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cali

(114,904 posts)
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:46 AM Jun 2015

HRC and the 2009 Honduran Military Coup: How Does This Qualify her to be President?

Last edited Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:55 AM - Edit history (1)

Hillary's Resume is impressive. I don't vote for a resume. And her time as SoS is actually something I find to be filled with questions. No, not the fake Benghazi scandal, but Libya, Syria and Honduras. And no the SoS, does not just follow orders like some minion of the President's. There is a a lot of autonomy and decision making.

Yesterday in her speech she again emphasized America's role as top dog/protector of democracy/chief of world police.

She reaffirmed her belief in American Exceptionalism and how that makes the U.S. unique in the world and qualified to play the above roles.

You can call this a right wing attack until you're blue in the face, but that won't make it true. Yes, it's an attack- her record and rhetoric; from the LEFT. And it is not a personal attack.

Why was Zelaya really ousted? He drifted left and supported raising the minimum wage- anathema to the Honduran oligarchs.


Dancing with Monsters: The U.S. Response to the 2009 Honduran Coup

<snip>

This makes the 2009 coup in Honduras and the response of then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the U.S. State Department all the more startling. Secretary Clinton’s reaction to the coup was initially ambiguous and evolved to support the replacement government much more rapidly than the United States has done in other foreign states. Her motivations appear to have been numerous, but many are troubling. In particular, her attention to business interests in a matter of state should be concerning. When seeking stability in Honduras, Clinton appears to have valued military and corporate interests above Honduran democratic integrity.

<snip>

Following the coup, President Obama called many times for the reinstatement of Zelaya. In contrast, Secretary of State Clinton made remarks that were far more equivocal. When asked if the United States had any plans to alter aid to the coup government, , “Much of our assistance is conditioned on the integrity of the democratic system. But if we were able to get to a status quo that returned to the rule of law and constitutional order within a relatively short period of time, I think that would be a good outcome.” Clinton seemed to prioritize having a stable regime over preserving democratic ideals.

As further evidence, Clinton wrote in her book, Hard Choices, “In the subsequent days [after the coup] … we strategized on a plan to restore order in Honduras and ensure that free and fair elections could be held quickly and legitimately, which would render the question of Zelaya moot,” revealing that even as the administration publicly advocated for Zelaya’s return, Clinton was not working to ensure that it would happen.

Pastor added that Clinton had personal connections with supporters of the coup government that may have led her to soften her stance. For instance, Lanny Davis, Bill Clinton’s former personal lawyer and a longtime Hillary Clinton supporter, lobbied in Washington for the Honduran coup government, Honduran elites, the Business Council of Latin America, and the American companies that took issue with Zelaya’s reforms. Bennett Ratcliff, another top Democratic campaigner with close ties to the Clintons, also worked for the Honduran coup government as a lobbyist in Washington. These personal connections to advocates for the coup government raise troubling concerns that political ties influenced Clinton’s stance.

<snip>

http://harvardpolitics.com/united-states/us-honduran-coup/



<snip>

In the 5 a.m. darkness of June 28, 2009, more than two hundred armed, masked soldiers stormed the house of Honduran president Manuel Zelaya. Within minutes Zelaya, still in his pajamas, was thrown into a van and taken to a military base used by the U.S., where he was flown out of the country.

It was a military coup, said the UN General Assembly and the Organization of American States (OAS). The entire
EU recalled its countries’ ambassadors, as did Latin American nations. The United States did not, making it virtually the only nation of note to maintain diplomatic relations with the coup government. Though the White House and the Clinton State Department denounced only the second such coup in the Western Hemisphere since the Cold War, Washington hedged in a way that other governments did not. It began to feel like lip service being paid, not real concern.

Washington was dragging its feet, but even within the Obama administration a distinction was seen very early seen between the White House and Secretary Clinton’s State Department. Obama called Zelaya’s removal an illegal “coup” the next day, while Secretary Clinton’s response was described as “holding off on formally branding it a coup.” President Obama carefully avoided calling it a military coup, despite that being the international consensus, because the “military” modifier would have abruptly suspended US military aid to Honduras, an integral site for the US Southern Command, but Obama called for the reinstatementof the elected president of Honduras removed from his country by the military.

<snip>

It was becoming widely believed that the Clinton State Department, along with the right-wing in Washington, was working behind the scenes to make sure that President Zelaya would not return to office. This U.S. cabal was coordinating with those behind the coup, it was being rumored, to bring new elections to Honduras, conducted by an illegal coup government, which would effectively terminate the term of Zelaya, who was illegally deposed in the final year of his constitutionally mandated single term. All this as Honduras was “descending deeper into a human rights and security abyss,” as the coup government was seen to be actually committing crimes worthy of removal from power. Professor Dana Frank, an expert in recent Honduran history at UC Santa Cruz, would charge in the New York Times that the resulting “abyss” in Honduras was “in good part the State Department’s making.”

