Oz is a quack.

A particularly greedy one, along the lines of Andrew Wakefield.

The greed of the doctors pushing rx's after taking bribes from pharmaceutical companies never gets a mention from you.

about anyone practicing ANY holistic form of medicine and yet never go after doctors and pharmaceuticals?

Please. It's an obsession with some.

Someone has an obsession problem.

Pharmaceuticals Bribe Doctors To Sell Drugs. Drugs W/Serious Side Effects

Drugs with side effects generally way more serious than a placebo. Side effects like SUICIDE. And the targets were children in some cases.

GlaxoSmithKline fined $3bn after bribing doctors to increase drugs sales

The pharmaceutical group GlaxoSmithKline has been fined $3bn (£1.9bn) after admitting bribing doctors and encouraging the prescription of unsuitable antidepressants to children. Glaxo is also expected to admit failing to report safety problems with the diabetes drug Avandia in a district court in Boston on Thursday.

The company encouraged sales reps in the US to mis-sell three drugs to doctors and lavished hospitality and kickbacks on those who agreed to write extra prescriptions, including trips to resorts in Bermuda, Jamaica and California.
snip

Psychiatrists and their partners were flown to five-star hotels, on all-expenses-paid trips where speakers, paid up to $2,500 to attend, gave presentations on the drugs. They could enjoy diving, golf, fishing and other extra activities arranged by the company.

GSK also paid for articles on its drugs to appear in medical journals and "independent" doctors were hired by the company to promote the treatments, according to court documents.
snip

The prosecution said the company paid $275,000 to Dr Drew Pinsky, who hosted a popular radio show, to promote the drug on his programme, in particular for unapproved uses – GSK claimed it could treat weight gain, sexual dysfunction, ADHD and bulimia.
snip

Despite the large fine, $3bn is far less than the profits made from the drugs. Avandia has made $10.4bn in sales, Paxil took $11.6bn, and Wellbutrin sales were $5.9bn during the years covered by the settlement, according to IMS Health, a data group that consults for drug makers.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/03/glaxosmithkline-fined-bribing-doctors-pharmaceuticals

You got any other obvious tu quoque fallacies to offer?

Posting the same ones over and over it's kinda getting banal.

I worked at this hospital and knew many of the doctors well, and saw the head of a department practically push the drug salesperson out of the office. He said that many say the drugs they were pushing for him to "push" on his patients were perfect when he already knew about the side effects.

Some hospitals contract to only prescribe one brand from one particular company, even though another brand might be more effective for certain individual patients.

or thalidomide taking care of morning sickness in pregnant women.

Even if it was (and it ain't), the very best you'd have is still tu quoque gibberish.

At least not until decades later, in 1998. It's now used under very tight controls for treatment of leprosy and multiple myeloma.

It *was* approved in other countries and some women in the US got it in clinical trials which led to tightening up the rules for that process.

But it wasn't nearly the problem here that it was in other industrialized nations, because it was never approved for sale for that use/in that population in the US. THE SYSTEM HERE WORKED. You're citing an example that demonstrates the polar opposite of your point, and thirty seconds of googling to educate yourself first would have cleared up your misunderstanding of that sad historical episode.

Hint: if you want to cite a moldy old example of women in the US and their babies being endangered by an unsafe drug, what you're looking for is DES. But the side effects weren't so visually striking, so it's less effective as a lazy gotcha in spite of being an actual example of what you're claiming. YOU'RE WELCOME.

Shame on them for killing those people.

What did he get wrong?

John Oliver got the seven models part wrong for sure. And for my segment he did not recommend any holistic drugs.

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 03:49 AM - Edit history (1)

The shit that Oz pushes is unregulated for either safety or efficacy, thanks to DSHEA.

Pharmaceuticals are highly regulated for both efficacy and safety by the FDA. But when one takes any medicine, regulated or otherwise, there is never ever zero risk. There are always risks with any medical intervention. Always.

The extent to which Oz pushes alternative medicine is the extent to which he is a QUACK because there is no alternative or complimentary medicine, there is only medicine based on science. And yes, that's imperfect, too. But at least science is correctable because it is at least tested. And the extent to which the shit that Oz promotes has also been tested is found wanting.

Come on...

Homeopathy?
Reiki? (His wife is actually a reiki practitioner, whatever that fucking means.)
Magic weight loss cures?
Etc.

