I thought TPP was a treaty. If it's a treaty, doesn't it need 2/3 to pass? I know they can end debate at 60 votes. Or is it that Obama wants TPA so he can negotiate and the treaty component comes later.

I ask because the vote was 62-38. That's less than 2/3.

Making the bill a done deal.

51 votes to pass. It's a done deal. The media somehow didn't explain this to the People. Gee, I wonder why?

Ohh and BTW, way to go Hillary getting out in front and leading your Party in defeating this horror show. How embarrassng for someone who wants to be the people's "Champion".

... in the Senate. It's STILL gotta get past the House, and I don't think that's gonna be an easy lift.

And I believe that somebody on the RIGHT may have created the meme that we ALL need to beat this deal - send this link to your Republican Congresscritters: http://www.obamatrade.com/.

If this trade deal can be painted with the same "stink" that the right's base believes "infects" Obamacare, maybe we can get their side to kill it for us!

It passed the Senate, needs to pass the house where there could be a lot more problems. Many Dems in the House will not go along, and some Repub don't want the president to have too much power and control over treaties, so it not a done deal.

like the titles say.

They are called "agreements" specifically to get around the 2/3 majority requirement for a Treaty.

As long as the American people allow themselves to be conned, they will continue to be conned.

Treaty vs. Executive Agreement

As explained in greater detail in 11 FAM 721.2, there are two procedures under domestic law through which the United States becomes a party to an international agreement. First, international agreements (regardless of their title, designation, or form) whose entry into force with respect to the United States takes place only after two thirds of the U.S. Senate has given its advice and consent under Article II, section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution are "treaties."

Second, international agreements brought into force with respect to the United States on a constitutional basis other than with the advice and consent of the Senate are "international agreements other than treaties" and are often referred to as "executive agreements." There are different types of executive agreements.
http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/faqs/70133.htm

If it's just an executive agreement (or more specifically a congressional-executive agreement in this case) doesn't that mean a future president can modify or cancel it under similar rules? If so I'm curious what the international legality of that is.

Why can't we come up with a bit of obstruction of our own?

Every Republican who voted voted to advance fast-track. Democrats were split.

Democrats who backed advancing the bill included Michael Bennet of Colorado, Maria Cantwell of Washington, Thomas R. Carper of Delaware, Chris Coons of Delaware, Dianne Feinstein of California, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Tim Kaine of Virginia, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Patty Murray of Washington, Bill Nelson of Florida, Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, Mark Warner of Virginia and Ron Wyden of Oregon.

http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/senate-roll-call-vote-to-advance-fast-track-trade-bill/?dcz=

but it's small consolation!

by most true liberals in San Francisco and other liberal places in CA, this is her way of telling us all to fuck off

The sooner she's out, the better.

It is Boxer.

I'd be happy if Feinstein would retire, because no one seems to have what it takes to Primary her out of office.

My lefty friends in "The City" hate her

Murray was asking for an early endorsement from WA. State chapter of Sierra she was turned down!
Because of TPA

You can't have the US part of the Pacific Rim reject their own damn treaty. Makes me sick.

But like the Indians, I know nothing if I don't know that miles and miles of treaties are made to be broken when they are made with non-white partners. That's American gunboat diplomacy, right?

I apologize for my senators' actions. And I promise to hold their feet to the fire over it.

That says enough right there. They are screwing us big time.

make sure you include the traitors in your missive. They are also screwing us. This is why I give $0 to the DNC. I only support candidates directly now and will continue to do so until I find a party that represents the issues of the 99%.

I'm not sure why we're expected to be on board with this

fighting harder for this than anything else in the last six and a half years.

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go to full on protectionism and investment in manufacturing here.

Which we cant do until we get someone like Bernie in the WH and a few HUNDRED different house and senate members


LONG road

but why just march along in that direction? I see that as very defeatist. If the jobs are gone (and more are leaving) why are we not ensuring that these "agreements" do something for the workers left behind? Instead we focus solely on billionaires and make excuses for their sleezy behavior.

I know you support Bernie, and that's great (I do as well), but please don't fall into their trap of excusing the behavior. We have to fight every bad bill, every time.

Fuck them.

