But still wrong.

And, I know you have a dog in this fight.


As a non-football fan, I don't.

Just sayin' is all.....

Cheater.

which kind of reinforces the reputation of the NFL about being hands-off with respect to penalizing players for domestic violence.

Technically, Peterson was "suspended indefinitely," but he missed 14 games while suspended by the league (plus another in which he was suspended by his team). Ray Lewis wasn't suspended, I don't think, but his incident predates the "Player Conduct" policy that most such suspensions fall under.

I have yet to see where Brady tells someone to underinflate footballs below legal pressure


Just sayin' is all.....

The deflated balls are evidence of cheating.

I'm not a football fan, but I watch the Ed Show, and all the football experts he interviewed said that there was no way such a situation could happen without Brady's knowledge.

2psi off the mark...but keep dreaming

who found the evidence of wrong-doing.

The NFL has proven it is a corrupt and incompetent organization, many times over,

but do enjoy kissing their arses.

I've never gone to any of their games nor bought any of their merchandise.

How on earth can I be described as "kissing their arses"?

If you don't trust the organization that runs the team you are so blindly loyal to, you might question that loyalty.

This is YOUR dilemma, not mine.

and each quarterback's preferences. He lobbied to have NFL rules changed in his favor years ago. Seriously, this is why the Patriots and their fans are scorned. He got caught cheating with deflated balls, which he knowingly does to enhance his performance outside the NFL rules. That's CHEATING.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/brady-pushed-for-rule-to-let-visiting-team-provide-own-footballs/
“The thing is, every quarterback likes it a little bit different,” Brady told the Sun-Sentinel at the time. “Some like them blown up a little bit more, some like them a little more thin, some like them a little more new, some like them really broken in.”

Brady’s comments come into new focus this week as the NFL investigates whether the Patriots deflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game, in violation of NFL rules. After Patriots coach Bill Belichick said today that he knows nothing about how balls are prepared prior to games, increased attention has turned to whether Brady was behind deflating the footballs.

but hyperbole. Enjoy

that could have exonerated him. The only explanation is that they don't exonerate him. The texts alone from the low-level Patriot employees, one calling himself "Deflator," -- all of that could have been mitigated by Tom but he refused. That's not hyperbole. That is Tom refusing to provide evidence which could have proven the allegations are untrue.

At least now the masks are off the Patriot's farcicle so-called, ill-begotten "dynasty." What a joke!

The guy calling himself the deflator had nothing to do with allegations. One said the footballs were at 16 psi and then said give him a needle to get them down


No one said to under-inflate them. 'You people' jump to assumptions and we all know what that means

The joke is the jealous, envious morons

putting the air back:

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done

Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though

Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs f----- us...a few of then were at almost 16

Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

McNally: F--- tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday

The exchange goes on to describe the material gifts Tom will give them for deflating the balls back to Tom's preferences.

Tom could have cleared this all up by providing his versions of evidence, but he didn't. What a joke! And now with the jealousy deflection. ALL of the NFL players have hot wives/girlfriends, all of them have great muscles and can afford nice clothes. That is no excuse for the cheating. So lame.

But he didn't. You mean to say some low-level nobody in the Pat's organization is going to demand gifts from Tom for no reason, and Tom is just going to take it and have this nobody contribute to his professional humiliation and demise. LOL.

Reality: Brady only had to turn his phone over to his agent who could have looked through it. Yesterday it was reported they would have taken the agent's word for it, but Brady refused even that. Obviously you haven't even been following the REALITY of what is being reported.

He's a very wealthy guy and has an attorney. Smart people run things by their attorneys and take their advice

Unlike so many sheep, I don't listen to the endless speculation and chatter of the media. They are mostly imbeciles

by proving the texts of the low-level Pat's employees were not incriminating by turning his phone over to HIS AGENT. Now you're saying that Tom's attorney advised him to actually FURTHER incriminate himself by stonewalling. That doesn't make sense, and it also hasn't been reported. Do you have a link for that?

No attorney is going to tell an innocent client to bring further harm on himself by not cooperating with whatever controlling authority he reports to if he is indeed innocent.

The REALITY of the situation has been reported, and the REALITY of the situation is that Tom could have ended this damage to himself and his reputation by cooperating, but he didn't. So it's really you who have been a mindless sheep by insinuating the low-level employees who implicated Tom have any power in this situation to derail a career like Tom's without Tom doing something about it. That's hilarious, actually.

and the reality of his nonsense is that he's been suspended and the Pat's have been fined. Enjoy.

