This phone sucks

Well if I remember correctly most do not want it on public land.

CNN had details of those polled. 1,017 if memory serves.

Or in the "non-racist" North also?

I am positive there are racist in the north. I taunted my lily white Idahoan Air Force roommate into shouting, "There would be 10,000 dead (fill in the blank)! He was ragging on me about how racists we southerners were compared to his people. I asked a hypothetical question, "Suppose 10,000 African Americans were to move to Boise."

Lot's of racism to go around.

But they didn't view it the same way as you...

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika

Wow...we really do live in a clueless nation.

So...do the math.

Peace to you, Rex.

This is where the majority of idiots live.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Removing those flags is a direct way of countering the racism that killed those nine people.[/font]

on the internet but it can't stop domestic terrorist attacks. We need gun control and the fact that the dems are too cowardly to push for it made them retreat to this fall back position. The assassin didn't poke those people to death with a flag.

Not sure Roof could have been stopped. I'm not convinced "gun control" is the answer. I strongly believe that he is the kind of person who would have resorted to a bomb or arson.

But I agree that lowering a flag is bullshit compared to eradicating racism. And every time, because this isn't the first time this bone has been thrown to us, every time the answer to race problems is to remove a flag, I get very angry.

Ban all firearms and this nonsense would cease. Police should just carry pepper spray a radio and a wear a body cam.The Republicans obsession with firearms is troubling ,along with the racist NRA.

Being losers?

I'm a southerner and I don't get it. Flying a flag from a war that the south lost makes no sense.

I'm from the South, too (although admittedly the extreme NW corner of the Old Confederacy) and grew up in a town that back in the '60s didn't seem to give a crap about "Southern pride". My elementary school teacher had us sing "Dixie" a few times in music class, but that was about it from my experience.

of Virginia close to West Virginia. I was fortunate enough to have parents who were not racists who insisted we treat everyone with respect. As a young child my sister called the black woman who helped my pregnant mother out with the house ni***r - she had heard the word at school. She didn't really know what it meant. My father sat us three kids down and explained it was a terrible word that he never wanted to hear come out our mouths EVER. I've never used the word and the confederate flag was certainly not something to be proud of.

My dad's grandfather was in the civil war - he was conscripted and fortunately didn't fight but ran an iron furnace. That's all we were told and he wasn't considered a confederate soldier by the family.

Some are so prideful of their stupidity, that I don't think they even realize how hateful they are being.

from the CNN article: Among whites with a college degree, 51% say it's a symbol of pride, 41% one of racism. Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it's a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.

Does this mean America is racist?

I suppose if the poll was weighted toward Southerners, then the final percentage might be exaggerated?

the rest of the country.

" a random national sample of 1,017 adults"

And once those are read, there can be no doubt that the confederacy was 100% entirely about slavery and nothing else.

This is not a matter of Republican vs Democratic.

This is a matter of researching 5 minutes on Google and reading some damned history.

Is our country just chock-loaded with willfully stupid people?

Because for me, right along with slavery, is the first thing to come to my mind when I see it.

Pride that their ancestors fought in a treasonous war and killed troops of the United States of America?
Pride that their ancestors kept human beings and used them as slave laborers?
What are they proud of? Seriously, I don't know.

I've never seen anyone flying that flag for whom this old southern gal had any respect. It just screams redneck idiot to me.

in question, or any confederate flag was rarely displayed except at the occasional funeral of a confederate veteran after the war. Even Robert E. Lee spoke out against such lingering symbols until his death and had no symbolic flags at his funeral. The flag came roaring back to prominence as an intentional symbol of opposition to the civil rights movement in the late 1940s/50s. Strom Thurmond and his ilck were a big part of that.

It was intentional. It was racist.

That said, I am a big proponent (per my sigline) of maintaining history in the many museums, battlefield parks, cycloramas and even historical homes (yes, I have no problem with there being such a historical home site/museum open to the public as is currently the case for the home of Jefferson Davis on the gulf shores of Biloxi, Mississippi. Nor am I in favor or removing the old monuments in general--Richmond, for instance, nor the carved relief on Stone Mountain in Atlanta. At this point, they can all be considered "historical" .

