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Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 04:39 PM Jun 2015

Obama Sidelines Kerry on Ukraine Policy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/obama-sidelines-kerry-on-_b_7527342.html

Obama Sidelines Kerry on Ukraine Policy
Eric Zuesse 6/07/2015 8:46 pm EDT

On May 21, I headlined "Secretary of State John Kerry v. His Subordinate Victoria Nuland, Regarding Ukraine," and quoted John Kerry's May 12 warning to Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to cease his repeated threats to invade Crimea and re-invade Donbass, two former regions of Ukraine, which had refused to accept the legitimacy of the new regime that was imposed on Ukraine in violent clashes during February 2014. (These were regions that had voted overwhelmingly for the Ukrainian President who had just been overthrown. They didn't like him being violently tossed out and replaced by his enemies.)

Kerry said then that, regarding Poroshenko, "We would strongly urge him to think twice not to engage in that kind of activity, that that would put Minsk in serious jeopardy. And we would be very, very concerned about what the consequences of that kind of action at this time may be."

Also quoted there was Kerry's subordinate, Victoria Nuland, three days later, saying the exact opposite, that we "reiterate our deep commitment to a single Ukrainian nation, including Crimea, and all the other regions of Ukraine." I noted, then that, "The only person with the power to fire Nuland is actually U.S. President Barack Obama." However, Obama instead has sided with Nuland on this.

Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, bannered, on June 5, "Poroshenko: Ukraine Will 'Do Everything' To Retake Crimea'," and reported that, "President Petro Poroshenko has vowed to seek Crimea's return to Ukrainian rule. ... Speaking at a news conference on June 5, ... Poroshenko said that 'every day and every moment, we will do everything to return Crimea to Ukraine.'" Poroshenko was also quoted there as saying, "It is important not to give Russia a chance to break the world's pro-Ukrainian coalition," which indirectly insulted Kerry for his having criticized Poroshenko's warnings that he intended to invade Crimea and Donbass.

<edit>

Kerry, for his part, now faces the decision as to whether to quit -- which would force the EU's hand regarding whether to continue with U.S. policy there -- or else for Kerry to stay in office and be disrespected in all capitals for his staying on after having been so blatantly contradicted by his subordinate on a key issue of U.S. foreign policy. If he stays on while Nuland also does, then, in effect, Kerry is being cut out of policymaking on Europe and Asia (Nuland's territory), altogether, and the EU needs to communicate directly with Obama on everything, or else to communicate with Nuland as if she and not Kerry were the actual U.S. Secretary of State. But if Kerry instead quits, then the pressure would be placed on EU officials: whether to continue with the U.S., or to reject U.S. anti-Russia policy, and to move forward by leaving NATO, and all that that entails?

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Obama Sidelines Kerry on Ukraine Policy (Original Post) Karmadillo Jun 2015 OP
LOL. Eric Zuesse is a Larouchie nutjob and a Putin-humper. geek tragedy Jun 2015 #1
Then why does HuffPo print him? KamaAina Jun 2015 #3
Click bait for feeble-brained, tin-foily crowd. FSogol Jun 2015 #5
because it is a gossip rag snooper2 Jun 2015 #6
his stuff is on salon as well. m-lekktor Jun 2015 #7
larouche websites feature his work, he thinks Obama is a Nazi, and wants Obama geek tragedy Jun 2015 #10
Here you go: FSogol Jun 2015 #11
Because they have virtually no standards? nt geek tragedy Jun 2015 #8
You called it - toxic, insane garbage! LOL. n/t FSogol Jun 2015 #4
Zuesse concluded the economy does far better when Democrats are Karmadillo Jun 2015 #12
Larouchies are nominally Democrats. geek tragedy Jun 2015 #13
Do you have a link showing Zuesse supports Larouche? The links Karmadillo Jun 2015 #14
Generally, people who call themselves leftists who accuse Obama of being a Nazi who needs geek tragedy Jun 2015 #15
I figured you were just making it up. Thanks for Karmadillo Jun 2015 #16
Fine, fine-he's an ideological clone of Lyndon LaRouche, right down to the geek tragedy Jun 2015 #17
I simply posted an article that pointed out a significant Karmadillo Jun 2015 #20
Zuesse's entire schtick is that Obama is a Nazi who wants to start a war in europe. geek tragedy Jun 2015 #23
The quotes from Kerry and Nuland are accurate and reveal a division at State. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #18
No they don't. Supporting Ukrainian sovereignty over Crimea doesn't mean geek tragedy Jun 2015 #21
Ad hominems and insults aside, what do you have? Comrade Grumpy Jun 2015 #19
The article is disngenuous dreck, construing Obama's failure to fire Nuland for stating geek tragedy Jun 2015 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author TheNutcracker Jun 2015 #2
hahahaha JI7 Jun 2015 #9
I know... joeybee12 Jun 2015 #24
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
1. LOL. Eric Zuesse is a Larouchie nutjob and a Putin-humper.
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 04:47 PM
Jun 2015

There does not exist a less credible voice on the Internet. Samples of his work include:

Why the Democratic Party Will Die Unless a House Democrat Introduces a Resolution to Impeach President Obama


http://www.opednews.com/articles/Why-the-Democratic-Party-W-by-Eric-Zuesse-Congress-Democrats_Democrats-DNC_Impeachment_Obama-Administration-140801-192.html

Obama Goes All-Out Nazi as He Races to His Presidency's Finish-Line

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Obama-Goes-All-Out-Nazi-as-by-Eric-Zuesse-Congress-Democrats_Impeachment_Nuclear-Weapons_Obama-Administration-140722-262.html

I understand his appeal for the Putin-humping, Obama-hating nutjobs out there. Not sure why you think this toxic, insane garbage would have any appeal here, or anywhere outside Russian state media and the Republican party.

