No matter how much they have, it's never enough. They make me sick.

and if you use that yardstick, you are not rich. But if you use the yardstick of median wealth it's a lot harder to see yourself as middle class.

Back in the Great Depression, millionaires were the billionaires of the day. To equal $1 million in 1933, you would have to have $18 million today.

dollars when the neighbors down the street have 15 or 20 million. They always want more.

call themselves middle class as well. Why this term is quite meaningless by now.

But enough about how much money millionaires have.

clearly MOST (80%) members of the top 5% are NOT members of the "legendary 1%" which some people on the left want to narrow down to the 0.1% or the 0.01%. It was argued here on DU that Ben Affleck, for example, wasn't "really rich" compared to a billionaire.

People with negative net worth and receiving EITC are often convinced they are middle class just like millionaires (see the article "It's not like I am poor&quot .

Some millionaires based on net worth metrics can accurately be called middle class. If you are scraping by on a low/middle income but happen to own a small house in LA through inheritance say, you're a millionaire who feels little wealth benefit. Same if you are a pre-SS age retiree living off a 1 million nest egg. You get 37K a year invested in safe 30 yr T bills. Not going to make you feel rich.

But these are esceptions. Certainly anyone with multiples of a million in free clear income producing investments is undoubtedly rich ($5m will get you a guaranteed 185k a year minimum). Why don't most think they are? Envy is one answer, another may be investment strategy. If you have $5m in a 401k but you are working for say 75k a year in Boston, you won't think yourself rich until you retire and start getting that disbursemment. The recent case of the janitor leraving millions in his will is an extreme example of this. But I think mostly it's ingrained self-image. Someone not born rich who gort lucky or invested well is less likely to consider themselves rich than a fading socialite from blue-blooded stock who has less money but more established self-perception as upper class.

And that "nest egg" is the fruit of years of saving. And they are still living on a "fixed income", trying to make the money last in case of a major illness that wipes out every penny.

I think of them as upper middle class, but not wealthy.

What would the Cleaver residence be worth today?

where was Mayfield?

my autistic son. Right now, that of course, is a pipe dream.

especially the guillotines for these greedy, evil assholes. Like this afternoon.

Bernie would certainly not endorse a shameful remark like that.

Pretty disgusting. Get help.

"Studies show that more than three-quarters of today's millionaires made their money themselves and started out in the middle class or lower. Wealth experts say these self-made millionaires may still see themselves as having middle-class values of hard work, humility and family despite their increased wealth."


The 75% figure really surprised me.

How a person perceives themselves is often at odds with how other people see them.

don't live that lifestyle. A lot of money is tied up in their business and is not disposable.

But whateves.

Truthfully, I would think if a person can not have in their hands One Million Dollars Cash by the end of any working day then I would/could not classify them as a millionaire but, this is my measuring stick, I am sure everyone has their own definition.

On paper, even I look solvent and, I assure you, that is not the case.

Homeowners, for example, are worth a hell of a lot more on paper and is no reflection of what they have in the bank and can actually spend.

Toss in a 401K that can't be touched without huge penalties and is earmarked for retirement, and some would look rich here on DU.

Having a house worth $500K doesn't make you wealthy if you have to buy another one of the same price in an inflated market.

I could not afford a house in my own neighborhood anymore.

(I bought a fixer-upper in 2004).

in a great neighborhood. We've gradually fixed it up and the market value today would prohibit us from buying it.

However, that does me zero good when I go to the grocery store.

Last edited Wed May 6, 2015, 09:20 PM - Edit history (1)

With my retirement accounts and my house my net worth is $1.1 mil. Those aren't readily accessible assets.

I'm also 57 years old so it took a while to reach that level.

to separate the sheep from the goats.

if it's a house they've had for 20 years now worth $3/4 million or a business that's worth $5 million on paper, they may well fall into the middle class in terms of day to day lifestyle.

A couple nearing retirement may have over a million in home equity and 401ks, but that doesn't mean they have that to spend. We're in that group--a home we bought decades ago plus two 401ks plus some modest savings puts us over the million mark, but it's not really a million because we still have to live in our house and pay taxes on our 401ks.

you could trade it all in when you retire and find somewhere else to live. And you would end up with an annual income that would afford a nice Middle Class lifestyle.

This survey would make more sense if it was people with upper 6 figure annual income.

Dumping the So Cal house & moving to Washington state.. We can have a much nicer home and a better legacy to leave for our kids..

With what we have in the bank (plain ole savings) & our expected (modest) profit from our house we could pay cash for our next (and final) house or have a very affordable mortgage..

and finally have trees & rain as a bonus ..and access to our only grandchild

How much is a million spread out over 20-30 years?

Not "wealthy" by any means.

in the old days, before the war on savers and the middle class, your million could earn about $40,000 a year in interest.
Now, you have to spend it for a middle class lifestyle.

We probably fall into that category of having a house with a lot of equity, a paid off rental house, and some savings for retirement.

Put it all together and I'd be over $1 million, but I still have bills to pay, kids to send to college, retirement to save for, etc.

We don't live beyond a middle class to very slight upper middle class lifestyle though.

Also, that money has to last through 20 years of retirement, medical bills, a little travel. I'm looking at a middle class retirement lifestyle too.

Being "worth" a million bucks doesn't mean actually being "rich."

Heck, I just added it up and I'm ALMOST worth a million bucks between house equity, retirement and education savings accounts.

Asset price inflation and all that. The word millionaire is a dated term

as portrayed in the media.

A large house in the suburbs, new cars, family vacations, sparkling fixtures, all the latest gadgets, etc. etc.

where do they live.
What a million will get you in Alabama is different in Silicon Valley.

[img][/img]

I imagine Alabama is much lower

their comfortable standard of living don't feel as wealthy as people who have enough assets to quit.

And the person who has $5 million in assets is in a very different situation than someone with $20 million or $100 million or more.

The category of $5 million and up is almost meaningless. You're lumping in the guy who owns the local dry cleaners with the Koch brothers.

i.e. those that made around $200,000 while the few jobs that existed (gas station attendant, grocery check out clerk, farm hand) paid minimum wage of around $4/hr. (Unless you were a waitress - then you got nothing and better hope you got a tip) also declared themselves to be middle class.

The rich are in denial about being rich: I think they believe no one will want to be their friend anymore if they admit it.