us to raise hands if we want to be saved. I didn't raise my hand.

cuz the preacher wants more in the collection plate.

I just think it's so wrong to do that to the grieving family. Good for you for rejecting that BS trick.

but not what the children or the family needed, IMO.

That was my take on the fire and brimstone "repent" crap at My Dad's.

"Singin B for the beast at the endin' of the woods.... Well it eat all the children that would not be good"

Scary!

Clergy usually don't do funerals gratis; they do it for money and at the family's request. So I can't get too worked up about it.

We don't hire any such people in my family.

and comfort one another. People get up and tell stories about the person so that we can all share our memories.

I would never say anything to this family, as perhaps that IS what they wanted. But it could have been a lovely remembrance of her rather than one guy sloppily stumbling over her obituary and then spending the rest of the time talking about himself and how he's is so right about it all.

It was a disgusting, egotistical display, but I guess some people like their religion that way, as you say.

They don't? I know that for my grandfather (Methodist minister) it was considered part of his job, as well as going to a hospital at 3 in the morning if a family needed him. Of course, he wasn't a screamer. He died in 86 and I haven't set foot it a church since, som maybe things have changed.

I think the charge for the minister at my father's funeral was $300. He did a nice eulogy and prepared beforehand by talking to members of the family to collect our stories about Dad.

But he only tried to visit at the hospital once and missed the family when he stopped by. Considering the amount of money my father and his parents had donated to that church over the 90 years they were all members, I thought he could have tried harder.

things have changed. I know my grandfather never got fees for this.

And the funeral home made sure the minister got a fee - in fact Mom actually paid them and they paid the minister.

While we liked the service, I don't think Mom was real impressed with having to pay the man. As I said, Dad's family had been members of that church for 90 years and over those years donated tens of thousands of dollars. Since Dad's death, Mom has reduced the annual donation by a significant amount. And neither the minister nor any member of the congregation have visited Mom since the funeral. You'd think they would stop by to check on an elderly widow sometime!

Mom came from a long line of ministers so she knows how the system used to work. Somehow I don't think she was impressed with how things have gone.

to make sure you're at the right funeral.

not sure what that means, but as long as no one is screaming and spitting at sad people, sounds okay by me!

upon a pedestal, that even those closest to him/her don't recognize him/her anymore... if they were honest with themselves.

I though perhaps he meant he went to very large funerals.

This woman WAS a saint, a beautiful, kind, salt-of-the-earth person who raised her family very well. She deserved more kind words spoken, I thought, but again, not my family.

I was there to comfort my neighbors, to "love them as myself", not to offer any opinions, so I said nothing.

I still remember one where the only thing that kept me from snorting out loud in derision was the presence of the deceased's father. Even the dead guy's sister had a WTF look on her face.

I just figured it's exactly the funeral she would have wanted.

But all of her grandkids probably would have a better opinion of preachers if he had mentioned their loved one a bit more rather than talking about himself.

He could have shown compassion and comfort to those kids, and set a 'Christ-like" example, instead of going off like a red-faced, adrenaline junky on crack.

Had to make fun of him to relax the young ones fears brought on by an obvious nut....

Glad I'm not the only one!

Now I have to go to work for a bit. Will check back later.

I went to one that was a catholic mass, it was nothing like you described.

all of the other funerals I have been too have been either a small service at the funeral home or prayers at the cemetery.

What denomination was this service?

but not one I would ever follow.

Setting the children's teeth on edge at their grandmother's funeral just seems so cruel and un-Christ-like.

Baptists will go for the altar call ("repent and come to JESUS!!!!&quot at the drop of a hat. Any hat.

My exact thought when I first read the OP, had to be a Baptist, they never miss an opportunity with a captive audience.

with no mention of the deceased aside from hinting at the possibility that the deceased barely made it into Purgatory rather than Hell.

Some priests will permit a eulogy by a family member, but some dioceses forbid the practice.

Funeral vestments now are white, some want to bring back the black vestments from 50 years ago.

