I swear Huckabee supporters post on DU!

pretty much everything in human sexuality involves a bell curve.

From my limited knowledge of genetics, it seems things are far more complicated than just somehow dropping a Y chromosome into a fertile ovum. It seems that there is a range of genetic material to be sorted out before sexual identification is sealed. And it doesn't always work out all that well-- hermaphrodites with the organs of both are born more often than we would like, but what's going on seeming "normal" children who might be leaning one way or the other?

And how does genetics affect psychology? Or the other way around?

And then, after we figure all this other stuff out, there's the final question of can a trans person truly be trans? Aside from that troublesome Y, a trans woman didn't grow up having that first period and will never have a baby (yet, anyway) so there's a huge gap in the overall female experience.

There apparently is the physical sex of the person, and the psychological gender of the person, and we haven't quite figured it all out yet.

More bell curves....

From what I've read, there is some relationship between womb environment - prenatal hormone levels - as well.

The experience growing up is not the same as for other women, but that doesn't mean they "chose to become" or "became" women.

I think the real problem here is that we are just beginning to seriously redefine gender and gender roles.

"Male" and "female" just don't mean what they used to any more.

Masculine and feminine refer to gender, male and female refer to biological sex.

since both seem to be in flux, and there is a lot of mixed territory between the two.

But, yeah, that should be pointed out.

I thought when you said "just genetic" you were excluding all other factors. It is not a subject I know too much about so I usually have to ask about it. Although there are no officially recognized genetic factors, we may yet find some as our knowledge about genes and chromosomes increases.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Trans is an umbrella definition for those who do not identify w/ their assigned gender. If a person says they are trans, they are trans. No such thing as "trans enough."



Further, there are Cis-women who never have periods and cannot get pregnant. They are still just as much women as any other, and this holds true for trans women as well.[/font]

this is a new area for serious study and new definitions are needed.

It seems to be evolving, but I can't see how making grandiose statements of fact with old definitions helps.

This how confusion starts along with arguments between people who basically agree.

HIS opinion about what other human beings are is far more important than silly facts or other people's own sense of identity.

"Becoming" doesn't have to imply any period of "pretending," since a big part of our gender identities are what we decide to display--or are pressured into displaying--to our fellow travelers.

I think we ought to avoid absolutes in referring to others' journeys. If the word "become" presumes too much, so, I think, does claiming that there was no transition, especially when we discuss the identity of someone we've never actually known personally.

However she presents these days, or decades from now, I hope that she never has to run from the fact that she once made a damned fine man, too. I'm content to let her tell her own story in her own way.

She had a job as a secretary in another town and I'd never have known save for a boozy conversation. To my credit, I referred to her as "she" and used her preferred name and kept my trap shut around anyone who didn't know. To my disgrace, I was probably less compassionate than I should have been since I didn't know how deep it went. It was just drag being taken a little farther to me back then.

Now I realize how amazing she was, trying to live as who she felt she was. There was little help from the medical community outside Sweden back then. I have to hope she survived AIDS in the 80s and has managed to live a long life as who she was supposed to be.

In other words, this is not new. It's not SSRIs in the water or a new pesticide. It's been around forever, most notably trans men fighting in all major wars. Trans women were less visible.

We don't get to choose our gender any more than we get to choose which sex we fall in love with. I don't begin to understand what being born into the wrong body feels like--how could I? I do recognize the struggle and I do my level best not to add to the pain.

Everything in between. (Unknown)

Even I had to learn about just how deep seeded the gender identity is - calling it a "decision" undermines what Trans people are going through.

She told me that she knew when he was three that he was transgender. He felt he was a girl like his older sisters. It was clear.

Transgender identification has been ignored in families because the parents didn't believe it. Thanks to all who are educating the public, including people who will one day have a transgender child, to this reality.

One of his four daughters is now transgender...he is in his 20's and actually still lives with dad, mom and 2 sisters.

I've known the dad for 20 years...is always supportive of his children...a wonderful father.

