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madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 04:43 PM Apr 2015

Rule 1 when I taught: Never keep a child from going to the restroom. Seems that's changed now.

Eva Moskowitz and her Success Academy Charter schools are power players in New York education. She is known for moving her charter schools rent-free into existing public schools and taking the space she wants.


"We have a gap to close," says Paul Fucaloro, director of instruction. "I want the kids on edge, constantly."
(Photo: Yolo Monakhov for New York Magazine)


Once she even blamed accidents by the children on the fact that there weren't enough bathrooms to go around. She did not mention that was her fault.

The "Eva" Empire has expanded to the Bronx, bringing a Harlem turf war for school space into the borough. Eva Moskowitz, the City Council member-turned-charter school CEO, has opened two new academies from her charter school franchise, Success Charter Network, inside Public School 30 in Mott Haven, and PS 146 in Morrisania. And Bronx Success Academies 1 and 2 are already ruffling feathers with district school staffers.

....Staffers at the district schools say their new neighbors have booted them from classrooms and stairwells, while sharing the libraries, cafeterias and playgrounds.

...."Staffers at PS 30 say Bronx Success 1 sealed off the third floor to its staff and students - even taking over a stairwell - so Success students don't mingle with their district school neighbors.

"We are not allowed there," said one PS 30 teacher, noting the classrooms taken over by Success were formerly used for tutoring children with special needs. Now we have to do therapy sessions in the hallway."


This last week the New York Times had an article about their high scores and polarizing tactics.

One teacher complained that she was expected to announce all of her students’ scores on practice tests, by asking those who had scored a four to stand up, followed by those with a three and then those with a two. The teacher and her colleagues persuaded their supervisors not to make students with a score of one stand up, but those students were still left conspicuously sitting down, she said.

At one point, her leadership resident — what the network calls assistant principals — criticized her for not responding strongly enough when a student made a mistake. The leadership resident told her that she should have taken the student’s paper and ripped it up in front of her. Students were not supposed to go to the restroom during practice tests, she said, and she heard a leader from another school praise the dedication of a child who had wet his pants rather than take a break.

“I dreaded going into work,” the teacher, who now teaches in a public school, said.

Other former staff members also described students having wet themselves, in some cases during practice tests. Two former staff members who worked at Success Academy Harlem West, a middle school, in the 2013-14 school year, said that they recalled having to go to the supply closet to get extra underwear and sweatpants, which were always on hand, for students who had wet themselves.


More on this issue from The Business Insider last week.

In NYC's top charter schools, students are reportedly so scared to take a break they wet their pants


Students at Harlem Success Academy, a free, public elementary charter school in New York.

In a statement sent to Business Insider, a Success Academy spokesperson said, "Success Academy has students go to bathroom before a test, just the way parents do before a long road trip. Sometimes, as happens at schools across America, kids have accidents."


My comment on that: Some kids can't go when ordered to do so. Some kids do need to go during testing. When did Eva get to change the rules on that?

The Insider says the NYT is not the first to report such a problem.

In spring 2013, a commenter on a website on Success Academy Cobble Hill, who described themselves as a parent of a former first grade student, wrote that their child developed problems with going to the bathroom at the charter school:

We were hoping for academic rigor. Instead we found a school that was overly strict, cold, and insensitive to the overall needs of the young children entrusted in their care. My son wet his pants for the first time since he was three years old because the school did not let him go to the bathroom when he asked. The school was incapable of recognizing that he had also developed anxiety around going down the hall to the bathroom.


The explanation of Eva Moskowitz is not very acceptable.

Eva Moskowitz, the founder and CEO of Success Academy Charter Schools, disputed these reports, telling The Times that students are allowed to go to the bathroom during practice tests even though doing so isn't encouraged. These policies are in place, she explained to The Times, "to mimic the environment of the actual test."

"We have plenty of kids who don't always prepare adequately ... very occasionally there are accidents, and we get that it's uncomfortable for the student," Moskowitz told The Times. (my comment...how does one "prepare adequately" for not using the restroom in times of great stress??)

The Success Academy CEO also attributed the "accidents" to "the challenges of sharing space in public school buildings, which meant the restrooms were sometimes several floors away," The Times reports.


That's because the education leaders in New York allowed Moskowitz to move in and take over.

