficiently terrorizing us, they let me go, half hour out on main street in front of the whole town and my kid with three cop cars and the whole scene, for a headlight.

I can also vouch for the "don't look them in the eye" thing, they definitely look for deference anytime I see them, have to be careful.

So race is a huge factor, but it's really just any outlier group, anyone who is different.

That is cultural, they pre-select themselves by who wants to be a cop and the departments actively select for it too, IMO.

Change has to happen by forcing different hiring and training practices, and by independent police review and accountability (not this internal investigation BS) de-coupled from the DA's office, since the DA works directly with the cops and will have their backs. Ending the drug war would go a long way toward ending a lot of this. And the change has to be demanded, loudly and continually, by all of us any way we can, the system will resist change so it won't be easy but it has to happen.

this answer to somebody else on this thread might illuminate things further. We as a society, don't mean minorities who already know it, or outliers, need to wake up and fast.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6486326

"the Talk" from their parents. In the 1990s I gave my very white son "the Talk" because cops would see him as a member of a marginalized, safely abused group because despite being the middle class son of college professors, he dressed punk, mohawk and all:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6489678

I was a bit nervous about being pulled over, in case I had been speeding or something, but it was only about my light. Which I subsequently got fixed.

Did I mention I was a middle aged white woman in an old but very functional car? Could that have something to do with my car not being turned inside out, with me not being frisked with my hands on the roof of my car, with me not getting Tased (or killed) for "looking funny at the cop"?

One thing I've learned in recent years, a lot of it at DU, is that my sheer expectation of being treated decently in an encounter with the police, and the fulfillment of that expectation, is actually what is meant when POCs refer to "white privilege."

Can't say it's a privilege I either asked for or earned, and while it makes my own personal life a lot safer, I wish like hell it extended to every other American.

only verbal warnings. I, too, benefit from white privilege.

out of the fact that the cop was Asian, go right ahead. You must be so persecuted, huh.

Or do you find discussions such as this silly in spite of the evidence that people of color are disproportionately stopped and arrested or even killed during a stop for a broken tail light?

I asked my friend if he had ever been pulled over for "driving while black".

He said only once, while he and his wife were driving a Mercedes. He also said that he watched very carefully how he dressed, as to control perceptions to a certain extent.

He is a big, broad-shouldered, very dark-skinned guy. We go out to lunch together once a week. The irony is that several times he has been mistaken for a cop, and his lunch gets comped by the restaurant.

Panera has a police discount code, just so that you know.

but it is a culture issue, and one that people need to finally confront. The only way to fix the culture in policing is to get our heads out of collective asses, we have been living a dream, and shite a bright light. We also must demand changes that will effectively curb this. This includes accountability, and the end of thinking that every police officer is a good guy, and every person they arrest is a bad guy. You'd be surprised how many cops are not good guys, more than just a few bad apples, and how many people they arrest really did not do much.

And yes, there is a clear racial component to policing in the U.S.

I can't even think of anything else to say.....

See Jordan v. City of New London, US Court of Appeals, Second Circuit Aug. 23, 2000 -- police are not required to hire the brightest applicant. So, of course, they don't.

Yes, yes, yes, not all cops are uneducated, frustrated bullies, but enough of them ARE that we see stories like this over and over.

Damn, Damn Damn. There are too many of them.

The police seem to make a lot of assumptions and act on them without any real evidence.
It seems that if someone looks like they may cause trouble the cop could watch him but shouldn't be allowed to get involved until he sees a move to actually do something.
To arrest someone because you think they might possibly do something is Minority Report policing.

Two black fellows walking down the sidewalk of a 4-lane street. One about a block ahead of the other. The one in front turns and hollers something to the other one.

Nearby, a motorcycle cop running the local speed trap does a 180 and cuts onto the sidewalk in front of the yeller. Giving him the whole routine. His papers, hassling him. On and on and on. The black guy acting very submissive and cooperative.

The friend hangs back half a block away. I stood and watched for many moments. Wanting to be present in the moment and yet afraid the officer will see me watching him.