When a doctor promotes these things, he is no longer practicing medicine. That would be appropriately termed quackery. And he does it for lots and lots of money. And by the way, he takes money from supplement manufacturers. I guess one could call that BigAltMed, which makes billions from the gullible public naive enough to not realize that their nostrums don't do anything, at least nothing good.

So get off your high horse about bribes from Pharma.

The pajamas are my favorite.

Pajamas that can pull toxins from your body, increase oxygen to your tissues, and neutralize stress.

Pajamas that can exert a strong antioxidant activity, absorb harmful free radicals, repair cells, strengthen the immune system, sharpen mental functions, reduce the occurrence of backache, and increase resistance to illness.

MAGIC pajamas.

Seriously. How could you forget magic pajamas!?!

Otherwise, spot on.

Where can I get them?

That is great!!

I haven't been to Barrett's site in a while. Shame on me.

You have posted the perfect response to Oz supporters.



My best to you.

I'm a big fan of your work too.



Dr. Barrett is a lightning rod for woo fans, though. Ooooo, they don't like him at all.

Who never posts enough Quackcast podcasts these days. But one can still read him at the Science-Based Medicine Blog. He never minces words.

Of course, there's also the SGU hosted by the physician who coined science-based medicine, Steve Novella. (I just don't know how that guy does everything he does.)

Thank you for the compliment.
Much appreciated.

My best.

I linked to Science-Based Medicine in several other threads, this was the last post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6572907

I love the last bit:

The BigPharma companies have long since gotten into it. Why go through safety and efficacy trials when one can sell stuff with neither?

No, I'm not going to give my horse homeopathic remedies, wtf? He can't tell me if it's not working and if I'm clueless enough I can convince myself that he's feeling better when he's getting worse. I know they're useless but many people don't.

And placebos don't work on animals.

Who does that?

I posted a summary down thread.

My regards.

I could see the logic behind inventing high performance lingerie, but pajamas?

My birthday suit.

"The OZ is in the middle and the DR is in small font at the top" Wait...WHUT!? His speaking up against not labeling foods, well a clock has to be right twice a day.

I'll just call it a Rand Paul moment for him, still how does he find time to head a department and do all these talk shows?

why every show features the Next Big Thing that Will Bust Belly Fat.

If the last week's Big Thing worked, we wouldn't need the new stuff...now would we?

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 04:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Purely coincidental, no doubt.

I've posted a bit up thread. But this is my summary.

DSHEA, the Dietary and Supplement Health and Safety Act. (In retrospect, the use of "safety" in this context was merely metaphorical... Or something else) should be repealed out right.

Then, there's the other branch of the federal government which sprung from that -- Oh dear! -- the NCCAM, National Center for Complimentary and Alternative Medicine whose apparent charter is to study the efficacy of alternative (and apparently complimentary) medical modalities. But here's the thing. The NCCAM has spent millions of dollars studying all sorts of alternative (and -- cough -- complimentary) modalities. What are their results? Not one was found effective. That's right. Not one. But what were there recommendations? (Now get this.) "More studies are needed!" Apparently they did not get it right the first few times, and by the way, the quack lobby is pressing us hard to not say that BTW, homeopathy is useless, and acupuncture doesn't work, and reiki is rubbish magic medicine. When a negative study funded by the NCCAM is produced, they say "more study is needed" but not "this shit is utter quackery!"

I support the repeal of DSHEA, the elimination of NCCAM, and stronger regulations on drug testing, including mandatory reporting of results of all human efficacy and safety trials. But most of all, the quackery has to stop.

Watch the video. John Oliver breaks things down very well. Plus you get to see Steve Buscemi tap dancing at the end. And yup! He really can do it.

That was funny!

There are millions and millions of people just like him doubling down on their ignorance and lack of reason.

It is pathetic and sad.

Please, explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.

It is sad and pathetic and honestly it makes me question Oliver's intelligence.

Obviously Oliver isn't eating well and exercising. Good luck with that dude.

...people are required to give all of his fraud and bullshit a pass, just to make sure they don't mess up that good part?

Dr. Oz is a promoter of good diet and exercise. Do the math.

It is pathetic and obvious propaganda.

You're referring to the Dr. Oz brand, yes?