They will turn on you for the big stuff, just like the masters like. DiFi is my corrupt senator and she needs to retire as soon as possible. It is an abomination that she has had the position so long. Damn. And of course, there is McCaskill, that DINO we're always supposed to defend to protect the "majority". How's that working out?

Tells you all you need to know about her right there.

and if anybody is surprised...

Democrats Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray of Washington, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Chris Coons of Delaware and Claire McCaskill of Missouri, plus Republican Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, all voted “aye” to bring the package to the magic 60 vote threshold. They were then followed by Sens. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., and Rob Portman, R-Ohio.

http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/trade-promotion-authority-senate-roll-call-vote/

Will keep looking for a complete list & will update this thread when I find it. Thanks for posting the OP.

(I was guessing it was mostly the same folks from the 14th but I will keep looking to confirm)

opposition term after term. She is not a good senator.

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that her reception by the audience was lukewarm, yet she was re-nominated and re-elected. People know what a loss she is in the Senate but no one dares to challenge her.

Reminds me of the assumptions about Hillary: well, she can win.

Feinstein ran into trouble with the woman who accounted for her fundraising campaign.

We have so many competent potential candidates for the Senate in California. My congressman, Xavier Becerra, is one I like, but he says he does not want to run because of the pressure to raise so much money. What a bad thing our lack of campaign financing laws do to us. I'm sure he is not the only well qualified candidate who does not run because of the financial demands of campaigning in California. It is a huge state. You almost have to have a lot of personal money to run or even think about running statewide.

The House too!

Feinstein is an embarrassment, and she's one of my senators.
Time for a letter to her for all the good it will do.

TPP is not opposed here as much as mid-west manufacturing states. Florida is all tourism and agriculture.

I haven't seen many editorials or debate about TPP except the political junkies.

Let's make it so all the campaign cash in the world will not get them re-elected.

We need to DEMAND Publicly Funded Elections! I am tired of being sold out!

another Texan supporting Bernie! We need to get these dinos out at every level ...

She sucked as San Fran's Mayor and she's proven to suck mightily as a Senator. Ridiculous. Cheap Labor Dems in league with Cheaper Labor Repubs.

confuses me. He was such a good governor.

...the Republicans are for it, I'm against it. I don't remember the CoC ever being for something that was good for the country.

..explain in detail how the whole thing sucks and how Americans need to tell their Congress critter to appeal it.

Ron, there will be repercussions next election cycle.

Steve Novick.

BOTH of my DINOS (Va.) voted for this POS. Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints to go vote.

They only venture into our subterranean living quarters to garner votes and revenues.

Like a good little mushroom

Not sure who the we is but we need to think about it.

Heard Sherrod I think on the radio be dismissive about protests, that liberals like to do.

I think it was him and I am sure whoever it was said you have to CALL your reps and you have to write to them and you have to tell them they are getting booted if they dont do it.

or dont not do it etc

You have no clue as to how often I call my reps. I happen to have Rep. Pete Olson and I do contact his office. It is pretty insulting for you to suggest that other activists on a political message board are not involved.

is really nothing to do with contacting reps.

I heard Brown say protesting doesnt work, which was not directed at anyone in particular.

If anything my point is for the most part contacting the reps, which is all we really can do, doesnt work often enough for us to find ourselves in this mess.

I dont know that I even agree with him when he says we have to make the contact, I was just telling you what he said.

I honestly believe that other than a small handful, Brown may be one, Bernie obviously is, they are bought and paid for already.

She serves herself and her corporate military masters.

Murray is not surprising either just disappointing.

Because final passage will only require 51 votes these craven asses will vote no and blather on the campaign trail that they had nothing to do with the TPP. And the sheeple will buy it.

will have those powers.

Bernie is the only announced candidate I would trust to negotiate this deal, or scuttle it in the process.

an earful from me for quite some time..He voted for "TPA" so when it becomes TPP he'll vote NO so he can tell "US" his constituients that he voted NO when he's up for re-election. Called his office 3 times to and can't even get through to leave a message.

Make sure EVERYONE understands that this is Fast Track and if YOUR Senator voted YEA he/she has essentially voted YEA for TPP. They are going to tell their constituents who don't follow politics closely that they only voted this way so they could "open it up for debate!" But THE DEBATE isn't what this vote really is, it IS a vote for TPP because this vote needed a Super Majority, the next vote will only NEED 51 votes to pass!

