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niyad

(113,306 posts)
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 09:32 PM Jun 2015

Supreme Court Refuses to Hear North Carolina Forced Ultrasound Law (gynoticians lose one!)


Supreme Court Refuses to Hear North Carolina Forced Ultrasound Law

The Supreme Court refused to review a North Carolina mandatory ultrasound law this week, permanently blocking what many feel is the most extreme forced ultrasound law in the nation.
The North Carolina law, which was passed in 2011, requires a physician perform an ultrasound on a patient seeking an abortion at least four house, and no more than 72 hours before the abortion. Also under the law, the physician must display imaging from the ultrasound and describe it to the patient, even if she objects, and even if she covers her eyes and ears, which the law permits.

This law was preliminarily blocked in October 2011 after several North Carolina physicians, medical practices, and organizations including the American Civil Liberties Untion (ALCU) and the Center for Reproductive Rights, filed a lawsuit. A federal court then struck down the law in 2014, when U.S. District Court Judge Catherine C. Eagles ruled that the “speech-and-display” provision of the law violated the First Amendment, and acknowledging that the ultrasound law was designed to persuade women not to obtain abortions. In December of last year, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously upheld this decision.

The Fourth Circuit Court wrote that the law violates doctors’ First Amendment right, and threatens patient well-being, writing:
“[The patient] must endure the embarrassing spectacle of averting her eyes and covering her ears while her physician–a person to whom she should be encouraged to listen–recites information to her. We can perceive no benefit to state interests from walling off patients and physicians in a manner antithetical to the very communication that lies at the heart of the informed consent process.”
. . . . . .


“Women are fully capable of making thoughtful decisions about their families, future, and health without interference from politicians who presume to know better. And all doctors must be free to give patients their best medical judgment, free from talking points dictated by lawmakers advancing an agenda,” said Nancy Northup, president and CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights.

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2015/06/16/supreme-court-refuses-to-hear-north-carolina-forced-ultrasound-law/
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Supreme Court Refuses to Hear North Carolina Forced Ultrasound Law (gynoticians lose one!) (Original Post) niyad Jun 2015 OP
Good news. AuntPatsy Jun 2015 #1
we must celebrate whatever small victories we can. niyad Jun 2015 #2
Agreed than onward to fight for the next victory.. AuntPatsy Jun 2015 #34
sadly, there are too few of them. niyad Jun 2015 #35
Good, hopefully similar rulings will come down on other restrictions like the one in Texas mythology Jun 2015 #3
it is absolutely disgusting and obscene that, in the 21st century, we are still fighting these niyad Jun 2015 #4
Sadly there are still those who believe they have the mythology Jun 2015 #21
lack of self-esteem, fear, ignorance, or, a sense of superiority conferred by one's religious belief niyad Jun 2015 #32
being forced to undergo a procedure neither the doctor nor the patient wants Skittles Jun 2015 #5
Ridiculous BlueJazz Jun 2015 #7
woman-hating obscenity. niyad Jun 2015 #8
Yep, and a host of other unnatural human thoughts. (or should be unnatural). BlueJazz Jun 2015 #9
that is what has these crazies so terrified--the thought that we just might take up arms! niyad Jun 2015 #10
I just thought of a somewhat silly joke> BlueJazz Jun 2015 #13
love it!!! shared it!! niyad Jun 2015 #29
Not to mention practicing medicine without a license. calimary Jun 2015 #14
that is what the gynoticians do!! so, why is it that we cannot sue them? or can we? niyad Jun 2015 #30
That's a great question. We have to start getting more creative and more relentless calimary Jun 2015 #40
The fact that Scalia dissented indicates that he has gone totally off the rails. appal_jack Jun 2015 #6
+1000 mountain grammy Jun 2015 #15
This is actually BAD news. BillZBubb Jun 2015 #11
thank you for bringing this up. niyad Jun 2015 #12
PLUS - the damned violation of her will continue. Just no special effects. The GOP won't be satisied freshwest Jun 2015 #41
I assume the Texas abomination brer cat Jun 2015 #17
From what I've read, Texas pro-choice advocates can't appeal to the SC. BillZBubb Jun 2015 #25
I get your point. lark Jun 2015 #18
It's good news for the women of North Carolina, for now, though. merrily Jun 2015 #19
This ruling may help in Texas Gothmog Jun 2015 #16
No, it won't help. BillZBubb Jun 2015 #24
The Texas case was never appealed to SCOTUS and so there is still a conflict between circuits Gothmog Jun 2015 #26
Yes, there is a conflict. And it will remain. BillZBubb Jun 2015 #28
The counsel that brought the lawsuit is aware of this and is exploring options Gothmog Jun 2015 #33
The SCOTUS blog's description. merrily Jun 2015 #20
The reason is that Scalia is an awful human being. mythology Jun 2015 #22
He is, but that probably is not the reason he would specify. merrily Jun 2015 #23
Thanks for the good news! nt Duval Jun 2015 #27
we need every dribble of it we can find! niyad Jun 2015 #31
Justice Scalia diseented rpannier Jun 2015 #36
indeed. niyad Jun 2015 #37
Actually teh thing that did surprise me was rpannier Jun 2015 #38
I think they have to preserve an image of two people instead of one! niyad Jun 2015 #39
North Popelina (formally North Carolina) is rapidly becoming a failure. AlbertCat Jun 2015 #42
funny how that works, eh? niyad Jun 2015 #43
Making such a mess of things marions ghost Jun 2015 #44

