It was about white supremacy. He said so out loud. It's insulting that when ever there is a racist incident, white folks pretend that racism was not the problem, or at least not the REAL problem. This is why we never get shit done as far as ending racism. White folks always pretend it is not the real problem.
If a black supremacist walked into a white church and shot up a bucnh of white parishoners and said 'I did it because I hate white people. I'm a racist. They stole our land, raped our women, took everything', I bet nan one of you all who are questioning whether racism was the problem/motivation would ignore the racist screed in favor of just talking about guns. It's bullshit. Seems racist in and of itself.

It’s the gun which actually allows it to be accomplished.. If all guns were banned, he would have needed another weapon, Firebomb, Fertilizer bomb, knifes...nope these people would have been alive today if it wasn’t for the gun..

You're insulting the victims of racism to promote your pet issue.

So I'm sure that if guns were not available he would have had plenty of time to find another way. So, yes, i think they would be dead. Probably would have made a bomb, six months us plenty of time to figure out how to make a bomb.

If the guy wasn't a rabid racist, he would not have done this. I think even if he didn't have a gun he would have killed using a bomb or arson.

Sweeping the issue of racism under the rug by pouncing on the gun issue doesn't solve the reason this guy murdered those people.

Sad, so sad..

I am very glad he was taken alive. I need to hear wtf was going on in his stupid little brain.

right on the mark with truth, as usual. These types are a dime a dozen and every since my wake up call with Trayvon Martin here, they pop up and spout off regularly with their distraction and diminishment BS. Typical and predictable.

It's like they have a playbook.

and they use it quite regularly with small little variation because they think we can't see their duplicity. Sad really that people can be so willfully misinformed and purposefully blind about something as important as racism and murder in amerikkka. Keep up the truth, it shall win one day.....I hope...

The OP is correct that Roof needed a gun to do the killing. And you are correct that he did the killing out of racial malice. So I'm not sure why you are objecting to the OP.

Really? Can't you just keep your dismissive offensive thoughts to yourself?

No. It can't be!!

Suggest u reread post..stop trying to avoid the gun accessibility issue..
Roof is a sick fucking man, who was able to get his hands on a gun..

including fucked up racists to get their hands on guns...Do you?

the usual tripe.

I think racists aren’t a problem in this country?

I am just very angry, sad, motivated to fight back against the hate.... I assume we all are feeling similarly

My issues are that racists and other sick parts of our society, find it way too easy to procure guns..

If you didn't come off as scolding people for talking about *why* he did it and not just how he did it. Some (most?) of us think both are pretty important.

and businesses have been torched, bombs were common as well. It's about the racism, not the tool the racist uses.

Do You honestly think their weapon of choice is a bomb or rope? Get real..

Seems you and others falsely accusing me of being insensitive to the racist issue is a sham..

Apparently U don’t want to talk about gun accessibility.

I did not accuse you of anything, I stated facts which you ignored, and said that the white supremacist racism sets off the bombs and ties the noose and shoots the guns. You don't seem to know your history at all.

I'm against guns, too. But, we will NEVER, EVER, EVER, be able to pass laws that will make it impossible for a racist POS like this guy to get his hands on a gun.
We can strengthen gun laws, yes, but we cannot prevent every hatemongering asshole in this country from obtaining a gun.
We CAN come together as a society and let every KKK motherf*cker know that we will no longer tolerate them inciting violence against black people. Every asshole running a hate group website calling for violence against black people needs to be drug out of their mother's basement and charged as co-conspirators along with this guy.
You cannot end violence in this country by pushing aside the issue of hate and just focusing on guns. Hate and racism is one of the main reasons gun nuts cling to their guns, for christs sake!

Exactly and your reluctance to even take the argument which I am carrying forward, is one of the reasons fucking racists will always be able to obtain guns to fulfill their sick agendas..

get all the guns out of Texas?

Which is doing nothing...