<snip>

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/08/exclusive_hillary_clinton_sold_out_honduras_lanny_davis_corporate_cash_and_the_real_story_about_the_death_of_a_latin_america_democracy/

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cali

(114,904 posts)
3. thanks, Sam. This is pretty disturbing stuff
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:53 AM
Jun 2015

The more I read about it, the clearer it is that HRC sided with fascist monsters and against the liberals.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
2. Despite serious human rights abuses and a letter from over 90 Congress members
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:52 AM
Jun 2015

asking her to stop aid to the military coup masters, Hillary kept pouring aid in their direction:

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/1170

<snip>

When Honduran military forces allied with rightist lawmakers ousted democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya in 2009, then-Secretary of State Clinton sided with the armed forces and fought global pressure to reinstate him.

Washington wields great influence over Honduras, thanks to the numerous military bases built with U.S. funds where training and joint military and anti-drug operations take place. Since the coup, nearly $350 million in U.S. assistance, including more than $50 million in military aid, has poured into the country.

That’s a lot of investment in a nation where the police, the military, and private security forces are killing people with alarming frequency and impunity, according to Human Rights Watch.

In short, desperate Honduran children are seeking refuge from a human rights nightmare that would cast a dark cloud over Clinton’s presidential bid right now if the media were paying any attention.

<snip>

http://fpif.org/hillary-clintons-real-scandal-honduras-benghazi/

Cheviteau

(383 posts)
5. OK
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 01:31 PM
Jun 2015

I think it is a misguided interpretation of what really happened. It is a tale. Told by an uninformed Hillary hater. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing. Clinton said, “Much of our assistance is conditioned on the integrity of the democratic system. But if we were able to get to a status quo that returned to the rule of law and constitutional order within a relatively short period of time, I think that would be a good outcome.” Then to poster finishes with this sentence: "Clinton seemed to prioritize having a stable regime over preserving democratic ideals". For God's sake! At least TRY to have some consistency in reasoning. For the record, I'm voting Sanders. And forgive my vulgar misuse of Shakespeare.

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
6. How about Clinton having some consistency?
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 01:51 PM
Jun 2015
The chapter on Latin America, particularly the section on Honduras, a major source of the child migrants currently pouring into the United States, has gone largely unnoticed. In letters to Clinton and her successor, John Kerry, more than 100 members of Congress have repeatedly warned about the deteriorating security situation in Honduras, especially since the 2009 military coup that ousted the country’s democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya. As Honduran scholar Dana Frank points out in Foreign Affairs, the U.S.-backed post-coup government “rewarded coup loyalists with top ministries,” opening the door for further “violence and anarchy.”

The homicide rate in Honduras, already the highest in the world, increased by 50 percent from 2008 to 2011; political repression, the murder of opposition political candidates, peasant organizers and LGBT activists increased and continue to this day. Femicides skyrocketed. The violence and insecurity were exacerbated by a generalized institutional collapse. Drug-related violence has worsened amid allegations of rampant corruption in Honduras’ police and government. While the gangs are responsible for much of the violence, Honduran security forces have engaged in a wave of killings and other human rights crimes with impunity.

Despite this, however, both under Clinton and Kerry, the State Department’s response to the violence and military and police impunity has largely been silence, along with continued U.S. aid to Honduran security forces. In “Hard Choices,” Clinton describes her role in the aftermath of the coup that brought about this dire situation. Her firsthand account is significant both for the confession of an important truth and for a crucial false testimony.

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/9/hillary-clinton-honduraslatinamericaforeignpolicy.html


Yep. Bid-ness first. If not too inconvenient, democracy and social issues will be somewhat addressed.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
9. And you have links to support your inventive little narrative, right?
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 02:51 PM
Jun 2015

For the record, I posted far more than opinion, I posted supporting facts. You posted an emotional diatribe.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
10. Greg Grandin says whatever happens in Central America is a dry run for our own "superpower"
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 04:00 PM
Jun 2015

every cent of the over $1.5 billion in aid we sent 1980-89 was for political "democratization" and military "professionalization" but just solidified the military's independent power by 1986, and little was done until the present day even though most Hondurans wanted the Army dissolved entirely since the late 80s; even their encouragement of elections just further legitimates the coup (and they're great for luring out opponents into the street)

if you talk to the wrong guy he goes back to the Embassy and your name appears on a death list

Honduras is more dangerous for journalists than Mexico and Colombia! it's also less LGBT-friendly than Iran, unleashing a wave of transphobia that's left over a hundred dead by most counts, and two hundred more for the cocaine kingpin's Aguán oil-palm plantations

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
13. What is Bernie Sanders' position on the 2009 Honduras coup?
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:32 PM
Jun 2015

It would be interesting to compare and contrast, but I Googled and came up empty.

Is there a reason to believe that BS would have more expertise than HRC on complex Central American geopolitics?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
14. i don't know but it's safe to assume he was strongly against it
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:47 PM
Jun 2015

he has a history of speaking out sharply against U.S. inervention in South and Central America going back to when he was mayor and out of solidarity, forged a sister city relationship with a city in Nicaragua. I'd also bet anything that both he and Leahy signed onto the letter from 90 congresscritters asking Clinton to halt aid to coup government

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
16. Sanders on American-backed coups in central and south America
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 07:44 AM
Jun 2015

Bernie Sanders Explains How The CIA Destroyed Democracy In Latin America






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