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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 12:47 PM Jun 2015

It’s no Confederate flag, but our (Mass.) banner is still pretty awful

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/06/24/abraham/EqlC3F8W9tPGsjP4NkWE2N/story.html

Though the Massachusetts state flag is not as overtly abhorrent as the one that flies on South Carolina’s state capital grounds, it is still pretty awful....

Then it gets weird. On the shield stands a Native American drawn in gold, a bow in one hand, an arrow in the other — its point turned down to signify peacefulness. Or is it surrender?

But wait — what is that right above his head? Why, it’s a disembodied, muscular arm, brandishing a broadsword. And beneath the whole bizarre tableau is a Latin motto which translates to: “By the sword we seek peace, but peace under liberty.” It’s a slightly more genteel version of New Hampshire’s pugilistic “Live free or die.”

It is hard to read it all together as anything but a flag designed by and for the colonial conquerors who made the Bay State, the ones who won the land — with a short time out for Thanksgiving dinner — by all but eradicating the people who got here first.


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It’s no Confederate flag, but our (Mass.) banner is still pretty awful (Original Post) KamaAina Jun 2015 OP
Yes, the early Bay Area immigrants apparently believed... malthaussen Jun 2015 #1
Um, Bay State KamaAina Jun 2015 #2
That's what we call a brain fart, Kama :) n/t malthaussen Jun 2015 #7
Sounds like a nice story, but rogerashton Jun 2015 #3
Probably a different shipwreck malthaussen Jun 2015 #6
That's just the start Man from Pickens Jun 2015 #4
+1 Go Vols Jun 2015 #9
I'm not interesting in pulling the thread until the whole thing unravels. Adrahil Jun 2015 #11
HERALDRY 1939 Jun 2015 #5
It's a torse and a crest. Adrahil Jun 2015 #10
Well, Massachusetts was never at war with the United States, hifiguy Jun 2015 #8
Massachusetts was never officially at war with the United States, Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #12
Not as bad as the City of Whitesboro seal Major Nikon Jun 2015 #13
Holy crap! gollygee Jun 2015 #14

malthaussen

(17,216 posts)
1. Yes, the early Bay Area immigrants apparently believed...
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 12:50 PM
Jun 2015

... that it is okay to bite the hand that feeds you.

I still think the ultimate in chutzpah was the Jamestown shipwreck survivers who were saved by free blacks... whom they then enslaved.

-- Mal

rogerashton

(3,920 posts)
3. Sounds like a nice story, but
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 01:09 PM
Jun 2015

The "starving time" in Jamestown was 1610

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starving_Time

The survivors of Sea Venture also arrived about then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Venture

However, the first Black People came about 1619.

http://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/african-americans-at-jamestown.htm

Have I missed something in your post?

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
4. That's just the start
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 02:01 PM
Jun 2015

This country is full of state flags with awkward and/or offensive symbolism.

Not to mention that the US flag is pretty much the flag of genocide, in historical and modern eras alike.

In this mad rush of Two-Minute Hate on the Confederacy, a standard is being set that few if any will pass. Unless we're having some sort of "slavery bad, genocide good" kind of moment here, in which case we abandon all pretense of having moral and ethical values.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
11. I'm not interesting in pulling the thread until the whole thing unravels.
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 07:32 PM
Jun 2015

I'll settle for addressing the flag of a nation founded specifically on the principal of white supremacy.

1939

(1,683 posts)
5. HERALDRY
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jun 2015

Not sure what it is called in heraldry, but the little twist over the actual shield (with the sword arm) is some kind of appurtenance that doesn't relate to the shield.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
8. Well, Massachusetts was never at war with the United States,
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 05:46 PM
Jun 2015

which is a pretty significant difference.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
12. Massachusetts was never officially at war with the United States,
Thu Jun 25, 2015, 07:39 PM
Jun 2015

but people in the state considered secession during the War of 1812:

"Britain and France were at war in Europe, and both nations hoped to stop American trade with the enemy, a harassment that disrupted America's profitable "neutral trade" with the Caribbean islands. After numerous protests, President Thomas Jefferson declared an embargo in December 1807, banning all U.S. trade with belligerent ports. When Britain continued to interfere with American shipping, the two nations drifted to war.

"The declaration of war was a severe blow to New England, since its merchants had grown prosperous on commercial ties with Great Britain and its Canadian and Caribbean colonies. With seaports experiencing unemployment rates upward of 60 percent, Massachusetts Federalists protested the embargo, and when America entered the war, they continued trading with the British.

"Governor Caleb Strong refused to allow Massachusetts militia to leave the state, despite federal pleas for support, and opposition to the war emboldened some to call for New England's secession from the United States."

https://www.mainememory.net/sitebuilder/site/899/page/1310/display?page=5

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