Still, highways, parks and public facilities should not be named for KKK figures and i'm not too thrilled about some bearing the name of confederate generals, even if that dates back decades.

Getting this flag--a purposeful symbol of racism-- off of public grounds is my key issue and back into the historical context from which it evolved. I have no problem with it flying (in context) on the grounds of battlefield parks and civil war museums.

I will remember this.

The battle flag represented that side.

Next case?

I wish I'd seen him on that moron Morning Schmoe's show saying that. I wonder if Joe was there to hear it.

he was not a racist when he ran for office. Said it right up until they convicted him of bombing a church in Birmingham.




Nowadays, darn near anyone with a confederate flag is a racist, and most like to intimidate people just like the Klan.

People don't want to risk being seen as an asshole personally or anything.

Last edited Thu Jul 2, 2015, 08:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Born and raised in Georgia.

I take no pride in slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow, segregation, lynchings, discrimination, hate - everything the various flags of the Confederacy stood for and stand for now. That's the history of the south. Not its only history but it is a very big part of its history. A huge part. An ugly part that still lingers.

It lingers because ignorance clings fast to those unwilling to separate themselves from a time and place that holds nothing but shame and brutality. The south was wrong. That's not hard to admit. It should be obvious to all in the south, but some want to believe in fairy tales of happy slaves and kind masters. Of lost fortunes and good names. Of better times. (Better for whom exactly? - white people, of course)

Some want to believe the south was bullied into doing the right thing instead of admitting how wrong and barbarous slavery was (and Jim Crow, segregation, and the continued worship of a government (the Confederate govt.) that embodied the vile and evil system of oppression and hate). As if admitting it was wrong would somehow make them less. When the opposite is true - know your past, learn the lessons, and forge a better future by not embracing the worst of your history. That includes dropping the symbols of that shameful past. That you cling to those symbols lets the world know where your heart is, and it's not with pride. It's with ignorance.

People cling to lies and ignorance, to tales told over and over again of the grace and charm of the "old south" and how the north ruined it. But there is nothing genteel about hate. There is no grace in discrimination. There is nothing charming about treason for the sake of keeping people in chains. There is no pride in a history that clings to days gone by when those days were days of cruelty and brutality. A symbol of that oppression, the various Confederate flags, isn't anything to be proud of.

The south once cried they won't be reconstructed, and some in the south are still saying it. How stupid is it to cling to a past you have absolutely no understanding of? That you obviously have no real knowledge of? Because if you did understand anything at all about slavery or Jim Crow, of those flags you wrap yourself in, you wouldn't call it pride. Unless pride is your code word for hate.

I'm from the south. I speak with a southern accent. There's no mistaking my drawl - it marks me as a Georgian born and raised in the piedmont. Just as I can tell where other southerners are from, I'd wager many outside the south could not. Some think we all sound the same. We don't.

And we don't all think the same either.

so recommended.

(and congratulations on your excellent post).

I worked at a company in Los Angeles with many black employees. What was fascinating is that though they were all born and raised in LA, they had the accents of their families, and I could pick out the difference between Georgia and Texas and Tennessee and Virginia. I'm not sure I could do it anymore, but I could then. LA also had the largest expatriate population of Louisianans outside Louisiana, so much so that the Creole zydeco bands from Louisiana would tour the black Catholic churches there. Most of the families came to LA in WWII for the defense industry jobs, and stayed.

Since the first voices most of us hear are those of our own family. Maybe the older we are the harder it is to lose the accent, so we pass it on no matter where we live?

Music is part and parcel to culture and identity, so I would be shocked if the traditions of Zydeco didn't go with natives leaving Louisiana. Not to mention the language that left with them (Louisiana Creole).

LA has excellent Creole and soul food restaurants.

I'm in rather plain, central southwest LA, right next to Texas. That's my only excuse.

and I got some good food there, too!

The Llano del Rio Cooperative Colony was a socialist society established in 1917. Oh, and it was a hide-away for outlaws. The area, not New Llano.

The Parish seat was named after Robert E. Lee and the Parish itself after Mt. Vernon. Mainly settled by Anglos, with some French and Spanish influence, as well as Caddo Indians. Spain especially, since it was part of what was once called the "Neutral Strip".