The NFL report is looking mighty sloppy, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions,that is, if you are capable of digesting it

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/

"Notice this is not really so much about the science and physics of deflation or whether in fact there was deflation by a preponderance of the evidence. This is not about a court decision. It is about playing together off the field to resolve internal issues. We have seen plenty of examples of a cover-up being punished more severely than the initial transgression, be it in politics or in NCAA sanctions against coaches and schools who stonewalled investigations. Deflating footballs would not have resulted in this..."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogergroves/2015/05/11/the-tom-brady-suspension-shows-non-cooperation-is-a-fumbled-strategy/

All Tom had to do is cooperate with the NFL and this goes away or is mitigated. But he didn't. If he had nothing to hide, it's nonsense to stonewall and put yourself through this. That's the conclusion the NFL also came to -- if you can digest that.

The NFL bungled a bogus sting operation and the ensuing report is garbage

Nothing else matters.

First of all, let me get this out of the way:

So....what is the NFL's motivation for this "sting operation"?

Where is the NFL Office? New York. Do you think the office is neutral about their leanings? Think Jets and Giants.
(1) No smoking gun - Brady never said "deflate the balls under the 12..5 psi minimum".
(2) NFL refs didn't document before/after psi values...for either team. BTW, Baltimore had 3 underinflated balls.
(3) Didn't matter in the Baltimore game. Brady threw better and scored more points in the second half.. maybe
Baltimore should have demanded the Patriots use the same underinflated balls in the 2nd half?
(4) No, this is all about Patriot Hate. Tom and Bill, mainly. The haters need to believe that the best QB and Coach in the NFL over the past 15 years.... CHEATED! Cuz, otherwise, how do they explain their own local incompetence?

so they are buffaloing their way around to get the NFL to cave. Everyone knows that.

If Brady was innocent, he would have just handed over his electronic communications, but he didn't.

I'm sure Brady has Oliver North and all the Iran/Contra paper shredders on the job to shred all his phone records so, oopsie, no records anyway.

This is why the cheating is worth it, especially when there are no real consequences and you get to keep all your shit anyway.

And the Pete Godell led NFL are looked to be the morons they are. Tom did not ask for under-pressured balls and the NFL has no evidence to the contrary. Tom will be exonerated and he might sue the NFL for 20x the loss of wages. Hope he wins.

is being beheaded over this, whatever he does to cheat is not our business.

Of course this was the plan to take it to court with a fancy pants lawyer. Duh. All Tom had to do was turn over this electronic communications to his agent and be done with this, but now they can claim victimhood and sweep it under the rug. lol,

If it were your reputation on the line, would you use fancy pant lawyers or incompetent ones? Doesn't matter your response. You hate Brady and/or the Patriots because they win more than anyone else. And your team probably can't win because they are clueless on how to. Here is my prediction. Pats win their division next year and make it to the Super Bowl. Your team will lose again.

No lawyer would be needed if Tom turned over his texts or electronic communication. He didn't because he has something to hide. He's needs to bluster behind an attorney because he failed to cooperate.

Seriously, quit making shit up now. This thread has been over for days. I'm between movies and checked in here and got this response from you. Nothing you say is remotely accurate about me or even the situation.

His lawyer advised him not to....do you think the rights of the NFL supercede Brady's right as an individusl?

No lawyer would advise him to escalate something when cooperating would exonerate him.

"...as well as revelations that the scientist who conducted the research was co-founder of a pharmaceutical company Kraft had invested in."
Read more at http://www.steelersgab.com/2015/05/19/patriots-robert-kraft-seeks-to-end-rhetoric-over-deflategate-scandal/#14m4V16to0EJE055.99

So one of Kraft's pals did the "science." LOL, like the fox guarding the hen house.

Maybe Kraft saw how guilty Brady was and figured it wasn't worth dragging this out anymore.

edit: from this DU thread today:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026701947#post6

I mean, wow.

of their own self-proclaimed self-importance.

i guess in that sense it gives valuable opportunities to reevaluate our priorities.

I don't know that the penalty fit the crime, but this is low.

Have at it. Do what makes you feel better.

This has to be the most ridiculous "scandal" in the history of the human race. Letting a little pressure out of a football has gained more media attention than the fact the Bush administration lied us into a war.

Scholars in the years 3000 will think we are seriously fucked up. Maybe we are.

Even the rapist?

No it shouldn't say that. It should say, " no, you can't have my phone' as that is the only reason he is being punished

I have yet to see one shred of evidence where Brady told someone to inflate footballs under the legal pressure

Habitual cheaters. What a disgrace.

Maybe you are clueless about football...but maybe you are in a place wbere losers always lose. Do not know!

take her easy

Because you can't hate a winner without contexxt. Just tell me where you live and I can figure it out. Sucks to root fpr a loser team, though.

