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UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
Sun May 31, 2015, 05:51 PM May 2015

Heroin making ‘roaring comeback’ in New York: DEA agent

Of course the blame is placed at the foot of prescription pain medication. The witch hunt continues....

Heroin has made a “roaring comeback” in New York in recent years, a prominent DEA agent said Sunday.

“A lot of people became addicted to prescription pills (that were) either legally prescribed or (as) young people taking pills for kicks. And unfortunately, those pills are opiate-based, and opiates are very, very addictive,” James Hunt, a special agent in charge of the New York office of the Drug Enforcement Administration, said on AM 970 The Answer’s “Cats Roundtable” radio program.

“Unfortunately in recent years, heroin has made a roaring comeback, basically fueled by this prescription pill craze,” he said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/dea-agent-heroin-making-roaring-comeback-new-york-article-1.2241949

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Heroin making ‘roaring comeback’ in New York: DEA agent (Original Post) UglyGreed May 2015 OP
I stopped taking oxycodone UglyGreed May 2015 #1
I just want to add UglyGreed May 2015 #2
My nephew has scoliosis and his surgeon Paka May 2015 #14
Sorry to hear about your nephew UglyGreed Jun 2015 #17
Thank you for the FB link Loryn Jun 2015 #39
You're welcome UglyGreed Jun 2015 #40
Well said. LuvNewcastle May 2015 #3
Thank you for the reply UglyGreed May 2015 #5
They gave it to me in the hospital last month and I remembered why I hated it Warpy May 2015 #6
Exactly. blue neen May 2015 #7
Great post UglyGreed May 2015 #9
All the lives destroyed by alcohol don't count, I guess. Mariana Jun 2015 #19
It's disgusting that those people who genuinely need pain medicine are the ones paying the price. blue neen May 2015 #4
That was one of the reason I UglyGreed May 2015 #8
The Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered, and It Is Not What You Think GliderGuider May 2015 #10
This was an amazing study UglyGreed Jun 2015 #15
That's certainly my take-away. GliderGuider Jun 2015 #18
When the Quality of your cage is based upon # of Agents report to you and their arrest rate One_Life_To_Give Jun 2015 #28
Nice analogy! GliderGuider Jun 2015 #30
Heroin became cheaper than ever and more plentiful right after we invaded Afghanistan. hobbit709 May 2015 #11
I was making that point UglyGreed Jun 2015 #16
Here are the reasons I know. hollowdweller Jun 2015 #22
Great post. Thanks for this. Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #25
I don't doubt that UglyGreed Jun 2015 #27
Well, thats just more proof that the DEA is ineffective and a colossal clusterfuck/waste of money Tom Ripley May 2015 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2015 #13
The DEA are the culprits sorefeet Jun 2015 #20
Remember this one? hollowdweller Jun 2015 #23
Really making a come back in the Tampa market. NCTraveler Jun 2015 #21
started with the Vet hospitals employees stealing rx drugs & people going to several Drs for scripts Sunlei Jun 2015 #24
Also VA drug shipments being intercepted UglyGreed Jun 2015 #35
Sounds like the CIA has shifted to another product notadmblnd Jun 2015 #26
It's been pretty "popular" in some parts of CT, too bigwillq Jun 2015 #29
These people are addicts UglyGreed Jun 2015 #33
I think that this is a problem where we need to look at the individual case. They are all different. jwirr Jun 2015 #31
Addiction and dependency UglyGreed Jun 2015 #34
I totally agree. That is why I said that it is an individual thing. jwirr Jun 2015 #36
just to clarify UglyGreed Jun 2015 #37
Preach away. We need to understand this issue. jwirr Jun 2015 #38
Hydrocodone & oxycodone street prices sky rocketed... Historic NY Jun 2015 #32

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
1. I stopped taking oxycodone
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:09 PM
May 2015

over six months ago and I have not run out to find heroin nor have I find the need to drink or anything else to try to relieve my chronic pain. This is the second time I have stopped taking a powerful opiate-based pain medication. The first time was in the early 2000 with fentanyl and did not try another opiate-based medication until six years later when I popped a few more discs and developed spinal stenosis in my lower back on top of the failed back surgery syndrome I already had.

