and the south would rise again, cause shit floats

I was born and raised in Virginia...

Of course, I can't rule out the possibility that I was just missing the subtext

I grew up in a strange wart of a place on Baltimore's backside. I was taught pretty much nothing about the Conf. flag. They weren't very common, to be honest. To the point that when one kid brought one to school, many kids had to ask what it was. Seriously. It provoked no response. It went home and vanished, as far as I remember. In retrospect, that was about ideal. Not attacked, there was no defense necessary; no offense taken, there was little use in displaying it; not seen as having any importance, the bearer saw no reason to make an effort to display it. His pride not questioned, if that's why he had it, it didn't need to be asserted. Can you really rebel against nothing? (Now, of course, it would be massively disruptive, produce fights and hate and ill-will and self-righteousness on both sides. And this would be considered an advance, I'm sure.)

However, I was taught that the Black Power salute represented hate and violence. So there's always that. For whatever it's worth. How you viewed it depended entirely upon who you were and where you were standing.


Note that Maryland was divided in the 1860s and in discussing the Civil War, oddly MD was pretty much missing from my history classes in Maryland. Too many fault lines, too many ways to get off task. You never knew who's great-grandfather fought on which side, had slaves or was an abolitionist. Which blacks in class had slave ancestors during the war, which had been freed long before up north some place. Who cared and who didn't care.

Rather than get into debates and fights, the Civil War was viewed from a position of policies and battles, international relations, economic issues, and legal doctrines. Utterly impersonal and utterly situated in time and space. It wasn't right. It wasn't wrong. It simply was. And any animosities or resentments that remained on either side belonged in a museum. One day the teacher came in wearing a Union uniform. His companion teacher--they were friends, and sometimes swapped classes on us--wore a Confederate uniform. This did this every year--both had one of each. They also participated in re-enactments. What side you were on was decided by lot ahead of time, so you knew how to dress. It was that kind of a class.

We focused on the War of 1812, the Battle of Baltimore and, because it was local, the Battle of North Point. That they made personal. In addition to focusing on causes, policies, battles.

I associated it with the Dukes of Hazzard.

And school taught us next to nothing about the civil war.

It was a rebel flag for me too. My youthful views on the flag were the same as yours.

It was the confederate flag.

Never believed that people in the south were racist, however I did believe there were racist factions that did not let go of that war.

WE had racists in the north, mind you. When I move to Georgia, I realized that there are chucks of people that try believe the *south will rise again*

That always freaked me out. As a northerner, we were really taught that the civil war was a black spot on this nation.

I do not like that flag.

I had no idea there was any other one. I thought it was the national flag.

I do agree, not everyone that cheered on the Dukes of Hazzard were/are part of the KKK. Some people just really loved to watch them stick it to Bosshawg.

Don't think I remember anyone calling it a Dixie flag until the Dukes of Hazzard.

And it was always presented as a symbol of people pissed they lost the civil war.

The racial implications didn't dawn until I was a teenager.

One of my friends was seriously into Civil War history/trivia and I knew that flag was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia first. We reenacted battles from Thermopylae to Guadalcanal on his bedroom floor with his legion of little green army men.

Remember that poor girl who mistook it for the Union Jack?

I called it the Confederate flag or the Klan flag.

The latter invariably got me into trouble. I didn't care. I hated living there and was mad at my parents for it until I "ran away from home" to Boston.

as I saw it daily flying over a Confederate Cemetery when growing up.

radicals in the south have made it a symbol of hate and racism. Nobody ever displayed it until civil right legislation in the 60s, what else could it be. Racism is alive and well even in the north especially among people of my generation. I try hard but sometimes have those feelings myself it is hard to break when you were raised that way. I do 1000% better than most people of my generation I think, I bet I hear the N word at least once a day.

Texans were more interested in being Texans than being Southern, altho I did have an aunt who gently reminded me that "all your people are Southern people."

I went to college in the NE at age 17 and never returned to Texas to live...

White kid in Philadelphia. I was taught it was the Confederate flag and associated it with the Civil War. We were taught that the civil war was a stain on our history, a tragedy, and that good triumphed over evil. We were taught that slavery abso-fucking-lutely was the reason.

Back then, I didn't associate that flag with modern racists. We did have some white pride losers in the hood and they flew the American flag, the Irish flag, and the German flag. The confederate flag just want seen around her except on Dukes of Hazard and associated memorabilia.

Fast forward to today and that shit is EVERYWHERE here. I see that fucking flag in Philly, in the burbs....everywhere. I worked with a girl - who wanted a confederate flag wedding gown - who raised Coon Hounds and hunted with them. She had a license plate that was a confederate flag with the words "Coon Hunt" on it. She acted like she had no idea how that could possibly be offensive. Bitch.

I have neighbors who have confederate flag stickers on their cars. Can't throw a rock here without seeing it nowadays.

Just the Confederate flag.

My pasty white European ancestors were in the Americas by the time of the Civil War, but they were all the sort who avoided fighting like that, which is precisely why they fled to the Americas in the first place. My mom's family were pacifists and religious heretics, My dad's family were avoiding various sorts of trouble with the English.

