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No amount of lipstick will help. (Original Post) madfloridian Jun 2015 OP
There are certainly quite a few posters here Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #1
fortunately, there's no shortage of mud. Buzz Clik Jun 2015 #41
You've certainly slung your share Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #42
Oh, my. And here I thought I was in charge of lipstick. Buzz Clik Jun 2015 #43
WOW... malokvale77 Jun 2015 #47
Some pigs are more equal than others. Octafish Jun 2015 #2
OTOH, bacon is delicious! hootinholler Jun 2015 #29
Absolutely. And beaten. Octafish Jun 2015 #32
No but you have to admit the accessories help. zeemike Jun 2015 #3
I really trust Bill Moyers. zentrum Jun 2015 #4
+1 appalachiablue Jun 2015 #45
The more you learn about this pact, the more rancid it seems marmar Jun 2015 #5
Absolutely, One can Remodel, Rehab and Paint Pretty Pictures...but TPA, TPP, TPIP and TISA are KoKo Jun 2015 #6
I read through the news feeds and threads on several rightwing sites loooneranger Jun 2015 #7
Teaparty base maybe. Democratic base no, per the latest Pew Research poll: ucrdem Jun 2015 #9
And yet, the liberal Congressional Democrats who have read the damn thing Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #10
"politicians are out of sync with a turn in public sentiment." ucrdem Jun 2015 #14
Or maybe the "liberal Democrats" who were polled Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #16
Pew is as good they come and the poll is fresh. ucrdem Jun 2015 #17
It is what it is Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #19
The TPP is sausage. snort Jun 2015 #36
This poll wasn't about the TPP -- it was a general poll about free trade, so it is meaningless Nay Jun 2015 #37
I don't trust... malokvale77 Jun 2015 #48
I would want to see the questions on that poll and other statistics madfloridian Jun 2015 #23
"Americans believe that free trade is good for the nation." SusanCalvin Jun 2015 #18
I read the poll. Only talks about "trade" never mentions the more toxic parts. madfloridian Jun 2015 #26
^^^this^^^ malokvale77 Jun 2015 #49
.... madfloridian Jun 2015 #50
How to do this politely? MFrohike Jun 2015 #27
That is shameful, if true. No wonder the Dem Party is losing its membership, no longer representing sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #35
The tea party base is against it only because Obama favors it tularetom Jun 2015 #44
Tells us all who the government is really Of, By and For truebluegreen Jun 2015 #13
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. kenfrequed Jun 2015 #30
ha this is excellent! k & R. m-lekktor Jun 2015 #8
I agree completely. And I remember the ways NAFTA was pitched-- rosy predictions, no Chapter 11 Overseas Jun 2015 #11
Mexico and Canada have already been sued by corporations under NAFTA Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #12
The US just lost a case over meat labeling. jeff47 Jun 2015 #39
Not usually a single issue voter, but JEB Jun 2015 #15
Not unreasonable since this is never a one off type deal. TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #20
Thanks for posting Omaha Steve Jun 2015 #21
Wow, Steve, that Bernie meter keeps going up. Almost $4000. madfloridian Jun 2015 #24
They sent some emails asking for signatures to the petition against the TPP. I signed it and sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #34
Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jun 2015 #22
Plutocracies are a shitty way to run things. Rex Jun 2015 #25
Stockholm Syndrome..... wolfie001 Jun 2015 #28
Call your politicians now and keep calling to oppose this horrid "trade" deal (corporate coup) Dont call me Shirley Jun 2015 #31
Now all that is left is cartoonish attacks with cartoonish rhetoric....it is a good sign. Fred Sanders Jun 2015 #33
Kick. They don't care how they look to you. You will rarely see them. raouldukelives Jun 2015 #38
Kick and R BeanMusical Jun 2015 #40
K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Jun 2015 #46

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
1. There are certainly quite a few posters here
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 07:25 PM
Jun 2015

who are keeping Maybelline and Revlon in business trying to purty up that pig.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
6. Absolutely, One can Remodel, Rehab and Paint Pretty Pictures...but TPA, TPP, TPIP and TISA are
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 08:51 PM
Jun 2015

ABOMINATIONS.... And, if they Pass the Results will Haunt Us ...Down the Road...as did NAFTA and DEREGULATION of BANKERS, FCC and WELFARE REFORM did under our Dem President in the PAST.

