I didn't vote for Ralphie then and I never will. And NONE of my leftist friends voted for him either.

However, I agree with the OP that they espouse a political philosophy that places ideological purity over political reality.

In that vein, I would observe that OWS's biggest failing, was withdrawing from the political process (on the grounds that "there's no difference" between the Democrats and Republicans) and withdrawing to their camps, effectively trying to create their own mini-political systems.

get the message there? That's political reality. You are saying not to fight for funds for the poor, or our vets or our seniors because that isn't political reality. Thank Dog our founders weren't listening to your political reality

Why do we keep needing to relearn what happened in 2000?

I seem to recall this Bush v. Gore case... I dunno. Also Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush... it is all a mist.

I guess it is easier to blame the left than it is to frigging read.

Repeat a lie enough and some will start to believe it. They have no shame and try every year to push that garbage on DU. Nothing about relearning...it is important that you believe their obvious lie or that someone here does.

For every person that does, Rove get a nickle.

Strange right for a progressive site...but after a bit you see whom here are only here to stir up shit and nothing more.

If he is the nominee......it should be an attack point.

there any established precedent for doing so when all the ballots had not yet been counted.

You and I may disagree mightily on matters large and small, but on this there is not one millimeter of daylight between our positions.

agrees. Gore ran an awful campaign, it shouldn't even have been close.

And I'm only "far left" by today's standard where anyone opposed to the death penalty is "far left." By historical standards I'm just leftish.

running from/shunning President Clinton, but MORE than that, imo, please forgive me, the Democratic party (along with Gore) failed to address the egregious behavior of republicans in stealing the election.

I doubt he'd have ignored "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the United States" warnings.

I doubt he'd let the Banksters off the hook, either.

That would make him a pretty darn good president, IMFO.

Now that you mention it, brooklynite, I don't remember President Clinton lifting a finger on his behalf during the fiasco in Florida.

why do you have such confidence in his ability to resist the neocons Iraq war. He didn't show this sort of idealism when he had power. He only showed this side when he had become irrelevant. Every elected dlcer voted for the IWR. Every one of them.

Obama claimed to oppose the Iraq war too, then accepted the surge and took almost to the end of his first term to get us out of it. Since then he has consistently supported overthrowing the government of Syria, which was another pnac target. Meanwhile he ignored an actual Al Qaeda insurgency among the Syrian opposition, which is another neocon policy preference.

Link:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/09/gore.bush/

From a speech he made on 11/9/03:

"I want to challenge the Bush Administration’s implicit assumption that we have to give up many of our traditional freedoms in order to be safe from terrorists. Because it is simply not true.

In fact, in my opinion, it makes no more sense to launch an assault on our civil liberties as the best way to get at terrorists than it did to launch an invasion of Iraq as the best way to get at Osama Bin Laden.

In both cases, the Administration has attacked the wrong target. In both cases they have recklessly put our country in grave and unnecessary danger, while avoiding and neglecting obvious and much more important challenges that would actually help to protect the country.

In both cases, the administration has fostered false impressions and misled the nation with superficial, emotional and manipulative presentations that are not worthy of American Democracy."

as I said Obama claimed to oppose it too. That wing of the party that was in power universally supported it. He is from the neocon dem wing just like Obama.

Doesn't sound all that bad,

Joe Lieberturd had no business being on a presidential ticket. AT all.

Talk about giving the "Both Parties are the Same" crowd fuel.

I think thise are making life better for people.

And if the 'angry left', by which i presume you mean 'progressive liberals' like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders can change the discussion, we can then change policy.

I don't consider Warren and Sanders to actually be part of the "angry left." Both of them, for example have said that they like and respect Hillary Clinton, something that the angry left doesn't do. The "angry left" are the people who are constantly bashing people like Obama and Clinton, totally ignoring the huge list of accomplishments the Democratic party has made in the last 8 years (in contrast to the disastrous 8 years before it).

I'm sure you've seen some around.

for people like Obama and Hillary. That's who I'm talking about. Bloggers, noisemakers, etc.

imo, that is why they are Bernie backers.

From a political standpoint, they don't think they deserve as much respect, and I tend to agree with them.

i think you may have a significant double standard going here

OK then.

There's a trend to pretend that the parties are the same, bash people like Obama and Clinton for every misstep, and at the same time ignore all the good things that Democrats have accomplished. And in the case of Obama, the list of accomplishments is impressive, and would be more so if not for GOP opposition.

