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kentuck

(111,110 posts)
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:03 PM Apr 2015

I cannot view the Democratic Party as serious until...

...they, as a Party, denounce the reliance of money in politics and the immediate need for campaign finance reform.

Also, the Party should call for the immediate return of the airwaves to the people and outlaw these communication giants that are corrupting our political system.

Until that is done, I cannot see how we will ever get out of the weeds...

66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I cannot view the Democratic Party as serious until... (Original Post) kentuck Apr 2015 OP
Agree. The party AND our nominee. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #1
+100000 :) mylye2222 Apr 2015 #65
This will make you laugh: Clinton Brings Lobbyists in From the Cold Purveyor Apr 2015 #2
HRC is owned lock, stock, and barrel hifiguy Apr 2015 #4
But she has decided not to take money from countries like Saudi Arabia.. kentuck Apr 2015 #6
To her Foundation not the campaign itself. former9thward Apr 2015 #19
+1000 MissDeeds Apr 2015 #36
+1 darkangel218 Apr 2015 #51
It appears so easy doesn't it..... AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #3
I know one thing. It can't get done if the country keeps electing Republicans Novara Apr 2015 #5
And I would add.. kentuck Apr 2015 #7
Yup. hifiguy Apr 2015 #12
Agree! Thespian2 Apr 2015 #35
"you have to work within the present system to can change it" TBF Apr 2015 #11
I take no joy in saying it hifiguy Apr 2015 #14
I may be sick and twisted MadashellLynn Apr 2015 #34
And the best way to do that would be to bring some of our "dear" leaders to justice for what has jwirr Apr 2015 #39
Bernie may be our last hope. hifiguy Apr 2015 #42
I agree. I am sticking with him as long as he is in and if he does not run I plan on supporting him jwirr Apr 2015 #46
Those are big reasons why I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Octafish Apr 2015 #8
"I'm starting to notice a pattern" TBF Apr 2015 #50
Here are the jury results for those who are interested - TBF Apr 2015 #9
Thank you. H2O Man Apr 2015 #38
Those explanations warm the heart. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #43
You just survived an alert 0-7. Ron Obvious Apr 2015 #10
Maybe there is still hope for DU? kentuck Apr 2015 #13
For the moment there are more of us than there are of them. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #44
Yes, there is awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #49
Which is different from the Democratic Party. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #56
I was on that jury and glad to participate. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #18
Thanks Tierra_y_Libertad . kentuck Apr 2015 #21
You, like me, must have the archaic notion that your vote belongs to you. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #24
I suppose you are right. kentuck Apr 2015 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Apr 2015 #30
i'd bet something substantial that there are those hifiguy Apr 2015 #31
In a way, they are purging.. Taylorz Apr 2015 #37
Yeeps. Its already happening. darkangel218 Apr 2015 #55
Hillary hasnt even been nominated yet, but i was asked why am I here the other day darkangel218 Apr 2015 #54
considering you said you would vote for Rand Paul Kali Apr 2015 #62
'Tis the season for purges, loyalty oaths, and blame of the left. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #64
In 2014, the candidate who spent the most prevailed 94.2 percent of the time Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #15
To make an omelette... kentuck Apr 2015 #16
So you are saying Democrats should not try to win elecitons and let Republicans control everything. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #17
No, that is not what I am saying... kentuck Apr 2015 #20
How do you enact laws without controling the House and the Senate? Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #22
Inconvenient facts. Ask Obama how well that works. And he's taken a lot of crap from people who libdem4life Apr 2015 #29
Is that what you want us to believe? Enthusiast Apr 2015 #45
Last I checked this is an opinion/discussion board. No? n/t libdem4life Apr 2015 #47
Or the front-runner got most of the donations 94.2% of the time, depending on how you look at it.N/T Chathamization Apr 2015 #25
They spent the most money. It appears that hsoe who have teh most money to spend have an Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #26
Or people who already have an advantage get more money. Which is what happens a lot of the time too. Chathamization Apr 2015 #28
We will probably need a constitutional amendment to completely get money out of okaawhatever Apr 2015 #33
K&R for pissing off all the right people! Rex Apr 2015 #23
I'm pretty sure lots of people in the party have already spoken out about this... hughee99 Apr 2015 #32
Campaign finance reform is on top of HRC's to do list. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #40
Why cant she set an example and start with her own campaign? darkangel218 Apr 2015 #52
Forced to play by their rules, for now. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #57
Shes not forced to do anything she doesnt want to. darkangel218 Apr 2015 #58
Winning is the objective. Campaigns cost alot of $$$. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #59
Ahh i see. darkangel218 Apr 2015 #60
Winning is the objective. Campaigns cost alot of $$$. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #61
K&R! You are 100% correct, kentuck. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #41
agreeing with your OP 100% then seeing it get alerted on olddots Apr 2015 #48
Are you calling for the repeal of the 1st amendment? Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2015 #53
K&R woo me with science Apr 2015 #63
Sounds like you are considering being a member of the Democratic party treestar Apr 2015 #66
 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
2. This will make you laugh: Clinton Brings Lobbyists in From the Cold
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:07 PM
Apr 2015

Apr 17, 2015 9:37 AM EDT
By Jeanne Cummings

"I'm in," said lobbyist Heather Podesta in an email blast to friends and associates urging them to contribute to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.