Abraham Lincoln never made it out to California and I remember thinking as a kid that was sort of sad, one of my earlier reflections on the Civil War. The "South" of the U.S.A. seemed as far away to me as France. I did in fact visit France decades before I visited any southern "rebel" state. As a kid Arizona was as close as I got to that "Southern" mindset, what with the people from Arkansas and Oklahoma who'd been refused by California in the Great Depression.



My childhood communities were as racist as any other place in the U.S.A., the only difference being that they were 99+% white, and kept that way by underhanded measures, even after the passage of Civil Rights legislation.

These days such communities bother me. I haven't lived or worked in such places my entire adult life. Since the late 'eighties I've lived in neighborhoods where white people like me are a minority, and now find these self-segregated (wittingly so or not) white communities sort of creepy.

Growing up in Southern WV there was no race relation problems everyone got along. It's still like that for the most part, except on the internet.

Appalachian Ohio.

We had a gigantic rebel flag billboard hanging up at the high school football field. The school team was the Rebels and I believe it was also on the football helmets. Not my school but the town where my grandparents lived.

I never had any association of the flag with racism. The only thing I associated it with was that TV show Dukes of Hazzard.

When I got older and learned about history and politics I learned about the true meaning of flag, beyond the Dukes.

My whole family in Baton Rouge, Louisiana watched the Dukes of Hazzard and never to my memory took offense to it. I actually had a General Lee Hot Wheels toy car.

As you grow you learn history and stuff, but that show wasn't demeaning.

The real beef I have is with folks wearing rebel flags on t-shirts or bumper stickers, etc. I know where they are coming from instantly. And it ain't a throwback Dukes of Hazzard thing they are repping.


ps
I know someone whose spouse is related to one of the TV show's creators. They had no idea the show would be such a big hit nation wide.

teens. But, after I really understood what that period was about, I lost interest.

But my family is from Arkansas and Louisiana so maybe that's why. I don't remember what they told us it was called in school. Maybe the confederate flag.

There was also references to the rebel yell.

The fight song was Dixie.

Anyone care to guess where that might be?

I did not know it was just the "Battle Flag" until my 20's.

To me it was something the long haired car type guys who wore jeans but no shirt used to have on their cars. Having grown around actual hippies (Antioch College Ohio) and then moving to Virginia I saw it as a REBEL thing not a Confederate thing. Basically it identified the dope smokers. In the early 90's people got a voice and I learned that it was seen very differently.

There is a battle flag in Hoover's room in the movie "Animal House" BTW.

Using the detail of it being a battle flag, to me, has always been a way to derail or stall the conversation and soak up time.

We all know what "the rebel flag" means here in Virginia.



My take here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026904193

as racist until a few years ago.
There is a great line in the movie "Mississippi Burning" that demonstrates why it was not considered racist until more recently.
Mr Anderson, "If I were a Negro I would think just like they do."
Mr Ward "If you were a Negro nobody would give a damn you think."

but I grew up in a place (suburbs of Chicago) where there was never any doubt that the southerners were the villains and the northerners were right.

I've always called it "the confederate flag". I never knew anyone who had one or wanted one. It was just something I saw on top of "The General Lee" on the Dukes of Hazzard.

I have had very little contact with southern culture but one time (about 17 years ago) I was visiting a friend in southern Indiana. I drove down there but arrived early. I had 3 or 4 hours to kill. I don't really consider Southern Indiana the south (even though they have charming southern accents) so I decided to drive into Kentucky- to experience the south. Although by that time- I'd been all over the world, it was new territory- I'd never been to the south.

The first town I came to -- I think it was Owensboro (I might be wrong). I parked my car and walked around. I liked it. I grew up in a small town and Owensboro, in many respects, reminded me of small town life, not idyllic but it has its charms.

I felt safe and comfortable there. There was such a familiar feeling. 'The south isn't so bad' I thought. 'It's surprisingly similar to where I grew up'

And then I saw it. A huge bronze monument in the center of town. I don't remember what it looked like but I remember reading the plaque. It was a monument to all of the confederate soldiers who had fought and died in the Civil War.

Being taken by surprise I had a weird paranoid feeling. I looked around and suddenly the cute little shops and well kept buildings were no longer comforting. I felt scared and little sick. I returned to my car and drove back to Indiana.

Later I met my friend. And on my first night there we went out and had a really great time. We ended up at a gay bar. There we ran into some of my friend's acquaintances. Naturally, they asked me what I thought of their little slice of the world. I told them about my Kentucky experience (since we were in a gay bar, I expected complete sympathy/empathy) Instead, one of my friend's acquaintances, a college professor- no less, explained to me that it's part of their culture and then I felt a little ashamed for not respecting their culture.

What a complicated and confusing place the south is- It's not a place that I understand. I do understand that the symbols of the old south are hurtful and ugly- I experineced that (in a very small way) 17 years ago and support the effort to eliminate such hurtful symbols.

I can't recall any reference to it whatsoever.

Then I got old enough to know better.

I actually thought it was the government flag. Having visited Pea Ridge National Military Park at a young age, I thought for a long time that the flag on the right was the Confederate battle flag:

Florida after a stint in New England and refused to stand when they played Dixie before the games. I'd ask them, Why are you so proud of losing the war. I don't think that little act of rebellion endeared me to many.

never the Confederate battle flag.