General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPlease stop discussing Dennis Hastert in the context of homosexuality
It feeds into right wing tropes that molesters are more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual. That is an assertion that is belied by the evidence.
Denny the Molester diddled his underage students. Their gender is of no moment. His behavior is doubly odious as he molested minors who were incapable of informed consent and he violated the sacred trust we give teachers and other school administrators when we put our children in their care.
Thank you and have a nice day.
DemocratSinceBirth
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Do we know that this student was younger than 16? Do we know for sure it was pedophilia? I haven't seen anything about the age of the individual. Can you point me to an article? I have just been curious about the details of this
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I am going to make an educated guess the person was below the age of consent.
And the person was his high school student. High school teachers are prohibited from having sex with students in their charge.
I was looking at right wing boards and many of the reactions were 'Denny is the victim". "this happened a long time ago" and "aren't liberals defenders of gays"...
The last remark chafes. I would defend Denny The Molester's right to have sex with every Republican in the world, male or female, as long as that person is capable of giving meaningful consent and is above the age of majority.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)even had consensual sex with a male....
I totally get that his position made it punishable offense at his former school in Yorkville. But a republican with a teenage paramour relationship would be just damning in their minds. not to mention hiding it from his wife and kids.....I think if the person was below the age of consent there wouldn't be a statute of limitations on the offense either would there?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Republicans are cheap... If Denny wasn't so cheap he could have just hired an escort to sate his desires. But he thought why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free and preyed on his students.
The irony is his cheapness cost him millions, his reputation, and possibly his freedom.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I am just trying to suss out more about this story.....like why is he not arrested for pedophilia? I wouldn't think that had a statute of limitations...
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Looks like Illinois doesn't have a statute of limitations on sex abuse...
http://victimsofcrime.org/docs/DNA%20Resource%20Center/sol-for-sexual-assault-check-chart---final---copy.pdf?sfvrsn=2
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)I want to say 2 years. They changed the law about 20 years back.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Very hard to arrange for that in the U.S. Cambodia, not so much.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)If that's how he needed to sate his desires he should have left them unsated.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)And again, this has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It's a crime against children.
Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #6)
DemocratSinceBirth This message was self-deleted by its author.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)against the rights of others to do what he was doing. Hypocrisy. As to pedophilia - that is never okay either.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)"aren't liberals defenders of gays'...
The last remark chafes. I would defend Denny The Molester's right to have sex with every Republican in the world, male or female, as long as that person is capable of giving meaningful consent and is above the age of majority"
Really? Really?
Presumably the homosexual aspect of his chickenhawkery was of concern to Hastert, as it is with many conservatives.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)If the victim was a HS student, they were presumably 13 or older, a teenager.
As IL law says that it is illegal to commit acts of a sexual nature on persons who are under the age of 18 if they are in a position of authority or trust over the victim. Otherwise, the age of consent in IL is 17.
So that would make the victim 13-18 most likely.
Sexual assault of a 13-18 year old is ephebophilia (post-pubescent minors) or hebephilia (pubescent minors)...but not pedophilia which is the sexual assault of prepubescent minors. It may seem like splitting hairs but they are often treated very differently legally.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)have sexual relations with any of those others who are under 18.
cali
(114,904 posts)entrusted to teach and coach- though before the clarification of that fact, some thought this was about Hastert paying hush money to cover up his sexual orientation.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)This crap needs to stop. It's NOT OKAY to equate sexual identity and/or orientation with sick behavior... EVER.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I don't care whether he molested boys or girls.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I refuse to give any molester, of either sex, a pass.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I think that covers the sort of person he is regardless of sexual preference. Don't really care whether he is technically a pedophile or not. Plenty of pervs out there who don't break the law, or target real people from a position of power.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)Start with the Franklin Cover Up
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I also think republicans use sex to entrap and manipulate other politicians. Sex with minors, sex with prostitutes, etc. I believe it's how they maintain that unity thing they have when legislating issues.
mopinko
(70,215 posts)i believe that too. also think monica was sent.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)I read it that bill would never take the bait for kids. So they sent monica
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)Monica was 'sent' by republicans.
erronis
(15,328 posts)Blackmail is one of the easiest ways to control someone else. These legislators (and not solely 'uglicans) are likely to get themselves in compromising positions. Too bad they don't know how to compromise on the floor.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I think that "The Family" aka "The Fellowship" is a key player regarding the manipulation and blackmail of pols in DC.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)Better yet google the movie Conspiracy of Silence. Its all there and wha t this is about.
catrose
(5,073 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)Call him evil, and call it a day.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I still can't believe him and his ilk sat in judgement of Bill Clinton. He might not have been a choirboy but I don't believe he ever diddled kids, especially kids placed in his charge.
mountain grammy
(26,648 posts)Innocent till proven guilty unless there's hush money. If it had been a consenting adult, that fact would be known by now. He's a child molester in my eyes.
brewens
(13,620 posts)incident. His first scandal was molesting a Republican page boy that was under age. I think in that case the family was bought off and it went away.
jeremyfive
(491 posts)Hastert did all he could during his years of leadership to block gay rights and thwart the gay agenda, using his powerful position.
Apart from the pedophilia, the same-sex aspect of his predatory past is significant in that light. It reveals hypocrisy at a level that we have seldom seen before! We are just shining a flashlight on the monster.
The rape of any children at all is, of course, the most disturbing aspect.
George II
(67,782 posts)....he was outspoken in opposition to what HE did himself?
He had a same-sex abusive relationship with a child over whom he had authority.