Podesta won't be alone. Lobbyists Steve Elmendorf, an adviser to Clinton's 2008 campaign, and Scott Pastrick, a veteran of President Bill Clinton's 1992 victory, are also back in action after the Clinton campaign sent word this week that it's abandoning President Barack Obama's policy of refusing campaign checks from lobbyists.

The creation of largely unregulated nonprofit political groups and super-PACs, along with Obama's unprecedented success with small donors, enabled him to bypass a previously vital source of funds -- the bundling of campaign contributions by lobbyists. Some lobbyists were able to make their presence felt in other ways -- via donations to the campaign from family members, for example. But lobbyist ranks include many former Democratic White House and Capitol Hill aides, for whom the president's ban chafed. Excluding lobbyists from peak fundraising also meant shutting them out of valuable perks that top bundlers received, such as private briefings from senior campaign aides or a prestigious ambassadorship.

Clinton campaign bundlers are being asked to raise no more than $27,000 each in the next month. That effectively means collecting just 10 checks of $2,700 (the federal maximum for a campaign per election) to achieve the status of a "Hillstarter." The campaign hasn't indicated whether it will set higher targets or designate additional classes of bundlers later in the election -- though both seem likely.

more...

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-17/clinton-brings-lobbyists-in-from-the-cold

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
4. HRC is owned lock, stock, and barrel
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:10 PM
Apr 2015

by the bank$ter$, other big money and the MIC.

And anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling him/herself.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
6. But she has decided not to take money from countries like Saudi Arabia..
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:18 PM
Apr 2015

..for her campaign...

However, many other countries can contribute to her campaign.

former9thward

(32,068 posts)
19. To her Foundation not the campaign itself.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:16 PM
Apr 2015

It is illegal for foreign countries or individuals to contribute to federal campaigns. Now it may be a distinction without a difference but it is there.

Novara

(5,851 posts)
5. I know one thing. It can't get done if the country keeps electing Republicans
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:14 PM
Apr 2015

Republicans sure don't want campaign finance reform or a return of the Fairness Doctrine.

You have to work within the present system to can change it. You have to find a way in before you can change it.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
12. Yup.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:27 PM
Apr 2015

The institutional Democratic Party was deliberately sold, piece by piece, to the moneyed interests that simply could not abide the religulous lunatics. And it was sold by the DLC, the Clintons, and now the Turd Way crowd. The Democratic Party we grew up with is deader than Dillinger these days.

Bernie Sanders is saying nothing that Hubert Humphrey, RFK, LBJ or FDR wouldn't be saying today and he is viewed, even by many here at DU as the lunatic fringe. How far we have fallen.

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
35. Agree!
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:01 PM
Apr 2015

Obama fumbled the progressive ball. Hillary would hand it to the corporations. The progressives have no candidate...

TBF

(32,086 posts)
11. "you have to work within the present system to can change it"
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:27 PM
Apr 2015

No you don't. Historically other methods have worked ...



 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
14. I take no joy in saying it
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:29 PM
Apr 2015

but it's time for the National Razor to start shaving some plutocrats and their owned enablers.

MadashellLynn

(411 posts)
34. I may be sick and twisted
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 05:50 PM
Apr 2015

but I got a large charge out of your post! It just cracked me up, although I hope it doesn't take lopping off heads to straighten out the mess this country is in. It will take a long time to clean up, but it has taken thirty years to get this way. I think most of the problems we are dealing with go back to Reagan and his crew of assholes, too many of whom are still around... just look at Jeb Bush's team.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
39. And the best way to do that would be to bring some of our "dear" leaders to justice for what has
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:12 PM
Apr 2015

already been done. If the present leaders got to see some heads roll because of war crimes etc I think they would start mending their ways. But if Lynch is no different than Holder I do not look for that to happen.

I for one do not think we are going to have a real armed revolution. Why? Well we are against the death penalty. We do not believe in killing. We think that we can talk our way out of our problems. I just can't see that attitude leading to a revolution.

Fortunately Bernie is calling for a political revolution and I am ready to follow him. Lead the way Bernie.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
42. Bernie may be our last hope.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:19 PM
Apr 2015

He's certainly the last person standing who preaches the same gospel as the sadly missed Ted Kennedy.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
46. I agree. I am sticking with him as long as he is in and if he does not run I plan on supporting him
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:33 PM
Apr 2015

in his state to keep him in the Senate. IMO there are none others like him.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
8. Those are big reasons why I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:23 PM
Apr 2015

Yet, nothing happened.