Addicts are going to find a way to get high, those who suffer will just obey the law and suffer until they can not take the torment any longer and kill themselves. Treatment for addicts and compassion for those who suffer is the only answer. Lets stop the propaganda and start helping people.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
2. I just want to add
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:27 PM
May 2015

that I pray that none of you nor someone you love have endure the pain, ridicule and the abandonment that some have to face due to having the bad luck of being stricken with incurable life long painful infliction. No one gets flowers for chronic pain, ain't that the truth.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/No-One-Gets-Flowers-For-Chronic-Pain/158691444320146

Paka

(2,760 posts)
14. My nephew has scoliosis and his surgeon
Sun May 31, 2015, 08:46 PM
May 2015

told him he has one of the most severely messed up spinal chords he has ever seen. I try to imagine what he goes through, but no way can I come close. The worst I had for any extended time was a badly broken pelvis (9 different bones) and I am sure that was a piece of cake compared to what he suffers constantly and has for going on 30 years. My sympathy goes out to you.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
17. Sorry to hear about your nephew
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 08:04 AM
Jun 2015

I hope he can find some compassionate and understanding care. I feel we all should have more empathy for each other no matter what the person's struggles are. Thank you for the reply

Loryn

(945 posts)
39. Thank you for the FB link
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 01:52 PM
Jun 2015

I am almost off morphine sulphate. I thought I was finished, but after two miserable nights, broke down last night. So tired of feeling like some kind of criminal when I visit pain management each month.

I care for my 85 year old parents. Father with dementia, and mother with end stage renal disease. I don't have the luxury of getting high, and am over being treated as if that is my goal.

Very much appreciate this thread.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
40. You're welcome
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 02:58 PM
Jun 2015

Hang in there, I know the feeling, don't let them bring you down. Wish you all the best with your parents and with the struggles with your health.

LuvNewcastle

(16,856 posts)
3. Well said.
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:34 PM
May 2015

I've stopped taking any opiate-based medication as well. I stopped and started again numerous times. The only time I had any trouble quitting was when I stopped taking morphine. That was a little rough, but I did it. I told the people at the pain clinic that I never wanted to take something that's so hard to stop using again.

They started with the hydrocodone and oxycodone again, and that wasn't enough. I just stopped going to the pain clinic altogether. They make you piss in a cup and basically treat you like a criminal because you want something to ease your pain

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
5. Thank you for the reply
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:51 PM
May 2015

When I saw the story on the Daily News web site I told my wife I bet you any amount of money that they blame prescription medication instead of heroin itself. Of course when I clicked the story it proved my point. Believe me I am not blind to the fact that some people do get medication to get high but this type of reporting just boils my blood. It serves no purpose except to make it harder for those who suffer to find some kind of help. I hope you can find some sort of relief and understanding for you health problems, others like myself can relate to the trials and tribulations, you are not alone.

Warpy

(111,339 posts)
6. They gave it to me in the hospital last month and I remembered why I hated it
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:52 PM
May 2015

It fogs the brain and destroys decent sleep even as it dulls the pain. As soon as I got home and got that stuff out of my head, I slept for 16 hours.

In the 80s, they followed 10,880 patients in Boston who had been given opiate drugs while in the hospital. Do you know how many new addictions they found?

C'mon, guess.

Four. Yes, four new addictions among nearly 11,000 people. Those are damned good odds that say the DEA is full of shit, but we should have known that years ago.

My own practice was mostly in surgery. After the third day or so, even the patients who seemed to be enjoying the drugs wanted to get off them, to be able to think normally again. Most people would most likely use psychoactive drugs as vacations, not careers.

