Seems appropriate considering the National Holiday this weekend.

us living in poverty. Goldman-Sachs and the Wall Street Gang have no feelings for the poor among us.

Support Sen Sanders the candidate for the 99% and not Wall Street's candidate.

If this is true, and I hope to hell isn't, his life will be destroyed by the these people.

The very fact that he still wants to fight the good fight means a lot to me. The people must not let the powerful Oligarchs destroy our democracy although, according to the Princeton study, it's too late. Those with power will not easily give it up. It should not take rocket science to understand that the wealthy Oligarchs want money and will get it however they can, even if it means more Americans die in poverty. It may be too late to change this terrible system of greed and corruption but we must fight.

Thanks!

so many reasons to be satisfied, if you want to embrace them.

the little shine we had left.

Even the Nobel Peace Prize has lost a bit of its lustre. Freedoms have continued to be curtailed and the monied interests have continued to buy more and more of the country and its government.

Can anyone suggest that we have become more transparent in the last 6+ years?

We now practice most of our thuggery from unmanned drones and air strikes. A few boots on the ground to radio coordinates.

We have infiltrated every country's telecommunications structure (including our own) and won't give up our vacuuming just because some legislative hurdle was erected. Why not just put James Clapper in for President? Skip the folderol of elections.

Obama's doing.

But the administration look bad is only convincing to negative-nationalists.

eom

I had high hopes but I truly believe now that reality is that it was 2 steps forward and 5 back.

Been doing that way too long. Enough.

I'm with Bernie to the bitter end.

Please answer the question.

Worth a shot though.

regardless of the apologists.

However, if you are measuring him as a moderate Republican or Republican, he's been pretty great.

from people when they're called 'haters' of the president. Waaaa Waaaa stop calling us haters and so on....blah blah blah. And yet when ANYONE says ANYTHING remotely positive about the president out comes the apologist card, the authoritarian card the bog'er care (whatever the hell that is)....many more, I'm not going to list them all.

So here's the thing how about on a DEMOCRATIC site when someone says, 'hey I kinda like the president, I think he's done ok' they don't get called the same names the would on a repuke site. Especially if y'all are gonna whine about ONE insult---hater. I mean really does saying...........^^^^^^^^^^^ really make someone an apologist? Or just someone that has a different opinion that yourself?

For the record, I like President Obama, I think he's a pretty likable guy. I don't agree with everything he's done. I wish he'd done more in some areas and not done other things.

It is a definition used by many to describe those who simply will not accept any criticism of a politician and think that politician can do no wrong. It is an apt description for many on this board. Obama is a self described moderate Republican. His policies are in many ways worse than Bush and even what his supporters call his legacy, the ACA, is a conservative health plan. He hasn't fought for Democratic policy for most of his two terms and now he's fighting the hardest he ever has for the TPP and his buddies on that are the GOP. So yes, anyone who cannot fathom not one criticism of him is an apologist, and anyone who thinks he's been a good Dem president is way off the mark, imo.

To answer your question, no, 'apologist' is not an apt term for someone with a different opinion than myself. I didn't use it in that way at all. As I said, it's a common descriptive term used in politics for those who excuse and defend every single thing the man does.

'Hater' is just a term that is used as an attempt to dismiss the criticism. It is used against people who take the time to post informative and reasoned critical analyses. No one on here actually hates Obama, but many on here are disgusted by his policy. It is usually used by people who do not refute the criticism, but just want to dismiss it by labeling the poster a 'hater'. It is silly and immature.

Now 'Obamabot' would be close to 'hater'. You'll note I don't use that term though.

