General Discussion

KitSileya

(4,035 posts) Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:00 PM Jun 2015

"He made a lot of racist jokes"

I never heard him say anything, but just he had that kind of Southern pride, I guess some would say. Strong conservative beliefs," he (Mullins, Roof's former classmate) said. "He made a lot of racist jokes, but you don't really take them seriously like that. You don't really think of it like that."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html

He never said anything, but he made a lot of racist jokes. You don't take them seriously. How about we start taking them seriously? How about we acknowledge that racist jokes, rape jokes, homophobic jokes are in fact racist, misogynistic, homophobic? How about we acknowledge that telling racist, rape, homophobic jokes makes you a racist, misogynist, homophobe? How about we acknowledge that telling these kinds of jokes have only one purpose, and that is to gauge the audience and their attitude to racism, rape, and homophobia? To gauge who in the audience agrees with you? Who in the audience is likely to think the jokes inappropriate, but still not raise a fuss? And whether those who disagree with you lack enough support from the cowards that they are forced to make the terrible bargain of swallowing shit or be considered the one making things awkward?

If we dismiss racist jokes as not serious, we are either a racist or we give cover to those who are. For people of color, these categories are conflated, the same - our intent is meaningless, only our actions count.

If we dismiss rape jokes as not serious, we support rape. For victims past and future, it doesn't matter how opposed to rape you are if you don't speak up against rape jokes when you have the privilege of not having experienced rape yourself. You support rapists.

If we dismiss homophobic jokes as not serious, we are condoning discrimination against QUILTBAG people. We are putting stones to their burden while they fight for equality, and we are making it easier for them to be fired, thrown out, killed.

(Caveat: members of minority groups should always, always consider their own safety in these situations, even if they have the privilege that is being upheld. Racists are often sexists, and sexists are often homophobic, and homophobes are often racists, as well, after all.)

8 replies

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"He made a lot of racist jokes" (Original Post) KitSileya Jun 2015 OP

K & R this cannot be repeated enough AuntPatsy Jun 2015 #1

Everybody else thought they were jokes, I think he took them seriously ck4829 Jun 2015 #2

Why did they think they were jokes? Why didn't they take them seriously? KitSileya Jun 2015 #3

They very well could have taken them seriously ck4829 Jun 2015 #5

And his father mainstreetonce Jun 2015 #4

Absolutely a sign that his surroundings didn't want to see reality KitSileya Jun 2015 #7

"I never heard him say anything" = "he made a lot of racist jokes." Rex Jun 2015 #6

Which is why we have to examine our own behavior. KitSileya Jun 2015 #8

AuntPatsy

(9,904 posts)

1. K & R this cannot be repeated enough

Reply to KitSileya (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:06 PM

Jun 2015

ck4829

(35,093 posts)

2. Everybody else thought they were jokes, I think he took them seriously

Reply to KitSileya (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:08 PM

Jun 2015

I think he dropped out of school, started popping painkillers, and committing petty crimes. But his habit got too expensive, he stirred from his stupor and found out that his friends were living their lives and the black classmates he made fun of are more successful than him, if you get on his Facebook page, you will see that one of the people on it is now a medical technician for the Air Force. His whiteness alone could no longer be considered an achievement, and it went all downhill from there.

Reality ensued for Roof at some point very recently and the jokes he thought were funny became jealousy and then that became rage.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)

3. Why did they think they were jokes? Why didn't they take them seriously?

Reply to ck4829 (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:11 PM

Jun 2015

That is my question, or rather my point is an exhortation to take them seriously. Racist jokes are never not serious. They are never not racist. And if we white people sit by and let Aunt Rhonda/Tim the secretary/the deacon at our church tell racist jokes without confronting them, we are covering for racists, and persons of color have every right to think of us as racist and unsafe as well.

ck4829

(35,093 posts)

5. They very well could have taken them seriously

Reply to KitSileya (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:14 PM

Jun 2015

We shouldn't give racist jokes, sexist jokes, or homophobic 'jokes' any quarter. We shouldn't be humoring the joke teller. I think he took them as something to hold onto and it became cognitive dissonance.

mainstreetonce

(4,178 posts)

4. And his father

Reply to ck4829 (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:12 PM

Jun 2015

gave him a gun.

White parents take heed.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)

7. Absolutely a sign that his surroundings didn't want to see reality

Reply to mainstreetonce (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:19 PM

Jun 2015

It just amazes me that a gun could be an accepted birthday present, but that battle is being fought on other threads. I don't want this thread to become a place where people defend the notion that everyone have the right to have guns.

Rex

(65,616 posts)

6. "I never heard him say anything" = "he made a lot of racist jokes."

Reply to KitSileya (Original post)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:17 PM

Jun 2015

And THAT is the problem right there...racist jokes are the same as nothing at all to some.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)

8. Which is why we have to examine our own behavior.

Reply to Rex (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 18, 2015, 03:24 PM

Jun 2015

Do we let these jokes slide because we don't want to create awkwardness? Do we let grandpa tell his racist jokes at the Thanksgiving table because, after all, it's a family holiday and he's so old? I think we who are not persons of color need to step up and actually accept that racists make things awkward, and that racists ruin holidays and that racists might get us fired. That is no excuse not to say anything - people of color live with that every second of every day, after all. It is upon us to create a society in which the Dylann Roofs of this world stand out like sore thumbs, and meet resistance wherever they go in polite society.

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