Even if he does promote "good diet and exercise," so the fuck what? That's the very least that a 1st-year medical student should do. He hardly deserves praise for meeting the absolute bare minimum standard of the medical profession.

He doesn't distinguish himself by promoting "good diet and exercise." He distinguishes himself by hawking pseudoscience and profitable bullshit, and millions like you are happy to come to the defense of his bullshit feelgood pseudoscience.


When a pharmaceutical company makes dubious claims about its products, people like you condemn that company as an evil machine; when Dr. Oz makes dubious claims about his products, people like you defend him tooth and nail like your chakras depend upon it.

...without so much negative baggage attached. He deserves to be completely trashed for the crap he peddles.

His bullshit is clearly bullshit looking at it coming straight out of his mouth. No "pathetic and obvious propaganda" is necessary to expose his quackery. He reveals himself for what he is quite effectively on his own.

But feel free to continue throwing out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub, the bathroom, the plumbing, and the entire house, just like Oliver did... Because of ignorance. Big pharma is very happy you are doing their work for them.

...criticizing Oz equates to doing the work of Big Pharma.

The "baby" will do fine, and has plenty of clean places to bathe without the dirty bath water that is Dr. Oz.

And what exactly is John Oliver "ignorant" of? Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Not going along with your frankly bizarre opinion that Oz is some vital champion of good diet and exercise is not an indication of a lack of knowledge.

If you had watched the whole clip-

You would see he could do just as good with a puppy, some hot chicks, Steve Buscemi and a fucking marching band

It's not about diet and excercise.
Try again.

It's the height of irony to defend a quack by calling his critics ignorant and commenting on their lack of reason.

Because it's his oblivious fans who are pathetic and sad.

and why is he maligning the good liberal TV doctor?

Oliver is obviously just another tool for Monsatan.

Sid

How could good diet and exercise possibly be a good thing?

Better put a stop to that QUICK!!!!11

`

But I'm the ignorant one.



Sid

Here's a very in-depth look into his history and the controversy that has followed him for most of his career: http://www.vox.com/2015/4/16/8412427/dr-oz-health-claims

about unregulated and untested supplements and promoting nonsense treatments.

If it were pharmaceutical companies in Oz's place, you'd be calling for blood.

That's now the standard by which we judge correctness, after all.

but Oliver's approach to humor is ham fisted and sophomoric. He reminds me of DU's smarter-than-thou shouters. You know, the aggressive dudes that are empowered by reading Cracked and Reason.

Oliver's statements won't be nearly as harmful or damaging as the claims made by Oz.

Anything that raises public awareness of Oz's bullshit pseudoscience is worthwhile.

continue to enjoy his shows.

If you're content to endorse his bullshit with your viewership, then that's on you.

leave the bad from anything I hear or view.

That is why it is so dangerous for an MD to push miracle cures, not everyone has medical training and/or critical thinking skills.

Dr. Oz targets gullible people and makes a fortune off of them.

Dr. Oz doesn't give advice or push products that are harmful. And
he always says to seek medical advice. I'm a fan of natural healing
and would trust a holistic doctor before I'd trust the pill pushers who
are the majority of doctors now. I am afraid to go to them and to a
hospital. Bad experiences.

He could tell her the sun is shining at midnight and she would buy it. She loves the guy. SMH

Dr. Oz has recently come out as a big proponent for labeling food as containing GMOs. And look…what starts happening to him.

Many of his colleagues, who are the most vocal about ousting him--have ties to Monsanto and other big corporations.

I smell a rat here. Dr. Oz has been on television for many years. If he's such a quack, where was the outrage one, two or even three years into his television show? He comes out pro-GMO labeling--and suddenly he's being positioned as a whacked-out freak who deserves to lose his job and credentials.

I've had many years of experience in Public Relations and media relations. I know a hit job when I see it.

Just FYI

Also-

He won an award!

The James Randi Educational Foundation has awarded Oz with their Pigasus Award, an award intended "to expose parapsychological, paranormal or psychic frauds that Randi has noted over the previous year."[36] The award consists of a silver flying pig and refers to claiming something so doubtful that it will only happen "when pigs fly". Oz has been given this award on three separate occasions, more than any other recipient:

A mere coincidence!

Same 10 who for anything as long as it is anti-West-

You have a very novel way of showing that.

…is pretty benign and uninteresting, if you ask me.

