Because the details have not been disclosed. But that makes me wonder how Warren knows them. I have concerns about the TPP, and am skeptical of ANY trade agreement since NAFTA. However, they are all negotiated in secret by necessity.

are privy to things that members of Congress aren't ? Here's what one guy thought about secrecy

Some things will never make it into the final agreement, and debating silly things floated by one country or another in public would disrupt the process. Some ideas are floated simply to get people to meet in the middle for more moderate provisions. Some items will be amended based on other items in agreement being added or dropped. Some leverage will be lost by public knowledge of various issues in the negotiation.

Basically the same reason the public wasn't give a blow by blow description of the Iran negotiations until a basic framework was agreed to.

This is negotiating 101. Nothing nefarious about it.

9th grade social studies .

I'm not in favor of fast track authority, but I realize why the negotiations are close to the vest. Keep in mind the TPP talks have been going on for a decade.

Unions, consumer groups,envirionmental groups, universities, state farm bureaus, etc., have all had input into the agreement. Companies that trade internationally have as well.

By the way, without the latter, we'd have double digit unemployment with no hope of recovery.

You've been sipping the Kool-Aid, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Alan Grayson are the only members of Congress who have been honest and forthcoming, those are Facts .

I'm an informed person, so yes, I know that trade negotiations have never been public, and that TPP talks have been in process for over a decade. You'd know that too if you looked beyond the hype and informed yourself.

That's not to say I'm in favor of the TPP - I'm not. And I'm not because I've looked at the publicly available information. But sorry, I'm not going to don a tin foil hat and join the conspiracy party.

They just aren't allowed to discuss details with US

ALSO.. The CEO's and lobbyists that helped to negotiate and draw the damn thing up ..THEY know.

We (the public and the press) are the only folks in the darek.

Just inform yourself.

All the way.

out against it. And the republicans are all hot for it, that right there would be enough to turn me off on it.

The transparency we were supposed to have after 2008 , has turned in to a Power Grab .

Got it.

Because they say what they have seen is bad for us, the republicans want it. That's good enough for me.

The reality is that there is a lot of info available and plenty of reasons to be against it. I'm just weary of this meme that it's all secret. It's no more secret than any other trade or treaty negotiations.

It would be nice if people stopped using that excuse for not informing themselves. But I guess it's easier to complain on the internet than to study an issue and then tell your representatives why you oppose them voting for something.

That's why the vote for stuff that screws us. They are perfectly aware most of their constituents are clueless.

and I chose not to respond to you again. You have a nice day

But no, I'm not interested in your argument that Sanders or Warren say something, so you don't have to inform yourself.

Last edited Thu Apr 23, 2015, 09:08 PM - Edit history (1)

farmers' cooperatives are against it. And, according to an article published in today's JA (Japan Agriculture) newsletter, some politicians who are promoting this admit that "98.5% of Japan's primary industries may have to be sacrificed for the benefit of the remaining 1.5%"

一方、「1.5％の第一次産業のために、残りの98.5％の産業が犠牲になるのか」と言ったＴＰＰ推進派の政治家がいる。この政治家は「カネは力なり」という、民主主義に反する政治信条を持っているのだろう。

"On the other hand, there are politicians who are promoting the TPP who have said that "for the benefit of 1.5% of (Japan's) primary industries, the remaining 98.5% may have to be sacrificed". These politicians believe in "strength in money" (as opposed to "strength in numbers&quot and hold political beliefs that are anti-democratic."

http://www.jacom.or.jp/column/nouseiron/nouseiron140507-24058.php

Or any other country in a similar position. That's what I've always known as 'putting all your eggs in one basket'. Monoculture destroys the web of insect and animal life of an area, and leaves those who practice it open to devastation if some blight hits the one crop they completely depend on. Countries should be working to have as many of the products and services they depend upon manufactured domestically for their own national security interests, not seek to become dependent upon a single or a few industries.

What happens when some disruptive technology emerges that replaces that industry? Is the whole country left to collapse and starve?

It's going to allow more imports of rice which is one of the main crops here in Korea.

Horrifying that the politicians we Democrats elected are trying to ram this down our throats. You should post that as a stand alone OP.

First, I'll have to translate a bit more of it when I have time.

It's interesting that in the past, the farmers' cooperatives have been big supporters of the LDP (Liberal Democratic Party), which now is a big proponent of the TPP. Sound familiar?

NAFTA was really bad for me and a lot of my colleagues. We were in tech and all of a sudden there was waterfall of jobs being off shored. I'm better for it but still haven't fully recovered and no one or group should have the ultimate power to destroy lives. IMHO.

Senator Bernie Sanders

Senator Elizabeth Warren

Representative Alan Grayson

He was on Democracy Now on April 16th, 2015.

He said, "It is a punch to the face of American workers".

http://www.democracynow.org/

The video title is, "A Corporate Trojan Horse".

At the top of the page just click on daily shows.

Then click on Thursday, April 16th.

Scroll down to "A Corporate Trojan Horse".

Click on the title and the video will come up.

I think they're the only people in government not on the take, a precious few .

the other Dems who's names escape me at this moment, Unions, We, the People who remember NAFTA's fallout.....

I Know Oregon's Dem Sen Wyden Agrees with the president...as does the CoC, Paul Ryan, Boehner and several other's who have cuddled up to POTUS on this.

The answer is NO TPP, TATP, TITP and any/every other form of this.
Prove to the American People why this is so good by releasing All docs for "our" collective review. I don't even trust the "corporate" hires in congress to interpret this on our behalf, frankly.

Neo fascism is the current condition we live under.

As hard as some might work to reverse it, it is here to stay I think

not the guy negotiating the details in secret. "Just trust me" don't cut in a democracy.

It's never been an "OK" with me either. It is the third way making this speech as well.

you'll quickly conclude that this is not a deal that will benefit the majority

for something that is so awful for Americans? That's why I'm not sold on what Warren is saying. I'm not saying she is wrong by any stretch, but it's hard for me to believe Obama would knowingly harm Americans and if what she says is true about TPP, that's what he would be doing.

It's impossible to know who is "right" because of the secrecy about TPP, so my best answer is that I truly don't know.

politically. President Obama is much more moderate on the economy than Warren. So of course they're going to see the deal from their own political perspectives.

IMO, if the President has to work this hard to win people over, then it really isn't the best deal for all involved.

how obviously bad TPP is. I mean, according to them, it's the stuff of nightmares. How could Obama not see that? Why would he take such a different view and what does he know that we don't know? If what they're saying is true, he'd have to be as right-wing as Bush to think TPP is good. Either that, or he'd have to be absolutely incompetent and unfit for the presidency to be that ignorant about the consequences of TPP.

There are a lot of questions about TPP and not a lot of answers. There's also a lot of hand-wringing and yelling, and not a lot of reasoned information. I've noticed that the internet often stirs people up and they can get very excitable and just stop listening and start insulting anyone who doesn't agree with them. I wonder if that's what is happening with this TPP debate.

I do like Elizabeth Warren, but I'm not as gung-ho as some people because I question why she was a republican well into her 40's. If she didn't know what republicans were about by 40 years old, maybe her judgment isn't completely sound.

We have had plenty of these agreements over the last few decades. Same arguments made in all.

Of course.