General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo we killed another Al Qaeda #2. Question:
Did we make one LESS enemy of the U.S?
Or does it we make MORE enemies of the U.S?
Both cannot be true. You MUST pick one.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)jazzimov
(1,456 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I mean, yes, not a friend, Agreed.
But can you take just one more little step in thinking past that?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I'm encouraging you to think a little more deeply.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)this is a question along the lines of :
"Have you stopped beating your wife? Answer yes or no."
Either answer endorses your false premise.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)What is MY false premise?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)That is your false premise.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)War leads to war, violence leads to violence.
It is an endless, inescapable circle.
I did not think this needed to be explained here and I am pretty disappointed, but not surprised.
Sadly, I think those are the things you MUST come to accept and apologize for if you are a true Hillary supporter and that is ultimately the most troubling thing about our party's drift to the right.
It is the people it takes along with it.
I won't bother arguing with you.
If you are so simplistic to think that firing missiles all over the place is going to increase peace and safety for us, there is no point in talking to you any further.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)But I don't think you engage on any kind of deep level the issues that this region of the world is struggling with. I think you are generally opposed to all war, without knowledge of any of the specifics of this war.
We are not firing missiles all over the place. We are targeting specific individuals. We have been fairly successful at getting them.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/global-opposition-to-u-s-surveillance-and-drones-but-limited-harm-to-americas-image/
but whatever believe the BS from the people in charge who you think have the best intentions meanwhile the result is more weapon sales, sadness, anger and recruits.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I wish al Quaeda would buy into that.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Did we make one LESS enemy of the U.S?
I said he was not a friend, now can you take a step further, I said he wasn't a friend, he is has been removed and a conclusion would be there was one less enemy of the US.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Are you really "thinking about"?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)"You understand what I posted the first time, now who knows what is understood."
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I'm not joking either, "translate, please" I think) was a reply.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)But they are on time out, so it COULDN'T be.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)The person* who is replacing him is (allegedly, maybe?) responsible for planning to blow up two planes with undetected bombs hidden in printer cartridges. A Saudi official alerted the US to the plot and the bombs were found in time to avert a monumental disaster.
Excellent reporting by Rachel.
On edit: *The successor's name: Tweets from known AQAP operatives also spoke of al-Wuhayshi having been martyred, and of AQAP military commander Qasm al-Rimi (also known as Abu Hureira al-Sanaani) having been appointed as al-Wuhayshi's replacement.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/15/middleeast/yemen-aqap-leader-killed/
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)How many times have we killed the #2?
It's like we kill the Al Qaeda #2 every 6 months or so.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)the best alternative to putting our own troops on the ground and risking their lives.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)We killed Bin Laden and numerous number twos.
Can we finally declare victory and go home?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)it is over when it is over.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Yippee.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)You do realize that, don't you?
Yes, he was a bad man, but every time well kill one of their bad men, more are drawn to the cause. Thus more bad men are born. That's the crux of the problem, we don't understand how to deal with the concept of the culture that motivates them. We see everything through glasses tinted in a Western hue. But, they're not like us. They're not Western in thoughts nor culture, they don't have the same perspectives we do and killing them isn't going to change that. Ever.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)every time well kill one of their bad men, more are drawn to the cause.
I think this is completely false.
People are drawn to a cause because of their belief in that cause, not by drone attacks. Blame the madrassa system in the Middle East, set up by Saudi money, the salafis, the Wahhabist belief system exported throughout the region for this cause. Do you know about this history?
We are attacking terrorists that haven already proven they are trying to kill us. This is a war. This is warfare.
Every so often I encounter this naivete on DU that suggests that if we simply ignore these people, they will go away. No, they will attack again.
Islamic State is a product of this export of Wahhabism. They were quite busy murdering many thousands of other Muslims who are not as fanatical as they are, long before we starting hitting them with air attacks and drones.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Each time we kill one of theirs we draw more to the cause of hating America for our actions. We are making the problem for Americans worse, not better. For the past 14 years we've not made any gains in ending extremist hate of the US. However, we have managed to increase it with our own actions.
By our current methods, how do you honestly think this will ever end?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)and I don't agree with it.
Each time we kill one of theirs we draw more to the cause of hating America for our actions. We are making the problem for Americans worse, not better. For the past 14 years we've not made any gains in ending extremist hate of the US. However, we have managed to increase it with our own actions.
I think everything in your statement here is untrue.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Since you seem to have such strong opinions. Please, expound on them. Saying "you're wrong" and alluding your knowledge by decrying the naivete of those you disagree with isn't an answer. It's actually rude by our social standards.
Please, answer my question you ignored.
I'll add a followup question since you've only said the excerpt you chose to highlight from my previous statement was "untrue" without any explanation.
Why is that untrue? Do you think we've actually made any sort of progress at ending the extremist hate of the US in the past 14 years? If so how and why?
I'm very interested in your thinking on this matter.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Trying to return the Middle East to the 14th century. Do you not think they have ambitions to annihilate us? I am essentially an isolationist but there will eventually be a confrontation even if we close down all our far flung military bases. Just as we are doing domestically, if we have to take them out one or two at a time, so be it. Maybe the Kurds and Shiite militias can stop them- maybe not. There are no good answers.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)The other person has chosen not to answer me so far, hopefully they will yet. By our current methods, how do you honestly think this will ever end?
I don't delude myself into thinking these are good or just people. They're not. But, we've done nothing but increase the extremist in the ME/SE Asia and inflame their hatred of the US for the past 14 years. How can our current methods be the correct path if we're not actually making any progress, and actually making matters worse?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)It's like they get a free pass on being the biggest bastards ever but Heaven forbid we respond because that makes it worse. Does doing nothing make it better? Are they appeasable?
What does it take to make them stop radicalizing us?
herding cats
(19,564 posts)What I'm asking is, since our current methods aren't producing anything but more hatred by the extremist against US citizens, how is this fixing anything? What have we accomplished?
We've tried this method, and failed at it, for 14 years now. That's not a small amount of time.
We're not making things better, either for the people in the ravaged regions or our own citizens.
So, by our current methods, how do you honestly think this will ever end?
ETA: Please, don't get angry and react. I'm not trying to make anyone angry. I just want someone who has a clue about what our end goal is supposed to be to explain it to me. Without being a jerk, if that's possible.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Those that hate us and wish us harm will still hate us and wish us harm but now they will be short one leader.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Everybody in al Qaeda just got a promotion.
ohnoyoudidnt
(1,858 posts)They never seem to last very long.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)That's why Tony let Uncle Junior think he was the boss...
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Their is a net calculation.
Did our action result in one less or more. They can't both be true.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)They were coming to kill your family? That is essentially what they are saying. ,
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)If they were 6,000 miles away, I would probably forget about it as a threat.
petronius
(26,602 posts)to nothing to alleviate that factors that will create more...
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)The worst possible sin is to question the necessity of the killing.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Go after the head of the snake = Saudi Arabia & the rest of the Wahabbi states but Al-Qaeda or whoever only needs to be successful 1% of the time (9/11)
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)It solves nothing. Another one rises to fill the vacancy.