It lacks the flavor and color you'll find in other parts of Louisiana. I don't have to travel far to find it though.

I make a point of learning some of the history of where I live. I've lived all over and it's just something I do.

More than you ever wanted to know. lol

and because of it's unique history has developed a unique culture than blends all these different influences. Spanish, French, African, English, Caribbean countries. It was multicultural before the term had been invented.

I am a big music fan, and was actively collecting Cajun and Creole music at one point. Louisiana is also the home of jazz, one of the most influential music genres of all time.

Years ago I went on a cross-country trip with a friend. We got off I-10 and headed south on 90 through Lafayette, where we stayed, and went through New Iberia and Houma on our way into New Orleans. It was a very interesting trip.

the people in L.A. keeping their accents, and the Zydeco bands. I think the very nature of Louisiana's history is the major reason the culture (language, food, music, etc..) carries over into new places so strongly. It's a long and varied history to get into and I was afraid of being too long-winded. I can be.

It really is a gem among the 50. Sadly, the languages born in this state are dying out.

I hope more people read it. They did a reprint of it today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/01/why-do-people-believe-myths-about-the-confederacy-because-our-textbooks-and-monuments-are-wrong/

Thanks, Duppers.

Using the symbol of a treasonous, immoral, racist, and losing cause hardly fits the bill of something to show pride. What exactly are these loons proud of that the battle flag represents?

I recently heard an interesting discussion about this on npr but cannot find a link. If anyone can, please post it. Thx.

Just because they're the majority doesn't make them right.

they are the majority on the Supreme Court...

With no understanding whatsoever of history.

Not that it's entirely their fault, as history is almost always very badly taught in this country. But anyone who thinks the Civil War was about anything other than slavery is an idiot. With almost no knowledge of history.

If only the rebel flag had been made illegal immediately after the Civil War, and if only those who displayed it had been subject to appropriate penalties, maybe today we wouldn't have so many ignoramuses out there.

If you're proud of slavery, then great. The confederate flag is your symbol. If you understand how terribly wrong slavery was, then it's not your symbol.

Jesus Fucking Christ. Why is it that more than 150 years after the end of the Civil War - which the south lost - are we still debating this?

mr liberty and I were discussing this earlier. It was a really popular show, and not overtly racist or anything as far as I can remember. I don't remember seeing a lot of African Americans on it, but I also don't remember it as presenting a "racist" or anti-African American viewpoint. But, the General Lee (their car) had a big ol' rebel flag on the roof and the characters were unapologetically southern. I think that is where the "Southern Pride" point of view comes from. I'm 56, and that show was on when I was just a kid, probably a pre-teen or very young teenager (I haven't looked up the run dates or done the math, and I'm not sure I want to give myself that kind of age-check, lol!). So I think there are probably a whole lot of southerners (and others) whose only real frame of reference for the rebel flag are a teevee show about some wild, partyin' southern boys. I think that show changed the flag for many from a symbol of hatred and oppression to a cultural symbol of southern pride and youthful rebellion against authority. There are probably a lot of people who never learned differently, and have never realized how offensive it actually is to those of us who did learn and do know differently. It's not that these people are actually racists, although some of them are; I think some of them just don't know or understand the flag's history. Most of the people who want to fly that flag seem to be the type that would not have been paying attention in history class...

Let us hope ours is over in 150 years. Sometimes it takes many generations for countries to heal. It was a tragic and traumatic time that does not need reviving.

I feel like this last week or so that there is a shift happening, maybe we're moving forward again. When crappy stuff is happening in the world, I will often say to mr liberty that we are in the wrong reality, that we're supposed to be in the reality where Reagan didn't win, John Lennon didn't get murdered, and Al Gore took the oath of office in 2000!

is either dumb as a post, woefully uneducated or, most probably, both.

And make no mistake about it, but based on looks and looks alone, the Confederate Battle Flag is one of the best looking flags the world has ever seen. It's sexy as hell. A shame it's message isn't as pretty.

when they see the confederate battle flag? Is that really worth it?

The idea of "southern pride" is as absurd as racism. "We're not racist, we're just proud of our racist heritage." Right.