For the record, I think Obama is a pretty likable guy as well. He's funny and charming. His policies however, are too centrist/corporate/conservative, unconstitutional and now with the TPP, downright dangerous and despicable. I wish he'd done a lot less in a lot of areas (not outBushing Bush in drone strikes, domestic spying and whistleblower prosecutions for example) and a lot more in others.

isn't allowed here, it's usually hidden by a jury. It's been used very, very few times. I think it was allowed to stand once and that person has since been banned if I remember correctly. Apologist, however is thrown around all the time it's not just people that think he can do no wrong. As I said, if you go into any thread that's critical of the president and say anything nice...you get

When I say something positive about the president no one calls me an apologist. That's because I'm critical of him as well.

Apologist is for those who simply cannot stand to hear any criticism of Obama. And let's face it, there is plenty to criticize. Look, there are people defending him spying on Americans more than BushCo did. Defending him prosecuting more whistleblowers than all other presidents combined. Defending him offering up SS to the GOP. These actions were wrong when BushCo did them and they are wrong when Obama does it. But there are people who will defend it all just because Obama did it. He can do no wrong in their eyes. They are even defending him on the TPP. That is outrageous. So yes, they are apologists. That's just a fact. If you or anyone else thinks that's a slur, well then they can look to themselves and figure out why they have a blind loyalty to a politician that is putting forth moderate (sometimes not so moderate) Republican policies.

Critical thinkers look at the policy, not the man, and they criticize the policy. There is no hate there, other than the policy.

'Hater' just isn't the same as 'apologist'. Your false equivalency that both sides are doing the same thing is just that, false.

And you say Obamabot is "not allowed here" yet 'ODS' is left standing all the time. 'Hater' is left all the time. Just thought I'd point that out. Not sure why you are complaining about 'apologist' and trying to say I was whining from the beginning. I'm not the one who's doing the "whining" here and you are the one who started this with that statement against me even going so far as saying "Waaaa Waaaa stop calling us haters and so on....blah blah blah".

So why did you start this whole exchange and why are you trying to paint a false picture of me as you did?

which I wasn't doing.

So my question stands... why did you decide to start this whole exchange with me using that?

And no, 'apologist' simply isn't the same thing as 'hater', you repeating that it is doesn't make it so. Apologist stands for something in the political world and is backed up on DU by a discussion of policy. 'Hater' is internet slang used to dismiss any and all criticism and is pretty much never accompanied by any discussion of policy. There's no rebuttal, just 'hater', as if that means the critical post means nothing. However, the critical posts on here are mostly substantiated with many facts and references. The apologists generally don't offer any of that up, though there are some that do, but they are still defending policies that were indefensible on DU when BushCo did them.

And that is the crux of it, apologists defend things Obama does just because he is Obama, even though they hated that sort of thing when BushCo did it. Critics of Obama criticized the same policy under BushCo. They are talking about policy, apologists are talking about a man.

used in the same manner as swooner, cheerleader, etc. which it is here on DU--I don't know why you're blocking that part of my statement out. I will say this one more time, it's not just used for those that refuse ANY criticism of the president it's used whenever any of these threads pop up and ANYTHING positive is said about the president.

I will agree that I've any criticism labeled has 'hate' and that I do not agree with either. But as I said this is a two sided coin. On DU apologist is used as a pejorative, it's used in the same manner as authoritarian, swooner, cheerleader, etc.

That's your answer. Like it or lump it, makes no difference to me. I'm done with this now.

If you don't like political descriptions I can't help you.

I agree cheerleader, swooner, are used more as a pejorative. Unfortunately, while I avoid those or anything similar 99.9% of the time, they are accurate. There are OPs where all it is is people fawning over pic of Obama. As if this were some teen fanzine. That's just wrong when we're supposed to be critical thinkers discussing policy. You don't see the flip side of that on here.

That is what is sickening and those are the people who refuse to hear any facts that are critical against their idol, yes their idol. It is about the man for them, not the policy, and that is why they cannot bear to hear the criticism, they are emotionally invested in him. And yes, they are apologists. Because they defend anything he does, even the indefensible. They don't have to do that, they don't have to be apologists. They choose to be.

Lol~

They tried to give me a hide here for a gif, hoyt.