The education "reformers" and the charter school magnates need to be accountable to the parents, teachers, and especially the students.
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Rule 1 when I taught: Never keep a child from going to the restroom. Seems that's changed now. (Original Post) madfloridian Apr 2015 OP
Charter schools EXCITE me....Just like private fire fighting departments do, or for profit. NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #1
lol All too real. madfloridian Apr 2015 #2
I know, which means they are complete morons. How do they brush their teeth and NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #5
You're not fooling me.... Whiskeytide Apr 2015 #44
Was listening to Ari on Sirius today, and he and his guests were laughing at how does Kerry NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #45
My turn to look on the bright side, though... Whiskeytide Apr 2015 #46
Sounds like this place: Maedhros Apr 2015 #3
Like that first picture. madfloridian Apr 2015 #7
Not allowing children to use the restroom when needed is abuse, period! Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #4
Yes, it is. madfloridian Apr 2015 #6
It happened some times (not to me) when I LiberalElite Apr 2015 #18
I've heard stories about the teacher nuns... Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #34
Cruel fucks. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #8
K&R Starry Messenger Apr 2015 #9
An independent child psychologist needs to visit and JDPriestly Apr 2015 #10
Enforcing Conformity PeoViejo Apr 2015 #11
Is this whom we are discussing? Demeter Apr 2015 #12
In a way... RoccoR5955 Apr 2015 #13
My first grade teacher was a mean old lady. She never let the kids go to the bathroom Cleita Apr 2015 #14
Back when I was in school, we rarely were allowed to TexasMommaWithAHat Apr 2015 #17
Don't kids have recess anymore? That's terrible if they don't. Cleita Apr 2015 #19
very little. very little. TexasMommaWithAHat Apr 2015 #24
I find it so incredible that during my college years yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #27
We were discouraged not to go, but they would let us anyway. madfloridian Apr 2015 #29
We should call it out for what it is: forest444 Apr 2015 #15
That is clearly CHILD ABUSE!!! AwakeAtLast Apr 2015 #16
Where are the lawsuits? Therapy in the hallway, really? Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #20
There should be some. Instead she's favorite of NYC ed leaders. madfloridian Apr 2015 #30
Thank goodness for DeBlasio, at least his election win brings some promise to Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #36
A little history: Gonzalez: Eva Moskowitz isn't just backed by Wall Street, she moved there Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #21
Outrageous figures! madfloridian Apr 2015 #22
They have the nerve to have children having therapy in the hallway! This is beyond Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #23
And she keeps getting away with it. madfloridian Apr 2015 #25
Fucking charter schools. Just take money away from public education. The kind valerief Apr 2015 #26
Exactly what they are doing. madfloridian Apr 2015 #33
Heartless cruel words from principal Fucarolo. madfloridian Apr 2015 #28
Oh my freakin' God..someone please sue these agenda driven people. Jefferson23 Apr 2015 #35
Those kids do not look happy. roody Apr 2015 #31
No, they don't. madfloridian Apr 2015 #47
a nun wouldn't let me go once.... IcyPeas Apr 2015 #32
When my son was in grade school jen63 Apr 2015 #37
Good for you and for him. madfloridian Apr 2015 #40
Thank you! jen63 Apr 2015 #41
It depends a lot on the age of the child. kwassa Apr 2015 #38
"They should be able to hold it for a certain amount of time." madfloridian Apr 2015 #39
Exactly pipi_k Apr 2015 #42
It's like a form of abuse. madfloridian Apr 2015 #43
If there is a child with a bladder problem .... kwassa Apr 2015 #49
There are older kids who use bathroom breaks as excuses, to be sure. LWolf Apr 2015 #52
I am specifically talking about elementary students. kwassa Apr 2015 #54
I was responding to your comment about older students. nt LWolf Apr 2015 #56
My 1st grade teacher ignored my pleas to use the restroom Holly_Hobby Apr 2015 #48
Seriously? pipi_k Apr 2015 #53
I remember feeling like I had no other choice, Holly_Hobby Apr 2015 #55
Worldclass sociopathic shitstain eridani Apr 2015 #50
. LWolf Apr 2015 #51

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
1. Charter schools EXCITE me....Just like private fire fighting departments do, or for profit.
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 04:48 PM
Apr 2015

Anything that moves more of the money OUT of the system and to the richest of the richest, is fine by me.

