General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"The System Is Broken": Americans No Longer Believe In Its Institutions
1.Only 8 percent have confidence in Congress, down by 16 points from a long-term average of 24 percent the lowest of all institutions rated. The rating is about the same as last year's 7 percent, the lowest Gallup has ever measured for any institution.
2.Thirty-three percent have confidence in the presidency, a drop from a historical average of 43 percent.
3.Thirty-two percent have confidence in the Supreme Court, down from 44.
4.2004 was also the last year Americans' satisfaction with the way things are going in the United States averaged better than 40 percent. Currently, 28 percent of Americans are satisfied with the state of the nation.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken-walshs-washington/2015/06/17/americans-have-lost-confidence-in-everything
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Integrity, appearance of impropriety, conflicts of interest, cash-for-access ...
I am pessimistic.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)CanonRay
(14,111 posts)Still standing, looks strong on the outside, but is full of decay, and will fall in the next big storm. You are dead on right about Greed being at the heart of it all. Our institutions have sold themselves...the ultimate price to pay for unbridled capitalism. I'm also very pessimistic.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)This is it in a nutshell. Capitalism corrupts everything it touches.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)That makes me feel terrible.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)are doing everything within their power to privatize the P.O.
I did have faith in the Coast Guard, but their leadership looked a shabby in the hurricane problem in the New Orleans area and the oil well leak in the Gulf. Not too bad though. I might be a bit misinformed.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)From The N.Y. Times, Nov. 2014:
The Worst Voter Turnout in 72 Years
The abysmally low turnout in last weeks midterm elections the lowest in more than seven decades was bad for Democrats, but it was even worse for democracy. In 43 states, less than half the eligible population bothered to vote, and no state broke 60 percent.
In the three largest states California, Texas and New York less than a third of the eligible population voted. New Yorks turnout was a shameful 28.8 percent, the fourth-lowest in the country, despite three statewide races (including the governor) and 27 House races.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/opinion/the-worst-voter-turnout-in-72-years.html?_r=0
We (and I mean Americans in general) were the ones that bought into Reaganismtrickle down and smaller governmentand kept it alive.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)from participating, i.e., voting. Because participating would not work as intended/designed.
Rather, you would only be helping to legitimize a coercive institution that is controlling you and your life at the whims of Big Money interests.
Refusing to participate at least sends a message to observers that the entire charade is only for show.
FSogol
(45,504 posts)If your sink faucet is dripping because it needs a new washer, ignoring it will never fix it. No matter how long you ignore the dripping, it will never get better. It must be repaired to improve. Problems that have been around more than 10 years are extremely difficult to fix. It takes work. We need to get everyone involved and fix the problems in this nation. All the whining and non-participation will be never improve a damn thing. GOTV, DU.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)FSogol
(45,504 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)FSogol
(45,504 posts)Andy823
(11,495 posts)When the best response you can get is to be told you are now on someones "ignore" list?
FSogol
(45,504 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)particularly advocating not voting. Seems to me that they were just explaining why people discouraged by the system likely don't vote... and the non-voting numbers are incredible.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)just yet. I think we still have hope of reforming the system.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)without a violent revolution against the tenth-percenters.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The bought-off corporatist "Democrats" will only boil the frogs a bit more slowly. It is painfully obvious who owns them and who they are working for. See TPP. It was there that the president drew his line in the sand. Nuff said.
LiberalLoner
(9,762 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)to the amount of violence that the bourgeoisie use to try and hang on to their ill-gotten gains.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Though not in person of course. They never dirty their hands. I still have more than a sneaking suspicion that the kkkops have been militarized to the extent they have because TPTB have little faith that the uniformed military would turn on the citizenry when the shit hits the fan. Not to mention the mercenary armies that DicKKK funded so generously. The tenth percenters remember what happened to Mussolini and Ceaucescu.