Hmmmmm~ Shows they have nothing.

for ridicule.

you don't think I'm keeping a secret?

The movie analogy is flawed since movies are a marketed product that the makers want people to know about so they'll spend their money on it where as the TPP is something that Obama was attempting to slip by us unnoticed.

But in reality there actually are movies people know about but the contents are secret. That's why they have non-disclosure agreements.

Someone I know worked on a Marvel TV show and had to sign one every time they passed through a doorway, there were cameras in every room... why? Because they wanted to keep it a secret. Not the show itself, but the contents.

The trade deal is like a closed, locked, prohibited book. No can open it and read it. Capeesh?

available at least 90 days before Congress takes it up. And, you can read additional objectives it must meet, or Congress can revoke the "fast-track" authority.

My bet is that you -- and 99.99999999% of those who seem to know it's bad -- won't read it. Jeeeeeez.

Thanks!

Most of all, do your own research and look for the truth.

I mean a link to where the admin has published the actual details of the agreement for the public.

Thanks!

done on your own. Maybe you'll actually learn something.

So it's up to you to provide that link.

I know it doesn't exist so why would I go looking for it?

I'm SHOCKED!!!

We know the title to that movie but not what it is about...that makes it a secret.
Titles tell you nothing...like the Patriot act had nothing to do with patriotism.

Must he they don't like the author, Obama.

And most people know that NAFTA did not produce anything but lower wages and shit for jobs...and this is just bigger.
You can put it off to "Obama hater" all you want, but the truth is out there and people see it.
And Obama is not the author, he is the faciltator...the salesman.

Apparently you don't know anyone who lost a job to outsourcing.

The facts are that before one person working a job could support a family, now it takes two or more jobs to do that...unless you are a Wall Street stock trader.

I know people who have jobs due to trade, including people in Mexico.

I do know of people who probably had to look for other jobs because their jobs - like customer service - were likelt sent overseas for awhile. But it wasn't NAFTA, and they found new jobs because they had skills or could be restrained. I support benefits and training for anyone displaced.

Come on...

shutting down long before NAFTA, mainly because they couldn't compete with modern facilities and production methodologies. It's sad, kind of like growing old. I feel for people who thought they could leave high school, get a job, and stay there until retirement.

Just no.

Why is almost everything manufactured in China or other parts of Asia now? Not for the reason you stated above. You are in deep denial or lost on the internets.

American companies couldn't compete, without protection. Problem is, people still wanted cheaper products. American factories couldn't produce.

In less than a year from now Hillary will begin losing to another little known Senator who will go on to become President.

I wish that the Clinton's and the Bushes would come out and say that they are BFF's and get it done with. Stop all the tap dancing.

But we'll never know the answer to either think, will we?

Republican congress, particularly the crazy right wing version of Republicans that we have now, is going to turn around and nominate and elect Sanders.

Hilarious!

I get the impression you don't like Mr. Kucinich, why is that? Too liberal for a conservative like you? Perhaps you are in the wrong party.

As for the crazy right wing congress, voters often have a tendency to counter an excess in one direction by favoring the other direction in the next election. If you followed politics at all you would have already noticed this.

Given the betrayals and false promises, Obama might not fare to well in a re-match against an actual Democrat unlike himself.

Obviously the 2014 midterms show us the truth of this.

and then clarified that he is a New Dem. He even went so far as to say he would be a Reagan era moderate Republican.

While your links are accurate, it does not convey the full picture.

He did give beautiful speeches and debate rhetoric on progressive issues like supporting unions, being against the war on terror, being against unfettered national surveillance which started under Bush, the public option (he was against Clinton's mandated option), etc. etc. etc.. Hope and Change was the marketing.

The characterization is accurate and those are his own words to describe himself. The facts do not lie.

Coalition.