I’m not alone....http://csgv.org/

wouldn't happen if he couldn't get a gun, yet when asked how to remove all the guns from even one single state, you got nothing.

Everybody able to dress themselves in the morning knows that there would be less gun deaths if we could simply stop everybody who would shoot somebody from getting a gun.

We CAN use the full power of our laws to prosecute people who encourage racist terrorists. We CAN stop minimizing the painful fact that racism has been responsible for more deaths in this country than guns.

On edit: And yes, of course, we can strengthen gun laws. Let's just not put dealing with racism on the back burner while we do it.

But for the night it would have saved 9 beautiful lives..and maybe just maybe this creep would have been hit by a car the next day..
But I get it.. You want to believe that I am minimizing the racist issue which we are dealing with in the U.S... A very close minded interpretation.. But thats what you are doing..

But perhaps your “surrender to the NRA is the only reality” is your real agenda.

Gave yourself away when you stated “If we could simply stop everyone who would shoot somebody from getting a gun”....NO!!! thats not what I want.. I want to get rid of all guns and make your statement a reality..

You must be a 2nd Amendment guy..

I apologize.. You have no idea how much I detest Racist... Scum of hell...all of them..

passionately about an issue and I'm sorry that I came off sounding harsh. Everybody is so terribly upset over these cold blooded murders of a group of people who, even by the murderers own account, were filled with grace and kindness. I appreciate your response and I absolutely agree with you that behind racism, guns were the second most important factor in this act of terror and hate.
And I know you want to think of a way to make this filthy shit stop happening and I'm a hundred percent with you on that.

full of yourself, you can't see reason and the truth in this case, why?

Your argument seems to be that he would have killed them anyway, and still with a gun, just at a different time, with the net result still being mass murder of African-Americans by a racist.

Bottom line?

Racism killed those people. The weapon used was a gun. But he didn't need a gun to do it. Black churches have been torched and bombed, resulting in the loss of life throughout America's history. Those four names in the subject line? All dead because of racism. All dead by the use of dynamite.

Yes, gun control matters. It is important - but that won't change the fact that those 9 people were murdered because of their race. You seem to be overlooking the obvious - had he not been a racist, he would NOT have murdered them. They'd still be alive, had his racism not driven him to murder. He could have owned 100 guns, and he still would not have taken the step that he did had he not been filled with hate.

Yes, I think the all too readily availability of guns makes it easier to act, but I also know the root cause of this particular violence is hate, making racism, that ever present scourge, the primary focus.

Yes, the murders do demand we look at gun violence and how it affects society.

But don't ask people whose very lives could depend on the whims of a racist to downplay what they see in the mirror each morning. A person of color who might not survive the day because people refuse to address the problem of racism in America.

And let's not pretend America does address the issue, because our prisons say otherwise. Our justice system says otherwise. Police brutality says otherwise. The sheer number of hate groups in America says otherwise. The Confederate battle flag flying in South Carolina says otherwise. The denial even here on DU says otherwise.

westernize world.. Certainly don’t see or hear of a lot of bombs going off over there..

Are you telling me we shouldn’t have a global view of racism?

If you really want to promote your cause that somehow the gun the racist used is more important than the racism that caused the murders, then you should know that all your 'I hate racists, but the gun is more important' comments aren't going to land well. Especially since you felt the need to start a thread telling your "friends" whose lives are affected by racism each and every day how wrong they are to not agree with you.

You seem to think there can be no room for disagreement on which should be more important to a person's life.

You're telling African-American DU members that the gun is more important than the racism they deal with each day. That the gun is more important than the racism that caused the murders.

And when they disagree with you - you continue to tell them how wrong they are.

Even when someone agrees that gun control is important and that the murders demand we address the issue, you still attack, using fallacious arguments, by distorting what they said, just to make your cocksure point that guns are bad - racism, not as bad.

You can go ahead and say again how much you hate racists now.

And you can go ahead and distort my words again.

I'm enjoying the dirt piling up and the hole getting deeper.