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
7. his stuff is on salon as well.
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:02 PM
Jun 2015

and alternet, a site i know third way types don't care for but still. I am googling and searching for a wiki entry or a "larouche connection" so far to no avail. the "larouche connection" alone is enough for me to dismiss him if true.

Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
12. Zuesse concluded the economy does far better when Democrats are
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:11 PM
Jun 2015

in power than when Republicans have control. You don't find that credible? Interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/THEYRE-NOT-EVEN-CLOSE-Democratic-ebook/dp/B008DZO7C6/ref=la_B001KC9V7U_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1433797389&sr=1-2

"The Democratic and Republican Parties are virtual opposites of each other in their economic records, going back to the earliest period for which economic data were available, around 1910. More than a dozen studies have been done comparing economic growth, unemployment, average length of unemployment, stock market performance, inflation, federal debt, and other economic indicators, during Democratic and Republican presidencies and congresses, and they all show stunningly better performance when Democrats are in power, than when Republicans are. These studies are all available online, and they are all summarized and discussed in this path-breaking book, which settles, once and for all, the question of whether there’s any significant economic difference between the two Parties. Not only is there a difference, but – shockingly – it always runs in favor of Democrats in power. There might be other types of reasons for voting Republican, but all of the economic reasons favor voting for Democrats. Regarding economic performance, the two Parties aren’t even close."

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
13. Larouchies are nominally Democrats.
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:17 PM
Jun 2015

Kooks like this guy can't be wrong about everything, even though they try.

Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
14. Do you have a link showing Zuesse supports Larouche? The links
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:23 PM
Jun 2015

above simply show Larouche sites that have published his work. Given that anyone can publish just about anything on the internet these days, that's not much in the way of evidence. I don't see anything on Google that suggests Zuesse is a Larouche supporter. Since you've made the accusation, can you please post somethhing a little more dispositive to back up what you said? Thanks.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
15. Generally, people who call themselves leftists who accuse Obama of being a Nazi who needs
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:26 PM
Jun 2015

to be impeached fall under the rubric of the LaRouchie banner.

If that's the kind of author whose voice you think best represents rational dialogue, that's on you. You're the one who dragged this barking moonbat nutjob's rantings onto DU.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
17. Fine, fine-he's an ideological clone of Lyndon LaRouche, right down to the
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:30 PM
Jun 2015

sucking up to Moscow, as well as the "Impeach Nazi Obama" drivel.

As if that makes your affinity for him any more defensible.

Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
20. I simply posted an article that pointed out a significant
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:38 PM
Jun 2015

contradiction in the Obama administration regarding its Ukraine policy. What's not defensible is lying to fellow DUers in order to bias the reaction to the article. If you didn't have any evidence Zuesse was a follower of LaRouche, you probably shouldn't have made the accusation, right?

I know insults are your thing, but it is possible to respond to the substance of an article. Is Zuesse wrong in how he portrays Kerry's position? Nuland's? Maybe you could even point out Kerry and Nuland are addressing different audiences and it's possible there's really no significant contradiction in policy. But I guess that's asking too much. LaRouchie! and Putin-humper! it shall be.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
23. Zuesse's entire schtick is that Obama is a Nazi who wants to start a war in europe.
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:44 PM
Jun 2015

Ergo his willful distortion of events, wherein Nuland and Kerry both are stating Obama's stance--that Crimea is part of Ukraine, and that any resolution should be by diplomatic channels, not via armed conflict--into one where Obama has 'sidelined' Kerry by refusing to fire Nuland. Even though Nuland said nothing that Kerry would disagree with.

Because, if Obama thinks Crimea is part of Ukraine, that means he wants World War III. That's the theory in this sick bastard's imagination, anyways.

The entire article is a trainwreck of anti-US, anti-Obama, pro-Putin, and Nuland Derangement Syndrome gibberish.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
21. No they don't. Supporting Ukrainian sovereignty over Crimea doesn't mean
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:38 PM
Jun 2015

that one thinks Ukraine should try to take it back by force.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
22. The article is disngenuous dreck, construing Obama's failure to fire Nuland for stating
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 05:41 PM
Jun 2015

the official Obama administration position--that Crimea is part of Ukraine--as meaning Obama has sidelined Kerry because Kerry doesn't think Ukraine should launch a ground offensive to retake Ukraine (newsflash: neither does Ukraine's government--Poroschenko is engaging in stupid rhetoric he has no ability to deliver on)/

Response to Karmadillo (Original post)

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