that it is immaterial, because we still have courts, not execution squads.

From what I understand this whole thing started because he made "eye contact" with an officer which is full of shit.

that has even the slightest ability to discern the difference between "detained" and "dead" is going to see it as horseshit to even try to turn it into some controversy.

Detained - put in jail, whether just or not, means you eventually get the chance to prove your innocence or guilt of breaking a law. You also eventually get out of jail.

You don't get out of the grave.

try to come up with reasons to blame the person that is the victim of a crime for whatever "crime" they imagine said person was guilty of.

It's one of those things where people *really* want to believe it will never, ever, happen to them or someone they care about. Somehow it's some rationalization that if they condemn the person that was a victim, they themselves will never be a victim of injustice.

Which is obviously dumb, and just heaps insult on top of injury.

I think we have every right to be outraged that a young man was executed on the street, regardless of how it came to be - and in fact, we HAVE to be outraged, otherwise we have the risk of becoming the next person "responsible for dying at the hands of police, in police custody."

That's the narrative - Gray was responsible for dying. How dare he die and make the Baltimore police look bad!

it is as irrelevant as a box of cigars.

Mosley claimed an illegal arrest because the knife was legal. She brought it up. Everyone heard her including future jury members. She has a credibility issue.

Last I checked, as a citizen of the United States you are allowed due process. Having your spine severed 80% and your larynx crushed isn't due process by any reach of the imagination.

Broke the law = spend time in lockup.

Dead at the hands of law enforcement? That is an execution and a life sentence.

There isn't an excuse you can come up with that will make that justice bucket hold water.

Many of the charges spring from the knife. She was the one making those charges, no one else. At this point all we know is Gray is dead. We do not know how he died and how he got his injuries. The prosecutor had not said a word about that. How he died is key to the rest of the charges. All we have now is internet speculation and rumor.

that he's dead. That's an established fact.

... custody. The exact manner of death is 100% irrelevant.

People die in police custody everyday for various reasons. Most the police have nothing to do with. It is 100% relevant.

... injured him using improper restraint procedures, or they injured him in the nickel ride. Now, it might make a difference as to WHICH cops go to jail, but it either way they are responsible.

For example, federal law bans switchblades so a city can not pass a law allowing them.

Federal law does not ban blades over 3", but any city can pass a ban on blade length.

I belive Freddie Gray had a spring assisted knife that the cops said was a switchblade, but spring assisted and switchblades are different, and as such the knife was not illegal

Take minimum wage laws. A city can legislate a minimum wage higher than the state, which in turn can go higher than the federal minimum wage. Knife restrictions are similar. Just because a type of knife has is not in violation of federal or state law doesn't mean it won't violate local law.

would be a lesser infraction than a state or federal law too.

Thus the penalty for such- would not be death.

state and local law can be more restrictive...unless it's a Constitutional issue.

BUT, that's just my recollection which could be wrong.

They are legal in many states.

It wasn't an automatic opening knife like a switch blade but it does have a spring assist to open

illegal but we can have a 40 cal. pistol with a 17 round capacity. Hey NRA don't we have a right
to keep and bare arms? Could it be guns are the weapon of choice for white folks but street thugs have always been
portrayed with a switchblade.

that I can flash open in less than a heartbeat. I don't even need a spring loaded one.

Should I be arrested for having fast hands? Should I be arrested for being one of "those people" that hones their tools for every day use to a degree that other people cannot?

I'm a hell of a lot more dangerous with a hammer than with a 4" bladed knife, or an iron skillet. I don't see anybody wanting to ban pressure cookers, either.

A tool is a tool.

I should probably make a video of it. It would be highly instructive to those who think switchblades are some unique menacing weapon, because ANY folded knife can be used in skilled hands to pop open quicker than you can say dandelion.

in a fraction of a second. I think the switchblade ban came about because of the street gangs portrayed back in the 50s. Same goes for drugs they became illegal because of fear the black and Hispanic man would get high and rape their women folk.

in the difference between the two types of folding pocket knives.