WHY ARE WE DEMS SUPPORTING THIS?

 

loooneranger

(34 posts)
7. I read through the news feeds and threads on several rightwing sites
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:27 PM
Jun 2015

And from what I saw most of the tea p's are against the TPP also. What does it tell you when the base of both parties is against it and the powers that be are going to do it anyway?

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
9. Teaparty base maybe. Democratic base no, per the latest Pew Research poll:
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:37 PM
Jun 2015
By a margin of 58 percent to 33 percent, Americans believe that free trade is good for the nation. Such sentiment is particularly strong among Hispanics (71 percent) and 18-to-29 year olds (69 percent).


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026793057

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
14. "politicians are out of sync with a turn in public sentiment."
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:52 PM
Jun 2015

BRUCE STOKES, Foreign Policy, MAY 29, 2015:

But, contrary to the alignment of political forces in Washington, among the general public liberal Democrats are somewhat more likely than conservative Republicans to think that free trade is good for the country. And, in a new development, more Americans now believe that free trade agreements have helped rather than hurt their family finances.

This is particularly true among young people and Hispanics, a potent new constituency for trade which also happens to be disproportionately Democratic-leaning.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/29/when-did-democrats-become-americas-free-trade-believers/


Ross Perot lives but his FUD has retired. It happens.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
16. Or maybe the "liberal Democrats" who were polled
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 10:09 PM
Jun 2015

don't have any idea just what is in the damn thing. In all likelihood, if this poll actually does reflect the opinions of non-politician "liberal Democrats" (and I have my doubts about that), it is a case of "Obama's for it, so I'm for it".

But I have heard a speech, and read a book, about the TPP by a former Japanese government minister who is now a leading opponent of TPP in Japan. He was actually involved in some of the negotiations, and still has connections with insiders. He has laid out, in terms anyone can understand, why it is an abomination for the average citizen.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
19. It is what it is
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 10:25 PM
Jun 2015

which is an opinion poll, taken of people who in all likelihood have no idea about just what is in the TPP.

On the other hand, I have heard, and read, information from people who have actually had inside information about TPP, and they don't like what they see. I trust their assessment much more than I trust some opinion poll of non-insider "liberal Democrats".

Nay

(12,051 posts)
37. This poll wasn't about the TPP -- it was a general poll about free trade, so it is meaningless
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jun 2015

to conclude that those polled agreed with what's in the TPP. In fact, if they are truly for free trade, they would not approve of the TPP at all.

But, as others have said, most people who are polled on any subject usually don't know much about the subject; bet they heard the word "free" and that triggered a "yes."

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
18. "Americans believe that free trade is good for the nation."
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 10:17 PM
Jun 2015

That's not the same thing as supporting TPP, et al. Those things are about corporate sovereignty, not free trade.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
26. I read the poll. Only talks about "trade" never mentions the more toxic parts.
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 02:22 AM
Jun 2015

That's how polls work. The questions get the answers they want to get.

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
27. How to do this politely?
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 02:25 AM
Jun 2015

Your quoted and bolded text directly contradict the assertion you made. You are citing a poll that shows support for free trade in the abstract, not in a particular case. To use evidence that does not say what you claim it does is lying.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
35. That is shameful, if true. No wonder the Dem Party is losing its membership, no longer representing
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 10:55 AM
Jun 2015

the people.

So, I guess the Unions are no longer part of the Dem base, the Liberal Organizations, Labor, in fact every organization that used to be traditionally part of the Dem base is opposed to this.

When DID the makeup of the Dem base change? If these huge organizations are no longer counted as the Dem base, when did THAT happen?

