it was pretty horrible when I moved away 6 years ago

I was commuting from the East Bay to the area around the LGBT Center

It was bad decades ago.

Let's set aside my complaint that Bart does not go to enough places in the city (the entire western 2/3rds) and that stupid non overnight pain in everyone's rear.

Who designed these expressways?!

Endless merges within merges within merges. The fact there are a billion accidents a day does not shock me.

Designing a system where people have to cross multiple lanes of traffic just before the maze.

If someone sneezes on 80, traffic will halt clear up to Vallejo. Even on weekends, you're risking slamming into an endless, slow-going mass.

Luckily I work close to home and don't need to touch the freeway. Can't use Bart on weekends as my friends don't even hit the bars til 11pm. AC transit will get there when it gets there.

I can't believe this is the transportation system of a major metropolitan area.

In many places I find that the transportation stops running about 90 minutes to 2 hours before the bars close.

stops running at 2:15. There are many clubs along its north-south route, so they were thinking ahead in that regards when it was built. I would assume the late-hours are the same for the routes that serve east-Houston and the main UH campus. (Looks like it's only on weekends; you're SOL during the week.)

They still haven't built a leg to the west, yet have studied that "problem" for at least the last decade or so.

One unintended consequence of kicking out all the lower- and middle-income people is the risk of businesses having employees who need to leave at 11:30pm in order to get home, because they no longer live in the city and have to cross the bay.

When my friends meet in the Castro, we always know well in advance which unfortunate's apartment we'll alight on at 2:05 AM. It's the only way to function.

But the kicker is, Bart stations are so pointlessly located, you have to take Muni to get to the station. So if I want to Bart home from various places, I'd have to leave events in the 11-1130p range.

It's a total nonstarter for me.

Perhaps we can get some self driving transit vehicles on the road to ferry folks to the larger stations until the whole thing gets automated. That'll be wild.

Friday's, right? And how many more years, decades will it take to get the narrows wide enough?

haven't been in touch lately, what was the past winter like up that way? Is the California drought local here or is it impacting Portland?

thinking about heading up that way.. some day.

Perils of a booming economy

I know why I left. Too many people. Prices skyrocketing.

It used to be you'd pay a bit more to live in S.F. rather than commute to the East Bay. That was in the olden days when a studio apt. in a fairly decent neighborhood was a couple of hundred a month. Today, same deal would be a couple of thousand a month.

I left about 25 years ago and I have zero regrets.

I definitely see more homeless people sleeping on the train. And my home station definitely has more people going in and out. Montgomery at 5:00 is damn near dangerous; so many people crammed into that little space, I'm surprised more people aren't accidentally pushed onto the tracks. Especially if there is even a moderate delay in service.

Also, I used to stop at Peets every morning and grab coffee for the walk to BART, but it's been over a year sine I have done that. Why? Because there is always a huge line there now. I know that's good for Peets' bottom line, but it sucks for me.

I see these high-rises going up in every direction and think, "there will be enormous lines at everything once these things are filled with residents. Restaurants aren't adding 30% more tables, and there is no space for new businesses to pop up. How are all these people going to fit?" And that's not even taking into account the current gentrification and eviction issues.

The whole city is starting to feel like a giant Tokyo train.

or one of the stores

the Peets in the stations aren't owned by Peets but are licensed by them; they don't have to meet the same quality standards which I always thought sucked

even in the once sleepy 'burbs.

Born and raised in the Bay Area - I've been gone a little over a year. The last city I lived was Mountain View. You could walk to some destinations within the city faster than you could drive (like just getting across El Camino Real ... fucking hell).

The crowding is insane and homelessness is exploding, because people can't afford $4K/month for rent. People living in other people's garages, in storage sheds and tents in backyards. Seriously depressing. When I go back to the Bay Area I feel instantly anxious and stressed. Even though it feels like "home", something very bad happened to home.

Even though I don't like where I am now and am exploring my options for relocating (thinking maybe Oregon, if I can afford it), I know I'll never go back to the Bay Area. And I thought it would always be my home. As an artist and art-obsessed person, I loved SF more than I can tell you and spent every free moment there. Now it feels like a beautiful shrine to conspicuous consumption. Let the tech billionaires have it. I'm gone.

