They should pay more for everything.

A $150 ticket is a killer for someone who's poor; it's chump change for someone who is rich.

In France, for example, there is one government. Right down to the smallest municipality, it is a single government.

I am not giving my financial information to the Justice of the Peace of Bumfuck County.

It would only mean the police would target high value vehicles and ignore violations by junk cars. I know some here would like that but is would be BS.

And wouldn't a rich person think twice about speeding and be more careful if the ticket caused a "little pain?"

He is part of a revenue raising machine and everyone knows it.

I don't know what my position is on the issue of the tickets, but this is not how we measure what laws are designed to do.

Nothing else. If you don't want to be informed about that fact by asking the person writing the tickets then don't ask.

If rich Republicans know old cars can be driven recklessly without fear of prosecution, old Craigslist beaters will become the new luxury cars as they will provide the greatest luxury of all: the freedom to do whatever the hell you want without reprisal.

God.

They are, however, the ones who get creative in their attempts to stiff the government. One of these days I'll take pictures of the Priuses adorned with anti-Obama bumper stickers that infest my city - people don't own these cars around here because they're good for the environment but because a car that gets 50mpg runs up less gasoline tax per 100 miles than a car that gets 25.

The rich have their taxes say zero or close to because they have it tide to a company, receive stock options and have everything in trusts. I think it is harder then it appears.

It would be tricky, but if it could be plausibly done I'd say go for it.

and then adjust it...

I'm not really very aware of a statistically significant number of rich people being more problems as drivers. Glad I'm not...

I'm not asking "where on the scale does Rich start", I'm asking "what do you measure?"

So if a ticket for a person with a $15000 income is already (hypothetically) $50 plus 10 for every 5 miles an hour, the scale starts there say doubling every 75k

That's easier to measure, but has its own set of problems - in particular, it makes people who have just been fired very vulnerable to fines, and people with massive inherited wealth but no income very resistant to them.

That's not to say it's necessarily worse than fixed-rate fines, but it does have those problems.

scale

...or some state in which I don't live or work.

No f-ing way.

you actually live and/or work in?

If you break the law, do you prefer to do so somewhere else?

That seems to be your argument.

I travel quite a bit.

There are towns in this country who make their revenue from obscured parking rules and speed signs around bends. In point of fact, its a LOT easier not to know a speed limit or limited parking area when you are somewhere OTHER than a place with which you are familiar.

Hell, I did not know that in the State of Connecticut, one cannot make a left turn on a red light to a one way street. Did you? Guess how the fuck I found that out.

Aside from which, when I used to commute to work, I did not live in the same city or state in which I lived.

So, explain me this then, nobody from out of town gets a parking ticket where you live?

I don't know what the geography is like where you live, but there are at least 20 different jurisdictions within 20 miles of my residence. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you live in the midwest someplace where towns are 100 miles apart and nobody commutes.

> I travel quite a bit. 

So did I, once upon a time.

> There are towns in this country who make their revenue from obscured parking rules and speed signs around bends. In point of fact, its a LOT easier not to know a speed limit or limited parking area when you are somewhere OTHER than a place with which you are familiar. 

Well, duh.

> Hell, I did not know that in the State of Connecticut, one cannot make a left turn on a red light to a one way street. Did you? Guess how the fuck I found that out. 

So you simply assumed Connecticut's state traffic laws were congruent with your own's? Maybe you belong in a business that doesn't require so much interstate travel.

Last edited Thu Apr 23, 2015, 07:37 PM - Edit history (1)

When you pull into a parking space, don't you wonder whether it's legal to do so? Or do you just assume that parking laws are uniform everywhere?

When in Rome, as the saying goes...

Due to a medical emergency in an office I was visiting, a meeting was delayed,and I was late returning to a parking meter in a city where I do not live.

I guess I should have first asked whether one of the people in that office had epilepsy before what was supposed to be a two hour visit, but, hey, silly me.

So your great idea is that I was supposed to provide copies of my income tax forms instead of just mailing in a payment. Is that it?

Please continue. I'd be happy to hear further of how your personal circumstances exempt you from local ordinances.

Near as I can tell at this point, you're upset about a parking ticket, although, truth be told, that's not really the point of this thread.

No, I don't believe I am "exempt" from anything. Yes, I paid the ticket by mailing in the payment in the included envelope.