Don't sugar coat it or run from any details of his crime.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)when talking about molestation That word seems to indicate something minor or playful. I don't know maybe it's just me that feels that way, though.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)OregonBlue
(7,754 posts)packman
(16,296 posts)Could care less if he is or isn't a homosexual, it's the character of the person.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I have not been as eloquent as the op but I've been trying to say the same thing. The only relevance to the sex of the young victims is Hastert went out of his way to add to not support gay issues.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)is not, by all accounts, part of the LGBT community...he is a heterosexual molester of a high school student...until more facts are revealed...
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)My wife is/was Catholic. When we first met back in the sixties she
was outraged about this homosexual suing because he could not
land a teaching job. (apparently he admitted to being homosexual
in applying for teaching jobs)
I asked my lady if she ever heard of a homo sexual being charged
for rape or child molestation? We had had several recent events
involving male teachers and their male/female students. My point was
that none of the instigators were admitted homosexuals. As a fact
they were married.
My lady/wife is still is/was Catholic but has not been back to church since
that day. She now defends the LGBT community.
It's a great life today with our children and grandchildren.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Welcome to the Underground...
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)If the victim is a boy, rather than a girl, is the psychological damage greater? Less? Different? I didn't know Hastert was in trouble.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Illustrative of how the most vile homophobes are usually reacting against something within themselves.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)A person could say somebody who shakes another person down to the tune of nearly four million dollars for something he or she did to him or her instead of going to the authorities does not have clean hands.
I don't know. I need more information before making that judgement and believe we will get it.
You do know there is a second victim who didn't get paid.
EEO
(1,620 posts)Boomer
(4,168 posts)Hastert has committed multiple betrayals, and his homosexuality is part of that equation. No matter how much I, as a gay person, may hate the right-wing tropes about molesting I'm not going to ignore this aspect of Hastert's history. It may be uncomfortable, but it's very pertinent.
As a teacher, Hastert betrayed any professional ethics and he took advantage of his position of authority if he had sexual relations with at least one student, and possibly more.
If those students were minors (which we can assume is most likely) then he also committed a crime.
And because those were homosexual relations (one relationship presumably lasted for years), Hastert has betrayed the gay community by actively attempting to curtail our civil rights to cover his own activities.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)He was investigating the Clintons for Whitewater which was a land deal where they accused the Clintons of using insider knowledge to make a buck (when they actually LOST money on that deal). Meanwhile, Denny was doing the exact same thing making millions off of a land deal using inside information from his time in office.
It just proves Republicans have no shame.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)brewens
(13,620 posts)would keep his mouth shut about any moral issues. Fair game but we shouldn't refer to him as homosexual or gay.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)If a man has sexual relations with another man, that's homosexual behavior.
If that behavior happens in a context of prison, then you can persuasively argue that the man may be fundamentally heterosexual and simply used homosexual sex as a substitute because there were no other options.
But Hastert had options and still chose to have sex with another male. If that doesn't make him a homosexual, then I'm really scratching my head to understand what exactly would meet your criteria. It's bullshit to try and distance ourselves from him, no matter how toxic he may be. No matter how much I may loathe him, Hastert is a homosexual
I agree that I wouldn't call him "gay" because that is a term I connect with homosexuals who accept. to at least some degree, their true nature. Being gay is more than just engaging in homosexual sex. I'm gay because I participate in the LGBT community as an out lesbian.
still_one
(92,396 posts)homophobe, and it is to point out the hypocrisy
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)Wouldn't it be appropriate to discuss Hastert's gay sex in terms of his hypocrisy? That was the sum and substance of Barney Frank's comments on MSNBC this past week.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/30/1389022/-Barney-Frank-calls-out-Dennis-Hastert-GOP-hypocrisy-with-a-perfect-statement#
..."There is a hypocrisy issue," Barney Frank said. "Dennis Hastert was a member of the House who voted for the Defense of Marriage act. He subsequently as Speaker twice put before the House of Representatives the constitutional amendment that would have cancelled retroactively all the same sex marriages that had taken place legally. ... The rank hypocrisy of this man using his power to persecute other people for doing what he was doing. Secondly, and it is relevant to note that in terms of the hypocrisy area, you mentioned Gingrich had to quit. It turns out Gingrich was at the time having an affair with the woman he is now married who was an employee of the House Agriculture Committee. And then Livingston who was supposed to replace him had to quit because he was having an affair not just with a woman but with a lobbyist who was lobbying him. So then in an effort to get somebody [who was clean], they get Hastert. The point is that all this was happening while they were impeaching Bill Clinton for having oral sex. So I think that it now looks like if you take Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, Dennis Hastert, and Robert Livingston the the Republican Speakers or would be speakers, Clinton is a choir boy." ...
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/09/19/903178/-Gays-are-pedophiles-No-Here-s-the-proof
Men who molest boys are more likely to be pedophiles than homosexuals. Homosexuals have adult relationships, not with children.
Boomer
(4,168 posts)There is NO evidence so far that Hastert is a pedophile. He was a high-school teacher, and last time I checked there aren't any prepubescent students going to high school.
Hastert may have had sexual relations with a minor, but "minor" covers a range of kids up to the age of 17-years-old. That's illegal because teens are still under the age of consent, but it's not the same as being a pedophile.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Still, that sure sets a low bar.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,364 posts)It means you can maybe sing a little.
There is no automatic moral high ground there. The bar is low.
From the bozo in the second row, pretending to sing.
Behind the Aegis
(53,987 posts)That is what you are primarily doing. Hopefully your message will get through to some, but I don't hold out much hope. When it comes to sexuality, especially homosexuality, people really don't have a clue. If a gay guy has sex with a woman, no one calls him "straight", but a straight guy has sex with a male, and they are automatically gay. It simply doesn't work that way. But it is a complex topic and most can't be bothered to learn about it, much less try and understand the complexities involved.
Fingers crossed. Maybe a few will learn something.