Pakistan is not an ally but a country we have an extremely complicated and delicate relationship with. And they have a difficult relationship with the Taliban. I don't know whether Hersh's account is accurate or not, but it wouldn't be surprising if they agreed to letting us take out bin Laden as long as they could be viewed as uninvolved in the operation.

And 99% of Americans don't care -- they're just glad bin Laden is out of the picture.

It may be that only a few members of ISI knew where Bin Ladin was to begin with, and that only one of them decided to cut a deal.

eg http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6668504 and also this http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6658067
Seems it was perhaps an open secret but surely not something only a few members of ISI knew?

Actually this is a perfect example. Look at the sourcing of all of those.

"smear democrats" central.

Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 08:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Jesus fuck, I've never seen such hysterical need to shoot ourselves in the foot as in the past few months.

When the 'evidence' is as thin as Hersh's, it's best to ignore it. He has ruined the reputation he built up in the past, same way that Carl Bernstein did.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

come on lets do the whole rundown on those journalists who jumped under the bus,
meanwhile the lying prostitutes on nationalized noise get a perma pass on board.

whats that smell?

(I stupidly said 'Woodward' instead of 'Bernstein' but I edited my previous post. D'oh!)

Hersh has no evidence of his claim, only the word of an anonymous retiree who had nothing to do with the hunt for bin Laden.

The vast majority of journalists in this country would consider that hearsay and unworthy of publication. There is a reason the New York Times turned down the 'opportunity' to publish this 'expose'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

Also The Washington Post. But your point is quite well-taken.

And we're too short-sighted to realize just how bad that will turn out.

This is one of the many many incidents of lying to us, which is shredding our Gov't credibility.

Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch are 2 examples which come to mind..both incidents were proven to be lies which were used to support our wars in the Middle East.

At what point do we know what to believe?

Corruption brings Just Us. And if anything, the War on Terror has helped the 1-percent get wealthier and wealthier and more and more powerful politically to the point where "political debate" sounds like fascism for the feeble minded.

"Tell me lies... tell me sweet little lies..."

Either a citizen is for truth and transparency in government, or for obfuscation and treachery.

No matter where it leads, a passion for truth can only benefit the people. No matter where the truth leads. No matter where the truth leads.

And those who would cover for liars are deceivers themselves.

any proof. It's a good story but as far as we've seen so far, there are no facts.

to explain why the government telling the truth doesn't matter. Repugnant.

Ostrich boots, Ostrich steaks, Ostrich feather skirts, Ostrich sausage, Ostrich love dolls, etc, etc.

as if there was any truth and justice left to bury.

To quote the author of the article of the OP (from another article) "Other sources likewise confirmed at least the broad outlines of Hersh’s counter-narrative, and as they did, the pushback against Hersh went, as Adam Johnson at FAIR put, from 'this is a lie' to 'what’s the big deal, we knew this all along'"

The "what's the big deal" meme that posters in this thread are now pushing is truly pathetic. As if it doesn't matter that neither torture nor CIA or NSA investigations led to finding where bin Laden was living.

I can name two right off the top of my head...

The Vietnam & the Iraq War...

And it's important... because it left MILLIONS dead or maimed.

And we are still suffering from both.

Guantanamo.

Bay of Pigs

Tonkin Gulf

Iran-Contra

etc etc etc etc tc etc

Repugnant to the extreme.

I don't care for the government stretching the truth, but who cares how we ultimately got the information. For all we know, God told Obama.

The US government claims it sifted through reams of intelligence data and trackings in order to hunt down and kill Bin Laden.

If it is proven that this narrative is false, then one of the justifications of enhanced surveillance is proven false. The blanket collection of intelligence data that violates the 4th Amendment has no reason to exist. Why? Because it doesn't work. It doesn't give us good intel. It doesn't help us find and kill the bad guys. It is illegal and unconstitutional.

Hersh has nothing but the word of an anonymous retiree who had nothing to do with the hunt for bin Laden. That's nothing.

That doesn't even pass the smell test for a 'what if' scenario.

And really, you want to prove a narrative false? You do realize that's expecting someone to prove a negative, right?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

Hearsay from an anonymous retiree who had nothing to do with the raid.

Thin gruel, indeed. I have just as much evidence, apparently, as Hersh: hearsay.

