She is obviously part of the problem. She knows her state is full of racist and doesn't want to upset them. She might lose her seat as Gov. if she did.

You are correct, Haley is part of the problem.

the flag. South Carolina is "a whole other country." (Sorry, Texas. I stole your tourism line.)

It's just so hard to fathom that level of hatred.

Roy Barnes responded to calls to replace the flag and passed the 2001-2003 flag through the state assembly. Scummy Perdue promised he would "bring a referendum on the old flag," meaning the 1956-2001 state flag with the Confederate saltire. This mobilized all the right wing shitheads who normally couldn't be bothered to give up cockfighting and incest to go out and vote. The referendum that resulted did not include the 1956-2001 flag, it was between the 2001-2003 flag and a new design that eventually passed as the current flag.

"Sonny Lied" signs were posted on fenceposts and derelict mobile homes all over rural Georgia in 2003-2004 and the racist rightwingers all called for a new referendum, but to no avail thankfully.

Thanks, I needed the chuckle.

I always thought "Blazing Saddles" and "The Producers" were Mel Brooks' twin peaks of genius. I still have to dance during "Springtime for Hitler".

...but she promises to fly it at half-staff if Dylann is executed.

term limited. Now don't get your hopes up. The next gov with hold the exact same view.

She is like plenty of politicians who have no backbone and will do or say anything to get elected and stay there.

My favorite is John McCain, there can be no other excuse for Sarah Palin....he thought a woman on the ticket would get him elected. The fact that she was physically attractive may have kept him from questioning her ability.

hopes of getting women, especially Hillary supporter/PUMAs, to cross party lines. It was hitting two political birds with one box of rocks.

It's going to take a lot more than Gov. Haley losing her seat to get that racist flag taken down.

The argument for flying the Confederate flag is that South Carolinians want to honor their history, their southern heritage and their relatives who died fighting for the South. Ok, what if the State of Bavaria made the same argument for flying the swastika --- honoring their history, southern German heritage, and war dead? My guess is there would be almost universal outrage and a world-wide boycott of that German state if not all of Germany.

If SC doesn't take down that symbol of black subjugation and racism, then there should be a boycott of it ---- like what was threatened in Arizona over "papers, please" and in Indiana over anti-gay legislation. Both threatened boycotts worked because the huge economic downturn from lost professional sports events, business development, tourism, and conventions etc. Enough debate over the flag, it's time to act.

If she said take it down, she would be impeached.

to remove the flag. However, that's just an excuse. Governor Haley could easily declare a state of emergency and have the National Guard remove the flag, pole and all. Since it is a symbol of racial hatred and slavery, its presence is an incitement to violence. She could take it down, but won't.

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone where SC and its leaders stand on issues related to any form of discrimination. The southern states and its citizens are hurting enough without laws like the Affordable Health Care Act not to take legal action to alleviate their very negative world-wide image. Corporate world headquarters, factories, and tourism will not come calling. These states have basically created sanctions against themselves, that's how dumb the populace apparently is.

...in the 1950s.

Black folks knew "their place" then.

Isn't that what her parents are?

She should be ashamed since she's also a person of color.

what could have happened to her parents . They're Sikh (and she was raised that way).

http://wbay.com/2015/06/19/charleston-shooting-brings-back-painful-memories-for-sikh-temple-survivor/

The mass shooting at an historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina, brought back painful memories for people who survived the 2012 Sikh Temple shooting in Oak Creek.

Our Milwaukee sister station WISN spoke with Dr. Jadit Kaleka who lost his brother, Satwant Singh Kaleka, when white supremacist Wade Michael Page stormed the place of worship near Milwaukee.

A woman getting elected governor in the 50's wasn't too likely either.

She sounds like a leader who is actually getting led.

In the 1950s, it would have been almost impossible for a woman to be elected governor (before the 1970s, only three women had been ever been elected as governors of American states, all as replacements or stand-ins for their husbands); or for a member of any visible ethnic minority to be elected governor, especially in the South.

As others have pointed out, the Confederate Flag proponents would be more interested in going back to the 1850s than the 1950s. At that time, women couldn't even vote.

So Haley would not benefit much from a return to such earlier times. However, many of her constituents would very vocally like it, and too much opposition on her part to their views could lead at best to defeat at the next election, and at worst to violence or even assassination.

