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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Rude Pundit - Your Support of the Confederate Flag Makes You a Traitor
Once a year, every April 12, on the steps of the capitol buildings in all the states that seceded from the United States, the Confederate flag should be burned. The ceremony should be attended by all the legislators, all the state's Supreme Court justices, and the governor. Then, when the embers are dying, a black man or woman, chosen by lottery, should be brought up to piss on the ashes. Every year. Just to remind anyone who supports it what the value of the garbage flag is.
People who try to justify the display of the stars and bars of the Confederacy always try to say the same things: "It means something else to people" or "What about this symbol (usually something Muslim)? Should we ban that?" Well, sure. In that case, you could make a case to ban the cross because of all the times it was burned by KKK jerk-offs to intimidate black Americans.
The difference, though, is that the Confederate flag exists as a symbol only because a group of traitors tried to break up the United States because they wanted to keep on owning slaves. That's it. You can say it means something different to you; you can say it means "Southern pride" or some such bullshit, but you are at best ignorant, at worst a liar, probably both. It speaks volumes about how much power we give fools in this nation that the Confederate flag would still be seen as a valid expression of anything other than hatred for black people.
When you're white in the South, you are often tested by other whites. Do you think the South will rise again? What do you think about the Confederate flag? For most people, it's just a background thing that they don't notice until someone says, "Why the fuck is there a rebel flag on your hat?" You see it everywhere - on license plates, on t-shirts, on buildings, on motherfucking official government property, as if somehow, appeasing the fools is a noble goal. No. The noble goal is telling the fools to stop being foolish. Everything that "honors" anyone from the Confederacy, from the flag to the generals, should be wrecked.
Antebellum matron Lindsey Graham declared that the Confederate flag is "part of who we are." In that case, you may as well hang a noose from a flagpole in front of the statehouse in Columbia and call it your heritage. It'd be less dishonest than the rebel flag that's padlocked in place now.
Let's put this as clearly as possible: If you believe there is some good in the symbol of the Confederate flag, if you think that your nonsensical faith in your history is more important than what it means to the black people, then you are a traitor, like the traitorous bastards you're descended from. Dylan Roof is another traitor. He is your inheritance, Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy. His actions were because of you.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2015/06/your-support-of-confederate-flag-makes.html
marym625
(17,997 posts)enough
(13,260 posts)He quotes from the "Corner Stone Speech" by Alexander H. Stephens in Savannah, Georgia March 21, 1861, describing the foundations of the Confederacy:
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
Coates' article is here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/
The Stephens Speech is here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130822142313/http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)"The negro is not equal to the white man."
{Foxinator whirs into life}: Inconclusive. Could mean just about anything. Maybe by "not equal" he means "superior." Could be, you know!
"Slavery subordination to the superior race is . . . natural."
{Foxinator whirs into life}: God did it, just like all those so-called dinosaur fossils. Can't fight against God, so there, you libruls!
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)That particular flag was just one of a number of confederate battle flags, until the Supreme Court ordered school desegregation in the 1950s. People who resisted school integration took up that flag and started to display it as a symbol of segregated public schools. Of course, they laid it on heavy with that "tradition" stuff but that's BS.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Finally the unvarnished truth
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)erronis
(15,314 posts)I've lived in many states up and down, left and right, but none of my friends, acquaintances, or business associates would have anything to do with the hatred and stupidity that adherence to that tattered scrap of symbolism.
But then, most of the people I associate with are reasonably intelligent. Maybe some are NASCAR and NRA. Maybe some identify with the Republicans. I really feel sorry for intelligent people trapped in the South or trapped in geographic/familial situations where rationality is a dangerous concept.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)When I lived in the red boondocks of western NY state, I met quite a few of the spawn of idiocracy. Vile, ignorant, echo-chamber people.
Luckily there were also sane, smart liberals around, too.
swilton
(5,069 posts)47of74
(18,470 posts)Hit it out of the fucking park, as usual.
on point
(2,506 posts)Like to see all those constitution loving rw people reconcile that with their rhetoric.