As for NYC, perhaps the DEA should explore why people are turning to heroin to self medicate. They might discover a few things about this country that need to be changed but can't be changed by putting drug users in prison.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
9. Great post
Sun May 31, 2015, 07:13 PM
May 2015

The facts are out there, they cherry pick what is presented. I was just saying to my wife with all the lives destroyed by alcohol why are there not any calls to go back to the days of prohibition, many deaths great cost to society, geez people don't even want breathalyzers as standard equipment in automobles. Just sayin"

Mariana

(14,860 posts)
19. All the lives destroyed by alcohol don't count, I guess.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 09:27 AM
Jun 2015

That's probably because most of the people who make up the various drug laws and regulations drink. They're certainly not about to outlaw their drug of choice.

blue neen

(12,328 posts)
4. It's disgusting that those people who genuinely need pain medicine are the ones paying the price.
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:46 PM
May 2015

Literally.

I had 6 reconstructive foot and ankle surgeries in 2 years.

Now:

$110 for the visit to the pain management doctor. 3 times this year=$330. $250 for a urine screen!

$580 so far this year. Meanwhile, I've never abused anything, including alcohol and cigarettes, in my life.

All this because of junkies, who, like you said, are going to find a way to get high. No matter what.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
8. That was one of the reason I
Sun May 31, 2015, 06:58 PM
May 2015

stopped going to pain management. That and other doctors using the medication as an excuse as to why I have other medical problems which I have proven incorrect. It does not help that I don't have any income so all that extra financial burden is placed on my wife. Thank you for the reply and I hope you can find some sort of relief.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
10. The Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered, and It Is Not What You Think
Sun May 31, 2015, 07:13 PM
May 2015
The Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered, and It Is Not What You Think

It is now one hundred years since drugs were first banned -- and all through this long century of waging war on drugs, we have been told a story about addiction by our teachers and by our governments. This story is so deeply ingrained in our minds that we take it for granted. It seems obvious. It seems manifestly true. Until I set off three and a half years ago on a 30,000-mile journey for my new book, Chasing The Scream: The First And Last Days of the War on Drugs, to figure out what is really driving the drug war, I believed it too. But what I learned on the road is that almost everything we have been told about addiction is wrong -- and there is a very different story waiting for us, if only we are ready to hear it.

One of the ways this theory was first established is through rat experiments -- ones that were injected into the American psyche in the 1980s, in a famous advert by the Partnership for a Drug-Free America. You may remember it. The experiment is simple. Put a rat in a cage, alone, with two water bottles. One is just water. The other is water laced with heroin or cocaine. Almost every time you run this experiment, the rat will become obsessed with the drugged water, and keep coming back for more and more, until it kills itself.

But in the 1970s, a professor of Psychology in Vancouver called Bruce Alexander noticed something odd about this experiment. The rat is put in the cage all alone. It has nothing to do but take the drugs. What would happen, he wondered, if we tried this differently? So Professor Alexander built Rat Park. It is a lush cage where the rats would have colored balls and the best rat-food and tunnels to scamper down and plenty of friends: everything a rat about town could want. What, Alexander wanted to know, will happen then?

In Rat Park, all the rats obviously tried both water bottles, because they didn't know what was in them. But what happened next was startling.

The rats with good lives didn't like the drugged water. They mostly shunned it, consuming less than a quarter of the drugs the isolated rats used. None of them died. While all the rats who were alone and unhappy became heavy users, none of the rats who had a happy environment did.

At first, I thought this was merely a quirk of rats, until I discovered that there was -- at the same time as the Rat Park experiment -- a helpful human equivalent taking place. It was called the Vietnam War. Time magazine reported using heroin was "as common as chewing gum" among U.S. soldiers, and there is solid evidence to back this up: some 20 percent of U.S. soldiers had become addicted to heroin there, according to a study published in the Archives of General Psychiatry. Many people were understandably terrified; they believed a huge number of addicts were about to head home when the war ended.