The kkkops and mercenaries will joyously massacre the people with never a second thought but there are not enough of them to do the job if the military sits on its hands.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)"non-violent" revolution. It's going to be like Ukraine, but worse. But the only other option is a slow death on your knees. I'd rather die on my feet I think.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)When there's no one on the ballot who wants to fix that faucet, it will not get fixed. No matter who you vote for, or no matter if you vote or not.
Our problems are not 10 years old. They are more than 40 years old. They were not only allowed to drip, they were encouraged to rot out half of the entire house.
You don't fix that with a little paint. And you should not blame the people who notice the paint will not fix the problem. You should try listening to them instead, and actually fix the house.
FSogol
(45,504 posts)candidate that doesn't just talk, he actually improves things.
Constant Eeyore-ism by malcontents will never fix anything. Why the hell do people waste their time here if they seriously believe nothing can change or improve? Why care about politics if you think your vote doesn't matter? Anyone advocating not voting is fool of the highest order. According to DU's TOS those fools and their ilk don't belong here.
BTW, Where did I say our problems are only 10 years old?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The giant pile of stupid in your statement here is claiming such people believe nothing can change. We know it can change.
We also know it will not change with the party we have had for the last 40 years. The party turned to centrism and abandoned positions that it used to defend. This was greatly amped-up when the DLC was formed.
That faction of the party is not interested in changing anything. That faction is what got us to our current dystopia.
Always voting "D" is not always voting for change. Until very recently, it was voting to only go back to 1920 instead of 1820.
Change is coming. It will not be delivered by the current Democratic party leadership.
When you decided to pick 10 years in your post. The problems are much older, and choosing such a short time-frame is a massive disservice to those of us who have been fighting the party's myopia much longer than 10 years.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The time is well past when incremental, marginal change, even in the few cases it comes to pass, will be anything like sufficient to accomplish what needs to be done, and that includes maintaining the habitability of the one planet we have. There are two candidates who are pointing out that systemic changes that need to be made. There is one who avoids and denies because the status quo has been very good indeed to that candidate and her family. She and those with whom she is closely allied, not to say joined at the hip, are perfectly content with the way things are going and will, if anything, accelerate it. For them, it is about PROFIT even if the world burns.
The choice is obvious
0rganism
(23,960 posts)elections and democracy are within the domain of government institutions.
when people lose faith in their government, it makes sense that they also lose faith in the mechanisms it supports, including the systems established to apply democratic corrections.
which is just one more reason republicans have for making government suck as much as possible.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)0rganism
(23,960 posts)i do have to wonder if the French have an across-the-board dissatisfaction with their government and its institutions the way we do here.
also, i'd bet it's a lot easier to be loud and engaged when a potential lack of employer-provided health care isn't perpetually hanging over your head like the goddam sword of Damocles.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)In the US, we get told to shut up or Republicans will win.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)Oh, and LE3OSIEKFLSDKSLF!
pampango
(24,692 posts)Volaris
(10,273 posts)MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Many of us have already figured out that elections are just one more dysfunctional piece of American governance.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)MindPilot
(12,693 posts)"In the three largest states California, Texas and New York less than a third of the eligible population voted."
So you're saying that as long as Democrats hold the majority, the "system" is working just fine? No, this is much bigger than than partisan politics. Clearly the conservative voters in Texas feel disenfranchised just as the liberal voters in California and New York do.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Democrats, etc. It's very easy to vote here and we occasionally make progress, so people vote.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)As sure as an apple turns brown when you cut it open, those Democrats will turn their backs on the people who voted for them in favor of the people who bankrolled them, and a batch of new regulations make that legalized weed impossible to get.
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the outcome will always be the same.
J_J_
(1,213 posts)What kind of country lets Republican corporations count the votes with secret software?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)there isn't a reason to vote.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)The vast majority just want to keep the status quo going a little bit longer.
There's a Mount Everest of shit to clean up, and most Democratic politicians just want to do some light dusting.
Oh, and no there is not always a Democrat on the ballot. And I'm not making a crack about DINOs. My last ballot when I lived in upstate NY had one Democrat on it. There were 8 races.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)which would make it easier for Obama to ram through controversial trade deals like the Trans Pacific Partnership, reducing the role of Congress to an up-or-down vote on such mammoth agreements.