The only other city I can imagine living in is Barcelona

I wish it could be me too but it's just not in the cards. It will always be an incredibly beautiful city and were I lucky enough to have secure housing in SF, they couldn't pry my rotting corpse from it.

But my experience of SF, which centered largely around art shows, seems to be going the way of the dodo. I so loved the rich multiculturalism and the wonderfully bizarre tableau of every imaginable flavor of humanity you could encounter only in SF. You didn't have to be obscenely rich, and there were artists, writers, musicians and other creative people who made up the pulse of the city. I'm so glad I had those wonderful early experiences because it taught me to appreciate the strange beauty of freaks like myself.

Typing this I want so badly to head to the city for a coffee in North Beach, which used to be my favorite thing in the world to do. Please have one for me, if you can.

are techies. And their lives hang largely around art shows and music. They paint in alleys and sew together and publish and play music and write and make movies and are lefty politically active. And their creative lives involve thousands like them. I won't deny the city has changed but there is much to the city that has remained the same to my daughter's generation.

I'm glad your daughter and her friends are able to hang on. I honestly don't know how they're doing it, because gone are the days of supporting your art with a job waiting tables or working retail. Basic survival is so difficult and gentrification means fewer spaces for art. I guess it helps if you have family in the city or some other support system. Whatever the case, more power to them.

I definitely have a love/hate relationship with the place

I hear it's just as bad in Seattle.

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded"

Sad as hell isn't it?

After the Loma Prieta hit, Gough street in S.F. was closed for many years thus making it a choking disaster trying to get out of the City!

They finally managed to re-open Gough street and no, it was not that long ago!

Who needs it?

Next big quake you'll see them fleeing en mass is my prediction and yes, there will be another big one as it is part of the history of the San Francisco Bay Area!

Loma Prieta hit me hard. I was living just a few blocks from Los Gatos at the time, where people were killed when the brick buildings came down. After that I was always taking mental inventory of where my loved ones were, and would they be safe if another one hit. Some of them worked in concrete tilt-up office buildings which were not supposed to be earthquake-safe. I myself lived in a "soft story" apartment building for years, and they're supposed to come down like a house of cards. Constant unease.

It may be boring where I am now but at least I don't have to bolt my furniture to the walls.

I grew up with dairies and farms and orchards. Los Altos was apricots. Sunnyvale was cherries. I still have anxiety over the loss. It was a huge loss in my life when I left. A friend's grandfather started Youngs auto body in Palo Alto in 1936. I remember the Bad Area from 1959, and it was a very nice quiet place. Must have been idyllic in '36.

it's been a couple of years since I've driven up that way, but I have noticed a lot of work along the 101 corridor over the Sonoma Co. line paving the path for SMART. I understood it finally passed in Marin?

I'm retired and don't work in SF, but go to UCSF campassess in the Mission and on Parnassus for a couple of separate, unrelated matters. I'm finally getting the hang of when to take the Bart and when NOT to.

Thankfully I can pick up the transbay O line that stops right on the corner of my street in Alameda, crosses the bay into SF, end of line at the Transbay Terminal (Temporary) and then from around the corner sort of, I'll pick up to the MUNI for the Mission or walk a couple of blocks up to pick up Muni's N line.

Sometimes it's great, and other times it's not so great. It's a mixed bag, and ya gotta get the system figured out by trying different alternatives and options.

and took the bus sometimes. I hated it but it was better sometimes than driving to Fruitvale to catch BART.

But if I get the timing just right, the O line is better than Bart, cheaper, and faster. Depending of course what the destination is. I have to constantly juggle and weigh out the options, negotiating time and destination factors. But as a matter of routine, I really do think the O is the best option over and beyond driving (of course) or going into Fruitvale or 12th St Bart stations. It's nice to have options though. Didn't have that up north in Sonoma County where I hailed from before landing down here a few years ago.

I lived close to the shopping center

they said traffic was nothing like it is compared to where we live in CT, but I guess you have other problems.
I think I would rather drive than go through the mess you go through. lol

There is a word for it. Can't think of it.

At rush hour they ride against the commute to a stop where seats are available then ride in the direction they want to go. So the rest of humanity have no chance for a seat

My son's school is in the Dolores Park area. So on the mornings I catch BART at 16th/Mission. But if I try to pick up the Richmond train at that time, it is PACKED with passengers heading to SF, Oakland and Berkeley stops. So I take a less crowded train (usually the Fremont or Dublin), get off at Embarcadero and catch the Richmond when it is less crowded.