Response to on point (Reply #13)
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Duppers
(28,125 posts)Best description.
K & R - Excellent thread.
Edited to add: At least some progress against this racist symbol is being made: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141120875
Response to meegbear (Original post)
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NoMoreRepugs
(9,449 posts)when is the last time u ventured out from your basement to look around? Georgia no Confederate Flags? Black men fighting for the south - was that willingly or because they enjoyed being slaves vs free men?
Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #19)
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LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)I will find out!
On edit: I was right:
The 1956 flag
The Georgian state flag that was used from 1956 to 2001 featured a prominent Confederate battle flag and was designed by Democrat John Sammons Bell, a World War II veteran and an attorney who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[4] During its official usage as the state flag, some Georgian residents found it offensive and objectionable, due to its contemporary use as a symbol by various white supremacist groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)#The_1956_flag
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Well, said poster has been tombstoned
sarge43
(28,941 posts)sarge43
(28,941 posts)SunSeeker
(51,603 posts)And hopefully Georgia and the rest of the states that allow those vile plates will stop issuing them now that even this conservative Supreme Court says the state can say no.
mnhtnbb
(31,398 posts)My husband's family is from Georgia. We can't visit that I don't see Confederate flags all over the place.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)it was explicit in every secession document.
How people can argue otherwise is being purposefully disingenuous. The Confederate leaders were proud and thought they had both God and Justice on their side when they started to secede.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)...ad naseum. BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!
vkkv
(3,384 posts)You also forgot to mention that without the Afric-Amer population in the U.S, we likely would have LOST World War II.
Texans sure as hell don't like Mexicans flying the Mexican Flag in Texas although Texas was part of Mexico.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It's been that way for over 50 years and NOBODY in Texas complained about that flag until the xenophobic teabagger dipshits took over the Texas GOP.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Any "meaning" other than slavery was derived after the war by people ashamed to admit its true purpose.
Duppers
(28,125 posts)I bet you can now see the those "rebel flags" on a good number of pickup trucks in Georgia...
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/new-confederate-license-plate-brings-skirmishes/ndSjT/
And don't forget Georgia's state flag is modeled upon that confederate swastika, as Wiki states fact: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)
This southern girl knows that the South is still a deeply troubled place even though much progress has been made. Just don't fool yourself.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,449 posts)from the Rude One..." You see it everywhere - on license plates, on t-shirts, on buildings, on motherfucking official government property, as if somehow, appeasing the fools is a noble goal."
I'm heading to the farm this weekend near the Ozarks - the Confederate flag is a fairly common sighting.
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Whatever associations it once held as Regimental Colors was completely obscured once the Klan co-opted the colors as a symbol. Since then it's history as an instrument of intimidation against citizens of this country should send it to the dustbin of history.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Definitely.
Does that mean that everyone who displays the flag is a racist? No. To suggest otherwise is being intellectually lazy.
btw - I don't have any roots in the south or the confederacy, so I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak. But, I don't have a lot of patience for those who look for ways to be offended - especially when no offense is intended.
iow - there are plenty of OVERT offenses which we should fight...
AwareOne
(404 posts)You must realize that every argument that you make blaming the confederate flag for this latest massacre could just as easily be applied to the flag of the United States. Do you think the north is any less guilty for the institution of slavery than the south? This entire country was built on slavery and something like 13 or 14 of OUR presidents owned slaves. Why do date your indignation back to 1861? Why not take it back to Jamestown and condemn every American citizen ever for all the massacres, illegal wars and genocide committed under the banner of the United States. All americans are traitors according to your definition. We were born of a revolution, turning our back and firing on the flag of the mother country, England. Those "traitors" are what we call our founding fathers and our heroes.
The confederate flag did not murder those people, a crazy kid with a gun he got for his birthday did it and blaming it on an entire region of our country is not going to help stop it, its just throwing gas on a fire. I wish things were as simple as you make them out to be but they are not, its easy to rail against the confederate flag and reignite the debate over the civil war but its all just nonsense.
salimbag
(173 posts)Is an accurate description of the content of your post.