No, Brady is not as bad as a murderer, a wife-beater, or a rapist. He's just a cheat who got caught. But if pointing out that he is not as bad as murderers or rapists makes you feel better, go right ahead.

to less than the legal weight

And the NFL has no evidence either. "Probably" and "seems" don't cut it. Show us the crime. BBrzdy is all in and has the right lawyer that will make Goodall and the NFL look stupid. Might be Brady's biggest payday ever!

These media led sheep are beyond pathetic

The NFL has a track record of stupidity and this is no different

The NFL is looking like the incompetent Bozos they are known to be

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/

First, prove the NFL wrong. Then, countersue the NFL for defemation of character. With Bob Kraft's money supporting you! He could own the League!

so Brady is on his own.

Wonder why?

That we're talking about five people who committed serious crimes and one guy who cheated at football.

The hyperbole around here is insane. How embarrassing. It makes Dems look moronic

There are six photos in that graphic.

I said five guys who committed crimes and one guy who cheated at football.

Yes, crimes. Murder, assault and battery, rape, wife-beating, child-abuse. That ain't hyperbole. Them's serious crimes, son.

Cheating at football is not a crime. It's cheating at football.

So again, that's five people who committed serious crimes and one person who cheated at football.

Read it again. That's what I'm saying.

You can count all you want, but many here think Brady committed a crime.There is no proof of him even telling anyone to deflate footballs below the legal limit

Of course it's obvious that the others committed crimes to the average person but not always obvious to the corrupt and incompetent NFL

And yes, the hyperbole here is flat out stupid and shows many Dems as childish and silly people

I thought you were talking to me.

My mistake.

Only a rumor, but he did kill at leat one guy, probably 3, so the NFL could claim he amd Brady had a CONSPIRACY to deflate footballs! Let's go with it!

Arrogant fucks like Lance Armstrong, Tom Brady et. al. all are lying pieces of crap.

I used to pull for Brady. He's a cheater and a liar.

...I should put it about halfway between sign-stealing in baseball and scuffing a baseball by a pitcher. And well below, say, corking a bat--which Babe Ruth is known to have done...so let's kick him out of the Hall of Fame retroactively! After all, he was a "cheater", too... Cripes, people. Can't we get some sense of proportion? There are folks here at DU who need one...

3 pounds less pressure in the ball on a Rainy/Wet day...
can make ALL the difference to a quarterback OR a receiver.

That would be dumb. Brady liked his footballs at the low end. 11-1/2 LBS. Rogers liked them at 13. Why aren't we suspending Rogers for 4 games??

Last edited Wed May 13, 2015, 10:38 PM - Edit history (1)

The NFL is pathetic. None of the footballs' pressure were recorded pregame, then at half time, all of the Pats were recorded and only 4 of the ColtsI( 3 of those 4 were under inflated... oh my), and the gauges seem to be junk

Clearly it was a bumbling sting operation. See what you think

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/

Air Pressurer ?

Cheater, and liar.

in the primaries, and it is later determined to be more probable than not that she participated in cheating to gain an electoral edge. And during the investigation she refused to turn over her text messages to investigators. And the other evidence contradicts her statements. You are OK with that?

Sounds like you have a personal vendetta. (I don't know if you have one, I don't know you.) Just sayin'.

We are discussing lying and cheating. The OP is a Patriots fan and Bernie supporter. I also support Bernie. So the question is, is lying and cheating given a pass if it involves a person and team one supports, while on the other hand it is deemed unacceptable when used by an opponent to gain an advantage over a person (or team) one supports?

Personally, I find lying and cheating unacceptable at all times. But then that's just me.

And no, I have no personal vendetta whatsoever.

Creative rationalization followed by some colorful self-validation. Adorable. Simply adorable.

just seeking clarification on whether lying and cheating is permissible depending on one's association with the person/team in question.

If Bernie is the nominee and Republicans cheat to gain an advantage I have little doubt that everyone on DU would go ballistic. But if it's the Dems who cheat do we then try to rationalize and diminish the severity of their/our actions?

That is the point I'm trying to get across. Go to the Boston Globe and read all the comments pertaining to this issue. The majority by far believe the Patriots and Brady did nothing wrong, completely dismissing all the evidence that points in the other direction.

So either cheating is wrong and any person/organization that cheats should be held accountable, or everyone else is afforded the same opportunity to cheat without fear of punishment.

Rather than 'air pressure' it should say " no, you can't see my phone" because that is why he is being punished

The haterade drinkers on this thread are pitiful

rides on this high profile game's outcome.
Criminals go to jail for stealing much less.