You see I am a TeaParTY person and I believe that poor people and teachers and fire fighters and Walmart workers have it too good and rich people have too many restrictions on them.

Now, Charter Schools will strip teachers of pay, rights, bargaining rights, everything that makes them spoiled.

I say if you make over $10 an hour you are spoiled.

And teachers dont work that hard anyway.

Firefighters sit around most of the day.

Now compare that to what Carly or Mitt do all day...


(actually firefighters dont sit around all day and teachers work their asses off, but for me to keep voting for republicans since I am TeaParTY I cant believe that)

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
2. lol All too real.
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 04:50 PM
Apr 2015

Hate to tell you but I recently talked to tea party person, and they would have nodded their head and agreed with everything you said.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
5. I know, which means they are complete morons. How do they brush their teeth and
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 04:56 PM
Apr 2015

keep their eyes open at the same time?
Have to laugh, otherwise I will go insane.

Whiskeytide

(4,463 posts)
44. You're not fooling me....
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 12:11 PM
Apr 2015

... your post is reasonably coherent and the spelling and grammar are correct. TOO correct, in fact!!! I don't think you're a "TeaParTY person" at all.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
45. Was listening to Ari on Sirius today, and he and his guests were laughing at how does Kerry
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 12:27 PM
Apr 2015

explain to Iranian hardliners about teaparty people and house and senate members.

That they are just plain dumb, and that no other country which is party to the sanctions and future deal has to deal with such insanity.

We are an extreme embarrassment but worse, we are committing suicide by not organizing to end ALL of their influence

Whiskeytide

(4,463 posts)
46. My turn to look on the bright side, though...
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 12:33 PM
Apr 2015

... I think the Tea Party is cancerous to the Republican Party, and the longer they hang around and the louder they spew their craziness, the less credible the party becomes. It's already a problem for their candidates - they have to campaign very differently in the primary than they do in the GE. It's pretty entertaining to watch them try to answer questions from both sides of their mouths.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
18. It happened some times (not to me) when I
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 07:39 PM
Apr 2015

was in Catholic grammar school. I don't know what the nuns were thinking.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
10. An independent child psychologist needs to visit and
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 06:42 PM
Apr 2015

observe that school. That sounds cruel.

Just the constant testing and humiliation of young children is cruel.

Not allowing people to go to the bathroom can cause them to become nervous. Could it cause them to get chronic urinary tract infections? I don't know. But it sounds unhealthy.

By the way, has anyone heard of the Da Silva Method for promoting learning. He teaches that relaxation exercises and soothing music help our brains function better and help us learn and especially memorize better. It works in my experience. That would be a much better teachin tool that the tools described in the article.

The Da Silva Method. Check it out. I recommend it. It is a little like self-hypnosis. Works.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
13. In a way...
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 07:06 PM
Apr 2015

I wish that I was the first parent whose kid in that school got a bladder infection.
I would sue every one of them until they were penniless.
These bastards should know that kids don't have the self control that adults do.
They are being trained to work in the sweat shops of the future.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
14. My first grade teacher was a mean old lady. She never let the kids go to the bathroom
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 07:13 PM
Apr 2015

saying that they, the seven year olds, should have thought about that during recess. More than one poor kid went home with wet britches. I think, to this day, it really taught me to hold my bladder for exceptionally long periods of time.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
17. Back when I was in school, we rarely were allowed to
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 07:38 PM
Apr 2015

go to the bathroom during class. Of course, back then, we actually had RECESS TIME, and it was long enough to play outside and go to the bathroom. Imagine that!

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
19. Don't kids have recess anymore? That's terrible if they don't.
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 07:44 PM
Apr 2015

It's not healthy for them. They need to stretch and exercise for that time.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
27. I find it so incredible that during my college years
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 09:38 PM
Apr 2015

Both bachelors and masters, we would get a break pretty much every hour and if Mother Nature called I'd get up and go and come back with zero issues. Others did the same. Now that I am working, every seminar or training I have been through and I have been through a ton always allow a break every hour. However we expect children to sit in a chair for 3 hours plus with no breaks. Unbelievable!