But whats especially stands out.. is how you frame your side of the argument by predicting how your D.U. temporary adversary (in this case me) will react to your response..finally ending your argument with some sort of juvenile “gotcha on this one” final retort..

Obvious I detest racism to the core...And really this thread was really not about arguing that one is not more important than the other... It was directed at all the trolling amosexuals out there who continually try to negate the importance of the easy accessibility of guns in this country.

If maniac breaks into an apartment or house and ends up shooting/killing the occupant, I want to know where the gun came from and the circumstances which the murderer acquired it.. But so many times, pro NRA people immediately go to some dumb argument about how if only victims should had weapons in one one of their closets..

This exact imbecilic argument was all over the place today.. If only the Preacher had a gum.. If only there was an armed guard..All the crap you hear all the time from advent gunners..So I decided to address them in my own way so I could root them out.. Funny that you immediately took up their argument not by using the dumb arguments I’ve been hearing all day “should have been armed”. No you used the tact of accusing me of being insensitive to the 9 beautiful soles which were lost...Claiming I was more interested in the subject of easy gun accessibility over the lives of 9 Black human beings..That the subject of racism was not as important as guns.. God how shallow..

I might have addressed the issue in a manner which could have been defined more effectively.. But the way I was accused of defending racism is just unbelievable. Think you, either are one of the people who I wanted to address or you just like a dumb argument in order to show how clever you are..

You and I aren't that different, you know. I don't normally get involved in the gun control debates on DU because they get so co-opted. Nice way of putting it, I guess.

But the fact is, I am for gun control. That's all I'll say on the issue.

I choose to overlook your opening remarks, your later distortions of what I said, and your insults at the end.

You could have been more effective, as you said. You were coming across as dismissive, but your explanation lets me know where you were coming from and I can see how you would be frustrated. Again, thank you for explaining.

I mean that sincerely. Thank you.

Yea, we were both really going after the right people.. But in actuality both you and I were the wrong people..Our hearts are in the right place and thats whats important..

Really impressed with your response..Now I feel bad that I took out my anger on you...I need to learn to move on from angry back and forths. Not good for the health.

Please say hello once in awhile..

.......which I suspect that wouldn't have been that big of a chore seeing as he managed to get the one he used, and then he would have killed nine, or maybe more, other people. Or, as someone else said, he would have found a way to get his hands on a bomb, which might have been even more lethal.

Either his father gave him the gun as a gift as some reports have it, which would be a felony, by the way, or he bought it himself with money he was given for his birthday, as one of his friends claimed, in which case the background check process failed. So if he was determined to get another gun, he'd have found a way. Hate tend to be that strong.

Guns are just too easy to acquire..One day that will change.

He could instead have built pipe bombs, or used kerosene or gasoline to set the church on fire while people were inside, had he not had the gun(s?).

There's a good chance the bodycount might have been lower had he not had firearm(s?), but the intent to kill was there and was predicated on the racist ideology that had consumed him.

take a hammer and smash the barrel before throwing it away to save from someone possibly finding it and using if for whatever reason. We don't have to have guns in our world folks. We just don't. I'm 67 and I've not owned but one gun and it was only for a few days. I took it back to my friend who I bought it from and sold it back to him. A 22 rifle. It just didn't feel right for me to have it in my hands after living with a gun for 15 months where I felt at the time it might not be a bad idea as to have one with me.
I was young and in a war setting then. OK

imo

Racism is the point.
Racism is the cause.
Racism is the effect.

The gun was the means to an end.

comit a fucking act of fucking racist terrorism.

He was not going to kill nine people with a fucking
racist tirade.

He was too fucking ignorant to make a fucking bomb.

He was too fucking inept to kill nine people with a knife, a baseball bat, a brick, or a fucking bow and a fucking arrow.

The Fucking Gun was the Fucking fulcram, and without that fucking gun he was just hot air and anger.

Just wanted to let you know that.

Be well and best regards