I put it in the all trash group a few years ago - not because of content . . . but because I can't relate/it's not for me at all.

most of your post a given. but had to chuckle that this

i participated on one mans board. no more "nice guy". very very interesting. i spent a couple weeks reading, listening and discussing.

i do not remember the last time i went into du mens group

but, ... two examples and i gotta agree

The blogger, David Futrelle, has made it a mission to identify and make fun of those guys, as well as expose their twisted misogyny. He's funny as hell

Strange brew in those groups.

Victoria's Secret, I get it, but yoga pants?

I think it is wonderful that so many men can say this. Alan Alda was one the first I think to start this idea. So thanks to him. I don't see why more men are not accepting of the idea that equality for women means equality for everyone. I also think the line about less feminist women is bullshit. If that is the case, then there would not be the great strides today. Women appreciate the feminist man in the workplace and elsewhere. Again it boils down to equality and women knowing they are equal with men and men accepting that.

I so need one of these:

Men already have the power in society. There should be no special men's groups because they already have the good old boys clubs. I too, am a guy feminist. I am not ashamed to say it. These men's groups are just crying for something they have. If they would only realize that women have more respect for men in the family, on jobs, on dates, etc. then they will relate better to women. Women favor male feminists over men who are not.

All of that doesn't mean that there aren't important areas that are deserving of notice...

How so? Seems like men can't take it when they're are criticized for sexist behavior.

Oh wait, freedom of assembly and all that. Shucks.

And I think you're right about Alan Alda. And Phil Donahue. Boy, do I feel old... that was a long time ago.

I think the OP is useless without sources. It's just hearsay without them.

oh. and. why dont feminist believe i am a feminist. i say so.!!!

I can no longer even use the phrase "nice guy" to describe an ACTUAL nice guy anymore, due to that one board. That's how venomous the experience was.

It's an opinion of what I've read in the many many Men's group that permeate the intertubes.

I would think the Op would be useless to those it hits square in the eyes.

Bam!

rather than just accept one person's view. I'm guessing that's by design. Good job.

type in the search words the OP provided and vivit some of those sites and then come back to give us your opinion.

He's just playing his usual games.

I don't think it's any secret what you think of DU's mens group.

Prove me wrong.

I love this mission statement here:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/policies/mission-statement/

What a positive group.

Enclosed link to avfm article has been run through donotlink's service. Read brief snippet about donotlink at bottom of this post.

If by critical you mean "foaming at the mouth rabid," then uh, yeah, it's almost exactly the same; if I tilt my head, squint my eyes, and let my brains run out of my head; they look almost exactly the same.

And just because I never know any more, the previous was

You hooked one.

Mommy as an authority figure.

necessary for the survival of the female half of the species. They seem to think this is a new turn of events in the existence of humans, but the truth is that females have managed to pretty much do just fine without men for the most part since time began.

I don't know why this particular sector of males take it all so seriously and self-victimize; whining, moaning and sobbing, and sadly worse when it comes to criminal events...

Maybe that's a good question to pose for discussion; why do so many men resort to violence when it turns out they're not welcomed within a family unit? I wonder if it's because they feel so powerless when the female has 'replaced' them with another partner (or opted to be single)? Basically why can't this sector of males control themselves and not kill women and children, and just deal with it like they're civilized humans, ffs?

Argh.

We do not discuss feminism, hot celebs, exercise clothing, etc... In fact we rarely discuss women at all.

We are not setup to bash women at all. In fact, women are not even a topic.

However, "What I found with the groups I reviewed is---sure---some men have legitimate grievances--- most caused by a divorce. That was about it. Other than that it was nothing more than groups set-up to bash women and objectify women." - is also anecdotal.

That is my point.

my bad...

Carry on.

Too bad the majority screw it up for the good groups.

It's also bad that the really good groups do not have the membership that they should because of the preconceived notion that all men's groups are just a bunch of sophomoric fronts for an MRA agenda. This keeps a great deal of really good men from joining.

Too bad for the guys that have those preconceived notions.

