And mobs are not a good thing. Innocent people often get hurt.

Mob of cops kicking a black kid... Pretty violent shit eh?

speaking generally, mobs are bad news and innocent people frequently get swept up in mob violence and hurt.

What happens to a dream deferred?

and the entire country is burned TO THE GROUND the first time a white guy is lynched for being white.

If the most that happens is what we are seeing, while bad and I hate it and it is wrong and all that, we are lucky.

What's your point?

was talking out his or her ass in claiming that the country would be burned to the ground the first time a white person was lynched for being white.

But what do you think would happen if a white person were to be lynched?

Looked like a lynching to me. He's very lucky he wasn't killed.

But, it was not a lynching on either one.



Thank goodness!

n/t

it's there now. Lynching - is when they are hung by the neck until they are dead.

By that criterion, Emmett Till wasn't lynched. Neither was James Byrd.

lynch
lin(t)SH/
verb
gerund or present participle: lynching; noun: lynching
(of a mob) kill (someone), especially by hanging, for an alleged offense with or without a legal trial.
synonyms: execute illegally, hang, kill; informalstring up
"he was lynched by the mob"

and settle the situation?

Citizens throw rocks just hoping a helping hand will notice. The state uses live rounds just hoping the citizens shut up about the problem.

Such acts do more hard than good to the community.

People who work there are now out of work for a while and you know what?

That's fucked up.

I'll bet the people here who think it's some outstanding show of strength or sending some other god damned productive message don't live in neighborhoods like that or have jobs like those.

The OP message ignores the reality of the thing.

Protests should always be directed at the policy or place or persons that need to change, not the local retail outlet.

They're doing it wrong.

That strip of Baltimore was a disaster zone, total poverty and bleakness, 10 years ago. The city and business began building it up and it had reached a point where you could actually see the clouds parting and the sun coming out.

Now it's gone. CVS is not coming back. Target, if it got hit (and I heard that it had) is not coming back. The area has been destroyed. This was not a goddam protest. I know, NYC_SKP, you understand the situation. It wasn't a protest but a lot of people here foolishly -- yes, and stupidly -- want to characterize it as such. Hundreds of people are now out of work, many of them permanently because there isn't any place else for them to go. People who actually live in the neighborhood, people who were actually at the funeral, have been crushed by this b.s., totally and irredeemably. So for all those at D.U. who want to classify this looters's riot as some sort of political statement, come on down to B'more with your sanctimony and take a look around at the way the looters showed their respect for a true victim of police violence.

...to express an opinion that this was somehow righteous and mighty.

No, it wasn't.

Thank you.

Sorry, my friend, but I disagree

...I'm not suggesting by any means that the people were unjustified in expressing their rage, not at all.

I am suggesting that this particular type of act has more negative repercussions than any good.

The negatives are lasting: the businesses may not return, there are fewer places to shop, fewer jobs, property values drop.

Possibly worst of all, it perpetuates the myth that these poor folks, victims of the system, somehow caused this and that they deserved it.

An organizer would have helped them channel their energy and righteous anger into an organized protest, gotten plenty of media, pro-bono lawyers, GOTV efforts, etc.

That this happened at all is an indication that they need to organize. I maintain that while they were right to be angry, the destruction of stores does more harm than good.

I'd be happy to listen to any explanation of how this was a helpful thing toward righting the wrongs against that community.

Where two people were fired, even after the DoJ found systematic racism and unjust practices abound?

It isn't working

Dear marym625,

I left for a walk after my last reply to you feeling bad, that maybe I hadn't understood you or that I didn't make myself clear.

The tragedy with the destructive behaviors is that they end up destroying what little exists in the community that DOES work, that doesn't hurt them.

Months from now everyone will have forgotten this but the streets will still be ruined. The citizens brought down their own resources, they hurt their own community.

I didn't say anything about Ferguson but I'll say it now: I don't think that whoever came in to organize made much difference, organizing has to come from within, through school or church or other groups.

Such a body of residents can make a difference.

Now what I think would have been far better: If a CVS or other store must be damaged so that it gets media attention, why not do it in the neighborhoods where the asshole cops live?

Now I'm not really serious, but trying to make a point: bring it to the haters, bring something to them and keep your own neighborhood clean and intact.

Do you see what I'm saying?

And first, foremost and most importantly, I am sorry I upset you. Never my intention.

I have a post going where I am answering what you are saying in a bunch of replies. I would like you to look at it so you can see better where I am coming from.

The leaders in Ferguson were from Ferguson. Strong willed, intelligent kids that preached nonviolence. They met with leaders, they attended the meetings every week. They registered people to vote and they voted.

And nothing changed.

When you have 30% unemployment, pretty much across the country, for black men, for decades. When peaceful protest changes nothing, when police kill young black men every 28 hours, with impunity, and instead of arrest an "investigation" with a paid vacation and no apology. No arrest. No indictment. What is left to do? .