But in fact some 95 percent of the addicted soldiers -- according to the same study -- simply stopped. Very few had rehab. They shifted from a terrifying cage back to a pleasant one, so didn't want the drug any more.

Professor Alexander argues this discovery is a profound challenge both to the right-wing view that addiction is a moral failing caused by too much hedonistic partying, and the liberal view that addiction is a disease taking place in a chemically hijacked brain. In fact, he argues, addiction is an adaptation. It's not you. It's your cage.

After the first phase of Rat Park, Professor Alexander then took this test further. He reran the early experiments, where the rats were left alone, and became compulsive users of the drug. He let them use for fifty-seven days -- if anything can hook you, it's that. Then he took them out of isolation, and placed them in Rat Park. He wanted to know, if you fall into that state of addiction, is your brain hijacked, so you can't recover? Do the drugs take you over? What happened is -- again -- striking. The rats seemed to have a few twitches of withdrawal, but they soon stopped their heavy use, and went back to having a normal life. The good cage saved them. (The full references to all the studies I am discussing are in the book.)

Here's one example of an experiment that is happening all around you, and may well happen to you one day. If you get run over today and you break your hip, you will probably be given diamorphine, the medical name for heroin. In the hospital around you, there will be plenty of people also given heroin for long periods, for pain relief. The heroin you will get from the doctor will have a much higher purity and potency than the heroin being used by street-addicts, who have to buy from criminals who adulterate it. So if the old theory of addiction is right -- it's the drugs that cause it; they make your body need them -- then it's obvious what should happen. Loads of people should leave the hospital and try to score smack on the streets to meet their habit.

But here's the strange thing: It virtually never happens. As the Canadian doctor Gabor Mate was the first to explain to me, medical users just stop, despite months of use. The same drug, used for the same length of time, turns street-users into desperate addicts and leaves medical patients unaffected.

This gives us an insight that goes much deeper than the need to understand addicts. Professor Peter Cohen argues that human beings have a deep need to bond and form connections. It's how we get our satisfaction. If we can't connect with each other, we will connect with anything we can find -- the whirr of a roulette wheel or the prick of a syringe. He says we should stop talking about 'addiction' altogether, and instead call it 'bonding.' A heroin addict has bonded with heroin because she couldn't bond as fully with anything else.

So the opposite of addiction is not sobriety. It is human connection.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
15. This was an amazing study
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 07:59 AM
Jun 2015

maybe that is why drug use is higher in poor communities where people lose hope for a better life.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
18. That's certainly my take-away.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 09:07 AM
Jun 2015

But of course ensuring that people have educations and better jobs doesn't feed the prison-industrial complex as effectively as the DEA's aproach...

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
28. When the Quality of your cage is based upon # of Agents report to you and their arrest rate
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 11:30 AM
Jun 2015

When the Quality of Ones Cage is based upon how many agents you have as direct and indirect reports. As well as the arrest/conviction rate of all those agents. the Drug becomes "Arresting People" and it appears that may be as powerfully addictive as the Heroin itself.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
11. Heroin became cheaper than ever and more plentiful right after we invaded Afghanistan.
Sun May 31, 2015, 07:42 PM
May 2015

Last edited Mon Jun 1, 2015, 10:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Is anyone surprised by this?

 

hollowdweller

(4,229 posts)
22. Here are the reasons I know.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 10:18 AM
Jun 2015

OK so when I first started working at my job giving opiates out was fairly rare. Only for severe, acute pain like cancer or maybe a ruptured disc awaiting surgery.

About the time they started easing up on that and giving it out for less severe conditions we also passed welfare reform. It was much harder to get any assistance, but you COULD still get a Medicaid card. So people would get a prescription for them, or benzo's and sell them.

That pretty much started the problem.