I'm a stay-at-home mom, and I've watched it maybe ten times in the past few years.

When I've tuned in, I've seen nutritionists talking about the benefits of vitamins, book peddlers hocking
their diet books and Dr Oz trying out different exercises. And yes, he extolls the virtues of everything from pomegranates and almonds to dark chocolate and oatmeal.

I find Dr. Oz kind of boring. What I find intriguing is the concerted attempted at destroying this man, his career and his reputation--with incredible bloodlust.

I think the ferocity with which some care *so much* about little ol' Doctor Oz--is very bizarre. And, I might add, more bizarre than anything Dr. Oz has said.

That's why it feels like a hit job to me--an organized hit job by the corporate overlords at Monsanto and other large companies. Dr. Oz came out for labeling food that contain GMOs. And suddenly--the name callers and the junkyard dogs arrive.

I mean seriously…I don't think Dr. Oz's viewers care half as much about him--as these newfound naysayers who have taken to the Internet--spending so much time trying to convince everyone how awful he is.

I mean, really. Seriously?

This isn't some sort of right wing conspiracy, many doctors have been vocal about the claims he makes on his shows.

Guess that's why you're defending this charlatan, eh?
Cuz you "couldn't give a fuck about Oz"?

It links to another Why Dr. Oz can say anything and keep his medical license.

a credible source, but Oz is. Cuz... LOGIC

Somehow that's important to eating healthy.

Cuz...ratings.

They're two smrat to fall for PR propaganda.

Because Oz is a humanitarian hero and would never think of spinning this issue to save face...

Seriously…It appears that Dr. Oz truly is the victim of a highly organized PR campaign to destroy him.

That site is nothing more than propaganda.

Did you ever notice that this campaign against Dr. Oz consists of so much middle-school name calling and bullying--but you rarely see specific quotes from Dr. Oz? You don't see outlandish quotes from Dr. Oz.

Probably because most of what he spends his time doing on his show--hocking the benefits of vitamins, minerals, healthy fats and exercise--don't really generate a lot of fodder that would justify the vicious destruction of Dr. Oz.

Dr. Oz recently came out for labeling of food that contains GMOs. I think anyone with a couple of functioning neurons can figure out that corporate America decided to go after him.

I'm no big Dr. Oz fan. I'll tell you what I am though--fed up and disgusted with how corporations have become vicious, bloodthirsty, sociopathic entities. They think because they own our politicians, that they can also own public opinion.

Don't fall for this malarkey.

because you didn't read the linked article and you don't know shit about Vox so...

I'm for full and equal rights for LGBT, including same-sex marriage and adoption rights.

I'm fully supportive of a woman's right to choose, and to control her own medical decisions, without the interference of others.

I believe in science-based medicine, instead of medicine based on mythology, superstition and woo.

Does that make you an homophobe, a misogynist, and scientifically illiterate?



Sid

medical license for fraud.

Attacking Oz doesn't convince me of anything.

Nothing about GMOs.
Try again.

Try again.

10 quack treatments Dr. Oz needs to defend
Posted by Dr. Jen Gunter

Dr. Oz promises to come out swinging on Thursday, both against the 10 physicians who wrote a letter to the Dean of Medicine at Columbia and to defend himself against the charges of quakery.

Here are 10 of his recommendations I’d like to see him explain/defend with science (i.e. provide medical evidence above personal experience). Medical textbook or studies (preferable) are required (no case reports or retrospective case series of 10 or fewer patients allowed).

1. Communicating with the dead.

2. Detoxing.

3. What is a toxin and why do so many people have them?

4. Multivitamins (apart from women trying to conceive or pregnant women).

5. Reiki.

6. Homeopathy.

7. Appearances of Joe Merola on the Dr. Oz show when frequently Oz doesn’t directly endorse his claims. Pro-tip: being a maverick in medicine means questioning poorly done studies and ill-conceived national guidelines or discovering something new and proving it with science, not questioning the laws of physics and ignoring medical evidence in favor of expensive “natural” products.

8. HepasilDTX.

9. Vitamin D to prevent colds/cancer/reverse aging.

10. Every single weight loss “miracle” mentioned on the show. OK that’s too many, let’s start with these 10.

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/10-quack-treatments-dr-oz-needs-to-defend/

No matter how much you want it to be.

Simple, no?