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Legal question re: Duggars (Original Post) Kalidurga May 2015 OP
That is a very interesting way to look at it. I would love avebury May 2015 #1
Well, in some states child abuse has to be reported no matter what. leftofcool May 2015 #2
I'm certainly no legal expert in any possible way, but TorchTheWitch May 2015 #3
Well the link is why I have this question Kalidurga May 2015 #4
that's why it seems so ambiguous TorchTheWitch May 2015 #9
I believe the Child Maltreatment Act SickOfTheOnePct May 2015 #5
Thank you Kalidurga May 2015 #6
From RAINN i.e. Arkansas mandated reporters justiceischeap May 2015 #7
The law wasn't in effect at the time n/t SickOfTheOnePct May 2015 #8

avebury

(10,952 posts)
1. That is a very interesting way to look at it. I would love
Sun May 24, 2015, 06:32 AM
May 2015

to know the answer to your question as well.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
2. Well, in some states child abuse has to be reported no matter what.
Sun May 24, 2015, 07:00 AM
May 2015

In Oklahoma for instance, if you are a parent and you child comes to you saying they have been abused, you have to report it to the authorities. I think it is the same here in Kentucky You can take the problem to your church, your elders or whoever but you better report it to the police first. Teachers are always obligated to report but I don't think being a home schooling teacher qualifies you under any state laws as a teacher, unless you have a certification. The laws to look at the state laws on how abuse must be reported.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
3. I'm certainly no legal expert in any possible way, but
Sun May 24, 2015, 07:40 AM
May 2015

I would think that a home schooling parent is not in the same category as a hired teacher in a school. Even parents aren't on the list of mandatory reporters which I find monstrous as it is usually the parent/s that are the abusers or the one/s that cover up the known abuse, the one/s that disbelieve the victim has been abused, deny that what the child suffered was abuse, and are permitted by law to teach their children that sexual abuse is not abuse, the child is the one responsible for the abuse, etc.

In reading the link you provided I'm horrified that religious sects are PERMITTED to allow abuse of children and others even those within their direct care if that religious sect denies such abuse that is recognized as a crime by every state in the country is abuse at all or denies that the abuse should be dealt with criminally or that the victims should be granted safety from their abusers or any sort of therapy for their abuse. Such monstrous religious sects should be outlawed or at least be mandated to recognize what the entire country recognizes as abuse and that it is a crime. If individuals for some ridiculous religious reason believe that they can pray away their own abuse or not recognize abuse to be abuse when it comes to their own individual selves, bully for them, but any other person in their care whether a child or any other family member, religious sect member, etc. unable to make that choice for themselves hell fucking NO. This country needs to recognize the difference between a religious organization and sick cult. There is no question whatsoever that this Quiverfull "religious" sect is a sick cult that teaches females that they are entirely invaluable as a human being to the point of making them brood mares and chattel to be subjugated and abused by males. The whole REASON they claim it is religious belief is because they have long since learned that our fucked up laws concerning religion excuse such foul beliefs and behaviors to the hideous detriment of the females unlucky enough to be trapped in it.

A number of months ago I recall watching a news segment or some sort of brief special program online that a particular religious sect in a particular state that I can't recall denied any form of health care for its members including the children of its members was legally permitted resulting in horrific suffering and death of children even in the cases where the deathly ill children themselves desperately wanted medical treatment, and the law had to deny it from them because the child's parents didn't "believe" in medical health care. I sobbed through the whole thing. Even though the religious sect was very small so many children had died unnecessarily and with incredible suffering that their graveyard was full of headstones of a frightening number of dead children just from this small religious sect. God, I'll never ever forget the horror of the camera panning all the headstones of those poor dead children.