A fine line of distinction that they'll use to their advantage... I have some very "fine words" I would to call them right now but don't want to be too nasty, but use your imagination, it's not hard!!!

BERNIE SANDERS, this SHIT must STOP! Okay so I used ONE word!!!

effects of corporate money on our political system, as evidenced by this vote. We can take him up on his offer to fight that poisonous money, or not. I am taking him up on that offer, he will need all the help he can get as they will go after him when begins to become a threat to their scheme.

I truly wish that he wins the presidency, but there is a part of me that feels that the PTB will not allow him near the Whitehouse, him nor Warren. (think rigged voting machines or even assassination) The PTB are desperate to keep control of us. I really feel that our one chance to turn things around is mass protest by tens of thousands for months at a time (French reveloution style), a national strike to shut the economy down since our greatest weapon as a citizen is our wallets and pocketbooks. Even if we don't turn things around we can at least say we put up one hell of a fight and didn't just sit back and bitch from behind our keyboards. That alone will put the fear of God into the PTB and maybe think twice before they keep screwing us over.

And you are correct, it will massive ongoing protests and boycotts, worldwide. It has started in Europe, but needs to be Global, THEY are Global and now I believe the people will have to be also.

However, Bernie himself I am sure, is aware of what is going on. I doubt he is running without knowing the risks. And I also think there are good people in our government trying to fight all this.

We are definitely at a crossroads right now, more people ARE becoming aware and that is their greatest fear. OWS scared them so bad they showed their hand by brutalizing peaceful protesters, globally too AND revealing the militarization of the police, again seen in Ferguson.

There are more of us than of them, and things like this have happened before in history. And the people have prevailed. Hopefully we still have enough power to do it peacefully.

Sorry, but I hate meaningless thread titles.

God damn it.

from St. Ernulphus:

"May he be cursed in living, in dying. May he be cursed in eating and drinking, in being hungry, in being thirsty, in fasting, in sleeping, in slumbering, in walking, in standing, in sitting, in lying, in working, in resting, in fucking, in pissing, in shitting, and in blood-letting.' May he be cursed in all the faculties of his body. May he be cursed inwardly and out-wardly. May he be cursed in the hair of his head. May he be cursed in his brains, and in his vertex, in his temples, in his forehead, in his ears, in his eye-brows, in his cheeks, in his jaw-bones, in his nostrils, in his foreteeth and grinders, in his lips, in his throat, in his shoulders, in his wrists, in his arms, in his hands, in his fingers.

May he be damn'd in his mouth, in his breast, in his heart and purtenance, down to the very stomach. May he be cursed in his reins, and in his groin, in his thighs, in his penis, in his bollocks, and in his hips, and in his knees, his legs, and feet, and toe-nails."

Now that's cursing the god damn fools who want this stinking treaty to pass.

that's like the gun humpers getting upset over penis analogies

It just makes one seem small to have to start out a post like that. Its insulting to many people and serves NO purpose

it's fine with me, as it immediately drives home the author's disgust, anger and frustration

To show that he's disgusted angry and frustrated.
There are many folks on DU that are a lot more religious than I am and I'd bet some of them are offended by crap like that. But I saw a thread go crazy a week ago simply because someone used the phrase "grow a pair". Oh, THAT was offensive to a bunch of people!

"grow a pair" insinuates that male body parts are required for courage - which we ALL know is complete bullshit

Like you said Pitt's comment didnt bother you, I thought the whining about "grow a pair" was ridiculous. Seems its fine to curse god around here but a stupid saying thats a joke gets everyone in a tizzy. There's a number of silly sayings that easily offend some around here. If I, or any religious people, shouldnt have a problem with GD, then maybe everyone else should quit moaning about nonsense like that

over and OUT

I never made a statement that he was wrong for being ticked off about the tpp.

LMAO

Why not just scream "Blasphemer" and then we can all discuss burning the heretic at the stake?

Ever seen how little it takes to get a hide? Just depends on who you piss off

That's just for those of us who thought this country still had a smidgen of democracy still left.