Last edited Tue May 5, 2015, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)

It was for a wonderful old lady who'd been a well-known singer and voice coach in the area for many years. It was in a Ukrainian Orthodox church, and it was a mostly sung service in Ukrainian. I didn't really know what was going on but it was clearly not a hellfire type service. It was quite lovely and peaceful. I can't understand why anyone would either want or perform a service that would make the family feel even worse than they already do.

But then, I don't get much of anything that fundie ilk of "Christians" does.

That's what religion is for - a source of comfort when you grieve.

I, too, can't understand the desire to exploit such a somber time by making the family feel even worse anxiety. There has to be something wrong with a person or a congregation that twists the knife in when people are grieving.

Some of my Christian and non-Christian friends have let me vent about it and they all agree. It was just plain mean to our way of thinking.

But maybe some people find comfort in watching a grown man brag about himself as he frothed at the mouth.

Never in my life.

Our family is not religious, but all us kids, and many other relatives wanted a chance to memorialize him. His wife was a very devout lady and we had no objections when she said she wanted to have her own minister speak. We were shocked by the man's vitriol since he'd never even met our dad, and everyone sat there uncomfortably while he made his terrible accusations and dire predictions.

My brothers started elbowing me and whispering at me to do something as I was the oldest and they thought it was my place to end his fire and brimstone harangue because dad would have hated it too. So I just stood up and walked straight to the podium which made him pause long enough for me to quickly shake his hand, give him his notes and loudly thank him for coming. As everyone applauded in relief, I slipped in right in front of him and my brother hurried up to escort him out as I began my eulogy.

The woman died at 24 of a brain tumor, the preacher assured the assembled that jay-sus would forgive her for having lived in sin. I thought her boyfriend was going to walk up and slug the guy.

She left the church when she was a teenager, the rest of her family stuck with it though. I am sure she would have rather her body been tossed in a trash compactor than what took place in her memory.

My own family would never allow such a "show" for the preacher's ego.

Who the fuck is he to judge anyone?

I was raised in a tradition of funerals where there was prayer, but it was about praying for the loved one to pass on well, and for the family to be comforted. It was never a recruitment drive for some local yokel ego who thinks he's supposed to be some hero for Jesus when people are in sorrow.

Hopefully, in the case of your friend, the young woman's spirit was around to laugh at such an awful man.

Because the preacher was pretty determined to try to convert those of us not in the congregation. But it was bearable, and as for the treatment of the deceased and his family, it couldn't have been warmer. There was a lovely looped video of photos of the deceased and his loved ones, great tributes from his wife (my classmate)and family, much singing and bible reading, and all in all probably just the funeral the deceased would have wanted. So I could put up with a little discomfort at the preachiness, since everyone meant well.

No. Ignored the deceased for 45 minutes of "energetic" exhortations to be saved, and then, as an afterthought, mentioned the two people whose service I was attending...an 8 yo and his mom? Yes.

Maybe there are some denominations where the preachers are too lazy to bother with the deceased, but just deliver the same canned sermon about being "saved" at every one.

Maybe they have to get vehement in order to convince themselves they're not really just lazy, uncaring assholes?

That poor woman and child. Ugh.

It was hard enough, having lost them to a drunk driver who crossed a line and took them out. That we couldn't just remember them, honor, them, that we were actually told not to, that they were "happy now," and our time was spent being bullied in an effort to corral our souls, that their death was a tool to do so...I've never forgotten nor forgiven. That was 12 years ago.

Part of the reason for a funeral is to find some closure and to remember the person who has passed. Another part is to be comforted by friends and family, who gather to honor the deceased and support the grieving in their greatest hour of need.

These Bully Sermonators steal that from the grieving loved ones. They just crush all of the spirit out of the moment with their abusive, self-absorbed, vitriolic agendas.

Sickening, and it is unforgettable when you see it in person.

Any gathering is an opportunity to save some souls. The really extreme Baptists will have alter calls at weddings...which is really odd.