And also why I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996.

Then, too, nothing happened.

I'm starting to notice a pattern.

TBF

(32,086 posts)
50. "I'm starting to notice a pattern"
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 10:59 AM
Apr 2015

You'd have to be blind, deaf, and or willfully ignorant not to notice.

Sure we get to "choose" between 2 hand-picked (by the establishment) candidates. Whoopee!

Most of us turn up anyway and pick the least objectionable of the 2, but I can't think this will continue much longer.

TBF

(32,086 posts)
9. Here are the jury results for those who are interested -
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:25 PM
Apr 2015

Full disclosure: I was juror #6. SMH at this alert.



AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
On Sat Apr 18, 2015, 02:16 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I cannot view the Democratic Party as serious until...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026528511

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is democratic underground no? These post are becoming more numerous and are a blatant violation of the goal of this website to elect democrats.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Apr 18, 2015, 02:20 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is the person who wrote this alert that concerns me,
a great deal. THINK about what you're suggesting and THINK
about the words this long time poster in excellent standing
has said in his OP. If you come to the conclusion that this
OP and these words should be hidden, we as a party are
doomed. LEAVE IT.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I completely agree with the OP. Blind party loyalty is for slaves and fools.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I didn't know that Democrats discussing their party is against the TOS. Silly alert.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The goal of this website is to "elect Democrats?" Not to discuss policy and political issues? Has there been a DNC coup around here that nobody told me about? If this post is a violation of TOS I'm in the wrong place.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why hide a decent post?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The third way may not like it, but he's right.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: WTF? Why the heck was this alerted on?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
10. You just survived an alert 0-7.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:25 PM
Apr 2015

Last edited Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Hard to believe, but this was alerted on.

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is democratic underground no? These post are becoming more numerous and are a blatant violation of the goal of this website to elect democrats.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Apr 18, 2015, 02:20 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is the person who wrote this alert that concerns me,
a great deal. THINK about what you're suggesting and THINK
about the words this long time poster in excellent standing
has said in his OP. If you come to the conclusion that this
OP and these words should be hidden, we as a party are
doomed. LEAVE IT.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I completely agree with the OP. Blind party loyalty is for slaves and fools.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I didn't know that Democrats discussing their party is against the TOS. Silly alert.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The goal of this website is to "elect Democrats?" Not to discuss policy and political issues? Has there been a DNC coup around here that nobody told me about? If this post is a violation of TOS I'm in the wrong place.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why hide a decent post?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The third way may not like it, but he's right.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: WTF? Why the heck was this alerted on?


Nice to see such a clear-thinking jury; their views exactly coincide with my own

On Edit: This they're/their error must not stand!

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
21. Thanks Tierra_y_Libertad .
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:25 PM
Apr 2015

for supporting a principle. I think it is disturbing to us sometimes when we discover how some of our fellow Democrats are thinking?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
24. You, like me, must have the archaic notion that your vote belongs to you.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:30 PM
Apr 2015

And, that discussing the party that I belong to is not just a good idea but a necessity when the party goes astray.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
27. I suppose you are right.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:56 PM
Apr 2015

The Party can never be bigger than the principles for which it must stand. It is a necessity to speak up. We are lucky that DU is still hanging on...

Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #24)

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
31. i'd bet something substantial that there are those
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 05:42 PM
Apr 2015

who are already sharpening their knives and icepicks.

 

Taylorz

(53 posts)
37. In a way, they are purging..
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:09 PM
Apr 2015

Anyone who threatens the status of their Anointed One must be targeted for revocation.

That's the *message* I'm getting, and I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter, and I'm just waiting for him. If not, then I'll just hold my nose and vote for Clinton and expect the status quo. Republicans will be able to narrowly sustain the House, but lose the Senate, if Hillary is the Democratic nominee.

If Bernie is the Democratic nominee, then progressives will jump in, and rout nearly every single Republican in power because Bernie will need a progressive Senate and House to engage on progressive issues instead of the same dead issues that America has been dealing with since 2000.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
54. Hillary hasnt even been nominated yet, but i was asked why am I here the other day
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:10 AM
Apr 2015

For saying that I will never vote for her.

Funny as hell.

Kali

(55,019 posts)
62. considering you said you would vote for Rand Paul
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 02:26 PM
Apr 2015

and you love Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan so much, is it any wonder people would question what you are doing here?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
64. 'Tis the season for purges, loyalty oaths, and blame of the left.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 03:46 PM
Apr 2015

I've been here from 2001 and have become enured to it.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
15. In 2014, the candidate who spent the most prevailed 94.2 percent of the time
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:52 PM
Apr 2015
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2014/11/money-won-on-tuesday-but-rules-of-the-game-changed/

This was not unusual.