Cher

They learned nothing from NAFTA, but then again, American workers are, sadly, a low priority on both sides of the aisle. Very disappointing.

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may as well have a list handy to throw darts at and so forth. And most importantly vote out of office. What good are they if they side w/the enemy?

here's the updated list from http://ourfuture.org/20150521/these-13-democrats-are-helping-rush-fast-track-through-the-senate

If people don't understand that Washington DC doesn't care about them now they probably never will.

How much more does the middle class have to lose?

Clinton and NAFTA made Unions basically impotent and near obsolete. The money for both parties now comes from wall street. Both parties answer to the same money men. And people wonder why important things never change?

Repost- People should have listened to other people like Sir James Goldsmith. Now it's too late.

Watch Sir Goldsmith have a go at the despicable Laura D'Andrea Tyson, one of the Clinton "Free Trade" mafia.

Watch as the future was predicted IN 1994 by someone with some common sense:

We are hearing all of the same damned talking points all over again now with the TPP that we did with NAFTA.

The biggest lie that stood out for me was the bullshit about American companies increasing jobs at home since they have now opened up foreign markets by outsourcing there.

Bull..fucking...shit! It never happened. It won't happen. Give them the ability to outsource their support staff and manufacturing to where it is dirt cheap labor, and these corporations will never ever bring it back home. Period.

Fucking disgusting lies, and just because there is a fucking D after Obama's name means that rank & file ignorant Democrats are falling for this shit....yet again!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

"Bucket"!

11% of the people are for this free trade deal and the Senate delivers big time for those 11%.

75% of Americans are against it.

Guess who history will blame for this disaster should the TPP ever pass: Barack Obama & the Democratic party.

The sell-outs are not progressives...are they even democrats?

Sometimes you want to scream...because you knew the TPP was going to pass...no matter how many people were against the damn thing..

There has been much conjecture regarding that. On one level, all it takes to be a "Democrat" is to register as such, or in places where one does not register, simply claim to be - it relies completely on self proclamation. On the other hand, being a Democrat can be said to be a collection of shared political ideas regarding approach to governance, but this shared vision can change with time.

Based on the proclaimed beliefs of the majority of Democrats regarding fiscal values, especially as it concerns labor and the lower classes, such representatives are not Democrats, but rather Republicans but with 80% less insanity at least in the second definition.

Unfortunately as there is no alternative at this time for labor and the lower classes and the collective vision of Democratic office holders (not so much the voters) is currently changing, becoming more and more entrenched in a vision where capital and the profits of those that share their gains with those elected Democrats is all that guide their actions, meaning that both parties are selling us out and govern solely at the pleasure of a very small fraction of the country.

We have no party anymore, not in the sense that you are asking about, the question has become moot - if one wants representation, one must earn millions if not billions of dollars to be represented.

Unless we replace the elected Democrats with people that share the Democratic values of the constituancy all that will remain is the name and the self declaration of what is just another flavor of Republican.

It is all over but the shouting as they say, it will take a revolution at this point to gain representation for the people to counter the representation for the select few that carry most of the money, there are many kinds of revolution, lets hope first and foremost that it will be a peaceful one

More importantly lets hope there even is one, because too many of us are growing poorer by the day and as this progresses the level of poverty itself will become ever more Dickensian even as the number of impoverished becomes so vast that it will be the lot of nearly all of us that are not among the very select few with so much that are currently the only ones being represented.

Very insightful examination of the problem...everyone calling themselves "Democrat" should read this..

"Fuck these people."

Senator Cantwell is a Senator for the state of Washington.
The trade agreement will benefit the ports in Washington.
In fact, every port on the West Coast will benefit from more trade.

So, your "fuck these people" attitude displays your own level of ignorance and fear of the future.

Ports? You mean people operating cranes unloading shipping containers. That benefit?

How fucking short sighted!

No jobs here ...........

Doesn't the bill now go to the House of Representatives, where they don't have near the support that is needed to pass the bill? As I understand it, John Boehner, needs about 30 more Democrats to be in favor of it to pass the bill, and that is not even close. Here's hoping that I'm right about this.

Really disappointing to say the least. The facts are TPP will further lower manufacturing jobs, create a race to the bottom with lower wages, endanger the environment and leave nations' laws in the hands of tribunals.