Not to minimize the effect the Confederate Flag has on African Americans, but the continued use of the flag makes it impossible for many in the South to work past their historical grievances and recognize how racism has been institutionalized. They are holding on to an unhealthy hatred that endangers democracy.

Haley said she was talking with her child, and said it was just hard to explain. No, Governor, it's really easy to explain, you just don't like what it means for yourself. She was asked about what it might mean for South Carolina to consider the free and easy access to firearms. No, no, see, everyone wants to blame all kinds of things, but the Governor said the only culprit here was the shooter. Not the gun, not the killer's easy access to guns, not the culture of violence and racism, not anything that would inconvenience Gov. Haley or any of her pals.

See why it's impossible for Gov. Haley to explain this to her child? See why it's impossible to have a public discussion about this? See why nothing will happen again?

Thank you. I cannot watch it.

If I had a drinking game where I had to drink a beer every time she used that word, I would be dead drunk by now.

Full of wind - typical politician. She's powerless and knows it. It's the rednecks sitting in the state's legislative buildings that are going to make a decision - not her.

that's the sad reality.

I may be from the most liberal county in Mass. or the US for that matter (retired in AZ - when this state had the Napolitano WALL) and perhaps my way of thinking has been skewed - ya' know..- peel back the onion - get to the root cause - determine the opportunity and create solutions -

I just can't find a place to put this Nikki person's way of thinking, or those who can't see the MOTIVE, in this case, for someone to walk into a church and start killing and hurting PEOPLE - so many people - so many families hurt today....

I sent an email YESTERDAY - using a SC address and zip code to this poor excuse for a governor and a poor excuse for a woman for that matter..

My message - YOU WANT MOTIVE EXPLAINED? - YOU SIGNED THE GUN LAW ALLOWING GUNS IN CHURCHES..YOU FLY THE MOST VILE FLAG OVER THE CAPITOL BUILDING IN YOUR STATE...THERE IS MOTIVE NIKKI

ON A DAY WHEN THE SCOTUS AGREED (ALBET SURPRISINGLY) THAT TEXAS COULD DENY THE SONS OF THE CONFEDERATE VETERANS THEIR VILE LICENSE PLATE...

GET A CLUE gov (on purpose) - TAKE DOWN THE FLAG! - FIX THE GUN LAWS!

We fought a war against them once... and kicked their asses.

the historian-author behind that great TV documentary on the Civil War.

I really feel it's time to start burning it in public. It is the Flag of Treason. The South has never realized that for their rebellion the punishment they received was slight, and that in every other nation of that time, the punishment they would have received would be what happens in Saudi Arabia every day. Along with the wholesale approbation of everything they owned.

At the end of the Civil War every thing should have been turned over to their former slaves, and the Rebels given a one way ticket out of the country. Because today, the problem would not be with us.

Perhaps it needs to be strengthened to include all businesses that are in South Carolina.

next best action - you bet - I'm in - have a burn - rip to shreds - stomp on it! -

with 300000 people a part of the racist 'stormfront' group on the internet, how many more are behind closed door, accepting of their racist ideology? Extrapolate that to the white supremacist groups in this country and you have enough at 1 dollars a pop to make a darren wilson a millionaire and more really. S.C. won't suffer, at all, from an economic boycott. Won't end the racist nature of that state, it's governor and MOST of it's people.

I've absolutely had it with these fucking people.

29572 - 29575 - etc etc...I did yesterday when she was looking for a motive..

..now she sure is kickin' up the death penalty fur sur - and now she says - "we can talk about taking down the flag" - the emphasis on death penalty - "let's talk" about removing the flag! - if she hears from enough of us..maybe - just maybe - oh and a shredding and a stomping and a burning of the flag everywhere...it's a start....

this is the way to go

It's absolutely disgusting that that flag still flies anywhere in that state. It should be outlawed everywhere in this country.

That is exactly how I'll refer to it from now on. Perfect!

And that's what I'm calling it from now on too.

and they are the only people she listens to about racism:

It reflects your inner racist.

but in this century, and the last one, it is a racist symbol.

Those waving stars and bars were shooting and killing soldiers fighting for the USA.

state house?

readers of teleprompters anymore.

Which is entirely different!!

Palin is a clown and national joke.

Haley is a "successful" politician and if she goes national will have a larger base, more $$, and more gravitas.