I don't know who hired the preacher or where he came from (she had long lived in another state so it was no one who knew her). He started off with a standard deal, with the biographical info he'd been given (got a few facts wrong but nothing anyone worried about), then all the sudden started getting excited and talking about the rapture and how one day soon all the corpses would rise from the grave and the fire and the pain for the wicked and the like. Then, I kid you not, he started speaking in tongues! I found it hilarious but my stoic old Presbyterian relatives were not amused. That was a trip.

because I would have been laughing too hard.

If these bully, rage-filled, bulging-eyed preachers need converts so badly they'll berate the bereaved, perhaps it's time to rethink the tactics.

Speaking in tongues at a funeral. OMG.

Can you say: attention whore?

I was ok until someone behind me started up with speaking in tongues, and said humina, humina, humina ala Jackie Gleason in the honeymooners. I had to leave with my hand over mouth and tears coming out of my eyes from trying to not laugh out loud . thankfully they thought I was overcome with grief.

And I say this as an atheist.

He was very low key. He didn't just do the funeral, he showed up at my family's house the day of the death to console family members.

He was not judgmental, didn't once say a nasty thing about Those Other Faiths. His concern was helping those in grieving.

IIRC, the more sane Christian denominations out there require their pastors, priests, or preachers to take classes in psychology and counseling when they're in seminary, so they know better than to thump their bible at a funeral.

just as the pastor you met was. He showed the spirit of grace and love and comfort.

It would help some of these thug preachers around here to learn some restraint, but the old timers think it's God hisself making the preachers turn red in the face and scream at people and judge everyone as wicked, so there is that.

The preachers scream about the "unsaved," but they aren't going to bring most people in with fear and rage, so fortunately they'll always have empty churches.

They will make themselves obsolete by turning people off from faith.

The family insisted on having my niece's husband officiate the service for fear that I might collapse at the pulpit in grief. I can't blame them for that, and it felt good having him up there next to me during the funeral. Nevertheless, I maintained myself and even got some laughs out of the mourners when talking about an incident involving Ginny, her cat, and a slice of pizza.

Ginny being an atheist, she didn't want a preacher in charge of the ceremony, and her family has a couple of fundie preachers who would have done it if asked. I offered a reading from Bertrand Russell instead. The officiator did lead the assembled in prayer, I recall, but that's about as far as it went. I think we honored her wishes to her satisfaction.

She is still missed here.

I'm glad you made sure she had the kind of service she would have wanted.



I know you miss her far more than we do.

Then devolve into a sermon.

Complete with altar call.

High level of suckatude.

It's the first funeral since high school where I've heard such judgmental spewage, so I was not prepared. Edit to say: not prepared at first.

That one in the late '70s was horrible. The preacher basically told the assembled that the deceased was going straight to hell, no ifs, ands or buts. The dude was an alcoholic and an awful husband, but it's no other human's place to determine his fate. Who knows about these things except that person and their Creator, if there even is one?

The screaming was so bad, from the widow and kids and the preacher, I almost fainted in that church. At least this time, I knew how to center myself and just pray for everyone who was suffering. Then I tuned him out.

When I was at that long ago nightmare of a funeral, I kept thinking about the guy on the cross next to Jesus, ( I was still a Christian then) and how the preacher would have condemned the dude to hell.

Your bible may give you some clues, but if you think you're fit to judge anyone, I would think you're assigning yourself to hell for trying to play god.

It's hilarious here because most of the young men they're screaming at walk out of the church and return when the screamer (who is looking for some replacements for the tithe) has finished.

No one listens - I see people checking their mail- I put in one earplug. Folks leave =some head to the bathroom. I don't know how families of the deceased deal with that crap.
Some folks request no sermon (in the name of peace)

I guess the preachers must get some kick out of it, but damn, it's no way to treat people and then call yourself "pure in heart."

That's just pure meanness right there.

"No sermon" sounds like a good choice there

But it's on my bucket list!

family, who- I guess- are Catholic.