I did read that the knife he was carrying was a spring assist but I don't know which model
he was carrying.

State law does not overrule city code when they do not conflict. They are not in conflict here. The cops charged Gray under city code which they are entitled to do. Ms. Mosley could resolve this by letting people see the knife. For some reason she is not doing that. She can't keep it hidden forever. And yes, it is important to many of the charges, something that people are trying to ignore.

it was in his pocket and the cops would have no reason to know if it was legal or illegal.

The sight below says it was a spting assisted knife.

And don't we haave the right to self defense? So maybe the law forbidding the knife violates Gray's rights like the cops did.


~~~~~~

Zayon contests Mosby's claim that officers illegally arrested Gray, and he said an inspection of the knife will show it was illegal.

State law says a person may not "display" a "switchblade" or a "knife or a penknife having a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife."

Baltimore City code says a person can't carry or possess any knife "with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife."

A Baltimore police task force, commissioned to investigate Gray's death, analyzed the knife and determined that it was "spring assisted" and in violation of the city's law.

Many activists, protesters and city leaders say the distinction is irrelevant because officers didn't know or suspect that Gray had the knife on him. They, like Mosby, say there was no probable cause to stop him.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-freddie-gray-statements-20150505-story.html#page=1

1. Was the stop lawful? Case law says that running from Law enforcement may be enough for the officers to make the initial contact.

2. Was there probable cause for arrest? This is where the knife becomes relevant. If it was legal to carry, then what was the basis for arrest? If it was illegal to carry, that would provide sufficient cause for arrest.

We license people to carry concealed firearms in essentially every state in the union.

Guns can be bought with a simple background check.

Laws against knives are with few exceptions, abject stupidity.

I suspect, if he had lived, and fought his arrest on second amendment grounds, he could have prevailed.

It was never just about "guns".

Anyone that is familiar with using pocket knives of the 4-5" blade variety don't even need spring assistance, they can already flip one out using the pocket knife of their choosing.

I'm not even going to qualify that statement, because I've carried a couple of flip open knives for years, and not for nefarious purposes. A little WD-40, loosening up the star screw, and they are easy as hell to open, employ and then close.

I've already complained about packaging that is difficult to get into, so I don't think I have any reason to justify myself on this one.

I have no idea why certain knives are illegal in certain states to begin with - they are a highly useful tool. Hammers are probably more effective at killing people than a traditional knife, and I don't see people wanting to make owning a hammer illegal.

I tend to see laws of this nature, as a measure of how well those who might make such laws trust those of us who have to live by them.

where police are legally allowed to stop and question literally anyone they see. Many cities have these limited to particular areas specifically linked to particular criminal activities (e.g. in DC they would question anybody standing around Sursum Corda, and any white people found walking towards it; there was kind of racial cordon sanitaire enforced by a ring of beat cops). I'm pretty sure that was allowed federally by the Safe and Drug Free Schools and Communities Act (the same thing that gave us "drug free zones" and "gun free zones" around schools). What wasn't envisioned was Baltimore's use of that authority to label entire wards as drug free zones, which basically gave cops the legal power to arrest anybody they saw at any time and come up with a reason for it later after they searched them. (Single cigarette in your pocket? Must have bought a loosie illegally. Etc.)

The man came up dead in the custody of the cops.

THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON and not get diverted into talking about a knife that was in Gray's pocket — guess the cop had x-ray vision to spot the knife in his pocket, huh?

The man is dead, that is the big, fu_king, glaring issue we should be talking about, and also how courageous the prosecutor is to do what those coward, racist prosecutors in Ferguson and Staten Island failed to do,

She, like the sensible people watching in the country and around the fu_king world, know there was probable cause (a man coming up dead in police custody) and she bought up charges against those most likely responsible for his death.

That is not rocket science. It's not a credibility issue because of some fu_king knife.

It's what a sensible prosecutor should do and she did.

But if the knife was illegal, then the false imprisonment charges will have to be dropped.

Additionally, if it's true that the knife was illegal, it's a bit troubling that SA Mosby didn't know that.