Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
So we killed another Al Qaeda #2. Question: (Original Post) Bonobo Jun 2015 OP
We killed a bad guy, and he was our enemy. kwassa Jun 2015 #1
Non-responsive. Move to strike. nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #2
Objection over-ruled. Valid answer, valid point. nt jazzimov Jun 2015 #26
+1 /nt nsd Jun 2015 #59
Since this guy set up the underwear bomber and other attacks, I don't think he was a friend. Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #3
Np doubt, but are you able to move one step beyond that in thinking? Bonobo Jun 2015 #5
Your thinking is not our thinking. kwassa Jun 2015 #8
Your thinking seems to stop pretty quickly. Bonobo Jun 2015 #13
No, you're not. There is nothing deep about your question. kwassa Jun 2015 #27
In that case, the false premise is that the wife IS being beaten. Bonobo Jun 2015 #33
That creating enemies or friends is the point of drone use. kwassa Jun 2015 #34
It may not be the point. But it is the result. Bonobo Jun 2015 #36
Not necessarily. kwassa Jun 2015 #38
I certainly do JonLP24 Jun 2015 #56
"War leads to war, violence leads to violence." Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #47
I wish you would not place us on the same level as Al Quaeda in terms of how we should act. nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #51
This is the question you posed: Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #9
If he lived in a vacuum, yes. Bonobo Jun 2015 #14
You understand what I posted the first time, now who knows what is understood. Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #16
Huh? nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #17
Need a translator? Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #18
Yeah, I only speak Japanese and English. nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #19
You can locate those on the internet. Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #21
Nothing would help in clearing up what this means: Bonobo Jun 2015 #22
There isn't anythink simpler I can give you. Thinkingabout Jun 2015 #28
I agree. nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #32
Not the first time someone asked to translate that poster's mess JonLP24 Jun 2015 #57
I only know one other poster that is so unable to form an intelligible sentence. Bonobo Jun 2015 #58
Rachel had a really good segment about this tonight. femmocrat Jun 2015 #4
US attacks like this create more enemies. Cali_Democrat Jun 2015 #6
No. Attacks like this kill the people attacking us. Drones work. kwassa Jun 2015 #10
So....how much longer do we have to do this for? Cali_Democrat Jun 2015 #20
As long as it takes. kwassa Jun 2015 #23
Endless war. Cali_Democrat Jun 2015 #24
Um, they are attacking us. kwassa Jun 2015 #31
That is fucking priceless. nt Bonobo Jun 2015 #25
thank you! kwassa Jun 2015 #30
By this method it will never be over. herding cats Jun 2015 #35
I think you are wrong. kwassa Jun 2015 #37
Let me clarify for you. herding cats Jun 2015 #40
I understood your point the first time. No clarification needed. kwassa Jun 2015 #41
Could you please answer my question? herding cats Jun 2015 #45
They are not western in thought but they are also redstateblues Jun 2015 #44
I'll ask you this. herding cats Jun 2015 #46
How come our actions are denounced as creating more strife but theirs aren't? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #49
I don't know what you mean my "stop radicalizing us." herding cats Jun 2015 #55
Those that hate us and wish us harm will still hate us and wish us harm... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #7
Why would people be upset? Travis_0004 Jun 2015 #11
Well, whoever just got promoted to the open #2 position, should be a little worried. ohnoyoudidnt Jun 2015 #29
Heavy is the head that wears the crown... DemocratSinceBirth Jun 2015 #39
Both can be true. GeorgeGist Jun 2015 #12
No, they can't. Bonobo Jun 2015 #15
What would you do if someone told you redstateblues Jun 2015 #42
I would first decide if they had the capability. Bonobo Jun 2015 #43
I would say that this specific action made one less. But it did little petronius Jun 2015 #48
America worships military might. Maedhros Jun 2015 #50
We have to be successful 100% of the time JonLP24 Jun 2015 #52
I thought he was dead years ago Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2015 #53
Why are we killing anybody? Cleita Jun 2015 #54

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
5. Np doubt, but are you able to move one step beyond that in thinking?
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:53 PM
Jun 2015

I mean, yes, not a friend, Agreed.

But can you take just one more little step in thinking past that?

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
13. Your thinking seems to stop pretty quickly.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:15 PM
Jun 2015

I'm encouraging you to think a little more deeply.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
27. No, you're not. There is nothing deep about your question.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:40 PM
Jun 2015

this is a question along the lines of :

"Have you stopped beating your wife? Answer yes or no."