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
29. We were discouraged not to go, but they would let us anyway.
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 10:46 PM
Apr 2015

I had some that misused this, but I would call the parents and they usually talked to the kid. No perfect answers, but the rules were we were to let them go. One of my primary teachers used to say sarcastically if we would like the class to wait. Never knew how to answer that one.

forest444

(5,902 posts)
15. We should call it out for what it is:
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 07:19 PM
Apr 2015
Brainwashing - with humiliation and even pain being used by way of aversion therapy and desensitization. They don't want schoolchildren; they want Manchurian candidates.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
20. Where are the lawsuits? Therapy in the hallway, really?
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 08:35 PM
Apr 2015

Paul Fucaloro, director of instruction. "I want the kids on edge, constantly."

Wonderful, lets keep them on edge because there is empirical evidence this
approach produces the best outcomes and it is good for their mental health...it is 2015, not 1815!

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
30. There should be some. Instead she's favorite of NYC ed leaders.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 12:12 AM
Apr 2015

I think DeBlasio crossed her, and I hope he continues. Cuomo loves her.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
36. Thank goodness for DeBlasio, at least his election win brings some promise to
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 08:49 AM
Apr 2015

address the lousy job Cuomo has done.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
21. A little history: Gonzalez: Eva Moskowitz isn't just backed by Wall Street, she moved there
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 08:43 PM
Apr 2015
The new offices will cost her organization $31 million over 15 years, according to its most recent financial report. The same report shows Moskowitz received an eye-popping $567,000 during the 2012-2013 school year.

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Tuesday, August 26, 2014

*The network’s Executive Vice President Kerri Hoyt, for example, received a $104,000 raise, to $366,000. Its director of pedagogy Paul Fucaloro jumped by $100,000, to $246,000.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/gonzalez-eva-moskowitz-isn-backed-wall-street-moved-article-1.1918293

How anyone can justify this is beyond me.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
22. Outrageous figures!
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 09:01 PM
Apr 2015

And that Paul Fucaloro is the one who said they were turning them into "little test-taking machines."

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
23. They have the nerve to have children having therapy in the hallway! This is beyond
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 09:04 PM
Apr 2015

any semblance of sanity....it is total fraud of public funds...grrrrr.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
33. Exactly what they are doing.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:42 AM
Apr 2015

One of those corporate changes in which they want no regulation at all.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
28. Heartless cruel words from principal Fucarolo.
Tue Apr 14, 2015, 09:46 PM
Apr 2015
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/6703

He also doesn't approve of special education.

At Harlem Success, disability is a dirty word. “I’m not a big believer in special ed,” Fucaloro says. For many children who arrive with individualized education programs, or IEPs, he goes on, the real issues are “maturity and undoing what the parents allow the kids to do in the house—usually mama—and I reverse that right away.” When remediation falls short, according to sources in and around the network, families are counseled out. “Eva told us that the school is not a social-service agency,” says the Harlem Success teacher. “That was an actual quote.”


The school is not a social agency? Doesn't believe in special education? Well, not surprisingly neither does Arne Duncan apparently.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
35. Oh my freakin' God..someone please sue these agenda driven people.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 08:44 AM
Apr 2015

To make a statement like that, haul his ass in and even a novice special ed
attorney can rip his idiocy to shreds. Yea, it was the parents that confirmed
a need for special ed, not a collaboration of professionals in the first place??

Unbelievable that he is not challenged.

IcyPeas

(21,904 posts)
32. a nun wouldn't let me go once....
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 12:21 AM
Apr 2015

said I should've gone at lunchtime.

I peed in my pants.... I couldn't hold it and it started coming out bit by bit and when it spilled onto the floor the other kids heard it. Fucken nuns. Fucken bullies.

jen63

(813 posts)
37. When my son was in grade school
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:45 AM
Apr 2015

I told him that if he was denied permission to use the bathroom, that he was to get up and go anyway. He knew that if he was not abusing the privilege that it was mom's job to deal with the fallout. I grew up timid and conforming and did not want that for my child.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
38. It depends a lot on the age of the child.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 10:10 AM
Apr 2015

I would never say no to a kindergartner, but older kids take regular bathroom breaks as a class, which is how it is usually done. They should be able to hold it for a certain amount of time. Such class breaks happen before and after testing sessions, though no kid who really has to go is denied it. It is strongly discouraged, however. They shouldn't need to.