Absolutely fucking monstrous that the LAW allows this and can do NOTHING to provide wanted medical treatment to suffering ill children because their fucked in the head parents believe that medical health care is a sin. Denying health care to a child that WANTS it and NEEDS it to end their suffering and eventual death than this IS criminal abuse, and those children need to be taken away from such fucked in the head "parents" and provided necessary medical care. The law ALLOWING it just because they label it a religious belief is utterly fucking SICK and DERANGED. These absolutely insane "religious" cults that unquestionably cause enormous suffering and even death to innocents at the hands of the "believers" being legally permitted to abuse and kill innocents is a derangement of the laws of this country. If the law recognizes XYZ as abuse and even criminal abuse than why the hell does anyone waiving the "religious belief" flag exempt them of that abuse?

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
4. Well the link is why I have this question
Sun May 24, 2015, 07:51 AM
May 2015

In no place does it say that parents who home school are specifically not teachers. If someone is teaching even if it is without a licence they have the same authority over the child as a teacher. The power differential is going to be there regardless of what the law says about that person's certification. If I was DA I would push the issue, because the wording is not there to exempt home school teachers.

I am with you on parents not being mandated reporters. That should be fixed yesterday. How can parents not be mandated reporters? That is seriously f'd up. Nor should religion be allowed to be used as a shield for criminals especially criminals who abuse children and rape. The medical stuff is messed up as well, but I don't want to go on that tangent right now. I am still seething from all of this.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
9. that's why it seems so ambiguous
Sun May 24, 2015, 09:07 AM
May 2015

A home schooling parent is still a parent first, and with parents not being mandated reporters I'm not seeing that a home schooling parent would be considered a mandated reporter as a hired teacher of children that aren't their own would be. I would also think that after all the years that this has been known by law enforcement had that angle been available it would have been used. Right in the report it is said numerous times that the victims in the family were home schooled by their mother. Oddly, every single one said that spelling was their favorite subject and math their least favorite. Every one of them also said that some specific game I don't recall the name of was their favorite activity among other parroted things they all said. No question in my mind that all of these family member victims were highly schooled by the parents in what to say when questioned in the investigation. I found that all by itself to be extremely suspicious.

This is just one of the many reason why I'm generally against home schooling. Though it seems to work well for some specific children or in areas where there really is no public or private decent schooling I think the majority of home schoolers are just the sort of people one would never want to be home schooled for the very reasons that these Duggar kids should not have been... it allows parents with seriously fucked up views to teach them only what they themselves believe no matter how fucked up it is as well as keeping the children from having any sort of outlet to be away from the bad influence of fucked up parents and have any opportunity to learn appropriate beliefs and even basic learning that children of normal parents learn.

And it's exactly WHY the Duggars chose to home school their children - to keep them away from any sort of influence on them that could or would teach the females that the subjugation of females is wrong and robs them of their personhood and teach the males the same thing so they would learn how to appropriately view females and treat females. Children trapped in such an exclusive and mental environment need to be removed from that environment because the damage that it has done to them is obvious.

This is exactly how all deranged religious cults work - keep everyone out of any sphere of influence that allows them any opportunity to learn or accept normal beliefs and behaviors. And that also goes for the very heads of such a religious cult - they purposely keep themselves isolated from any sphere of influence that holds up their deranged beliefs as what they are. By purposely insulating themselves in their tiny fucked up cult they are able to wholly ignore any outside influence that has any chance to teach them the errors of their fucked up beliefs and behaviors.

The very fact that this country has laws designed to specifically protect such deranged and dangerous cults that can only exist by their waiving the "religion" flag is an abomination. And there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that this country's laws permit this gross derangement that so endangers so many people is because the VAST majority of them are extraordinarily patriarchal and involve severe subjugation and abuse of females of all ages. Let one "religious" cult raise it's head that is the complete opposite and subjugates and abuses males the same way, and watch how fast a bazillion laws get written to outlaw any such thing.

SickOfTheOnePct

(7,290 posts)
5. I believe the Child Maltreatment Act
Sun May 24, 2015, 07:54 AM
May 2015

was passed in 2008, so even if the parents-as-teachers are mandatory reporters now, they most likely weren't back then.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
6. Thank you
Sun May 24, 2015, 07:57 AM
May 2015

I hope that they were required back then. But, at least someone took care of that gaping hole in mandated reporting. Parents should be mandated reporters in all states. I am shocked that they aren't.

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