And where will all these former members of that base be going now?

Right to where they should go, they will endorse Bernie Sanders who speaks for them.

So, great news for Progressives I guess. Nothing will build Bernie's campaign support like the party abandoning what used to be its base.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
44. The tea party base is against it only because Obama favors it
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 02:24 PM
Jun 2015

Because it's been referred to as "Obamatrade" on wing nut radio and inter webs. Which means that they've taken the correct position for entirely the wrong reason.

And I'd venture to say that many of that 58% of Americans who claim to "believe that free trade is good for the nation" have no clue WTF "free trade" actually means. Anything that's "free" must be good, huh? This is the land of the "free" after all. If it's free it's gotta be OK! And besides, Obama is pushing it.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
30. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 09:16 AM
Jun 2015

Of course if the tea party told me anything I would double check it, but labor, environmental, and progressive groups were against the TPP long before the tea party ever heard it existed.

Also I garauntee you there are probably plenty of Teahaddists that are in favor of the TPP, at least once their corporate masters tell them to be in favor of it.

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
8. ha this is excellent! k & R.
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:29 PM
Jun 2015

it's sad knowing all this garbage is pretty much inevitable and we can't do anything about it.

Overseas

(12,121 posts)
11. I agree completely. And I remember the ways NAFTA was pitched-- rosy predictions, no Chapter 11
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:42 PM
Jun 2015

Not much discussion about giving corporations the power to overrule local governments world wide.

The TPP is "totally different" though-- don't look at the Investor-State Dispute Resolution section. Corporations will be able to sue local and national governments whose pesky regulations may damage their future profits. Even if the local regulations are in place to prevent damaging our environment or protecting people's health.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
12. Mexico and Canada have already been sued by corporations under NAFTA
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:46 PM
Jun 2015

Mexico didn't want a toxic waste dump, got sued and lost. Canada has been sued over its prohibitions against the importation of the neurotoxin MMT and its ban on fracking.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
39. The US just lost a case over meat labeling.
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 11:31 AM
Jun 2015

So get ready to not be able to tell if your meat came from a slaughterhouse that met the (already lax) USDA standards.

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
15. Not usually a single issue voter, but
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:52 PM
Jun 2015

this thing is so bad in so many ways and on so many fronts that I will not vote for anyone from school board on up that is not a strong and active opponent.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
24. Wow, Steve, that Bernie meter keeps going up. Almost $4000.
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 01:52 AM
Jun 2015

Love the meter, keeping track of it.

I have only had 3 emails from his campaign, yet I have donated several times. Is the campaign sending out many?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
34. They sent some emails asking for signatures to the petition against the TPP. I signed it and
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 10:49 AM
Jun 2015

almost instantly received a thank you. Their campaign seems to be run by some pretty efficient people, his event plans eg, his media appearances, his online army of supporters.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
25. Plutocracies are a shitty way to run things.
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 02:04 AM
Jun 2015

The TPP is so popular, yet everyone treats it like toxic sludge...gee I wonder why. Free trade is the garbage Reagan forced upon us in the 80s.

How many decade are we going to keep eating the same old garbage, while the elite dine on the fruits of our labor?

wolfie001

(2,251 posts)
28. Stockholm Syndrome.....
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 08:35 AM
Jun 2015

....if we get along with the evil-doers (Wall Street), maybe they'll treat us better.


"You'll get pie in the sky when you die".....Famous lyric by Joe Hill 1911 sung in response to the Salvation Army's propaganda.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
31. Call your politicians now and keep calling to oppose this horrid "trade" deal (corporate coup)
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 09:29 AM
Jun 2015

Whitehouse Comments: 202-456-1111

United States Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
38. Kick. They don't care how they look to you. You will rarely see them.
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 11:28 AM
Jun 2015

They only rub elbows with others like them.

For an investor, the thought they may inadvertently catch a glimpse of the eyes of a child they left to poverty, left to pain and suffering to satisfy themselves and those they financially assist, is the greatest fear of all.

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