Or is that still on the "to do" list?

non-progressive.

But notwithstanding that:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22end+capitalism%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl

"Fool" ignore.

Good riddance.

With a Democrat in the White House, accumulating historic progressive accomplishments, the whining just sounds whiny.

that we almost didn't see. Just barely sidestepped the thing. You guys are just so damned clever! What will us Progressives do? How will we ever defeat that incomparable wit and cunning? Oh, woah is me. LOL!

Otherwise I can see no real good reason to push the canard 'Gore lost' anymore in 2015. Simple desperation imo. They cannot stand it that we are not allowed to fight in GD anymore, it eats them up.

People that re-write history must need something that they cannot obtain on their own.

for Bush than leftists voted for Nader, but we so very rarely hear about that.

Democrats for Nixon. Not leftists.

Democrats for Reagan. Not leftists.

Bush would never have become president.

The Supreme Court was the MVP, but Nader was a very valuable member of the team.

Gore rightfully won the popular and electoral votes.

Nader's actions, however much you dislike them, were legal. When you blame him, you support Bush.

Apparently no one bothered to do any research either.

I seem to recall Choice point, butterfly ballots, Katherine Harris, Scrub lists, massive disenfranchisement leading up to the "President Select" by the supreme court. (and holy irony batman, has anyone considered the insane conservative rationale for the Bush v. Gore compared to the dissensions against the recent decisions in favor of gay marriage)

Is there something about research that scares of the various "hippie-punchers" on this board?

I guess to those folk it is easier just to assume that all lefties voted for Nader and then hang that damned albatross around our neck rather than to accept any blame at all.

And how is this not a post about the primary BTW? It really has all the earmarks of someone trying to anger progressives. I thought the point of creating a Primary GD place was to end this sort of stupid rancor.

then he wouldn't have lost more registered Democrat votes to Bush than to Nader. Only about 10x as many as registered Democrats that voted for Nader.

You wanna complain about Democrats voting for the wrong candidate, but you're being awfully selective about which ones outrage you.

are happy to call Hillary and Obama and folks who support them corporatists?

You realize that anyone can register as anything, right? You can register as a Republican if you feel like it. Since you support Bernie, if you did that would that be evidence that "Republicans support Bernie". That is as valid as the point you just tried to make.

Which was registered Democrats voting for Nader.

No use blaming the victims.

Trash thread.

Why do you want to cause division?

I'm not "causing" division I'm calling attention to it.

That just increases the stink

rec the Obama- and Democrat-bashing threads.

Personally, I think it is entirely appropriate to take issue with people who bash the most progressively consequential president since LBJ or possibly FDR, while at the same time contributing nothing.

Instead of the lie that you decided to go with

direction of the nation was in 2000, when (along with other factors), Nader tipped the scales for Bush.

About Nader

Nader didn't lose that election for Gore

Nader ran legally and legally earned his votes

there was so many illegal aspects to that election that cost Gore votes

plus the shitty campaign he ran

plus his choosing lieberman

plus his censorship loving wife

Gore lost by 536 votes - votes that would have been found in the state-wide recount had it been allowed to continue

Votes that would have been cast had Choicepoint not purged over 100,000 voters from the rolls

Votes (6000) that would have gone to Gore and not Buchanan (Jewish votes for Buchanan?) if it were not for the ridiculously confusing butterfly ballots

Way too many factors involved to scapegoat Nader

If we are going to arbitrarily label things and assess blame, then let's label the moderates for losing in 72, 80, 84, 88, and 04.

I wonder if Gore had a decent VP candidate instead of his attempts to look moderate, what the outcome would have been. Let's add 00 to the list to blame moderates for on that basis.

What a great and enlightening thread!!

stripped the middle class of their wealth. You are against feeding the poor, helping our seniors and call it political reality.

progressives, get them angry, post something that is (barely) hide-worthy and hope that their friends will be picked for the jury. The end game is, at the very least, get you on a time-out or, preferably, get you banned. (See what they did to cali.) Don't engage them in their topic of choice.

The OP is functioning in the role of a Republican when he posts things like this. The difference, as you've pointed out, is that if the OP were a Republican, we could reply with something like, "say it again, you misbegotten worthless subhuman piece of dogshit troublemaking fuckstain". But of course, Dan here isn't a Republican so we wouldn't say things like that to him. Still, it would be nice if he would skip these sorts of posts in the future.