Taking a bigger world view here, 10,000 feet up looking at all the shit that's going on.

The powerful few benefit from "identity politics" where groups focus so intently on their groups problems that they rarely come together.

"Ferguson? Yeah sure, but I want my health plan deductible to go down!" or something.

And, check this out, the worse it gets for, in this case, blacks and the medically infirm, the MORE FOCUSED they become, and kind of blind to the others' concerns.

BUT, we're all basically in the same war but with different battles: state and federal governments are too corrupt to do anything about Ferguson, or to fight the insurance industry on our behalf.

What I'd like to see, and I think it can be done, is for EVERYONE to get together and take this to the damn people who need to answer for it.

The sick, the unemployed, victims of bank foreclosures and police brutality, all together.

This can be an all-city thing or it can be at the state capitals or, dare I say, Washington DC.

United we stand, Mary.

And I stand with you and with Freddie and with Michael.

We won't shut up, and we won't sit down.

going to post about CVS.

From what I recall most of the protests resulted in no damage or riots.

Even on SI. The economics are different. So is the culture. Not "better," but different.

Conservatives value property rights.

When cops act like their job is to protect property and shoot humans (At least, the ones they think of as "less than&quot than the attack on property fits.

It reminds the police that their power is an illusion.

However, i understand that there is such a thing as counterviolence. Not that looting a CVS store represents that, but really, there are points where your options are literally fighting back or giving up. and if giving up is an option, why didyou bother in the first palce?

there would have been no violence in the street. Cause and effect. If the police don't do that, this will not happen. If they don't kill young people maliciously, there will be no reason for street violence as a reaction.

The truth is far more complex.

Both CNN and MSNBC are playing this meme, that black rioting
and looting is bad and makes Baltimore look bad.

Well, I think that the targeting of African Americans for killing
and the criminal justice system is far worse.

All this crap putting out false notions that everything would be
OK if the Black youth would just take advantage of the programs
and opportunities out there to help them, doesn't help.

We are not a nation of opportunity for minority or poor youths
any more. Those jobs are mostly gone, as are the programs.

We are a police state staffed with very racist and power-mongering
cops who are buttressed by an in-bred system designed to protect
them. This is the only way that harmful economic policies and practices
can be sustained.

This is the message from Baltimore because actions speak louder than words.

I'm a lifelong Democrat. Martin Luther King never advocated rock throwing. And he was fighting for civil rights. I'm as mad at police violence as anyone else, but looting a CVS does not show your outrage. This was few hundred thugs and curious teenagers spoiling for a fight...... and giving fuel to the lingering racists among us.

How about fighting for Civil rights?

I can certainly understand the rage behind it.

Almost 50 years after Dr. Kings death PEOPLE are still fighting for civil (read: BASIC HUMAN) rights.

Asking politely for equality has not worked ... I am not sure what the powers that be (or people expressing your view point) expect?

Do you really expect PEOPLE to sit back quietly and politely ask for equal rights and equal treatment?

I think looting and "rioting" are self defeating but I understand the desperation, the rage

BTW, I am from Metro Detroit ... sadly, "we" do this sh*t when one of our sports teams wins a title ... that, I can't understand the motivation behind

Of course it's a really bad idea to trash your own neighborhood. And yes, it is far better to protest peacefully.

But rather than demonize these kids, or allow this to feed existing racism, we should try to understand the hellish circumstances that give rise to this rage, and have a little compassion.

I cant possibly be, I have NEVER been pulled over for being white.

No member of my family has been beaten up or shot by policy for being white, and there have been run ins with the law, thank god we are white.

No, I am mad as hell but I cant IMAGINE having to look over my shoulder EVERY GOD DAMN TIME I walk out the door and walk down the street and drive my car and go into a store to buy a shirt.

CANT IMAGINE

I have no idea who you are, you may be a minority and know more about this "feeling" than I do...

Nothing is working.

How long were non-violent protests held over Freddie Gray--3 days?

Change is a long term project.

Americans, by and large, don't care about local government. Turnout is extraordinarily poor for local elections. Yet, it is the local government, though police and schools, which affect people the most. Are the police in your town/city escalating violence and reacting inappropriately? Organize the citizens in the community and get behind candidates for local public office who will clean up the police. If they fail to do so, vote the bastards out and try again.

Destroying your own community through more violence doesn't accomplish anything constructive. It doesn't rally anyone to support your cause.

the importance of local governments as simply filling in pot holes. Local governments play a huge role in people's lives.

predictable in outcome.

and a bunch of rural non-militarized colonists. Oh wait...the Brits lost that one.

...or the US Army which has had no end of problems with only semi-organized insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pretty much a stalemate of the Zeno's dichotomy variety; we can win forever but never gain ground in defeating the insurgency.

one major logistical challenge presented to the occupiers in the cases you cited that is absent in the case of China-Tibet.

I majored in Political Theory.

I was a National Geographic Society National Geography Bee semifinalist when I was 12 however.