Response to salimbag (Reply #23)
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mnhtnbb
(31,398 posts)Response to AwareOne (Reply #18)
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geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)since the country was founded.
The racist, redneck, white supremacist troglodytes of 1950 Alabama were no more civilized than the racist, redneck, white supremacist troglodytes of 1850 Alabama.
In each case, it was at the point of guns wielded by non-Southerners that the shitheels in Dixie were forced to stop actively enslaving, lynching, and oppressing black people.
Confederate culture, the culture symbolized by the rebel battle flag, is a garbage culture of treasonous genocidalist bigots.
Its only proper uses are fire kindling and toilet paper.
P.S. Only racist assholes think there is a legitimate 'debate' over the Civil War. The South was evil, on par with Nazi Germany.
AwareOne
(404 posts)tens of thousands of books have been written on the American Civil War, it is the most written about subject in American literature and still dozens of new books come out every year because it is such a complex issue. So I guess all those authors are just "racist assholes" and all the college professors and historians and park service guides and museum curators etc. all just by your definition "racist assholes". You should try reading a book yourself, in fact , read one a month for the next forty years and then come back and we can talk about the subject as equals.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Whitewashing the Civil War began almost immediately after the South lost it. And that includes history books, roadside markers, and museum exhibits.
Do you recommend any books, or is "read a book" just a slam?
AwareOne
(404 posts)James M.McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom
It is part of the Oxford History of the United States and I rated it a ten on a scale of one to ten.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)the Dred Scott decision, the Lincoln-Douglas debates, John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry
So, slavery.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)evolution and the Holocaust. That does not mean there is a "debate" about evolution or the Holocaust.
The South fought for the right to own black people as slaves. That is a fact, just as it is a fact that the Nazis committed genocide.
People who celebrate the flag of treason, slavery, and Jim Crow are racist assholes.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)realized that owning other people is wrong. Those who still venerate the Confederate battle flag never learned that lesson and it marks them as ignorant racists. People like the shooter use flags such as it, and those of Rhodesia and apartheid era S. Africa as symbols of their hatred and racism.
The comparison of the Confederate battle flag with the American flag because both were traitors is misguided; the apt comparison is to the Nazi flag because both were hateful, racist murderers.
Rex
(65,616 posts)so you can pretend it is innocent as the driven snow all you want to. All that yak just to defend a crappy flag that stood and still stands for slavery!
brush
(53,801 posts)LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)and if this wasn't sarcasm, enjoy your stay. It will not be long.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)vkkv
(3,384 posts)oooooooh! It white! We like! Uh-HyucK !!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,801 posts). . .or a toilet.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)geardaddy
(24,931 posts)The Rude One speaks the truth.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)...worn as a tee-shirt or on a hat, I think "ignorant-hick".
Duppers
(28,125 posts)I'm white and grew up in the South and that's exactly what I think of them.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)"Some of those "Good Ol' Boys" will kill you"
WillyT
(72,631 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)It should serve to remind every American that while the armed rebellion ended at Appomattox Courthouse the Civil War did not. It should serve to remind them that the republic remains in danger from those who champion property rights above human rights or claim the latter right should depend entirely upon property ownership and upon group identity. The South needs not rise again. It never fell. Today the war is fought within the states rather than between them.
mountain grammy
(26,638 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)DrBulldog
(841 posts)Just three more of the lunacies in our nation piled atop the world's tallest mountain of stupidity that we bury ourselves in and shames us all.
chev52
(71 posts)I don't take much stock in flags. One of the finest men I knew was a southern boy from Mississipi who had a rebel flag in his bedroom. And I'm here to say he wasn't a racist. That might have had something to do with his living quiet a few years of his life in the North, not sure, but he was open minded and liked anyone who liked him and didn't try to screw him over, black or white. But still, the flag was part of his heritage. I've met many a yankee flying the stars and stripes that are pure, died in the wool a holes and racists to boot.
