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rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
Sat May 5, 2012, 03:27 PM May 2012

Is Exxon a nation?

A nation is a group of people so I don’t think Exxon qualifies as a nation, but IMO, they are definitely a strong, independent sovereignty.

Exxon has to be one of the most powerful entities in the world. They are not a “USofA” company, but an entity all of their own. They have zero allegiance to the USofA. They use our country’s resources, infrastructure and military, and not only don’t pay for it, WE PAY them. We give them corporate welfare. We cover their risks while they keep the rewards. They are so powerful they have literally purchased some control of our government and have given themselves very large subsidies. But you wont hear anything bad about Exxon in the corp-media. Exxon pays the media large sums of money for “advertising” and/or share the same people on Boards of Directors with the large media corporations. The advertising money yields favorable treatment from the media.

It looks to me like globalization means the formation or creation of corporate sovereignty's.

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is Exxon a nation? (Original Post) rhett o rick May 2012 OP
There's a new book out suggesting it acts like one. DirkGently May 2012 #1
Thank you. I will have to read that book. nm rhett o rick May 2012 #4
21st Century East India Company Hawkowl May 2012 #18
It's kinda weird that I just read this morning that "the British East India Company rhett o rick May 2012 #20
Exxon is a person. nt valerief May 2012 #2
Lee Raymond: "I'm not a U.S. company, and I don't make decisions based on what's good for the U.S." steve2470 May 2012 #3
A CEO's duty is to his stockholders FarCenter May 2012 #5
So do you agree that Exxon is sovereign? nm rhett o rick May 2012 #6
No. They are not a sovereign. FarCenter May 2012 #7
So is Exxon answerable to any particular nation? nm rhett o rick May 2012 #8
No, it is answerable to dozens of nations. FarCenter May 2012 #10
I think most of those countries dance to their tune. nm rhett o rick May 2012 #11
Uh, yes. And Coca Cola. And the KOCH brothers. And many many others. AND they can VOTE!1 n/t UTUSN May 2012 #9
Yes Edim May 2012 #12
I'm sick of their commercials supposedly supporting teachers and public education proud2BlibKansan May 2012 #13
They get double their money's worth with those commercials. rhett o rick May 2012 #29
Actually it's legally a person in the eyes of the Supreme Court of the USofA lunatica May 2012 #14
It is not really fair to say they don't pay for anything. former9thward May 2012 #15
But Exxon Mobil’s tax rate is “lower than the average American’s,” rhett o rick May 2012 #17
The average American does not have an effective 17.2% tax rate. former9thward May 2012 #19
What is the tax rate of the average American? And why are you defending Exxon? nm rhett o rick May 2012 #21
I am not "defending" Exxon. former9thward May 2012 #22
Yes they are if you believe their propaganda. rhett o rick May 2012 #23
The Washington Post article does not include defered taxes. former9thward May 2012 #24
The article also says that Exxon paid zero income tax in 2009, in fact the taxpayers paid them rhett o rick May 2012 #25
There are lots of articles available re. the taxes that Exxon pays. rhett o rick May 2012 #26
Ecological rape nation. Zax2me May 2012 #16
Yes... It Should Not Be... But Now.... Effectively... IT IS, YES !!! WillyT May 2012 #27
If they need help in "convincing" a small country to bow down to their wishes, rhett o rick May 2012 #28

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
1. There's a new book out suggesting it acts like one.
Sat May 5, 2012, 03:31 PM
May 2012
“Private Empire” details Exxon Mobil’s harassment of environmental scientists, its messy entanglements in small wars in far-flung countries, its withholding of information from Congress, its dissembling about global warming, its arrogant culture, its obscene stockpiles of cash.

In 2005 it earned a net profit of $36.1 billion, more than any corporation ever. To paraphrase a line from Paul Thomas Anderson’s 2007 oil movie, “There Will Be Blood,” Exxon Mobil sticks a straw into, and drinks, many people’s milkshakes.




http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/books/private-empire-steve-colls-book-on-exxon-mobil.html?pagewanted=all
 

Hawkowl

(5,213 posts)
18. 21st Century East India Company
Sun May 6, 2012, 05:30 PM
May 2012

This is nothing new. The British East India Company actually conquered and ran India for about 100 years . It is also widely forgotten that the East India Company was the one that precipitated the Boston Tea Party because it had secured a virtual monopoly of tea trading to the American colonies.

In fact the company flag is very similar to the USA flag today! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

Corporations are inherently evil.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
20. It's kinda weird that I just read this morning that "the British East India Company
Sun May 6, 2012, 10:33 PM
May 2012

had conquered the last independent native state [in India] by 1848." I am taking Western Civ III.

