General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is crazy: Meet the Americans Who Prefer to Go Uninsured
For millions, arranging treatment through cash, barter and charity is still better than paying for insurance. They include Lisa Khechoom of Glendale, Calif., who refuses to buy coverage. She says she pays a flat $35 for a doctor visit and often substitutes prescriptions with cheaper natural remedies for herself, her husband and their children.
Im spending money either way, but its going to be less, says the 41-year-old, who runs a telecom-service business with her husband that brings them an annual income of around $77,000. For the amount of office visits I do make, why pay $3,500 for insurance when Im not even taking advantage of it? We go to the doctor and we pay for it. Usually I can get a better deal than if I had insurance.
The laws penalty for not carrying insurance grows to its maximum next year and will start at $695 for an individual, up from $325 this year. That isnt enough to sway Ms. Khechoom, who says paying the penalty is still preferable to buying coverage.
The persistence of holdouts like Ms. Khechoom suggests that the U.S. health-care landscape under the landmark 2010 health law, in many ways, will look like it did before: A large pool of uninsured will use a thriving parallel market for treatment, one partly subsidized by taxpayers and the premiums of people who do buy insurance.
The laws supporters are trying to figure out how to get these people to embrace insurance. The laws opponents say the large numbers rejecting its central aim prove it is foundering. Both are waiting to see if the health-care overhaul survives the U.S. Supreme Court, which is expected to rule by months end on a case by plaintiffs who argue they shouldnt have to pay penalties for staying uninsured.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insurance/meet-the-americans-who-prefer-to-go-uninsured/ar-AAc4VTD?ocid=mailsignout
onecaliberal
(32,894 posts)She and any in her family are one small disaster or illness from complete financial ruin. This plan is the height of stupidity.
treestar
(82,383 posts)then if it does, they will complain about how unfair it all is.
SteveG
(3,109 posts)The typical fee for the uninsured in DE is between $120-$150 paid up front before you will be seen. Of course she will be shocked when her natural remedy doesn't work and her kid dies.
LeftinOH
(5,358 posts)some quack who mixes herbs and offers healing with crystal energy.
littlebit
(1,728 posts)if you don't have insurance. The Urgent Care place that is run by the hospital only charges $60.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)So it couldn't possibly be a bad experience with the insurance industry that would turn people away from them.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)Somehow I doubt too many doctors would accept that--even if you paid cash under the table. I can pretty much guarantee you that hospitals would not cut her that deep a discount.
Elwood P Dowd
(11,443 posts)haele
(12,676 posts)She and her husband maintain the telecomm and networks at the doctor's office, and he charges $35 a visit.
He saves $3K - $10K a year, she and her family get a huge discount equivalent to the co-pay the insurance companies would normally pay for the visits and pays the $200 or so a year on wrappings/Band-Aids/basic check-up consumables, lab tests and immunizations as needed.
If all you're looking for is basic health check-ups, common prescriptions, and immunizations, and no one has a chronic issue, breaks a leg, or needs surgery or a major outpatient procedure (like a colonoscopy, sonogram, or MRI), it's not a bad deal.
Works great, until she or her family get in an accident or needs an ambulance or major surgery. Or has a major problem that can't wait and that doctor is unavailable. Urgent Care or the Emergency room are not so affordable, nor are willing to "barter" services for care. Whenever the kidlet went to Urgent Care for her stress-related issues, it always ended up being at least $500 - and if you didn't have insurance, Urgent Care charged you $150 up front just to be seen. Emergency rooms usually start at $250.
In the area of California that this woman lives, a $77000 a year income is not going to easily absorb the hit for a Saturday visit to Urgent Care for an unexpected bout of dizziness, cramps, two exit gushing that looks bloody, and high fever.
Is it food poisoning that can be cared for by rest and hydration; or, stress and poor dietary choices, a food allergy, which can wait until Monday when the doctor's office opens; or is it appendicitis or pancreatitis, which needs immediate treatment or your kid or spouse could die before you can see your friendly cheap doctor?
In the latter case, Ms "owns a family business", your kid or spouse will end up in the emergency room and you'd be facing several tens of thousands of dollars that you will have to come up - and even if the hospital would accept payments, I don't see you getting your family member treated in a timely manner without a bank account check and at least a promise of payment for the first couple hundred out of pocket within a week.
She's not going to be eligible for a charity grant. She makes too much, even if she and her husband does agree to pay a penalty for not carrying insurance.
Approximately $2400 a year with $6000 deductible (that typically covers a goodly percentage of ambulance, pregnancy and birth, mental health, pharmacy, therapy, and most medical equipment over the course of a year) vs. each individual visit to an Urgent Care, Emergency Room, or Hospitalization that can cost the household budget out of pocket anywhere from $700 to $100,000, depending on what has happened to a member of her family. She's got two kids, and is of child bearing age herself. Something is going to happen eventually.
One major medical situation away from medical bankruptcy - run the risk.
I'd much prefer single payer, but I'd still get the insurance if I had a family or people depending on me.
Haele
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Yeah, it could be cheaper not to buy insurance, especially in the long run, but that's sort of a cheat.
SteveG
(3,109 posts)per year. So if you are diagnosed with a serious disease after that period, you have to wait until the next one to get insurance, for a serious illness, that could easily bankrupt you in the period you are not covered.
WCIL
(343 posts)until you have a hysterectomy ($36K), plantar fascia surgery ($6K), and a torn meniscus requiring arthroscopic surgery ($9K) all within 5 years, like what happened to me. I was perfectly healthy until I had a string of bad luck, and without insurance we would have been a hole we would never have been able to climb out of.
Prism
(5,815 posts)DU doesn't seem to believe this, but it is still better for a swath of people to pay the penalty rather than the insurance. For example, I have a buddy, not well off by any means, who isn't covered by work. We priced, repriced, and priced again his options via Covered California with subsidies. I looked for him. His HR person looked for him. He made calls.
He simply cannot afford it.
He can't afford to get sick, either.
I don't know who only pays $35 for a doctor visit. My work screwed up last month and my health insurance accidentally dropped for a month, right when I had a doc appointment for some immunization boosters. $65 for the visit, $100 for the vaccine.
Newp. I'll wait until my insurance rekicks in on the 1st, thanks much.
The woman in the article isn't a great example, though. She seems nuts.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)Many uninsured historically see the ER as their PCP, racking up prohibitive costs, as well as stressing hospital systems. In Washington state with have over a million and a half newly insured thanks to the ACA, and as the speaker said at the WSNA conference, many are insured for the first time.
These people may be that lucky couple that never needs surgery or extensive medical care, but it's doubtful, given what they are doing for preventative care.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)Most people don't like paying significant money for nothing.