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still_one

(92,190 posts)
2. I think it is for the majority of the issues. I also think it is a smart strategy for Hillary to
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:08 AM
Apr 2015

campaign and build on the successes of the Obama administration, while also pushing her vision

treestar

(82,383 posts)
3. +1. If she runs away from Obama, I'll have to hold my nose
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:10 AM
Apr 2015

Still don't want a Republican. But that would dampen my enthusiasm a lot.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
4. Obama graciously accepted her resignation. Petraeus not so graciously. They screwed up in MENA
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:10 AM
Apr 2015

and continued to push a policy option (serial regime change across the Mideast-North Africa region) that Obama had stated in October 2012 he wanted shut down.

There is no comparison that works in her favor.

Here's a lesser-known set of facts leading to the creation of ISIS:

John Kerry was actively wooing Assad until early 2011 when the Petraeus-Clinton faction took control over MENA policy, and regime change was brought simultaneously to Syria, along with Libya and Tunisia. The project was most aggressively led on the ground by covert operators from France and Qatar, to a lesser extent involving the U.S., U.K., Saudi Arabia, UAE and Turkey in funding, coordination, propaganda, logistics and support. Ongoing programs run by CIA and State Dept. were ballooned, and there were a lot of meetings, but mostly we watched civil war unfold as third-force special forces units (mostly Qatari) led armed uprisings in Libya and Syria. In March 2011, President Obama signed a classified "finding" coordinating efforts with Qatar and several other countries to overthrow Qaddafi. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/30/us-libya-usa-order-idUSTRE72T6H220110330 A similar directive was signed ordering similar covert operations in Syria.

In April, 2011, Chris Stevens arrived in Eastern Libya where he took a lead role in organizing opposition militia. At the time of Stevens death on September 12, 2012, Ghadaffi had been killed the previous October after retreating to his tribal homeland in Sirte, and the Libyan army had dissolved. Opposition militia were in charge of the rest of the country and arms stocks. By that stage, there was an active pipeline set up for Islamic fighters and looted Libyan heavy arms -- along with shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles (MANPADs) -- flowing into Syria by way of Turkey. That movement of MANPADs was first confirmed in a Times of London article published two days after the attack on the US compound in Benghazi. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/28/1137620/-Times-of-London-Shipload-of-Looted-Missiles-From-Libya-Arrives-in-Turkey#

The death of Stevens and the spread across the region of heavy arms and Jihadist Libyan fighters armed and trained by Qataris using Saudi and Gulf money forced President Obama to reconsider the policy. CIA Director Petraeus, who was confirmed in September 2011 to succeed Leon Panetta, resisted winding down the operation. In a showdown White House meeting the following October, Petraeus was supported by Secretary of State Clinton and Defense Secretary Panetta. Obama's decision to wind down what has been referred to as "Operation Zero Footprint" came after discussions with national security advisor Tom Donilon. The rift within the Administration was first made public during Senate hearings the following February. See, http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/us/politics/panetta-speaks-to-senate-panel-on-benghazi-attack.html?_r=0 Petraeus' ongoing affair with his biographer was exposed, and Secretary Clinton's resignation graciously accepted after the Inauguration. The rest, as they say, is history.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
5. There are other issues
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:18 AM
Apr 2015

Some guy with a family of four is waking up in South L A and wondering how he is going to feed, clothe, house his family and provide medical care on his $25,000.00 a year salary.

He is not on some message board pontificating if we should side with the indigenous forces or the rebels in Yemen. That is a luxury the working class doesn't have.


leveymg

(36,418 posts)
11. The guy in LA can't live on $25K/yr in large part because of the expenses of optional wars in the ME
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:46 AM
Apr 2015

Every social program and tax break that might have helped keep his family afloat has been slashed to fund regime change wars. Hillary has been a champion of these wars.

It may be hypocritical, but that reality is bound to be pointed out by the GOP (one of its "independent" committees) during the campaign if Hillary is the candidate.

Its not hard to envision such an ad: Alternating pictures of devastation in Syria and in Detroit, Libya and Buffalo, NY, the burning consular post. Roll short clip of Hillary's speech supporting the IWR, roll excerpt of "We came, we saw, he died" interview. Voice over: "Whose champion is she?"

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
6. Yes, didn't Obama say his economics would have been seen as moderate Republican in the 1980's?
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:19 AM
Apr 2015

"The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican," he told Noticias Univision 23 in a White House interview.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/272957-obama-says-his-economic-policies-so-mainstream-hed-be-seen-as-moderate-republican-in-1980s

As I remember the 1980's democrats opposed Republican economics. In the 1980's dems hadn't decided to ditch labor unions in the pragmatic search for alternative sources of funding.

If we take Obama at his word, and consider the historical context he claims, we wouldn't be surprised that his economic policies would likely not be especially favorable to labor unions, and Obama's failure to come through for WI unions by not fulfilling his promise about putting on his community organizer walking shoes makes perfect sense

And, after that when the Obamas did show up, it was to support a Democrat that believed in off-shoring her company's production.

Not too curiously the President who signed NAFTA came and campaigned for Burke, too.


DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
8. Yeah, kind of
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:27 AM
Apr 2015

"More and more I see Hillary compared to President Obama here"


(Empirical observation)



"Isn't that a good thing?"


(Normative information)

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
10. Without making a value judgment I believe they are much more similar than not.
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 09:35 AM
Apr 2015

Where they differ, imho, is temperament.

Gothmog

(145,242 posts)
12. HRC being compared to President Obama is a good thing
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 12:00 PM
Apr 2015

Most here would like to see a third and fourth term for President Obama

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