I'm a member of a discussion group for men with depression, anxiety, and other issues. It's tough to get men to join the conversations. There is a stigma attached to joining a men's group, and without anonymity the membership would be non-existent. But when you read other boards and the topic comes up, you can feel like shit for looking for help from other men.

Only then will you get a full taste of the homophobia and sexism that fills the average white male brain in this country.

You are assuming that what is posted on some sports board is representative of the "average white male brain."

I don't know what sites you are visiting, but I don't see that on any Florida Gator sports boards I visit.

Point me to all those homophobia and sexist posts on my favorite board...

http://mudlizard.com/swamp/

no, sports discussion boards are not female-friendly by and large. I wrote an essay about it once. And what passes for "sports radio" these days is disgustingly misogynist. I don't tune in to hear about some waitress' boobs, yet that is what we get on ESPN radio every afternoon.

But I would also say that is a loud minority of men, not representative of the "average white man".

What they post when they think their audience is comprised solely of other sexists and homophobes. Can't say I've ever once heard a man pipe up and admonish the sexism or homophobia. So you can say the "average" is too broad brush, but it doesn't seem that way to me.

By the way, as a white person that lived in the south I found white people were much more willing to let their racism out around whites because they just assumed other whites would share their views. They would say things they wouldn't dare say if a POC was in earshot. They found out different around me, of course.

like you are part of the conversation? i have had that only a handful of times, living in texas. but every time it knocked me on my ass. until i thought to jump up and start swinging.

figuratively. not literally.

ya. that one is always something to me.

like. dumb shit. liberal here. not from texas. are you a moran?

I was with a client in Georgia once and he was going on and on about "all the blacks" he had to "put up with."

Finally I cut him off and said, "well you know why you have so many black folks here, don't you?"

He looked at me as if I held the secret of the universe and said, "no, why?"

I said "because your ancestors kidnapped them, and brought them here to enslave them."

Dude was pissed but I didn't give a fuck.

Great come back!

Thanks!

It was my version of "STFU already, dude." Worked like a charm. I didn't hear anymore racist crap from him after that.

OK around other white people, I get real quiet and serious, and then I say, "I guess you don't realize that I am biracial. That's why I have brown eyes and don't sunburn easily despite being a redhead."

Actually, I am not biracial. I am a freckled redhead of varied European ancestry, but the people I say that to don't know my background. (My brown eyes and resistance to sunburn come from my Sicilian-American father.)

Besides, I have a niece and nephew and many precious friends who are POC, and I am determined to stand in solidarity with them. ("I am Spartacus!&quot

I also love to shake up a racist's comfy world view by making him/her question his/her ability to distinguish between "us" and "them" with any degree of certainty.

One amusing consequence of telling friends this story is that some of them have decided to do the same thing when someone makes racist comments in their presence.

In fact, I borrowed the seed of my idea from a former student. He was as pale and blond as Julian Assange, but when he was 6 months old his mother married a black man who, as far as Aaron was concerned, WAS his father. His stepfather loved him and raised him as his own, never treating him any less lovingly than he treated the 3 kids he had with the Aaron's mother. Whenever someone made a racist remark in Aaron's presence, he would smile sweetly and say, "Did I ever show you a picture of my family?" Then he would pull a family photo from his wallet, showing himself, his blonde, blue-eyed mother, his black father, and his three black siblings.

Sure, he lost some "friends" that way, but as he told me, those were the kind of people he didn't want to know anyway.

I find that most people I deal are less openly racist these days, even around other whites--though that is probably because I teach college and live in a notably liberal college town. But I used that little trick several times from the 1970s to the mid-1990s.

There are lots of people above and below average. YMMV.

either.

and if we are wrong maggie, you would think the men might start addressing that so it does not appear so to us women listening to it.

Not something I'll undersign for sure.

Calling someone a homophobic name, or insinuating the poster is a "girl" or feminine are favorite insults. You may not see it in forums where everyone is there to support the same team.

I would argue they are more a vocal and immature section of men, not representative of the "average white mind".

Most men don't visit those sites, and those that do and post often are a small subset of the total male population.