Yet, I think This ball deflation business is getting too much attention/press relative to the crimes of the other players in this graphic. It led all the nightly news reports! Above the lives lost in the string of storms fergodssake!!

Perhaps such attention has to do with another kind of *ball deflation*? Of a large group of fans?

Cheered that their ass should be in jail for murder, rape, assault and not a mere 4 game suspension for cheating.

Tone deaf.

That is why they are punishing him

The NFL clearly takes cheating very seriously. Brady got a 4 game suspension, the Patriots got a $1 million dollar fine, and they lost their first round pick next year and a 4th round pick in 2017.

At the end of November, the Vikings got caught, on TV, heating up footballs on the sidelines during a cold weather game. When it was brought to their attention, the NFL officials asked them to knock it off. Then a memo was issued reminding teams they couldn't do that.
http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

Less than 6 weeks ago, Atlanta got caught piping in crowd noise for a COUPLE of seasons at their home games. They got a $350k fine, lost a FIFTH round pick and their team president was suspended. Not suspended from being team president, just not allowed to be the Chairman of the NFL competition committee (the ones that WRITE the rule book), for one year.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25128847/report-falcons-will-lose-draft-picks-over-crowd-noise-scandal

The same day, Cleveland got a $250k fine, a 4 game suspension for their GM who was the one that actually violated the rule but no loss of draft picks for "illegal texting" during the game.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25128837/report-browns-texting-scandal-nets-gm-suspension-no-draft-pick-loss

Apparently, at some point between March 30th and May 11th, it would appear the NFL significantly changed their position on punishing those that challenge the "integrity of the game".

Like, ever.

Oh well.

Did Brady make it? He's the only one on the team that was implicated in this incident. You know they didn't spend 4 months on this just to suspend Brady, they wanted Belichick.

The idea the Dick Cheney of pro football didn't know this was going on is ludicrous. The Patriots have thrown Tooooommy under the bus.

Who threw brady under the bus? No one in the Wells report seems to have "ratted him out", nor did brady seem to have "fallen on his sword"

That's all. The team left him to flounder for twenty minutes in that dumb press conference.

If they had any proof Belichick knew this was going on, he'd be done for a year, at least. And that's more of a hit to the Patsies than Brady for four games.

Caretaker: Most of these old boys don't have nothing. Never had nothing to start with. But you, You had it all. Then you let your teammates down, got yourself caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

Paul Crewe: Oh I did, did I?

Caretaker: Oh I ain't saying you did or you didn't. All I'm saying is that you could have robbed banks, sold dope or stole your grandmother's pension checks and none of us would have minded. But shaving points off of a football game, man that's un-American.

Good dialogue.

As abhorrent the others crimes/ offenses are , they have a civil punishment avenue that is a precursor to league punishment .....this one is all about the League .

& it still sucks.

... but even you must realize that, from the league's perspective, there is a difference between off the field conduct (reprehensible as it may be) and cheating in the games. The behavior of the other players you post is/was inexcusable, but it was off the field stuff. Brady and the Pats cheated to win games. No one is saying Brady is as bad as a murderer or rapist. But he IS a cheater, and that has to be dealt with in the context of his play on the field. Otherwise, the league becomes even more of a joke that we already think.

Really? I have yet to see where Brady tells anyone to underinflate footballs below legal pressure

I do see a lot of jealousy and hyperbole.

would know exactly how that ball should feel in his hands?

I imagine the footballs might feel different depending on a variety of factors, including ambient temperature. Sorta like my truck tires. It confounds me how the pressure constantly changes...80 psi one day ...70 psi the next. It annoys me, because I am a stickler about safety


I would love to see "hands = scientific temperature gauge" as an argument in a court

Still waiting to see where Brady directed anyone to underinflate footballs below legal limit

It's only fair to have proof, if one is going to take away 2 million from his livelihood.

I'm sure sane and decent people would agree

You mean an assumption and well we all know about assumptions

a football. not a tough one

Here is what Tom Brady thinks. I want a football on the softer side of NFL Regs.....that'11.5 psi. Below that it becomes an issie throwing and catching. There is a point where low pressure effects throwing and catching, right? Brady may well like his footballs under the Wilson recommended limit. Some ( like Aaron Rodgers) like over the recommended limit by Wilson. So fucking what? If the QB thinks he has a cometitive advantage at whatever the recommended psi, it should be his call....he is the person throwing the goddam ball...no no else.

You know fuckall about what you are talking about. But, oddly enough, you are communicating in a way that I can comment on.