Saw where there are apps which make it easy and low profile to record, like Cop Block. I'm white and think we all need to stand up for one another.

because they all hide behind their blue wall of silence. If a cop does something bad, will another cop turn him/her in? I don't think so.
This is the part where I say that they are ALL bad cops, because the "good" ones will not turn the "bad" ones in for their crimes.
They all hide behind their blue wall, they all lie under oath, and they all selectively enforce the law.

highway while helping a stranded motorist during a snow storm. He was run over by a drunk 18 wheeler driver, with suspended license for drunk driving. This was the same cop who helped us in a fight with our city,without him we would have lost badly. He bucked the city, and his department, and he didn't even know us at first, just wanted to do the right thing. Broad brushes don't help anything. He was a good cop, and a good man.

If one of his fellow cops had done something wrong, would this one have stood up to the police force?
You say that he bucked the city and his department, but you do not state what he did, so how am I supposed to believe that he did anything?

the town's leaders and the police dept. It was an issue that ended up with most of the town on our side, but it was a very long battle, during a very, very difficult time for us. He was supposed to arrest my husband for an "illegal berm" but after hearing our side, he not only refused to arrest us, but gave us 6 mo. of continuances that allowed us to get it shape, so that when it did go to court, we won the case against us, which was brought by our neighbors, whose relatives ran the town. This is the very short version, but when I say he bucked the town's leaders, HE DID. You can believe me or not, it's up to you - I've told this story before here on DU.

Please notice, I was defending this ONE officer. Years later, I had another encounter with another local cop whose behavior toward an elderly African-American woman was so horrific I got involved. As a result, he began following me around town. My husband thought I must be exaggerating, until he stopped us one night while he was driving. He told my husband to "get me under control before something bad happened to me". We went home and my husband called his friend, the local police Chief. That cop was fired the next day.

We've had several dealings with the local cops in the 35 years we've lived in our small town, one very good, one very bad, one quite humorous, most of them mediocre. On the whole, I agree that things have changed with the police, especially in larger towns and cities, and it's downright scary. Sometimes, I think they've declared open season on African Americans, and that infuriates me.

Please send me a reply, since I did answer you accusation. If you need the entire, very long story - that would take a much longer post.

I clearly see that you have had little encounter with them.
On the other hand, as a computer tech for a local government agency, I see a lot more, and a lot of them in my 25 years on the job.
Most of them have the attitude that they are the law, so they don't have to obey the law.
I have seen stuff on their computers that is criminal, and have turned it into my manager, several years ago. Well rather than doing anything to remedy the situation, he has assigned me to other departments and I never see any "law enforcers'" computers any more. That is okay with me.

Also, when I was much younger, I was a teen in Brooklyn, NY. Many would call me a hippie. I lived in the poor area with my parents, and the police there were always messing with people of color, and hippies. Throughout my late teens and early twenties, every where I went I was stopped by police, whether walking, driving, or just standing somewhere.
This has given me a tiny bit of insight as to what it is like today to be a person of color with all the racist cops out there. And let me tell you, they feel the same way about any color hippies that they do people of color. They hate them.
Even though today, with my short grey hair, clean shaven face, and "normal" clothing, I can relate to my past, and can see that things have not changed one bit since the 70s.

when necessary, even if the person who needs help is a POC. That doesn't lessen the wrongness of the racism, brutality, and coverup culture in police departments and among police in general.

Lansing Mi, a much larger town, and there have been several people killed by cops, all "justified" according to the local DA. This includes a DEAF African-American man shot in the back while"brandishing" a rake who "refused" the cop's orders to put down the rake, while the neighbors screamed that the man didn't hear them, because he was deaf. It was called "justified" too, and this was at least 2 decades ago. You see, the cop "feared for his life" because of the danger of that rake. Sound familiar?

In fact, there have been 3 men killed in the mid-Michigan area in just the last 4-5 months, 2 of which have already been declared "justified". Lansing cops just aren't scary, they're easily frightened. And armed. I avoid Lansing, as much as possible.

Taking his scuba instructor course. Out strolling, heard screams. Went to see if he could help.
Saw 2 cops putting a beat down on a black guy.
Cop sees him and asks if he wants some of the same.
My friends says NO and got the he'll out of there.
Fuck the police.