"Thanks to House Republicans and a handful of turncoat Democrats, the army of corporate execs and industry lobbyists who wrote the job-killing Trans-Pacific Partnership will now have an easier time shoving it down the throats of an American public that's broadly opposed to more NAFTA-style trade deals," Democracy for America chair Jim Dean said after the vote. "While we will continue to work to defeat fast-track for the job-killing TPP in the U.S. Senate, we will never forget which House Democrats stood with American working families against Fast Track and who sold them out."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026863682
Auggie
(31,177 posts)the fast track vote is reprehensible. An engaged electorate -- especially those registered as Democrats -- would pick up the phone and raise hell with those 28 reps. I hope that's happening, though those 28 voted in favor most likely because they know they won't be held accountable.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)If a supposedly liberal Democratic representative, needs me--Pointdexter in the IT department--to tell them that TPP is a bad deal for workers, there is something really messed up.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)Terri Sewell (AL-07)
Susan Davis (CA-53)
Sam Farr (CA-20)
Jim Costa (CA-16)
Ami Bera (CA-07)
Scott Peters (CA-52)
Jared Polis (CO-02)
James Himes (CT-04)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL-23)
Mike Quigley (IL-05)
John Delaney (MD-06)
Brad Ashford (NE-02)
Gregory Meeks (NY-05)
Kathleen Rice (NY-04)
Earl Blumenauer (OR-03)
Kurt Schrader (OR-05)
Suzanne Bonamici (OR-01)
Jim Cooper (TN-05)
Rubén Hinojosa (TX-15)
Eddie Johnson (TX-30)
Henry Cuellar (TX-28)
Beto O'Rourke (TX-16)
Gerald Connolly (VA-11)
Donald Beyer (VA-08)
Rick Larsen (WA-02)
Suzan DelBene (WA-01)
Derek Kilmer (WA-06)
Ron Kind (WI-03)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/18/1394407/-These-are-the-28-Democrats-who-voted-for-fast-track-twice#
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)Including my own very liberal Susan Davis, and from her neighboring district Scott Peters. No matter who you vote for, this what you get.
Auggie
(31,177 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)..........................YES........NO........PRES.......NV
REPUBLICAN........191..........54.......................1
DEMOCRATIC.........28........157.......................3
INDEPENDENT
TOTALS...............219 ......211.....................4
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2015/roll362.xml
bullsnarfle
(254 posts)I don't suppose you noticed who the Dems ran in Florida's last gubernatorial race, did you? Charlie Freakin' Crist!!!!! That's right, a cheesy goddamn recycled Repub! If he had been running against anybody but Voldemort I don't think I could have held my nose long enough to fill out the ballot for him. Still gives me the heaves to think about it.
And when I think about those Dems who turn out to be rotten sell-outs(and we all know who they are) - NO, I do NOT think they are any better than Repubs. A snake is a snake.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Like he was some liberal or something. It was gross around here during that time.
TheFarseer
(9,323 posts)Makes me think it's not worthwhile to vote if I just get the same result no matter who we elect.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)"Government is the problem," proclaimed presidential candidate Ronald Reagan. And the Republicans have worked incessantly to prove him right by obstructing, gumming up the works, running up huge deficits, constantly propagandizing with specious stories about the incompetence of government employees and those who depend on government programs to stay alive.
This is part of an orchestrated campaign that started in the 1960s when corporatist Lewis Powell wrote his famous memo in response to the "power to the people" movement that was sweeping through the country.
The Lewis Powell Memo - A Corporate Blueprint to Dominate Democracy
Written in 1971 to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Lewis Powell Memo was a blueprint for corporate domination of American Democracy.
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/polluterwatch/The-Lewis-Powell-Memo/
The Trade pact that we seen being rammed through Congress now is the end result of this corporate domination--now they are so powerful they can overrule the laws of nations.