I can hardly wait for his expose on Vince Foster.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

uh huh. When you win a pulitzer get back to me. LOL

And it's not just Republicans lying and rewriting history. I hope it is not true. I may need to turn independent if it is.

Otherwise, they'd turn their bullshit detectors back on.

You may need to kick it up a little beyond the level of "I know you are but what am I". Oh, and don't bother with the tack "it's so sad what's happened to Hersh over the years". Plenty of substandard liars and fixers have already tried that one, and it doesn't work.

Without further ado, I'll turn things over to you so that your bullshit detection symposium can get started.

Come back if you ever feel ready.

when lacking facts or evidence, use the old, "pfft! whatever" tactic. Brilliant, sheer brilliance!

Why would anyone want to chase someone like you down any path you want to go down?

well played. LOL

.... our government tells us about the "terror war", and furthermore I'm not even that sure bin Laden had anything at all to do with 911.

I don't know if Hersh's story is right but if I had to pick a side I'd guess there is more truth in his story than in the official narrative. I mean, just where he was located is hard to explain away. Very hard.

I did not make or break his reputation, this is Hersh's reward for nor always being correct. He can imply a government conspiracy but he has to follow through with fact which can be proven. His source is not proof.

I do remember a PDB that warned a former President about bin Laden's intent, as well as reports of his predecessor's team briefing him on such. I've read books about bin Laden's animosity toward, and means and intent to carry out an attack on this country. I read many articles describing how he used his vast wealth and influence to recruit others to his cause, under the pretense of jihad.

When was all that debunked?

Hersh has been losing it for a while

Peter Gelling
Global Post on Aug 9, 2011

The whole story of how Osama bin Laden was found to be hiding out in Abottabad, Pakistan — recreated in incredible detail in The New Yorker — was made up, according to R.J. Hillhouse, a prominent security analyst and author.

According to Hillhouse, who attributes the news to her sources inside the intelligence comunity, a Pakistan intelligence officer came forward with the information of bin Laden's whereabouts in exchange for the $25 million reward and U.S. citizenship for his family. The informant, Hillhouse says, claimed that the Saudis had been paying the Pakistani military and intelligence agency, ISI, to shelter bin Laden under house arrest.

"The C.I.A. and friends then set about proving that OBL was indeed there," Hillhouse writes. "And they did."

Hillhouse says that the United States then approached Pakistan, which agreed to cooperate on the raid. A cover story that bin Laden was killed in a drone attack was designed but had to be scrapped at the last minute when that lone Black Hawk spun to the ground. A new story, of a courier, was used in its place.

"The cooperation was why there were no troops in Abottabad," she writes. "It had always seemed very far-fetched to me that a helicopter could crash and later destroyed in an area with such high military concentration without the Pakistanis noticing."

CONTINUED...

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/dispatches-afpak/the-story-how-bin-laden-was-found-fiction

Thank you, Maedhros! Important to know there is an incredible amount more to the story than has been reported. Gosh, if we keep learning stuff, we might want to have one of them democracies people used to talk about before 9-11.

It's the way their brains are wired.

The only reason there is this level of resistance from ostensible 'liberals' to Hersh's reporting is because Obama is in office. Period. End of line.

Remember Richard (PNAC/Another Pearl Harbor) Perle? Just after September 11 and the Washington-Wall Street axis of war profiteering was heating up, Perle hit up Adnan (Iran-Contra/BCCI) Khashoggi for $100 million to make his new "Trireme Partnerships" take off.



Khashoggi's money would help launch the Carlyle Group-like investment group Perle founded. The petromoney was not for arms, directly. It was for investing in companies that were going to be making a killing off of homeland security related areas.

Interesting selling point: Perle already had secured financing from in from Boeing and some other bigwigs like Henry Kissinger.

One of the most important articles The New Yorker ever published:

Hersh's story is as half baked as the truthers/birthers.

by a regime it's easy to assume they're just dead and buried in secret

in this case, apparently not

so he was captive as well as admittedly unarmed and surrendering when shot; even more worrying is that we aligned with AQ (offer not valid in some countries) after the death: it's more of a leveraged buyout!

Really? C'mon.

Multiple independent sources have corroborated parts of Hersh's story.