Dad was never Catholic, and while a believer his was a sort of open-ended, 12 step belief, his God the one of Einstein, or Spinoza.

It was jarring, and he would have either been appalled or amused .... not to mention, the officiant.. Maybe it was a Priest, i dont know, they were divorced and remarried so I don't know how that would work with the RCC... honestly I wasnt paying attention, but whoever the fire and brimstone guy was, he airbrushed a good chunk of his life out of the summary, namely first wife and the adult kids of that marriage who were sitting inconveniently in the audience right in front of him---leaving it up to an uncle of my dad to finally acknowledge our presence.

Classless, and classy, respectively.

The irony is, his 2nd wife- i never refer to her as my "stepmom", but I am close to her and respect her a lot-- became a Buddhist after he died and is about as opposite from a fundy as you could imagine.

So I really never found out what the hell that was about. But ... it was a long time ago.

I am sorry you had to endure that.

The officiant was a jerk.

Of course we all know that preachers and rabbis and such do a lot of funerals, and it's impossible for them to know everything about the deceased, but at least they can try to be a peaceful, comforting presence rather than bullying people who are already emotionally traumatized or just plain grieving.

Glad it all worked out in the end. I guess it's a good time for everyone to let their families know what they want when the time comes, so their families don't have to be dangled over the pits of hell on a priest's whim.

But I was pretty young.


I was more glad that I had been able to see him before he died, since everything happened pretty quickly and I was living 2000 miles away.

I agree with what you say, though. I think everyone who knows me at all knows any sort of religious observance is off the menu, when I go.

It was the oddest thing! The dead person was "better" than the "ungrateful children" who didn't appreciate the deceased's
"hard work and pain."

In actual fact, the deceased coddled the youngest, drunkard son and never held him to account, pushed away his bride who was trying to get him to make something of himself, alienated the other children while enabling the youngest's alcoholism, and the siblings getting the business from the minister were the ones who financially (and generously so, apparently) supported the deceased for decades, and were paying for the funeral!

I was a bit taken aback. It was an interesting funeral, though! I didn't know the deceased, so it wasn't like I was personally affected, but I did find the minister's behavior odd as hell.

are never ready for that kind of hateful talk at a funeral!

Those poor kids you spoke about: how can any jerk do that to someone's grieving children? It boggles the mind, and it tells me that some people are in the business of religion to be bullies - like moral bad apple cops - and they adore judging others and kicking them when they're down.

Sickos.

A pox on them all.

I was renting their house, where the mother lived before she became infirm, which was just up the road from the church and the cemetery. They all lived in the city, far away, so they just came in for the funeral. I threw a post-funeral feed of sandwiches and bar food for the assembled mourners after the event, simply to be polite and because most of the "mourners" were friends and acquaintances from the village.

They drank all my booze, but I got to know even more of my neighbors, so it was all good. The minister didn't hang around much--people were ragging on him before they started in on their second drink!!! That made the post-plant 'em party worth it...there were more than a few imitations of that crabby bastard, within his earshot, too!

And good for you, too, for caring for them so well.

a few great scenes in a movie!!!

All we needed was a soundtrack!

I guess that's one way to get the last word!

was robbing her blind. When she got sick and had to go into care (and she was at one of the best places going), he wasn't able to come by the house, have an old lady make him tea and give him a sandwich, and then con her into writing him a cheque.

He didn't make any effort to get off his ass and go visit her--she was only maybe twenty or so miles away, and this was a rural setting where that wasn't an insurmountable distance.

When she got sick he had to live within his means--I think that's what pissed him off!

A thoroughgoing narcissist can have a captive audience and be the complete center of attention while getting to hear the sound of their own voice for nearly an hour.

It's disgusting, but they get away with it because they are doing it in the "name of the Lord".

at my oldest boys funeral.

But if he had done what you say,at the least I would have told him to STFU and go on,or knocked the hell out of him.

because if any preacher tries to make it about his God Complex, he will be ushered out the door.