What you call for the party to do requires the ability to control the agenda. The control of the agenda comes from controling a majority in the House and Senate. How do they do that by eschewing money. It requires legislation. And, again, 94.2 percent of the time the candidate who spent the most won.

(To me, that number indicates that advertising is such a driving force that it gives a huge advantage to the side that spends the most. Standing on a soapbox in the town square is not likely get the word out to the people who vote.)

Breaking up those telecomunication giants requires control of the White House and the justice department.

You are a bit hazy on what laws they actually broke. It is not against the law to be sleezy, self-servinging propagandists. So the only avenue I see is through anti-trust, which if successful would break them up. It would not outlaw them. That assumes that they broke any laws as written.

Certainly, we should reregulate the media as they were before Reagan. That, however requires legislation, which requires control of the House and the Senate.

I agree that what you say is necessary. I just do see getting there without, at first, speding a shitload of money.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
16. To make an omelette...
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 03:58 PM
Apr 2015

you have to break a few eggs. If you are not ready to break a few eggs, forget about that omelette.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
17. So you are saying Democrats should not try to win elecitons and let Republicans control everything.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:04 PM
Apr 2015

You can not get to where you want by doing what you suggest. It is necessary to control the system to change it, unless you want to dump the whole system.

kentuck

(111,110 posts)
20. No, that is not what I am saying...
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:19 PM
Apr 2015

I don't agree with you that it is "necessary to control the system to change it". If that were the case, we would never have any change. Should we think for ourselves or should we let some oligarch politicians tell us what we should think? The power is with the people. They may have to search far and wide and for a very long time, but eventually they will find the truth.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
22. How do you enact laws without controling the House and the Senate?
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:29 PM
Apr 2015

How do you appoint judges without controling the White House.

How do you take a corporaton to court without controling the Justice Department.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
29. Inconvenient facts. Ask Obama how well that works. And he's taken a lot of crap from people who
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 05:33 PM
Apr 2015

just can't seem to grasp that the President isn't a King. Also, not having any DC/Beltway connections made his first term difficult...yet he was roundly criticized. Now, without an election upcoming, he's able to start accomplishing those promises denied earlier by the venom in Congress.

Also, how do you get corporate money out of Winning Politics without repealing Citizen's United?









Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
26. They spent the most money. It appears that hsoe who have teh most money to spend have an
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:41 PM
Apr 2015

advantage. If so, then managing to funnel the most money to certain canidates provides an advantage.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
28. Or people who already have an advantage get more money. Which is what happens a lot of the time too.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 04:57 PM
Apr 2015

Not that having more money doesn't help. However, we shouldn't always treat correlation as causation. There are plenty of people who are only interested in currying favor, so they're going to donate to people who are ahead (or look at people who donate to individuals who are unopposed!). Likewise, if some fringe candidate is running against an incumbent, they're likely to get almost no money.

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
33. We will probably need a constitutional amendment to completely get money out of
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 05:48 PM
Apr 2015

politics. Secod to that would be having a left majority on SCOTUS. With the current fascist five most campaign regulations won't withstand their ruling.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
32. I'm pretty sure lots of people in the party have already spoken out about this...
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 05:43 PM
Apr 2015

they just haven't actually done anything about it. If there's been one thing there's no shortage of, it's lip service.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
40. Campaign finance reform is on top of HRC's to do list.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:13 PM
Apr 2015

Of course, due to gerrymandering, GOP will control the house for at least a decade.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
58. Shes not forced to do anything she doesnt want to.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:20 PM
Apr 2015

Who is forcing her to accept money she doesn't want?

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
59. Winning is the objective. Campaigns cost alot of $$$.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:23 PM
Apr 2015

If she or any other Dem doesn't win, any meaningful reform goes bye bye.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
61. Winning is the objective. Campaigns cost alot of $$$.
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 12:28 PM
Apr 2015

Sometimes you have to play by their rules to beat them at their own game.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
41. K&R! You are 100% correct, kentuck.
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:16 PM
Apr 2015

If we know this, the Democratic Party and every Democratic office holder knows it. Yet, not a peep is heard.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
48. agreeing with your OP 100% then seeing it get alerted on
Sat Apr 18, 2015, 06:57 PM
Apr 2015

shows how every election gets more important .

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
53. Are you calling for the repeal of the 1st amendment?
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 11:08 AM
Apr 2015

Or do you think outlawing these "communication giants" would be compatible with it, or be viewed as such by the SCOTUS?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
66. Sounds like you are considering being a member of the Democratic party
Sun Apr 19, 2015, 04:59 PM
Apr 2015

as opposed to being an actual Democrat.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I cannot view the Democra...