TAKE DOWN THE FLAG!

or compensation. Why not reinstitute the guillotine, Haley? That would really freak everyone out.

Removing the Confederate flag from the state capital would send a stronger message: South Carolina does not promote racism.

Another deterrent would be to hold families of the perpetrators personally and financially responsible. Everyone in Roof's family knew he was "a loner," with some sort of problem, yet the father gave him a gun? Sue, sue, sue.

admitting that racism is still rampant in S.C. or that there are at least 19 active hate groups operating there (according to the SPLC). Of course that would mean committing political suicide.

I lived in S.C. twice. The last time, I was there from "89-2010. During that time, the confederate flag flew over the state house, much to the dismay of the Black citizens and their supporters.

Long story short: a compromise was reached to include the following: The confederate flag no longer flies over the Capitol building, but does fly next to the Confederate Memorial in front of the statehouse. There is an A.A. memorial behind the Capitol.

Personally, I abhor that the conf. flag is flying anywhere for any reason, and I say this as a white person who grew up in the segregated South (Va.).

Some use "heritage" as an excuse to fly the Stars and Bars. That's a crock, imo. I had paternal great grandfathers, g. uncles, and numerous cousins who fought for the Confederacy (my grandmother was a charter member of the UDC ), but I don't need to fly that flag to honor my ancestors.

I have news for Nikki. If she wants to "heal", then she'd better find a way to remove that cancerous relic from the statehouse grounds.


















).

creates the environment of pressure to finally remove that symbol from public display.

Certainly on government buildings, and we can hope in private society as well.

Goldie Taylor on the Bill Press show this a.m.: 'That flag is locked into place.'


The South Carolina and American flags fly at half-staff as the Confederate flag unfurls below at the Confederate Monument in Columbia, S.C. (Sean Rayford/Getty Images), via WP


Nikki Haley is a large part of the problem for South Carolina.

I would suggest burning it but you they wouldn't go for that.

... flag etiquette stipulates that flags are flown at half mast. The confederate battle flag is no exception to this rule.

Naturally, I support its removal and replacement with the first national flag of the CSA. It would in my mind be less controversial and be as historically accurate as a symbol for those who died fighting for the CSA vs the USA.

Seafan's post above mine referenced this:

“Instructions for appropriate display of Confederate flag after tragedy,” American University economics lecturer Daniel Lin wrote. “1) Lower to half-mast 2) Keep lowering until removed 3) You’re done.”

The actual confederate flag is more appropriate but still bothers me. That is the KKK flag and anyone who does not understand that should be educated about it.

and it goes unspoken: SC is full of racists and baggers who support her. To take down the flag would put the state in chaos as the racist erupt in rebellion. . So she is doing the politically expedient thing and dancing around the issue. But if she had any sense of right and wrong, she would take the flag down right now...

or Dimrata, as I prefer to think of her, will not say anything unless told to by her overlords, the Kochs and ALEC.

Oh, and she "self-identifies" as "white", just like Booby Jindal. Both of them need to remember that 50 years ago they would have been exiled to the back of the bus, no matter what they "self-identify" as. Like Jindal, she is running away from her heritage just as fast as she possibly can.

both buried their given names for political purposes. Others do it for business purposes. It helps with acceptance by bigoted people, I guess. We saw that with Republicans emphasizing Barack Obama's middle name, Hussein. They were trying to activate the xenophobia of voters. It didn't work.

It's funny, isn't it?

to succeed in her political career.

But she and others of her ilk won't remove that flag, saying it represents the state's heritage.

If that isn't a testimony of the racism that runs rampant in her state, I don't know what does.

...the flag defenders say, and they are right.

The flag is a symbol of the heritage of treason, of taking up arms against the United States of America.
However, it is fact that in the 150 years since then, it has been used as the war-banner for a multi-generation long hatred of the former slaves and of those who fighting freed the slaves (the north).

but thanks to some extreme right wing crazies taking it still as modern reality. my need for historical remembrance is someone taking a back seat. kinda the same way with Gay Marriage. Thanks to the right wing and their refusal to recognize same sex unions and their rights when things go wrong at the hospital... we now have gay marriage. and there's no way I could defend what they did now. So sure keep going to the right till we have one party. I don't like the idea of a far left one party rule. It won't work. But if there's no middle we'll just fall off into the abyss

She's an Indian pretending to be a european white American, and taking advantage of that adopted identity, and like pastors that are gay that pretend to be straight, is using that adopted identity to "look down" on the other minorities with being fine about keeping that confederate flag up. She pretends like she wouldn't have been segregated more than 50 years ago.