I will refrain from violence, I think. But I have never gone through the horror, rage and despair of losing a child as you have, so I can't say for sure there.


Edit to add: sorry for your loss

The catholic priest sure did a lot of yelling. We were all like, 'WTH?' but my grandmother loved him and had him over to her house often, and he thought highly of her. The church was jam-packed because she was so well known and loved...maybe the priest thought he had to put on a show. The yelling was interrupted by poignant speeches by relatives so it wasn't overwhelming - we had breaks. But we all thought it was very strange.

to terrorize or enrage the grief right out of people?

I witnessed a Catholic priest chastising a bereaved middle aged widow during the eulogy because she never had children and allowed her late husband to die childless.

Because I was gonna read it and I didn't care, shaking hands and tears and all.

"Peace be still"

Good you had someone with peace to calm you in a way. Death is hard.

I went to Valparaiso U. in Indiana and though I didn't complete my degree there, I learned about the ways of Christ And Mary Magdelene. Every day normal people, walking this earth.

Preachers like this, don't believe their own teachings, and to me, it's that simple.

Hugs to YOU.

that the funeral parlour was charging over $500 to use a room for the family to get together.

I had no say in the arrangements as it was my son-in-law's ashes being put to rest. The parlour people put up a tarp for us to say our final goodbye to my son!

Everything is moneymaking these days and to hell with the people who are grieving!

to feed someone's wallet or ego.

Parasites all...

we were heading out to the cemetery, the person from the funeral home told us that the original casket was broken so my son-in-law's name is no longer engraved on it. We were so upset but it seems like the people at the funeral home do not give a shit. Meanwhile, they still charge you for their incompetency.

This is so emotional for us but the funeral home people do not give a shit!

Did you ever see the engraved casket?

If not, you have to wonder if they just took the money and lied through their teeth. Sorry for his loved ones having to go through that.

Either way, I suppose it's over, but you can remember him in your own way.

Let the cruel and the greedy go on with their bad selves, and be at peace. Your son-in-law would want that for you all, I believe

Religion: just say no.

Of which specific branch of the religion are you?

Pestoist? Carbonarist? Tomatoist? Meatballist?

I had been married to my first husband for 3 months when his mother died. Funeral was standard stuff -- prayers, music, a few testimonials. But it was afterwards, at her home, when all the relatives were eating food brought over by friends, sharing memories of her, some gentle laughter at some memory or another, the minister arrived. Rather than taking an inward reading of the room, the stage of grief, the general atmosphere, he started in with the doom and gloom and had people in tears again within 15 minutes of arriving. He could have shared memories of her, shown some appreciation of the memories of others, but no, he had to go into his schtick (don't remember details -- it was 1976). When the sobs got too loud, he left. He was less than useless.

Instead of honoring or remembering the deceased, it was a lot of yelling how the deceased is doomed to spend eternity in a detailed and varied description of Hell. It probably scared the children. It scared me.

I prefer the funerals in my family, which are usually non-denominational, and involve beer.

about the person in a funny way, because most of my family and friends are smart-asses who love to tease one another and remind each other of our stupider moments.

That's our coping mechanism, but memorial services tend to be a lot of loved ones getting up and speaking about the person, crying sometimes, but making everyone really learn something new about that person. We all leave with fresh, good memories of the lost loved one.

But fundies want people to feel like trash. It's really a horrible mindset that ties in with their own feelings of worthlessness, but they would never admit it.

I suppose the fundies love to make people feel as if they are nothings and nobodies, but the incredible thing is that these preachers can't figure out that this poison sentiment is part of the despair up here that leads to pill, alcohol and meth addiction. You constantly scream at a community that they are worthless pieces of shit unless they do exactly as you say, and they will avoid you like the plague, but they will be as wounded as abused people can be.

It makes for a very broken society when these sociopaths who hate their fellow man become the religious leaders.

Record one of his sermons and post it on You Tube.
Then when he starts getting those negative responses it might just wake him up
Also it could motivate other people who feel the same way you do, to start recordings also and posting them.