There are certainly older kids who will use bathroom breaks as a way of avoiding classroom work.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
39. "They should be able to hold it for a certain amount of time."
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 10:48 AM
Apr 2015

Big and dangerous assumption. I taught for decades, know all the tricks. Never assume a child, older or younger, can "hold it".

That's Eva's philosophy.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
42. Exactly
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 11:52 AM
Apr 2015

Never assume anybody can hold it.

I've had bladder problems for years. Like since I was 5 years old.

I'm 62 now, so that's a long time.

I peed myself as a child, I peed myself as a teenager, I pee myself now.

Painful bladder spasms that strike with no warning. Sometimes I pee every 20 minutes. Feels like my bladder is empty, but it's really not.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
43. It's like a form of abuse.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 11:59 AM
Apr 2015

Even if the teacher is inconvenienced, or anyone else is....it's just wrong.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
49. If there is a child with a bladder problem ....
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 03:52 PM
Apr 2015

and this is known, which it usually is, they are allowed to go, too.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
52. There are older kids who use bathroom breaks as excuses, to be sure.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:13 AM
Apr 2015

Since I teach middle school, I know this. That's why we both allow them to leave class for the restroom AND have a system in place to manage those breaks.

In addition to passing periods and lunch, students may leave the room once every class period. They sign out, noting the time they leave and return. One person at a time may go. After the initial training period at the beginning of the year, students move smoothly in and out without disruption. They notify the teacher, generally by making eye contact and pointing to the log to sign out, and the teacher nods. They don't waste time, because they can only go one at a time, and their peers who wanted a turn will give them a hard time about it. That, and there's no real reason for a middle school student to hang out in the bathroom by him or herself.

Of course, students with specific health concerns are not restrained at all; they simply get up and go.

There's no real purpose in forcing students to wait and then stand in lines during passing periods, risking being tardy. An uncomfortable student of any age is not focused on learning. Of course, I also encourage them all to have water bottles at their desks and stay hydrated; their brains learn better that way. It also means that they use the restroom more frequently.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
54. I am specifically talking about elementary students.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 10:44 AM
Apr 2015

They are often taken to the bathroom as a group right when they come in from recess, for example. The classes are spread out all over the building, so it is not all jammed up at one bathroom.

They are also generally allowed to go when they need to, except for certain specific times. We don't do anything as formal as a sign-in/sign-out sheet. Behavioral issues need to be handled differently in middle schools than elementary, because of the developmental differences in the children. Elementary is much easier, actually.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
48. My 1st grade teacher ignored my pleas to use the restroom
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 01:18 PM
Apr 2015

When she left the room, I got up and peed in her wastebasket. I used a tissue off her desk to wipe. When the teacher came back, she couldn't figure out what was so funny to the entire class for the rest of the day.

I told my parents and they had a meeting with the Principal and the teacher. It never happened again.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
55. I remember feeling like I had no other choice,
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 12:24 PM
Apr 2015

I wasn't doing it to be funny or mean. My mother would have beat me senseless if I had peed my pants (well, my dress, as this was in 1962). It just happened to be funny to my classmates and it made me feel a little better about what I did. No one actually saw me bare-butt, I moved the can behind her desk. So that was smart

I did get in trouble at home for doing it, my parents said we were both wrong. I don't remember what the punishment was, so it couldn't have been too bad. I still have the reputation for the girl who peed in the wastebasket in 1st grade. It showed up on Facebook when I made some of those old classmates "friends".

eridani

(51,907 posts)
50. Worldclass sociopathic shitstain
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 04:04 AM
Apr 2015

Way worse than even the nuns in the 50s. But back then we had a full hour for lunch and recess, and also 15 minute recess breaks in the morning and afternoon. That usually left enough time for a trip to the bathroom if necessary.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
51. .
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:03 AM
Apr 2015

Having some sort of system in place for sending kids to the bathroom in a large place makes sense. Denying them the bathroom? That's abuse, plain and simple, as are the other methods of shaming those who don't do well on a practice test.

I've been proctoring the Smarter Balanced test for my students the last few weeks. Proctoring a standardized test means reading from a script, and keeping the environment strictly controlled. Guess what the script says? It specifically directs test-takers to raise their hand if they need a break, and follow proctor's instructions for pausing the test so that they can do so.

Charter schools...profiting from student abuse with the nation's permission.

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