So they can use whatever letters of the alphabet they want in their little hate filled "Trojan Horse" and "Fucking pos used car salesman" club. The Nominee is going to want to have the President campaigning with them and for them. They won't be running from his Accomplishments while in Office.

snip//

"According to the latest CNN/ORC poll, the Obama resurgence is being fueled by the growing economy. Fifty-two percent of respondents called the U.S. economy very or somewhat good while 48% said the economy was very or somewhat poor. The President’s approval rating has increased with 18-29-year-olds (57%), women (51%), Democrats (88%), and liberal Democrats (97%).

snip//

Many supporters of the President will view his increasing approval numbers as Obama finally getting credit for the economic turnaround after pulling the country back from the brink of a potential depression when he took office, but these numbers could foreshadow a Democratic strong point in 2016. If the economy keeps growing, Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, will be able to run on maintaining and expanding the Obama economy.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/04/21/president-obama.html

And, your post isn't a "diversion".. it's a fact.. they can't handle.

ZZZ

I asked where they are being jailed for speaking out. Have you seen the arrests? I have not.

Seems like you got crickets too, bsis.

The THREAT of being arrested or what is implied with security guards telling them that they must turn over their cell phones, etc. before they go in and look at documents is very intimidating. And let us not forget that this was being negotiated by corporate reps and the Trade Representative Group (that has been known to have corrupted corporate points of view and mixed allegiances too) at a time in 2012 when lawmaker access to TPP documents was even more restricted to the point that you not only had congressmen like Pete DeFazio complaining about it, but Senator Wyden as well as Republican Darryl Issa complaining about it too then.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/06/international-treaty-negotiated-in-secret-even-hiding-the-terms-from-congressmen-with-every-reason-to-see-them-threatens-to-destroy-national-sovereignty.html

It is Obama's secret trade agreement. It will forever more be known as Obama's secret trade agreement.

Tin foil? [URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

yet.

in order to defend your precious. It's been on the greatest page of DU. Here are some links:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150317/05052630338/ustr-pushes-congress-to-approve-trade-deals-threatens-reps-with-criminal-prosecution-if-they-tell-public-whats-them.shtml

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/16/obama-trade-meeting_n_6881058.html

https://www.popularresistance.org/us-trade-rep-threatens-congress-with-prosecution/

Yes, a great example of willful ignorance mixed with a heavy dose of Kool-Aid.

So what facts from the corporate bundogle have you heard anyone in congress divulge ?
Oh that's right you haven't
Maybe someone would if they had amazing memories,and we're willing to go to jail.
And what do you get for all the diversions you and the other posters put out?
Barry playing with the wing nuts and you look the other way.
Wow just wow

time. But if you are a duly elected representative of the people, complete with the appropriate security clearances, you can go to jail for making crib notes of this (supposedly "not secret&quot agreement, written and read by hundreds of corporate crooks, some of which I am certain have no such clearances.

It's some fucked up shit from the "most transparent" President ever.

On Sun May 24, 2015, 12:52 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Lol~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6719740

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Mocking people with real concerns. Is any hurtful posts ok these days?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun May 24, 2015, 01:00 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Come on now, people. Stop using the jury system for personal problems. Thanks.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This entire thread is a load of shit. I vote to leave and I think the alerter can dish it out, but sure can't take it. I hope the admins look into this frivolous and stupid alert. Here's two "words" for you - Grow up.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's not contributing to the discussion, but I see no reason to hide
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: For fucks sake, it's a Tina Fey gif. is right, this alert is ridiculous and if there is a hide then this was a bad jury. Sometimes DU...
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes, it's unsightly, but can we please stop trying all the time to silence anyone with an opposing opinion?

FFS

0-7

Mirt and the Admins get it. Good.

ucr~

yay!







ps:

.. good thing he didn't say 4-letter words!

While I think Bernie would have a much better record on these things, I didn't understand why it was alerted.

Not a Bernie supporter, though will vote for the dem that wins, thanks for taking my back. Guess what, I will take yours too.

Thank you for being respectful to Bernie. I hope both candidates will stay positive.,