I'm well aware that Tibet is next to China...I'm also aware that there is a vast wasteland largely devoid of people and civilization (including but not limited to the Gobi Desert) between most of populated China and the Tibetan region. It may as well be halfway around the world for the lack of ease with which they'd defend it.

1.) Gandhi lived in the late 18th-century? That would be the 1700s.

2.) The myth of Gandhi as a pacifist is just that...a myth. Gandhi conceded the primary reason he embraced pacifism was for lack of guns or forces to wield them; it's intrinsic to the 4th indictment of the British in the Purna Swaraj* (The 1930 Indian Declaration of Independence which the Indian National Congress led by Nehru and Gandhi ratified). It goes on only to reject violence because they're not capable of inflicting violence so even his non-violence was strident and his rhetoric aggressive. In the later civil war against Pakistan he supported the use of force.

*-Spiritually, compulsory disarmament has made us unmanly, and the presence of an alien army of occupation, employed with deadly effect to crush in us the spirit of resistance, has made us think that we cannot look after ourselves or put up a defense against foreign aggression, or even defend our homes and families from the attacks of thieves, robbers and miscreants.

a job. Wonder if CVS will reopen in the same area.

look where that got minority communities.

property with someone legitimately protesting. Rioting is one thing, but laughing at your good fortune over getting away with a trash bag full of beer and potato chips is another thing altogether.

I have a hard time dumping the Kings tea overboard. Kind of sounds like that.

I have no intention of arguing with you other than to say the people who dumped the king's tea did so under penalty of death should they have been caught.

I don't think many of the people in Boston that day did what they did with smiles and laughter like the people I'm seeing run out of stores with stolen goods.

Note the raised hats in the painting. Looks like a happy occasion.

Happy Happy Joy Joy.

were becoming a symbol of freedom by The Sons of Liberty.

There is nothing new under the sun.

At least they have better coverage and can absorb it easier.

it may even have a gas station really close to make it easier for you

Thanks goodness the 7-11 owner's spine wasn't partially severed. That would be bad.

the burned buildings, looted stores, fires etc etc etc etc ......... that un-severed that mans spine didn't it ?

All for the greater good right ? The people who have had their homes, and business destroyed ? They need to get over it right ?
The innocent people FROM THIER OWN NEIGHBOORHOOD,....... suffering BECAUSE of the rioting "young children" ............... point made.

In protest of unfair, brutal and violent treatment by the cops,................. burn down local business, .... attack the fire department, I loved that. FUCKING FIREMEN, them and their red trucks. Loot the CVS and liquor stores, I wonder if Occupy is taking notes ?

Good luck Baltimore.

It's frustrating to the point of tears, but on the other hand, I don't get the impression TPTB are doing anything to mitigate the anger that to me is completely valid.

Civilian oversight of ALL police forces isn't the only answer but it should be the FIRST action. I'd also systematically dismiss all LEOs with credible allegations of undue force on their records, and make it illegal for a jurisdiction to hire a LEO who's been fired from another jurisdiction. Something HAS to be done to at the very least show the public local governments are acting in the best interests of their citizens.

I'll say the same thing to you that I did to trumad: I truly believe that Mr. Gray was murdered, and on purpose. I understand the anger. This isn't the way to cause change though; it's a way to harden the hearts of the people the "protesters" are supposedly appealing to.

especially upset by the riots.

I've heard his name maybe three times since I got home from work and turned on the TV. I heard about this on the radio while I was working and didn't hear his name AT ALL.

fire to CVS looks to the world.

then we can worry about "how it looks to the world".

I care for.

Those here that pretend rioting and looting is pointless, ignore history or are just ignorant. People riot because they reach a point of feeling totally helpless and just say FUCK IT.

That is when civilization breaks down do to faulty leadership and law enforcement.

Like businesses deciding to get out of town. That's the change Baltimore is going to get. Then the community will complain about lack of jobs and how there's no good places to shop at.

they complained about lack of jobs long before the riot. Their lives will not improve because of the riots. But, I doubt if things can get much worse.

echoing the language of those times right now. We might as well be watching reruns.

They just looted a gun store and set fire to a museum!!!

[url]

Please let us know when they do because I want to see if fucking up your things brings change.

to be NIMBY's.

In this case, our enemy is ourselves. We have to revolutionize the way we think of black people. Not as threats, but people who deserve rights and safety. We are still not there.

Based on history, I'd say civil disobedience would help to spark the revolution more than rioting. So far as I can tell, civil disobedience is the most effective tactic based on historical effectiveness.

Violence will make people feel good temporarily. Hey, at least we did something. It will be for nothing

when the only power people have is the power to destroy things, and you put their back up against the wall, they quite rightly forget about propriety. they use the only power they have.
it has ever been thus. it will always be thus.

do i feel bad about a giant company having their beer cooler cleaned out? no, no i dont. i feel bad for the families whose young men have been killed in cold blood. by the THOUSANDS.