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OnlinePoker

(5,719 posts)
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:25 PM Apr 2015

We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership

Since this got locked in LBN...

It’s official: John Deere and General Motors want to eviscerate the notion of ownership. Sure, we pay for their vehicles. But we don’t own them. Not according to their corporate lawyers, anyway.

In a particularly spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere—the world’s largest agricultural machinery maker —told the Copyright Office that farmers don’t own their tractors. Because computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors, farmers receive “an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle.”

It’s John Deere’s tractor, folks. You’re just driving it.

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership (Original Post) OnlinePoker Apr 2015 OP
Patent law is in serious need of reform. (nt) blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #1
Oh they're going to reform it alright ... hedda_foil Apr 2015 #10
I have some thoughts on that topic Sherman A1 Apr 2015 #2
Been seeing this in the news a lot lately, and... TreasonousBastard Apr 2015 #3
It's tough, self-driving cars will require full software lock-down tridim Apr 2015 #5
I've got a 6-speed, but... TreasonousBastard Apr 2015 #8
Somewhat misrepresents their case whatthehey Apr 2015 #4
Screechy headline aside, Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #6
So just stick one of those twenty page EULAs on the vehicle Warpy Apr 2015 #7
that is so arrogant Liberal_in_LA Apr 2015 #9

hedda_foil

(16,374 posts)
10. Oh they're going to reform it alright ...
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:34 PM
Apr 2015

The TTP, TTIP and Trade in Services agreements will take care of that! Just not in a way we we'd like.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
2. I have some thoughts on that topic
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:29 PM
Apr 2015

and they don't necessarily agree with the concepts offered by John Deere and GM in this case. If I pay for it, I own it, but then I can at this point simply buy something other than those two product lines.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
3. Been seeing this in the news a lot lately, and...
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:39 PM
Apr 2015

I don't think this is what they had in mind with the DMCA. That was mainly to make sure you didn't own the music you bought.

Howsumever, since somebody noticed programming code was included (you don't own your copy of Windows, iOS, Chrome, or Word, either) it seemed reasonable to stop you from messing with the code and causing trouble.

Let's say you want to reprogram a chip to remove your engine's governing and get more speed-- without the source code you have no idea if you are increasing emissions or reprogramming the car's antilock brake system at the same time.

This is the brave new world of cars that are incredibly efficient and safe compared to just 20 years ago. As we go further into electric drives, it will get a lot more restrictive.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
5. It's tough, self-driving cars will require full software lock-down
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:50 PM
Apr 2015

Because as soon as one vehicle is hacked, the whole system becomes dangerous.

I still like to manually shift gears, so it's all going to be weird.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
8. I've got a 6-speed, but...
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:03 PM
Apr 2015

there's an odd feeling, almost as though the gearshift isn't directly connected to the gears. Between that and the throttle non-response, unless it's something well preserved from the 70's I doubt I'll ever get a manual transmission again.

The engine doesn't respond to the gas pedal like the old ones did. Between the odd torque curve and the turbine lag it's a weird learning curve getting the thing to move right. And when you let off the gas, it waits a while for the computer to tell it how much to slow down.

Gas mileage is good, though.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
4. Somewhat misrepresents their case
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:46 PM
Apr 2015

Nobody's disputing ownership of the tractor. JD however is saying people cannot mess with the proprietory software that controls it. Even here their effort is not to say "we can rurn off the software at will and leave you with a large green doorstop" but "you can't fuck around with our code to try and make it do things we didn't intend". I own a Tesla and a Mustang. Both have software that limits, in both cases very significantly, their potential performance. The companies have different approaches, Tesla essentially being "hands off chump only we get to see the real acceleration", and Ford's being "hey if you want to screw your warranty go for it, we can even recommend partners". I'm no bleeding edge speed freak so no problem to me, but a cross the Sterling Moss wannabes must bear.

That's what's being protected here; the ability to recode a tractor to do things it wasn't designed or intended or engineered to be able to do. I personally have no dog in this fight, even with cars. I use Ford's own laughably misnamed racing tune (which moves power further DOWN the rpm range to help city driving at lower rpms and changes some gear shifts a bit, actually inhibiting top speed) and nothing could persuade me to mess with the software in the model S. I do find it a bit ironic that DU's position on the DMCA seems to vary depending on who owns the copyright though.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
6. Screechy headline aside,
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:55 PM
Apr 2015

What's wrong with a company trying to protect proprietary software coding in their products? Why are John Deere and GM being called out instead of Delphi, Denso, Bosch, and the other suppliers who actually code and manufacture the electronics in the bulk of the world's vehicles??

I know this case is more about principle than real-world practice, but how many farmers stay awake all night dreaming of ways to "homebrew" the ECU on their tractor?

Exactly what has been preventing people from doing this up until now (aside from a voided warranty)?? Speed shops have been re-flashing ECUs since the 90s at least...

Warpy

(111,261 posts)
7. So just stick one of those twenty page EULAs on the vehicle
Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:03 PM
Apr 2015

to prevent farmers and other drivers from downloading and pirating their software, like that's going to happen with anyone but people in foreign countries who own tractor and car companies and they're going to do it anyway, scary legal language or not.

Snoopware and stallware (shuts the vehicle down if you default on payments) already installed on so many new cars have gotten pretty ridiculous, anyway.

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