SunSeeker
(51,603 posts)Exactly. Not all items of history or "heritage " should be celebrated.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Of course the Pundit is once again correct...
I have to disagree with Lindsey "Another mint Julep*, please" Graham...I was born and raised in Atlanta...that fucking, racist Stars and Bars flag has not. one. damn. thing to do with who I am...So, Graham, fall on you fainting couch and put your right wrist to your forehead...
*a sweet flavored drink made from a sugar syrup, sometimes containing alcohol or medication.
Lindsey's has too much medication in it...
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)How can South Carolina's Governor Nikki Haley remove the State's Symbol of Hate, the Confederate Flag from its' Capitol Grounds immediately? By Issuing an Executive Order.
Any Governor in America's 50 States has the Right to Issue an Executive Order, regardless to what the state law says. In fact, in clear defiance of South Carolina's Complied State Laws to be exact."Executive orders as issued by the governor are not laws, but do have the same binding nature. Executive orders are usually based on existing constitutional or statutory powers of the Governor and do not require any action by the state legislature to take effect.
Executive orders are numbered sequentially for a calendar year and may address agency closings due to inclement weather, may call the legislature into special session, may address county or city officials who have violated their elected positions."
http://dc.statelibrary.sc.gov/handle/10827/22
Read more: http://j.mp/NikkiHaleyRemoveTheFlag
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smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)90-percent
(6,829 posts)Saw one by occupydemocrats that said the flag (confederate swastika - good one!) was not officially used during the civil war and was not flown at any southern state capital in the 19th century. It became popular in the 20th century because the KKK adopted it and flew it at all their picnics.
As Johnny Carson would say; "I did not know that!."
-90% Jimmy
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Hestia
(3,818 posts)each year "glorifying" our "illustrious past," that should all be torn down.
You see many more battlefield markers driving down the highway than flags. You see areas that have landscaping, pavilions and meditation gardens at these battlefields. Here, the state seems to commission a new area each year.
This is blood worship because what else can you call it?
The markers should be torn down, the marble smoothed or destroyed, and then turned into parks for everyone, not just the people who glorify and wallow in blood. Make them places of peace rather than war.
This blood worship becomes a symbol, always there to remind everyone, that people died defending a lost cause. So why in the world are we allowing monuments and altars to blood worship?
To me this includes all war memorials, no matter what year it happened. War is a bloody business, people killed either for ideology or plundering of resources (both). We learn from the histories of war but why are we putting up altars of worship at them?
Cemeteries are totally different - they have their place.
world wide wally
(21,749 posts)We once fought a war against this flag... and we won. That means to drop your loyalty to a foreign power that once tried to destroy the USA.
So, get over it and become part of the "United" States once and for all
calimary
(81,383 posts)calimary
(81,383 posts)How many times does this guy say what I'm feeling? How many times! Can't count that high...
Let's put this as clearly as possible: If you believe there is some good in the symbol of the Confederate flag, if you think that your nonsensical faith in your history is more important than what it means to the black people, then you are a traitor, like the traitorous bastards you're descended from. Dylan Roof is another traitor. He is your inheritance, Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy. His actions were because of you.
This essay is worth it - even if only for this: "Antebellum matron Lindsey Graham" !!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!! NAILED IT!!!!!!
C Moon
(12,219 posts)My boss was an overweight ex-Seabee who was from the southI believe it was Mississippi.
He drove a vehicle around town on which he had a small confederate flag displayed in the back window.
One morning he came into work slamming doors and cussingpissed off.
He sat down on the stool at the front of the shop (where he always sat to try and catch people walking in 1 minute after 8am); when asked what was wrong, he said he was pulled over by a black Glendale police officer, probably for speeding, and the police officer made him remove the flag from his back window.
Not legal, I know, but I was sure beaming inside.
CrispyQ
(36,487 posts)It speaks volumes about how much power we give fools in this nation that the Confederate flag would still be seen as a valid expression of anything other than hatred for black people.
The state flags that have the symbol in them, should also be banned.