niyad

(113,306 posts)
4. it is absolutely disgusting and obscene that, in the 21st century, we are still fighting these
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 09:39 PM
Jun 2015

Last edited Wed Jun 17, 2015, 09:16 PM - Edit history (1)

archaic, woman-hating laws.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
21. Sadly there are still those who believe they have the
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 03:01 PM
Jun 2015

Right to these laws.

I really can't my head around what makes people want to control others like that.

niyad

(113,306 posts)
32. lack of self-esteem, fear, ignorance, or, a sense of superiority conferred by one's religious belief
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 09:17 PM
Jun 2015

Skittles

(153,160 posts)
5. being forced to undergo a procedure neither the doctor nor the patient wants
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:13 PM
Jun 2015

what exactly is that called?

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
9. Yep, and a host of other unnatural human thoughts. (or should be unnatural).
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:40 PM
Jun 2015

I've said this same old stuff before > Women truly have to put up with so much bullshit that If I were a woman, I'd be one of those nuts that climbs buildings and just start shooting people....No, not really,,..but.. sigh.

niyad

(113,306 posts)
10. that is what has these crazies so terrified--the thought that we just might take up arms!
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:42 PM
Jun 2015

(and NOT the ones we use for hugging!)

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
13. I just thought of a somewhat silly joke>
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:53 PM
Jun 2015

Bob: Good news, some Aliens have landed and they said they'll fix the world for us....the bad news is they're woman and they're pissed off and 20 feet tall.

niyad

(113,306 posts)
30. that is what the gynoticians do!! so, why is it that we cannot sue them? or can we?
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 09:08 PM
Jun 2015

any attorneys out there who can tell us whether or not we have grounds for medical malpractice (or some such) suits against these gynoticians?

calimary

(81,267 posts)
40. That's a great question. We have to start getting more creative and more relentless
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 12:51 AM
Jun 2015

in the way we fight them. Doesn't it feel like we are besieged from all sides? That they're ALWAYS coming, coming, coming at us, ALWAYS attacking, attacking, attacking? Well, WHY THE HELL AREN'T WE DOING THAT BACK AT THEM????

Where's our ALEC? Where are OUR legislators who figure out ways to sneak stuff in that WE want done? Trying to get through the front door doesn't work with the opposition we face. Why can't we figure out how to get around them? That's certainly what the bad guys do all the time? Why aren't WE doing it, and outdoing them???

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
6. The fact that Scalia dissented indicates that he has gone totally off the rails.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:21 PM
Jun 2015

Scalia, a supposed free-speech advocate (I still rather like his 1989 Texas v Johnson opinion re flag burning) was the lone dissenter here. Thus he was supporting a law that would have compelled doctors to give an untruthful and unwanted scripted speech to the patients they are supposed to serve. He is a senile old fool these days, choking on his bile, hypocrisy, and bitterness.

Retire already, Scalia: you have no business 'interpreting' (i.e- trampling) the Constitution any longer!

K&R,

-app

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
11. This is actually BAD news.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:47 PM
Jun 2015

An even more onerous law in Texas was upheld by the ultra-right wing 5th circuit. Since the SC decided not to hear the NC law case, that means no precedent is set on the issue. Which in turn means the Texas law stands.

So, we have a case where women in different parts of the country will be subjected to different obstacles to exercising their rights.

The SC should have heard the case and made what is allowable consistent across the country.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
41. PLUS - the damned violation of her will continue. Just no special effects. The GOP won't be satisied
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 02:48 AM
Jun 2015

until 'the right of first night' is restored to the upper class. Just broodmares, that's all they see.