It seems it cannot be said enough as there are some who still can't or won't 'get' it.

There's no comparison whatsoever. It was started by a hate group and is a deliberate attack on the trans community. Using this comparison makes you foolish and stupid.

to pretend she was black. If it was not for monetary gain, then maybe she had a psychological desire to experience life as a black person. I know that it is normal to wonder how life is as a person of a different race or gender, perhaps she just took that need to know to an extreme.

To quote my mother's view of human behavior, "There's nowt as queer as folk" (Not a gay slur btw.)

Never judge another until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Since none of us ever could or can----- don't judge others. This is, after all, adulthood--- not a continuation of the grade school playground of years gone by.

condition of the brain, their brains match their identity, while their body does not. And since its easier to change the body than the brain, that is what should be done to alleviate the suffering from gender dysphoria according to the individuals comfort level, of course.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Sadly, the intersex community seems to be completely against this. =([/font]

to the lack of choice that's played in gender identity. Many of them are victims of misguided parents and unethical doctors who assigned them genders they may not feel match after birth.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]But there is a definite push back from many intersex groups against calling transsexuality in anyway intersex. =(

A couple of links showing the rift between the two communities:[/font]

http://www.isna.org/faq/transgender
http://trans-fusion.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/on-trans-gender-identity-and-intersex.html
https://renetaxian.wordpress.com/2011/12/28/the-great-divide/

first, transgender people do NOT want to generally be considered to have a psychological issue or problem. So defensiveness kicks in, if you can point to a physical difference in the brain, then its not just psychological, but physiological, and hence more "real" and possibly acceptable to the larger culture to accept. Note, as of right now, the evidence leans in this direction anyways.

Intersex people are extremely defensive about children being assigned genders before they are old enough to consent. There is an impression that transgender advocates would advocate for this? Not sure why some intersex people think this, but I haven't read all position papers. There's also the question of territory, intersex people do not want transgender people to claim to be intersex because their intersex condition is superficially invisible. Compared to many intersex people whose condition is usually diagnosed at birth.

I think this illustrates some real fears, but all imposed by larger society which fails to deal with non-binary gender issues, gender identity, and brain variance/disorders in general.

To be honest this can, in a very real way, be rolled up into being related to the stigma against mental disorders in that people don't treat those very seriously either. Even though increasing evidence shows differences in the brains of, I'll call them baseline functional people and those with behavior and/or emotional variances. These differences are physical, they may be a cause or a symptom, hopefully, as the mysteries of the brain are shown the light of day, we can find cures for most of them.

To be honest, the evidence is leaning, rather strongly, towards transgender people possessing the brains of the gender they most strongly identify with. This is pretty much all that matters, its real, it happens, it could be genetics, epigenetics, hormones, whatever. The cause doesn't matter so much as the treatment, let them live their lives as they feel they should, let them correct their bodies to allow them to more completely live as the gender they identify with, period. Seems simple.

CLUELESS ASSHOLES

YES INDEED

Sheesh.

If I am right in deducing the post that prompted this OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6834464

On Sun Jun 14, 2015, 08:20 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

If Bruce Jenner can be a woman and Rachel Dolezal can be black,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6834464

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Transphobic. Caitlin Jenner IS a woman.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Jun 14, 2015, 08:37 PM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This one is a jerk. Probably does't one DU
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
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Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Troll.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
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Thank you.

Thank you

I've had no real understanding of this aspect of gender identity, never having knowingly met a trans man or woman. In the last year, though, a young (high school) family member has been exploring this possibility, to the extent of cutting her hair, changing her name, and dressing differently. "Dan" is lucky to have a supportive family who really doesn't care. She hasn't, yet, asked us to change the pronoun she goes by, but when and if the time comes, she'll have no problem with acceptance from her family.

This led me to wonder about a student I had, also this last year; the speculation in the staff room was that he is gay; I wondered differently. Whatever he turns out to be, however he chooses to live, I hope he'll get the support he needs.

It's good to learn new things about people.

Personally, I think that was a courageous decision.