If I need to travel from the financial district to the East Bay at rush hour, I take a Millbrae or SFO train to Civic or 16th St rather than cram onto a car between Powell and Embarcadero. It's much less stressful.

More frequent trains and stations. Sure there will be infill, but there would be more people getting off at these stations, which would be closer to some folks homes, that's what I think.

You either live with the problem or you move. Because it is only going to get worse.

I have live most of my life in the NYC area, but small 5 year times in Boston and Washington DC. All three are total nightmare traffic areas. Nothing is ever going to change it.

The job markets tend to pay more in these type areas, so you save up so you can move to somewhere less congested in your later years.

The amount of time people spend in a car or train commute is insane. Take control of your own life and decide NOT to live under those rules.

It was 10:00 a.m. and 80 was still packed. My wife said "Seems like we're getting more like Southern California every day."

would of thought that would have ended any traffic problems, I was amazed how quick we got from Oakland to Fisherman's Wharf .

Rush hour on the Metro and Beltway are torture.

The Twin Cities in Minnesota have parking lot freeways twice a day, too. I'm so glad I'm self-employed and don't have to commute anywhere. Los Angeles is a cosmic disaster, traffic-wise, and that's not just confined to rush hours. It seems like every major city and its surrounding suburbs are afflicted with the same problem.

that were meant for a small fraction of the traffic they now get. If you have to get across the bay, there WILL be a bottleneck because there are no alternative routes. It's also bad trying to go through a major tunnel that connects Berkeley with the farther eastern suburbs.

Friends and I decided to go down to Los Angeles, (about 2 hours maybe) to visit Dodger Stadium to see the Dodgers play the Giants. The traffic going on the Highway was a dead stop. We were lucky to go two hours early, so we wouldn't miss the first pitch, but We arrived just as the game started, and we were in the Parking lot trying to find a place to park. By the time we got to the gate, bought our food, and drinks and headed up to our seats, out by first base, the first half of the first inning was over!! Going home after the game was over was a night mare!! Everyone trying to leave at once... that took us an entire hour to get out of the parking lot!!

Tons and tons of traffic coming from Tracy/Stockton and Livermore west on 580 to Hayward/Castro Valley and cutting southwest to 680 and 680 via 84.

They have already done a lot of widening - more to follow.

And to echo everyone - who the heck can figure out what BART is thinking

They can't finish the roadwork soon enough.

You want crowded? Come to NYC.

If its not far, I walk..if it is, I will take a cab. Its not really that expensive to get around town, if you don't go as often. For everyday travel, all we have is MUNI..and BART, and yes its getting worse. I remember once trying to get the bus from Haight and Masonic Avenue. Three buses passed me by filled with people, before I could even get on the 4th bus. It took me an extra half hour to get to where I needed to go.

Stop expanding the freeways. Build at least 2 more tunnels under the city for express lines to the Richmond and Sunset districts. Shorter bus routes with timed connections. Give bus drivers the ability to change the light from red to green during commute hours. 24 hour rail. Congestion pricing.

Is there something that California could or should be doing in order to rectify this problem? Like more trains that run more frequently? Or building new BART stations in places that don't currently have one?

but would it make sense during an economic downturn? I don't know.

That even during the downturn BART was at capacity.

How does someone live in downtown SF, post a thread on the inadequacy of the transit system the wonder if it needs expansion during non boom economic times?

I've been here about 20 years now. Originally from MA.

It's kind of like what folks from Maine say - "You can't get there from here". At least not easily.

For example - BART should ring the Bay. It doesn't, and you cannot go to Silicon Valley/San Jose at all via BART.

For an area thats really not big at all, depending on where you are starting AND ending - it can be very easy, or next to impossible to get there. The actual area covered by public transit is insufficient. You may have to go on several different transit agencies in a relatively short distance, and there's little inter-agency coordination

However - we really are not that "old" of an area if you think of it. Nobody 40 years ago would have thought to build commuter rail/BART type of service in the locations where it is now needed. And now the systems could never afford the land or infrastructure to do it.

As far as roads go - what seem to be missing here are the roads like Route 9, or Route 2. Roads that might not be an interstate, but move along from town to town. There's few "shortcuts" or alternate routes here. If you are not on an interstate, you're not going very far very fast