Not far from the visions of some science fiction and Elliot in CA., where he felt all women should be locked in concentration camps until selected to carry some alpha male's seed to term. Kind of like ISIS or any society that doesn't even give baby girls birth certificates.

They might as well be walking machines. Oh, and they have nothing to say about it in any case. This is not a victory when the major crime was not the sound and sight, but mandated Republican Rape.

The supreme court is allowing Roe v Wade to be destroyed. IOf only people would vote. After the pregnancy begins, they are mandating that she has no vote over the rest of her life, her time and even her health.

brer cat

(24,565 posts)
17. I assume the Texas abomination
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 08:31 AM
Jun 2015

can and will be appealed to the SC, so we still have a shot there. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need consistent rights across the country. I do hope our next president, a dem for sure, will get to replace a couple of the ultra-rights on this SC.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
25. From what I've read, Texas pro-choice advocates can't appeal to the SC.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 05:24 PM
Jun 2015

They missed the deadline to appeal the 5th circuit's right wing decision. Why that happened, I don't know.

Unless they can get the 5th circuit to rehear the case (which the right wing will never allow), the pro choice Texans cannot appeal to the SC.

Screwy yes, but that's the system.

lark

(23,099 posts)
18. I get your point.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:12 PM
Jun 2015

However, given this SCOTUS, I'm glad they didn't hear this as it could easily have gone the wrong way.

Don't trust the Felonious Five one little bit!!!

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
24. No, it won't help.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 05:15 PM
Jun 2015

By not hearing the NC case, the SC let the 5th circuit decision supporting the Texas law stand.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
28. Yes, there is a conflict. And it will remain.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 08:10 PM
Jun 2015

The Texas case was never appealed and the time window to appeal expired. Unless the 5th Circuit agrees to hear the case again (and it won't), the laws opponents cannot get to the SC.

That's the problem.

Gothmog

(145,242 posts)
33. The counsel that brought the lawsuit is aware of this and is exploring options
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 09:20 PM
Jun 2015

Here is the latest from the Texas group http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/2015/06/texas-pro-abortionists-ponder-next-move-in-light-of-supreme-court-ultrasound-decision/#.VYIcaflViko

Speaking through their favorite local outlet—The Texas Tribune— Julie Rikelman (who is the litigation director at the Center for Reproductive Rights which filed suit against both the North Carolina and Texas laws) told Alexa Ura, “We are in the process of evaluating our legal options in light of [the] order out of the Supreme Court which allowed strong lower court rulings to stand.”

The immediate problem is that the Texas ultrasound law was not appealed to the Supreme Court. Ura explained that

Opponents of the Texas abortion sonogram law have already missed the deadline to appeal the 5th Circuit’s decision upholding it, but could now ask the 5th Circuit to reconsider the case, said Lyle Denniston of SCOTUSblog, a judicial blog that analyzes the Supreme Court’s moves.

“The challengers in Texas could go back to the court where they lost and try to get that court to reconsider by arguing that the Texas law is as vulnerable to challenge as the North Carolina law was,” Denniston said, but he added that it’s difficult to convince the appellate court to reconsider a ruling. “The court in the Texas case has a lot of discretion about reopening that case.”


The North Carolina law passed over the veto of the governor in 2011. It requires that an ultrasound image of the unborn child be displayed at least four hours prior to an abortion so that the mother might view it and that she be given the opportunity to hear the unborn child’s heartbeat. The law also provides for a “simultaneous explanation of what the ultrasound is depicting.”

But as NRL News Today reported last December, Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson III, writing for a unanimous three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Court of Appeal, concluded, “The state cannot commandeer the doctor-patient relationship to compel a physician to express its preference to the patient.“ Although Judge Wilkinson conceded the law was “a regulation of the medical profession,” he concluded it was “ideological in intent and in kind.”

This is not going to be easy but it is worth a fight

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
38. Actually teh thing that did surprise me was
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 10:03 PM
Jun 2015

Clarence Thomas wasn't mentioned in dissent
Since Thomas 99.99999999999999% of the time sides with Scalia I just figured he would here as well.
Maybe, given his track record, they're treating it as a given
It's gotten to the point where I half-expaect on anything written by Thomas for it to just say, "Whatever Scalia said."
And I figure if I went to his website, it would just forward me straight to Scalia's

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
42. North Popelina (formally North Carolina) is rapidly becoming a failure.
Thu Jun 18, 2015, 10:38 AM
Jun 2015

Our bought and paid for legislature is finding out that governing by pet peeve is not working out so well. AND probably most surprising to them, a majority doesn't agree with them.

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