SalviaBlue
(2,917 posts)You are exactly right!!
Remember: ...make government so small it can be drowned in a bathtub...
dembotoz
(16,811 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)if you don't have confidence get the fuck involved
jeff47
(26,549 posts)At least, that was the experience of most of the politically active members of my generation (GenX).
Attempts to change this were met with massive resistance from the party establishment. And basic math dictated we could not win - my generation is much smaller than the generations who resisted our efforts.
Things like student loan debt and keeping the safety net intact weren't "winning issues" according to the party. And we were not needed to form a winning coalition - there were enough boomers and WWII generation Democrats to compete against the Republicans.
Time has thinned those numbers down, and suddenly we're needed. And just as you posted, our disinterest is blamed on us instead of looking at our party's past.
Instead of planting wheat, the Democratic party planted salt. And now that the fields are not growing, the poor harvest is being blamed on the fields.
We know we're fucked. We know there is a Mount Everest of shit to clean up. And we know from experience that those generations are not interested in cleaning up their mess. So we'll have to do it after they are out of the way. If some more turds fall on the Mount Everest of shit, it won't make that big of a difference.
OldEurope
(1,273 posts)AwakeAtLast
(14,132 posts)This could be an OP, but then most likely a generation war would start.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It's always 'blame the victims'. We get offered crappy candidates, then chewed out when there's no enthusiasm to vote for them.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The party was sold to corporate interests bit by bit by the DLC, the Turd Way crowd and most of all by the Clintons. They pocketed the tens of millions and laughed at the base.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)and you couldn't be more right.
I'll back GenX - I've children in that category, and they and their friends are savvier than most boomers I know, of course I taught them
As a fellow X'r I have had the same experience.
It is interesting how much our current President has reminded me of exactly how I felt in the late 90's for exactly the same reasons.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)And he is now betraying us by trying to get TPP and related pro-oligarchy legis. rammed thru Congress.
The electorate are not doing this, our Democratic Pres. is!!!!
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)that is my concern.
i think the flawed institutions can work if everyone participates.
sendero
(28,552 posts)....maybe the average American isn't as dumb as I thought. Or maybe the general malaise affecting our economy, our government and just about everything else is starting to wake people up.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I don't believe our government is working for most Americans. Congress is a mess. This president tried, but it proves that the president has very little power. Banks? Not working for us. Organized religion? A stain on this country. The Supreme Court? Only working for their own interests.
This country has been in deep trouble for quite a long time.
PatrickforO
(14,585 posts)like a cancer on the land, eating up everything in sight.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Inevitable it would reach critical mass.
https://m.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)I met some decent minded people, both Republicans and Democrats yesterday that were fed up with the cancer that has infected our government that is selling itself (and US) out with the vote for the TPA last night.
I think though we can't cede our feelings on progressive issues, there's a way that we can focus on issues when meeting with like minded Republicans so that we can push changes within both of our parties to change this system that has become screwed up that no one trusts any more.
People should look at the way Oregon SLAMMED the corporatist effort to take over our elections with prop 90 (top two primary) in 2014, that was backed by oil billionaires and Bloomberg, and was endorsed by corporatist paper Oregonian as well.
People saw through the crap and destroyed this measure so that it fared worse than even the measure that tried to put in place driver's licenses for undocumented residents here.
We can work together if done in the right way to throw off the corporate cancer we have infecting our government.
Hekate
(90,751 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Hekate
(90,751 posts)RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)They are wealth-generating machines for administrators and bankers as well as a small percentage of faculty, and students. Everyone else can fuck off.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Since the incredible growth in "free" money via college loans.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)Should be 0.1% trust the system because they are the only people the system serves.
Gloria
(17,663 posts)They exploit the system for their purposes, then trash it when it comes to the greater good.
I detest these people, more and more. I am NOT MELLOWING!