Personally, I don't visit those sites for comments because they all sound like postings from 15 year olds.

That's a long running dinner convo in my house. Are there more crazy jerks out there than when we were younger, or does it just seem that way because the Internet gives them a larger voice than they had before?

Not sure. But I take your point.

What a cesspool of degenerate douchebags.

http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?72929-An-18-year-old-girl-likes-me-tell-me-why-not

And seen a shift in thinking. Less homophobia. More acceptance of women in sports. Less "cheesecake" posts and photos. And a welcoming attitude toward the minority of females who post.

Now I'll grant you I stay off the off topic boards (too many republicans) and humor board (I'm very fussy about what I find funny.) Also two of the moderators are female. So this may make a difference.

Also as a husband and father of two daughters, I wouldn't last long in a forum if there was any bashing or objectifying of women.

Last edited Mon May 18, 2015, 05:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Devoted to educating men and boys on combating "toxic masculinity", being friends and ally's to women, and full of helpful information regarding men's health

This one is awesome (except from a upcoming conference)

i participated in the discussion one subthread up. but, i like this thread. i cannot tell you the value a father gives a daughter, on her worth and confidence.

that is a fav topic of mine.

I also always keep in mind that how I treat my wife is setting the expectation of how they will be treated in a relationship.

I want them to have the best partner, so I try to be the best husband (try anyway, I'm far from perfect).

..or the best flip flops or TV shows fine. I doubt they do though and as a white male I have no idea why a guy would feel the need to join an all male group...I forgot gay guys,, they have a reason.

I have a soccer and football forum that I visit all the time, and a baseball forum I visit occasionally. Male bonding consists of dirty jokes, car talk, beer talk, politics and pictures of women ranging from classy to softcore.

It's mostly a male space although each forum has a few women who are comfortable in that atmosphere. They are mostly down but will on occasion take offense and sometimes be backed by consensus or shouted down by consensus. Politics is the worst, though. Through it all, sports forums have a unified topic that keeps us emotionally together: the team. We can all agree about that regardless of race, nationality, political party or gender. The biggest fights by far are about the team, and the glue is the love we all have for the team.

What do men talk about on men forums? I get that we need a space to talk about our things, same as women do, but it's too uncomfortable for me without a unifying topic that I care about (politics, sports, science etc). Men's forums make me feel like I'm talking about work on a holiday.

Unfortunately, I think some men are still struggling with safe havens to discuss mental and physical health issues without being judged as weak. There are some men who are extremely uncomfortable discussing personal concerns face-to-face.

(just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head)

But as you say, the challenge is talking about it. We are a long way from that as a society and I'm not sure we I'll get there any time soon, if ever.

Most of the members at these male-oriented forums realize that women are becoming more and more fanatical about sports and are adjusting the standards accordingly. Gratuitous Jessica Alba threads (somehow there exists a Jessica Alba shrine in every male forum. Weird huh? ) seems to pass the test on virtually every sports forum, while disparaging women fans and athletes is a good way to be whipped as a backwards neanderthal (rightfully so). The standard is setting in that these forums have to be welcoming towards women, which is good. So while boob threads still exist, outright misogyny generally isn't tolerated. American sports forums tend to be better than British ones in this regard.

The Voice for Men crowd seem like a parody of men, to me. All these crazy conspiracy theories about women make them sound like the most bitter divorcees in an echo chamber. It's embarrassing to see. Thankfully I don't recall seeing many of these types on sports forums. A lot of the AVfM crowd come across as hating sports, which apparently keeps them away.

There are fanatics in every group, I wouldn't read a thing any of them had to say, let alone subscribe to it. But to imply that human beings - social creatures who need to be able to express themselves to those they find themselves comfortable with, should be broad-brushed for it based upon gender, is just silly.

to express ourselves. Expressing one's self in these communities makes the internet great. On DU certain communities are vilified if they don't conform

The OP is obviously directed at DU's men's group. He got around a hide by being vague. The men's group on this site doesn't seem particularly evil or anything. I don't get why so many threads are devoted to attacking a small DU subforum that is seemingly inoffensive.