Either answer endorses your false premise.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
36. It may not be the point. But it is the result.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:57 PM
Jun 2015

War leads to war, violence leads to violence.

It is an endless, inescapable circle.

I did not think this needed to be explained here and I am pretty disappointed, but not surprised.

Sadly, I think those are the things you MUST come to accept and apologize for if you are a true Hillary supporter and that is ultimately the most troubling thing about our party's drift to the right.

It is the people it takes along with it.

I won't bother arguing with you.

If you are so simplistic to think that firing missiles all over the place is going to increase peace and safety for us, there is no point in talking to you any further.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
38. Not necessarily.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:07 AM
Jun 2015

But I don't think you engage on any kind of deep level the issues that this region of the world is struggling with. I think you are generally opposed to all war, without knowledge of any of the specifics of this war.

We are not firing missiles all over the place. We are targeting specific individuals. We have been fairly successful at getting them.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
56. I certainly do
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:11 AM
Jun 2015


http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/global-opposition-to-u-s-surveillance-and-drones-but-limited-harm-to-americas-image/

but whatever believe the BS from the people in charge who you think have the best intentions meanwhile the result is more weapon sales, sadness, anger and recruits.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
9. This is the question you posed:
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:59 PM
Jun 2015

Did we make one LESS enemy of the U.S?

I said he was not a friend, now can you take a step further, I said he wasn't a friend, he is has been removed and a conclusion would be there was one less enemy of the US.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
22. Nothing would help in clearing up what this means:
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:29 PM
Jun 2015

"You understand what I posted the first time, now who knows what is understood."

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
57. Not the first time someone asked to translate that poster's mess
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:14 AM
Jun 2015

I'm not joking either, "translate, please&quot I think) was a reply.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
58. I only know one other poster that is so unable to form an intelligible sentence.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:24 AM
Jun 2015

But they are on time out, so it COULDN'T be.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
4. Rachel had a really good segment about this tonight.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:48 PM
Jun 2015

The person* who is replacing him is (allegedly, maybe?) responsible for planning to blow up two planes with undetected bombs hidden in printer cartridges. A Saudi official alerted the US to the plot and the bombs were found in time to avert a monumental disaster.

Excellent reporting by Rachel.

On edit: *The successor's name: Tweets from known AQAP operatives also spoke of al-Wuhayshi having been martyred, and of AQAP military commander Qasm al-Rimi (also known as Abu Hureira al-Sanaani) having been appointed as al-Wuhayshi's replacement.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/15/middleeast/yemen-aqap-leader-killed/

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
6. US attacks like this create more enemies.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:55 PM
Jun 2015

How many times have we killed the #2?

It's like we kill the Al Qaeda #2 every 6 months or so.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
10. No. Attacks like this kill the people attacking us. Drones work.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:00 PM
Jun 2015

the best alternative to putting our own troops on the ground and risking their lives.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
20. So....how much longer do we have to do this for?
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:23 PM
Jun 2015

We killed Bin Laden and numerous number twos.

Can we finally declare victory and go home?

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
35. By this method it will never be over.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jun 2015

You do realize that, don't you?

Yes, he was a bad man, but every time well kill one of their bad men, more are drawn to the cause. Thus more bad men are born. That's the crux of the problem, we don't understand how to deal with the concept of the culture that motivates them. We see everything through glasses tinted in a Western hue. But, they're not like us. They're not Western in thoughts nor culture, they don't have the same perspectives we do and killing them isn't going to change that. Ever.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
37. I think you are wrong.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:03 AM
Jun 2015
every time well kill one of their bad men, more are drawn to the cause.


I think this is completely false.

People are drawn to a cause because of their belief in that cause, not by drone attacks. Blame the madrassa system in the Middle East, set up by Saudi money, the salafis, the Wahhabist belief system exported throughout the region for this cause. Do you know about this history?

We are attacking terrorists that haven already proven they are trying to kill us. This is a war. This is warfare.

Every so often I encounter this naivete on DU that suggests that if we simply ignore these people, they will go away. No, they will attack again.