Then start tracking the slide income inequality since the 90's and you have a lot of poor people who either don't have a job or are severely underemployed.

For instance a girl I worked with in the 90's had some female surgery. They gave her a big bottle of lortab. She took maybe 10 while she was recovering and then sold the rest to the people in her trailer park and paid off her deductible.

I was talking to a friend of a friend a few years back. He found out my line of work and was telling me about his recovery from a burst cervical vertebrae while he was a roofer. "Six months ago they cancelled my prescription for Vicodin" he said. "Great" I said. Knowing he meant he had finally improved to the point he no longer needed it. "Well not exactly" he said. " I hadn't been taking it for months before that" When I worked as a roofer I made over 20 dollars an hour. Now I can't do that work and I make 12 dollars an hour at Olive Garden. So the Vicodin had been paying my truck payment and child support"

So far as pills, around here it's not exactly bogus prescriptions, it's more people who have a legitimate reason for it but would rather feel a little pain and make ends meet. Also doctors often prescribe way more than are needed to get over surgery or whatever so there's extra.

Of course now we have lots of people OD'ing. Leading cause of death for people under 45 in my state. Also you have a lot of other problems. Robbery, Hepatitis C is epidemic here. Liver cancer. I've had a number of clients that had to have IV antibiotics and joint replacement due to infections from needles. Had one girl had both arms amputated due to shooting Xanax in her arms!

So make them harder to get. OK so then to fill the void all the places we have troops in now start sending us Heroin. Great.


OK now let's go BACK TO THE FUTURE


1980's. Under Reagan we suffer a severe recession that hits urban areas especially hard. We see the breaking of unions and free trade cut salaries. Reagan leads the way on drug testing and companies follow. Columbian weed becomes hard to find due to drug interception.

The US is militarily involved in Central America. Suddenly we have a cocaine epidemic, then a CRACK epidemic! Much easier to smuggle in than weed. Best way to make money in the depressed urban areas that are suffering from the recession.


So I think that there is an economic aspect of drug problems, there is a recreational aspect where poor urban or rural people don't have the opportunity or money and drugs are cheap entertainment. Then there is a foreign policy aspect where it seems like that somehow by having the CIA or army in an area makes the drugs of that region flow into the US. Also might add during the US/Israel involvement in Lebanon in the 80's HASH became much more plentiful.



UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
27. I don't doubt that
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 11:20 AM
Jun 2015

some people do sell these pills but I find it hard to believe there are so many people that have the connections or the guts to become drug dealers that it would cause an epidemic. As to the ODs many people who suffer from chronic pain do indeed kill themselves and use these pills to accomplish the task. Not all of these deaths IMO are accidental. Please understand I respect your points and feel that they are valid but I also feel there are other pieces to the puzzle that may factor in.

 

Tom Ripley

(4,945 posts)
12. Well, thats just more proof that the DEA is ineffective and a colossal clusterfuck/waste of money
Sun May 31, 2015, 07:58 PM
May 2015

isn't it??

Response to UglyGreed (Original post)

sorefeet

(1,241 posts)
20. The DEA are the culprits
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 09:32 AM
Jun 2015

they have to justify their jobs. So they bring the stuff into the country or they bring it into a city and get the ball rolling. They have done it here. We won't have a problem for a long time then all of a sudden the town is flooded with the shit. And the newspaper has to plaster it on the head lines. We need more cops, more jails, more prisons, beware. Mostly fear mongering. Didn't Reagan help bring a bunch of cocaine into the country??? Well, the DEA still does it. How many jobs would be lost if every single ILLEGAL drug user in America stopped instantly? Part of our economy was built on a false premise that we have a drug problem, when the government has started it because they planned on shipping jobs overseas. They have to do something with the unemployed. Hook em and Book em. Our crooked prison system.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
21. Really making a come back in the Tampa market.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 09:50 AM
Jun 2015