And I thought of Exxon when I read that. Major corporations are independent sovereignty's. During WW II Standard oil did business with both the Allies and the Germans.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
5. A CEO's duty is to his stockholders
Sat May 5, 2012, 06:48 PM
May 2012

That's the legal and regulatory framework that corporate management works in.

Any solicitude for the nation, employees, customers, public, etc. is secondary and is pursued to the extent that it is consistent with benefiting the stockholders.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
7. No. They are not a sovereign.
Sat May 5, 2012, 10:51 PM
May 2012

A sovereign excercises supreme governmental authority in a particular territory.

Exxon is a transnational corporation. It conducts business operations in multiple territories more or less in conformance with the laws of the multiple sovereigns. "More or less" because some territories may fancy that they have extraterritorial jurisdiction to impose conflicting laws on other territories, and various other territories may have relatively undeveloped legal systems.

For example, in some countries bribery is customary, yet the US attempts unilaterally to make it illegal if done by companies that also do business in the US.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
10. No, it is answerable to dozens of nations.
Sat May 5, 2012, 11:17 PM
May 2012

From their web site:

We have refining operations in 26 countries, 42,000 retail service stations in more than 100 countries and lubricants marketing in almost 200 countries and territories.


We market petrochemical products in more than 150 countries. Ninety percent of our petrochemical assets are in businesses that are ranked number 1 or number 2 in market position.


http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Newsroom/Publications/XOMGlobalCap/page_2.html

Edim

(301 posts)
12. Yes
Sun May 6, 2012, 11:25 AM
May 2012

Actually more than nations. Corporations will put themselves first almost always and they have the power. Corporations are alpha, nations beta. People don't matter, only as consumers.

proud2BlibKansan

(96,793 posts)
13. I'm sick of their commercials supposedly supporting teachers and public education
Sun May 6, 2012, 11:31 AM
May 2012

If they spent the money they spent on those commercials and used it to REALLY support education, they could make a difference.

Or they could just pay their fucking taxes. That would help.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
29. They get double their money's worth with those commercials.
Wed May 9, 2012, 09:19 AM
May 2012

The commercials are aimed at improving their image so the public will sympathize with them if they destroy our environment. And the commercial income for the media, is plainly buying favorable media coverage.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
17. But Exxon Mobil’s tax rate is “lower than the average American’s,”
Sun May 6, 2012, 04:45 PM
May 2012

Daniel Weiss, an energy expert at CAP, countered in an analysis that put the company’s U.S. federal income tax rate in 2010 at just 17.2 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-much-do-oil-companies-really-pay-in-taxes/2011/05/11/AF7UNutG_story.html

former9thward

(32,077 posts)
19. The average American does not have an effective 17.2% tax rate.
Sun May 6, 2012, 07:09 PM
May 2012

You have to be making fairly good money to be at that rate.

former9thward

(32,077 posts)
22. I am not "defending" Exxon.
Mon May 7, 2012, 10:52 AM
May 2012

I just don't like falsehoods and hyperbole on the internet or anyplace else. So when someone says "Exxon does not pay anything" I am just pointing out that they are the nation's biggest taxpayer.

"The average effective federal tax rate for American taxpayers is 11%, according to an analysis of 2009 IRS data by the Tax Foundation, a non-profit research organization. For individuals with adjusted gross income of $50,000 or less, the average effective tax rate is less than 5%"

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/story/2012-01-19/romney-tax-rate/52682372/1

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
23. Yes they are if you believe their propaganda.
Mon May 7, 2012, 12:25 PM
May 2012

But as Reuters explains, the oil industry uses a different methodology to claim it pays an artificially higher tax rate to the public. The industry “lumps together U.S. and foreign taxes. It includes taxes that are deferred and thus not paid yet. U.S. companies must pay taxes on profits earned abroad, but they can defer these taxes until they bring the cash into the country.” [which then gets forgiven in future years]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/03/26/452213/exxon-mobils-tax-rate-drops-to-13-percent-after-making-35-percent-more-profits-in-2011/

former9thward

(32,077 posts)
24. The Washington Post article does not include defered taxes.
Mon May 7, 2012, 01:16 PM
May 2012

Any corporation or individual -- not just the oil industry -- can defer taxes on money that is earned abroad. Nice try at changing the goalposts. Do you still say Exxon "pays nothing" as you put it?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
25. The article also says that Exxon paid zero income tax in 2009, in fact the taxpayers paid them
Mon May 7, 2012, 02:57 PM
May 2012

a refund of $156 million. In any case they are not nearly paying the corporate rate of 35%.

It's not meaning full just to say they pay a lot. They are the most profitable corporation in history. I stand by my statement that they dont pay for the services they get from the USofA. They sure didnt in 2009.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
28. If they need help in "convincing" a small country to bow down to their wishes,
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:50 AM
May 2012

the have the USofA military at their disposal.

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