Islamic State is a product of this export of Wahhabism. They were quite busy murdering many thousands of other Muslims who are not as fanatical as they are, long before we starting hitting them with air attacks and drones.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
40. Let me clarify for you.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:11 AM
Jun 2015

Each time we kill one of theirs we draw more to the cause of hating America for our actions. We are making the problem for Americans worse, not better. For the past 14 years we've not made any gains in ending extremist hate of the US. However, we have managed to increase it with our own actions.

By our current methods, how do you honestly think this will ever end?

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
41. I understood your point the first time. No clarification needed.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:23 AM
Jun 2015

and I don't agree with it.

Each time we kill one of theirs we draw more to the cause of hating America for our actions. We are making the problem for Americans worse, not better. For the past 14 years we've not made any gains in ending extremist hate of the US. However, we have managed to increase it with our own actions.


I think everything in your statement here is untrue.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
45. Could you please answer my question?
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:40 AM
Jun 2015

Since you seem to have such strong opinions. Please, expound on them. Saying "you're wrong" and alluding your knowledge by decrying the naivete of those you disagree with isn't an answer. It's actually rude by our social standards.

Please, answer my question you ignored.

By our current methods, how do you honestly think this will ever end?


I'll add a followup question since you've only said the excerpt you chose to highlight from my previous statement was "untrue" without any explanation.

Why is that untrue? Do you think we've actually made any sort of progress at ending the extremist hate of the US in the past 14 years? If so how and why?

I'm very interested in your thinking on this matter.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
44. They are not western in thought but they are also
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:39 AM
Jun 2015

Trying to return the Middle East to the 14th century. Do you not think they have ambitions to annihilate us? I am essentially an isolationist but there will eventually be a confrontation even if we close down all our far flung military bases. Just as we are doing domestically, if we have to take them out one or two at a time, so be it. Maybe the Kurds and Shiite militias can stop them- maybe not. There are no good answers.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
46. I'll ask you this.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:44 AM
Jun 2015

The other person has chosen not to answer me so far, hopefully they will yet. By our current methods, how do you honestly think this will ever end?

I don't delude myself into thinking these are good or just people. They're not. But, we've done nothing but increase the extremist in the ME/SE Asia and inflame their hatred of the US for the past 14 years. How can our current methods be the correct path if we're not actually making any progress, and actually making matters worse?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
49. How come our actions are denounced as creating more strife but theirs aren't?
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:57 AM
Jun 2015

It's like they get a free pass on being the biggest bastards ever but Heaven forbid we respond because that makes it worse. Does doing nothing make it better? Are they appeasable?

What does it take to make them stop radicalizing us?

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
55. I don't know what you mean my "stop radicalizing us."
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:09 AM
Jun 2015

What I'm asking is, since our current methods aren't producing anything but more hatred by the extremist against US citizens, how is this fixing anything? What have we accomplished?

We've tried this method, and failed at it, for 14 years now. That's not a small amount of time.

We're not making things better, either for the people in the ravaged regions or our own citizens.

So, by our current methods, how do you honestly think this will ever end?

ETA: Please, don't get angry and react. I'm not trying to make anyone angry. I just want someone who has a clue about what our end goal is supposed to be to explain it to me. Without being a jerk, if that's possible.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
7. Those that hate us and wish us harm will still hate us and wish us harm...
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:56 PM
Jun 2015

Those that hate us and wish us harm will still hate us and wish us harm but now they will be short one leader.

ohnoyoudidnt

(1,858 posts)
29. Well, whoever just got promoted to the open #2 position, should be a little worried.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:43 PM
Jun 2015

They never seem to last very long.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
15. No, they can't.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:17 PM
Jun 2015

Their is a net calculation.

Did our action result in one less or more. They can't both be true.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
42. What would you do if someone told you
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:23 AM
Jun 2015

They were coming to kill your family? That is essentially what they are saying. ,

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
43. I would first decide if they had the capability.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:37 AM
Jun 2015

If they were 6,000 miles away, I would probably forget about it as a threat.

petronius

(26,602 posts)
48. I would say that this specific action made one less. But it did little
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:57 AM
Jun 2015

to nothing to alleviate that factors that will create more...

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
50. America worships military might.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:04 AM
Jun 2015

The worst possible sin is to question the necessity of the killing.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
52. We have to be successful 100% of the time
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 01:08 AM
Jun 2015

Go after the head of the snake = Saudi Arabia & the rest of the Wahabbi states but Al-Qaeda or whoever only needs to be successful 1% of the time (9/11)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»So we killed another Al Q...