The responses from the usual suspects is nothing less than priceless.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026928453

I'm glad you're back. You've already made improvements to the place.

I love the, "Cool story, bro" responses. LOL!

They're both overused by people who want to say something but lack the vocabulary to do so.

On Wed Jul 1, 2015, 09:59 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

You're exactly right. What a pathetic hobby the OP has.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6928532

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Passive aggressive, backhanded nasty insults directed at the OP. If you disagree, say so, just save the nastiness.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 1, 2015, 10:16 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Still a personal attack
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Funny I knew exactly who the OP author was before I even looked.
Not hide worthy
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It is a backhanded personal attack but the entire thread is worthless and the OP is nothing but flamebait.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post is spot on. Fuck the OP's bullshit premise. Let it stand.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Get over it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I'll work on being nicer to hypothetical Republicans in the future.

That one does it on a regular basis and so do his buddies in this thread supporting him. It is so obvious it should hurt, but I don't think they have the IQ to notice.

if the left handed Obama or any other Democrat a Congress, we would see progress. If will take every vote. Any of our candidates and our current President deserve support. Put your ideas on the table, but win the election!

here in Florida, the turn out has been awful, so we have not sent Democrats to the Senate or House. We lost Grayson and got him back. We had a split when Crist ran as an independent so the result was Rubio. If the Democrats had put a single candidate forward we could have won that one. In the last election, less than 40% voted.

It's very frustrating. I see a little action at rallies before elections, but most people are not engaged.

Compared to the days of the late 60's and early 70's, the country is not very politically active.

I would call them enablers

The Nader voters enabled the Supreme Court to steal the election

And omniscient? And omnipotent? Who knew?

• It was persistence from the "far left" that led to the Supreme Court ruling in favor of gay marriage
• It was pressure from the "far left" that made the president go large on overtime pay rules yesterday
• It was outcry from the "far left" after a church shooting that led to public disdain for racists and their symbols
• It was a populist message from a "far left" senator that is leading to a growing awareness about income inequality

Your criticism of the "far left" is duly noted.

Trash thread.

What else have 'far-left' 'hippie-punching' haters accomplished recently....

My goodness my ignore list is filling up fast....

i didn't know the far left ran Choicepoint or designed the butterfly ballot

or controlled the supreme court that shut down the state-wide recount

Was catherine Harris a member of the far left?

I think that you need to educate yourself before throwing such bombs

The SC fucked us not the american electorate.

Yeah please oh please give me a republican in democrat's clothing like both of the Clintons. That is what America needs more of. Compromise. NAFTA and DOMA. Hello of a fucking legacy and I hear that now, now she supports gay marriage. Since, like last Friday or so.

No thanks.

..

Theres no room for that in left-bashing!!

Many would disagree with that.

not

If the party wants the votes of the the Left, quit whining, and run to the left.

It has been made ABUNDANTLY clear to me by HRC supporters that my fringey vote is not required, but if they lose it will be my fault, not the fault of their oligarch approved candidate.

At least some of you are good for a nice morning belly laugh.

Good lord.

Like it is wrong to want Wall Street criminals prosecuted long with war criminals. Instead they are free to rape, pillage and murder again.

If Al Gore version 2002 had run instead of the Al Gore version 2000, Gore would have won in a land side.

That aside, it seems to me that Obvious Troll is obvious.

Thats how elections work. To blame Nader for the Gore-Lieberman train wreck that allowed the Bush regime to throw the election was Gore-Lieberman's fault, not Nerders.

OP seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the electoral process, with a heavy side order of whine and sour grapes..

acknowledged their differences, but emphasized that Gore would be a better president than Bush, and urged his supporters to vote for Gore. How history would have been different, and how much more respect I and many others would have had for Nader, would he have chosen this course.

And influence over Gore's policies. Instead we got idiot-boy and Iraq and torture.

I thought that's how a "democracy" worked. Strange how some people have a problem with that.

they've gone full circle and are actually RIGHT.

Yup, it serves the Right very well, to mock and disenfranchise possible voters for the candidate that they fear the most in the upcoming elections....and that's not Bernie.

Bernie is highly unllikely to win a General Election against a Republican, so it behoves the Right (or far left pretenders) to make the Herculean effort to get Bernie through the Primaries. I've read on several RW sites that where there are open Primaries, they will vote for Bernie as a fulfillment of that strategy.