Pam Bondi ran on the fact she was going to be extremely aggressive at shutting down the pill mills. She did just that. Everyone in our area knew what the end result would be. An increase in heroin imports and use. I'm not sure why these people keep doing this shit. Well, I kind of do. It sounds great on the campaign trail. Bondi shut down pill mills with nothing additional in place. Shutting down the pill mills? Great. Love it. Shutting them down and claiming victory. Really stupid.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
24. started with the Vet hospitals employees stealing rx drugs & people going to several Drs for scripts
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 10:55 AM
Jun 2015

Obama made changes by mandate his first couple months in office and a lot of people were cutoff from their drug of choice. The Veteran drug order system was changed and requirements for Doctors writing scripts.

The heroin, IMO much is from poppies grown local here in the USA.

Poppies in an Alabama backyard.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
35. Also VA drug shipments being intercepted
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 12:17 PM
Jun 2015

by workers in the post office, UPS and such. I had no idea poppies were being grown here, but of course why not.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
26. Sounds like the CIA has shifted to another product
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 11:20 AM
Jun 2015

Cocain and crack cocain must not have been devastating enough.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
29. It's been pretty "popular" in some parts of CT, too
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 11:36 AM
Jun 2015

~~snip~~

Numerous states, including Connecticut, are reporting a rise in heroin use as many addicts shift from more costly and harder-to-get prescription opiates to this cheaper alternative. A look at what’s happening in Connecticut:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/5/connecticut-rise-in-heroin-use-unlike-anything/


~~snip~~

For the second straight year, the state has recorded a significant increase in the number of fatal heroin overdoses.


According to figures provided by the state’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, 325 people died of overdoses involving heroin in 2014, which is up from 257 in 2013 and 174 in 2012.



http://www.registercitizen.com/general-news/20150225/fatal-heroin-overdoses-in-connecticut-show-big-rise-again

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
33. These people are addicts
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 11:58 AM
Jun 2015

and their problems did not start with a trip to the doctor's office, IMO that is different than chronic pain sufferers. As you can see they are still getting their fix either way and even dying from heroin laced with fentanyl. Is it fair to make those who suffer have no way of getting some sort of relief because some people have addiction problems which are also suffering and are in need of help themselves? IMO many more people just suffer in vain and do not run out and score heroin. By some accounts there are 100 million people who suffer from some sort of chronic pain, these people need to be treated with respect and not be lumped in with those who abuse medications.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
31. I think that this is a problem where we need to look at the individual case. They are all different.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 11:43 AM
Jun 2015

My son-in-law was injured in the military. He hated drugs and refused to take meds for the pain. He endured. Then he went for surgery at the VA and they gave him drugs for pain. Still he resisted but the pain was worse instead of better. Back to surgery - worse pain. Now he has no choice because if he does not take the pain relief he cannot even walk. Yet he tries to resist. I suspect he is now addicted.

My grandson used pain pills by choice for years. Then his hip was broken in an accident. We told the doctors that he was addicted and while he was in the hospital they did not use the same drugs. But when he got into PT they put him back on the worst of his drugs and filled the prescription for 2 years. Today he is working to break the habit and is doing fairly well.

The clinic where he goes has finally started taking the doctors on. My granddaughter who runs the clinic told me about this and I supported those who are blaming the doctors using her own brothers example.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
34. Addiction and dependency
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 12:12 PM
Jun 2015

IMO are two different things. Would you call a diabetic an addict or dependent who relies on insulin to live? Your son in law is a good example since has no choice and now depends on pain relief to have some sort of life. I would not call him an addict, I would say he is just trying to survive. If you say people can live with pain that is not always the case and suicide is very high among those who have never ending pain. It affects every aspect of your life to the point life is not worth living in some cases.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
37. just to clarify
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 12:55 PM
Jun 2015

I hope my reply did not come across as harsh, I just used your post to jump on my soapbox and do some "preaching"

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