I understand that you have never had a traffic ticket of any kind, that you never leave your local area, and that you believe that someone who has had something like four or five tickets for parking and minor infractions in various jurisdictions over the course of some 38 years of driving, is a one man national crime wave. Oh yes, an international terrorist if you count the warning I got for having an expired tollway pass on a rental car in Austria.

The notion of giving Sheriff Billy Bob and his cousin Judge Joe Bob or, say, Joe Arpaio, access to financial information of everyone they pull over for a broken turn signal, is facially stupid and ripe for abuse.

But, sure, there are people who trust the police and small town courts with expanded power and more reasons to snoop into people's lives, and I'm sure there's s badge somewhere that needs you to polish it.

But you have yet to address the point of this thread.

"Sheriff Billy Bob" and "Judge Joe Bob" aside, of course, if that's how you choose to interpret the conversation.

FTR, I don't.

could be determined on the value of the vehicle?

Not sure that I'm actualy for it or not.

But I can tell you that here where I live, the ones that tend to notice that run red lights, tailgate, weave, speed through school zones, fail to stop at stop signs are those in "elite" cars, contractors and moms in minivans, teens, assholes, and those driving pieces of shit cars. I think that leaves Ford Focus, drivers as the only ones that shouldn't get a ticket.

nt

or do that are necessity's of living a life. IMO

read what I typed again

Am I going to have to provide my net worth to Walmart every time I want to buy a pair of socks?

Should they scale based on remaining life expectancy?

The lesson from the ticket.

.... but they should pay more TAXES.

The budgets shouldn't be supported by fines.

And who gets out of tickets more than cops Friends ? people who have money .

It ought to sting a little.

going to traffic school to correct bad driving habits, not turn tired people trying to commute into criminals.

Raise taxes on the rich instead. Profiling would be fought in the courts and won. I'm rich, so the cop pulled me over rather than....

Raising their taxes in the long run is the fair thing to do. That way, they could lessen traffic fines for everyone and go back to the 8 hour traffic school to pay for the ticket. Just pay for the class, save your insurance rates, and spend 8 hours with strangers and watch gory videos.

If the rich paid more for tickets, it wouldn't lower our fines and fees.

Not an either/or argument, although I agree that demanding that the rich pay their fair share in taxes should take priority.

If you want the rich to pay their fair share, tax their assets, which seldom ever are.

A multiplier ought to be determined by both annual income and personal wealth.

A fast food worker might pay fifty dollars, the CEO of the fast food place might pay $50,000.

If he keeps driving, he'll go to jail.

Just because he can afford a ticket more than some, doesn't make it fair to charge him more.

For instance once you hve qualified for food stamps, that serves as qualification for other services such as student loan deferment and discount phones.

This concept can be extended up couple tiers rhrough the middle class - people can apply to be in a service tier at the Federal level and then any county can refer to that to assign the ticket amount. Participation could be voluntary, but it might be challenged by people who see it as the State trading a benefit for invasion of their financial privacy as opposed to provision of a benefit.

This system would also expand government with nice white collar jobs processing applications and regular tier checks. Also, perhaps more services could be attached to make it all about "public services" for everyone instead of "social services" that only the poor get.

A $100 fine for a poor person may mean that he/she gets evicted from their apartment.

A $100 fine for a rich person means he/she may have to sigh over the cost of lunch.

$250 to a minimum wage worker versus a CEO?

Hell yes there should be a sliding scale.

It would be unconstitutional as all hell for starters.

pay a few extra hundred.

$400. I got help from family and friends but I don't what kind of rabbit hole it would have sent me down if I couldn't pay it. It really shoudn't have cost me more than $100 and would have back in the day when justice wasn't about making money for the local treasury.

I thought the $150 figure was a lowball amount probably imported from bicyclist ticketing. It is really hard for most folks to find that amount of extra expense in the month, even $150. I believe our leaders all know this, it's part of making our lives miserable, as when our lives are miserable from regressive fees, then wealth really matters in regards to pursuing happiness.

They should pay way more in taxes.

Tax the rich. Feed the poor.

the same way.

They've probably already paid a gas-guzzler tax, and the mileage of their exotic getting 10 mpg is what it is. Besides, the more you bust 'em for $500 and they don't care???

Besides if we're going to punish criminal activity based on income, why start here? If I have to say anything else, you missed it.