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Harvard's Robert Putnam did a massive study of diverse neighborhoods and found the more diverse places had the least social trust. Our nation is much more diverse than my youth and social trust is in the toilet. We don't believe in institutions at anymore. The tea party got it's initial oomph because folks were afraid that their neighbors who bought too much house would get bailed out by the government (and it was taken over by the Koch Brothers about ten seconds later).
This is the new normal. Actually, I think over the next generation or two the US will become a lot like Mexico, with a very wealthy elite plus technocrats (the kind of folks who get into the Ivy League) will rule over the masses who really don't care anymore. The two parties will remain and swap the titles of power every few years. Monopolies will return, heck already have.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)So things were much better and peaceful when the only people that mattered were white protestants?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)And, many are ignoring the system, refusing to participate in the system, or looking for alternatives to the system.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)marmar
(77,084 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Confidence in religious institutions has plunged to a new low. And that is a very good thing.
lark
(23,134 posts)They did it on purpose as the constitution and our institutions stood in the way of the oligarchy they wanted and have created here.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)clap your hands and close your eyes! suits and whitebcoats tell no lies! *shakes pom poms*
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Ever since the Reagan Era, the goal has been to place people in government who were bent on its destruction. Cabinet secretaries that were openly hostile toward their departments were routinely appointed and confirmed. The tradition continues to this day. Look at Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, who is bound and determined to destroy public education as we know it. Into this democratic vacuum steps corporate rule and domination.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)The problem is that a hopelessly corrupted "democracy" is now the slave of private property and markets.
The choices are simple - the system must evolve or die. The problem is that the system now has the power to literally destroy the planet on which we live. So will it be life or predatory capitalism? I am not optimistic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)There have been folks working very, very hard to get this result.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)All part of the plan. The long game has been in place for decades.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But anyway, if you think it was /is "centrists " working this "distrust of institutions" plan, ask yourself who benefits when the people no longer trust the institutions?
Then, ask yourself if you might have been one of those used.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)or "getting things done" are blameless.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)The institutions (i.e., government) are working just fine, for the most part; though they could be strenghtened.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)For example, the IRS can't do it's job because it does not have enough money to enforce tax laws against anyone but the poor.
Every single "Government can't do anything right" was aided and abetted by centrist. "Raising taxes will make us look all liberal. So let's sign on to this 'public-private partnership' thing to build the new highway. Oh shit, it went bankrupt. Well, clearly government can't do anything right."
"Repair water mains? That would endanger funding for our new stadium and 'Tax free zones'! We can't do that without raising taxes, and the Republicans would say unpleasant things about me if I did that." And then water mains fail.
The Republicans did not drag the country to our current location alone. They had lots and lots of help from centrist Democrats.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)craigmatic
(4,510 posts)to voters or work. Separation of powers has failed us and ideas like term limits, limited government, the second amendment, and checks and balances only delays progress. That's why few other countries in the world have adopted our model and kept it. Everyone else knows a parliamentary system is better. At least a PM can get things done as opposed to this divided government bullshit we have.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Mr Madison rested his republic on one crucial foundation - a concerned and informed citizenry.
That necessary factor has been intentionally destroyed, in large part by the corporate media, reichwing radio and the plutocrats.
I remember this country before Raygun. While it would never be mistaken for Pericles' Athens, it has been dumbed down to a point that was quite literally unimaginable 40 years ago. It has all been by design.
News used to be actual news. With few exceptions, mostly on the Web, it is now carefully crafted state propaganda crafted to serve the interests of the tenth-percenters and only the tenth-percenters.
craigmatic
(4,510 posts)CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)And too many people think that is just fine.
.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)is a recipe for fascism, and/or totalitarianism, but for most people, government (and capitalism) works just fine.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)even when headed up by conservative majorities.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Ever since Ronald Reagan told us that government was just a big drag, a useless waste of money that couldn't do anything for us, we have been losing confidence in government and political institutions, watching our infrastructure decay, giving up on various social problems, and generally losing our initiative in many ways. We still know how to invade small, helpless nations, though. See? There's a real bright spot! I guess I shouldn't be so pessimistic.