I don't hang out so don't know, I imagine a the kind of man that was continued discrimination would be attracted something associated with men's rights but isn't like there are issues just I don't see issues of -- male victims of domestic violence, rape or any type of sexual reports the lack to report crimes based on the idea they will be laughed at, etc you know how the men's rights guys I'm referring too. This effects both sexes but from the moment we grow up girls are treated very different than males in society generally. Women are often encouraged to express their emotions, communicate, etc males grow up "toughen up" when they show emotions, suck it up, etc. I don't know if that is a men's rights issue but the idea behind Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus are based on this to explain what is causing the communication breakdowns like anger is often used the cover emotions of fear, worry, "weak emotions" this effects both when men are considered rational, logical, & being called "she" or a "woman" is often an insult and believe it or not woman do this as well because we are drilled from parents, schools, etc as ways to behave when a lot of people that men are women are naturally different when there is more to it. I have seen all the good & bad in both sexes, I was married to someone used logic & common sense more than anyone really. Taught me a lot when it comes to respecting yourself which she was the best I ever seen at men or women.

What's next? The gungeon, the NRA apologist forums????

Hooked two.

Almost a pile

Like this thread, for example?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x1027616

And we all know people don't grow and change...

I don't see anything wrong with a little talk about hot celebrities. I'm pretty sure women talk about them too. It's not particularly unhealthy as far as I can tell.

But hey, never miss an opportunity to bash people who might not see the world as you do Trumad.

Some people just try to pretend it doesn't exist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=215x137026

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12043066

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12046812

etc., etc.

Very interesting.

If I have time tonight I might browse through a couple of the old SI wars.

In the sports forum. yeah...clear sign that I hate feminists.

Keep trying.

especially compared to "Hot Celebs and Women's excercise clothing".

Hook line and sinker. Hilarious. Just a few more...

Oh, my!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024498713

of certain people.

It is actually a hyper aggressive sense of masculinity. The tough guy "I'll protect the wimmensfolk" mentality at play.

Condemn rape jokes, laugh at pedophile jokes about boys...

If Hypocrites had a mascot...

Knew you would be along.

Charge on, brave sir knight!

I like to pretend I know people's motivations too. It certainly let's us maintain the pretense we're more clever than we really are and may actually convince people we know what we're talking about...

That wouldn't describe anyone here, of course.

You would think the fun police would have better things to do.

My friends and I talk about hot guys all the time.

Why do some people seem to think that's such a mind crime?

I doubt my husband is going to hook up with Angelina, but if he has the chance go for it bud!

Currently I'm without a celebrity crush. I would say former WWE Women's Champion Paige, but she's a little young.

Many of these men feel insecure, and sadly so, in their own sexuality or manhood, so they bash women. Partially, this is perpetuated by our culture.

Check out the National Organization for Men Against Sexism (NOMAS). Male-positive, gay-affirmative, pro-feminist. A fine organization, in its 39th year.

http://site.nomas.org/

No bashing, no objectification. They have task groups on:
Child Custody
Eliminating Racism
Ending Men's Violence
Fathering
Homophobia, Heterosexism & LGBT Affirmative
Men's Health & Mental Health
Men & Spirituality
Men's Studies Association
Sex Trafficking, Pornography & Commercial Sex Industry
Pro-Feminism
Reproductive Rights

I worked with a local pro-feminist men's organization to bring NOMAS' annual national conference to my city in 1991.

in the OP

i have seen another org, maybe it was this one, that is just excellent.

thanks

After all, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and their ilk made their names and fortunes trashing women's groups and the "feminist agenda". It would only seem like "men's rights groups" would be the next evolution of that hatred.

He certainly gets the attention from the ladies.

You make no sense.

maybe it boils down to something that childish?

If you're fishing, you've snagged four of 'em so far. I thought low-hanging fruit had to be picked... but in this case, they've actually jumped into your basket.

I thought it was rotten fish falling off the tree into baskets.
I'm confused. I thought it was rotten fish falling off the tree into baskets.