And, really, who doesn't look back fondly to those glorious fun-filled days?

Anyway, they'll take it down when the centennial has passed, which will be ... let's see ... move the decimal place over, divide by two, carry the one ... that will be in 2976, I think

230k names so far!

http://petitions.moveon.org/embed/widget.html?v=3&name=remove-the-confederate-3" class="moveon-petition" id="petition-embed" width="300px" height="500px

Sadly, I do not think it will affect Haley at all.

Signed!

I just signed it.

how many slaves do you own personally?" That would have been awkward for her. She wouldn't want to sound elitist by given the actual number. That would be like saying she has a car elevator.

"...Haley was asked directly why the Confederate Battle Flag is still flying in front of the SC Capitol building. She waffled around the subject. Asked again directly, she talked about everything but that flag. "We need to heal," was the theme of her answer."
The next question should have been "Well Governor, once you feel you are healed, will you take that damn flag down?"

This is the direct result of a useless teabagging GOP republican.

It's called an Executive Order. Any Governor in America's 50 States has the Right to Issue an Executive Order, regardless to what the state law says. In fact, in clear defiance of State Law to be exact.

The "stars and bars" flag is not what people think. The flag commonly referred to as the Confederate flag was not the "stars and bars" national flag of the Confederate States. Yes, the Confederate flag was the battle flag of Tennessee and northern Virginia (Gen. Lee).

The KKK adopted what we now call the Confederate flag in the 1920's, taking it to its current popularity, so the heritage of the flag is actually rooted in the KKK.

Wikipedia has more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

to continually prod it.

But having it flying over government institutions should be prohibited by federal law. It's 'anti' United States, since it represents the division of the states. Having it flying seems almost treasonous.

And then there is the racism that it flaunts. It is horrific that government buildings have a flag waving that essentially says 'we hate you' to blacks. Calling it the 'slavery flag' is very fitting.

Would be comparable to this flag rather than the stars and stripes. The "bars and stars" flag is a completely different flag.



Better yet, Google on "5th army flag" and it will show the history of the flag and show both the Confederate battle flag as well as the current "A5" battle flag.

All of her policies are anti-person and pro-corporate.

Please educate me as to what makes her a great governor?

Office of the Governor
Executive Staff
South Carolina State House, First Floor
1205 Pendleton Street
Columbia, SC 29201
803.734.2100

People that praise the Confederate flag are a walking contradiction: these patriots love "American values" to the core, but what they can't seem to comprehend is that the "flag of slavery" represents nothing more than preservation of an immoral system--in addition, the flag is the antithesis of the American flag itself.

States' rights, especially in the South, is just another euphemism for the right to discriminate.

http://stupidpartymathvmyth.com/

of the blatant racism AND that they're getting away with it while the whole world is watching.

No more waffling!






Mmmmmm, waffles!

Just like Palin showing off her killing skills in such a lame manner, neither of these women is authentic, they just like pretending to be because they want to prove their bonafides by throwing in their lot with the menfolk.

So naturally she didn't have an answer because wanting that hateful flag to fly is something she thinks the men around her want to do. Now she's in a political conundrum and she doesn't know how to get out of it.

She's a follower, not a leader.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

We had a shooting here in Iowa at Coral Ridge Mall that left a 20 year old woman dead. The guy who did it was a big time right wing gun enthusiast and of course was all about the 2nd Amendment.

Anyways Terry went on the news a few days later to go on about how he and the Lt. Gov felt so bad about the shooting. But not bad enough to propose any solutions that would piss off his teabagger base or the gun lobby in Iowa. I don't think he cares how many innocents are hurt he wouldn't work to solve that problem.

Nikki is cut from the same cloth Terry is. All full of wind and bullshit. But unwilling to actually meet the problem head on as she's scared of pissing off her own 2nd Amendment crazed teabaggers in the state.

Makes me fucking sick.

She likely doesn't care one way or the other, but her political survival requires that she pander to the racists in her party, so it stays.

It’s appalling that these Republican dolts can’t seem to grasp racial symbolism—or they refuse to in order to cater to their bigoted constituents.

Last night I got into a rather heated argument with a fellow who tried to deny the role slavery had in causing the civil war--he went on to invoke tariffs, state's rights, and other peripheral casual factors. So, in response, I chose to actually sift through every cause that was stated on various websites and categorize them by being either 1) "associated with slavery," or 2) "not associated with slavery." It's a long list but I thought that I would share my list with your site:

"Via the links below:

1) Slavery
2) Dred Scott Decision (associated with slavery)
3) Abolitionist movement (associated with slavery)
4) Harriet Beecher novel (associated with slavery)
5) The Underground Railroad (associated with slavery)
6) The Missouri Compromise (associated with slavery)
7) John Brown (associated with slavery)
8) Raid on Harper's Ferry (associated with slavery)
9) Election of Lincoln (associated with slavery as he was a against it)
10) Southern Secession (associated with slavery-- the South seceded in order to maintain immoral system that was economically beneficial. Created Northern envy)
11) Ft Sumter (associated with slavery)
12) Constitutional question of slavery/Three Fifths Compromise (1808 clause--associated with slavery)
13) Economic envy between North and South (associated with slavery--free labor vs paid labor. North was industrialized, but Northerners were nonetheless jealous)
14) Social reformation (associated with slavery--interpretations of Bible were changed in order to topple slavery. Women's Movement played a huge role in changing this perception)
15) Nat Turner's rebellion (associated with slavery)
16) Gag Rule (associated with slavery)
17) Amistad Slave Ship (associated with slavery)
18) Annexation of Texas (associated with slavery--brought in as slave state)
19) Popular Sovereignty Slavery (associated with slavery)
20) Alta California (associated with slavery)
21) Compromise of 1850 (associated with slavery)
22) Fugitive Slave Act (associated with slavery)
23) Kansas-Nebraska Act (associated with slavery)
24) Bleeding Kansas (associated with slavery)
25) Eli Whitney Cotton Gin (associated with slavery--increased demand for slaves)

Not associated with slavery:
26) Tariffs (not associated with slavery)
27) States vs federal rights (not associated with slavery)
28) Industrial Revolution (not associated with slavery)
29) Nullification Crisis (not associated with slavery)
30) Manifest Destiny (not associated with slavery)
31) Mexican American War (not associated with slavery)
32) Election of Democrats/Whigs (not associated with slavery)
33) Lincoln-Douglas Debate (not associated with slavery)
*The Previous two can be associated with slavery if one considers the subject matter of the debates/elections. Slavery was one of the primary issues that was ran on.

Totals:
Factors associated with slavery: 76%
Factors not associated with slavery: 24%
Who has the more cogent argument? I do. And while some factors may be more heavily weighted, most of those exist under the "associated with slavery" category."

Sources: http://www.historynet.com/causes-of-the-civil-war
http://www.civil-conflict.org/civil-war-history/causes-of-the-civil-war.htm

The man was quick to retort with same argument and chose to bypass my argument--a clear sign of a lack of critical thinking. Individuals, like the man I argued with, are contributing to racial tensions. Rather than accept the racist underpinnings of the Confederate flag, they try to alter its history by interpreting it as representing states' rights: another euphemism for the right to enslave, persecute, and discriminate.

Disappointingly, candidates, like Ted Cruz, are feeding this ignorance with their refusal to accept the racial origins of a treasonous flag. It truly frightens me. How can we ever transcend racism if we never address America's historical demons? This is why the Republican brand is failing--they have become the party of bigotry, hate, and ignorance.

Here are a few articles that you (and your followers) may enjoy reading (I wrote one of the two) as they relate to the topic of racism.

http://stupidpartymathvmyth.com/1/post/2015/06/the-mathmatics-of-domestic-terrorism.html
http://stupidpartymathvmyth.com/1/post/2015/05/from-tulsa-to-baltimore-racism-is-not-dead.html

And welcome to DU!

I appreciate the warm welcome!

Not that we'll ever solve it here, but it does help to express our frustration and anger. You have addressed it well and completely, think you'll be a real asset on DU, glad that you found us...

Here is a blog that I wrote not too long ago about the Baltimore riots:

http://stupidpartymathvmyth.com/1/post/2015/05/from-tulsa-to-baltimore-racism-is-not-dead.html

I thought that you might enjoy it.