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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:35 PM Jul 2015

BFEE Just Us

Never thought I'd see the day when I have to defend myself on DU for what I've written about the BFEE, shorthand for Bush Family Evil Empire.

Bartcop coined the phrase to put a handle on the cabal that use their political and economic power to enrich themselves at the expense of the nation. They include the Wall Street types and their heirs who were the political and legal enemies of Gen. Smedley Butler.



Bill Moyers, Alfred W. McCoy and others have identified some of these players as part of “The Secret Government.” They use political and financial power under the cover of official secrecy to selfishly gain and unreservedly serve the ultra-right and ultra-rich who through their combined and concerted criminal actions have become the most powerful and undemocratic group in human history.

Among their policies that have remained in place since at least 1981 are the major tax cuts for the rich, while simultaneously increasing public spending on military hardware and now warfare and disaster capitalism without end while cutting back public expenditures, if not eliminating entirely, public education, housing, healthcare, welfare and other social-benefit programs. It also is why, by design and by law, most of the wealth created since Reaganomics has accrued in the pockets of the richest of the rich. It was supposed to.



Rather than bringing all that up, while still making them easy to identify, I call them the BFEE. Perhaps the best moniker for them is the War Party, for using their positions to make money through death, suffering and the exploitation of humanity. It’s what George W Bush meant when he said, “Money trumps peace.” And for the record, the last president to stand up and oppose these unmitigated warmongers was President John F. Kennedy.

Anyway, that bothers some DUers. Tuesday, I made the observation that a person is only a suspect until convicted in a trial. That concept is central to our system of justice, yet I got mocked by several DUers for stating it. The idea that all are innocent until proven guilty and the idea that all are equal under the law are basic to democratic government.

Here’s what I suspect these DUers don’t know or don’t want to acknowledge knowing. There are truly evil people in positions of power, both in and out of government. An important example is this guy, thoughtfully misidentified by Fox TV as a Democrat, the former Republican representative out of Florida, Mark Foley, BFEE:



The now-known child predator was given a position to oversee laws designed to protect children from child molesters. What’s more, Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) covered it up. In America, married households may now be a minority, but parents who have kids hate child molesters. Same for most people, in general: Child molestation generates universal hatred.

That’s why Fox and so many other “news” media have tried to connect Foley, “by accident,” to the Democrats. Even Huffington Post made the connection. Once an idea is in a person’s head, it takes a LOT of Truth to drive it out. Consider the nonexistent ties between Osama and Saddam that so many Americans still believe to exist. So, if the connection between the House Republicans and Foley can be made in the minds of enough Americans, they will not vote for Republikkkens.



Eleven GOPers Fingered in Foley Cover-Up

By Justin Rood - September 30, 2006, 9:32 PM
Roll Call's John Bresnahan reports:

As of Saturday evening, nearly a dozen House GOP lawmakers and staffers have acknowledged that they knew of the initial batch of non-sexually explicit messages from Foley to a 16-year-old former House page, some of them for a year or more. These include Hastert (R-IL); Majority Leader John Boehner (Ohio); National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Reynolds (N.Y.); Reps. Rodney Alexander (La.) and John Shimkus (Ill.); Mike Stokke, the Speaker’s deputy chief of staff; Ted Van Der Meid, Hastert’s counsel; Paula Nowakowski, Boehner’s chief of staff; Jeff Trandahl, the former Clerk of the House; and another Hastert aide and Alexander’s chief of staff, according to public statements and GOP insiders.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/eleven-gopers-fingered-in-foley-cover-up



Not only did he chair the Congressional Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, Foley was in the House GOP leadership. As Deputy Majority Whip, he might’ve followed in the sweaty steps of his mentor, Dennis Hastert as Speaker of the House. That’s something you won’t hear mentioned by John Boehner or anyone on Fox TV.

Foley never went to trial. But he should have been investigated in public, preferably by a Grand Jury led by a Special Prosecutor. Same for his colleagues in power, Dennis Hastert. A big reason they aren't around when you need one is George H.W. Bush let the special prosecutor law expire.



This is hard to write about when all the powers are with those in secret offices of government. Consider what Snowden, Assange and the other brave whistleblowers in and out of government and private industry have endured just to give us a peak at the top of the iceberg that represents the virtually unlimited spy powers applied by the FBI, NSA, DIA, CIA and who knows what else.

Then again, if DU, like Bartcop before us, and Thom Hartmann and Talking Points Memo and ConsortiumNews and the all too few others didn’t, who would? Rupert Murdoch? Roger Ailes? ABCNNBCBSFakeNoiseNutworks? Not bloody likely.

So thanks to all the DUers who mock me for posting about the BFEE. I don’t do it because I enjoy it. I do it because I don’t want the bastards who use their positions of power and wealth to prey on the less fortunate, or, in the present case, the weakest members of the world, children. Telling you about it is why the pen is mightier than the sword and Freedom of the Press so fundamental for democracy, it's enshrined in the Constitution of the United States.
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BFEE Just Us (Original Post) Octafish Jul 2015 OP
Sick bastards! Kicking AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #1
It's been a long, long run of helping the Have-Mores become the Have-Most. Octafish Jul 2015 #5
I may not always reply madokie Jul 2015 #7
+1 think Jul 2015 #9
Abso-fvcking-lutely. blm Jul 2015 #85
yes G_j Jul 2015 #241
I tried to warn those around me of these sleezy low grade criminals, I was ridiculed AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #14
your MS Word files must be sorted by greatness snooper2 Jul 2015 #2
Key Word Octafish Jul 2015 #8
k&r questionseverything Jul 2015 #104
You keep on telling it like it is. I'll have your back. shraby Jul 2015 #3
Online Covert Actions Octafish Jul 2015 #16
I'm sorry marym625 Jul 2015 #4
He is one of the folks defending Cosby on the basis of "never convicted" stevenleser Jul 2015 #22
I defended the right to be innocent until proven guilty. Octafish Jul 2015 #29
And in fact one of the things I have noticed on MSNBC is that they are doing exactly that. If they jwirr Jul 2015 #98
Um, if Cosby hsn't been proven guilty, then why... Nitram Jul 2015 #102
Uh, because I think even the worst of the BFEE also deserve a fair trial. Octafish Jul 2015 #208
I don't think anyone has said Cosby doesn't deserve a trial. Nitram Jul 2015 #211
You are trying to smear him for defending justice. He clearly is not defending Mr. Cosby. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #57
Smear him? His hypocrisy on Cosby versus pronouncing the BFEE guilty is staggering stevenleser Jul 2015 #62
I thought Foley was never convicted? Isn't he as innocent as a lamb too? bettyellen Jul 2015 #166
I'll bet if we did searches we would find hundreds of examples when he accused folks of things stevenleser Jul 2015 #192
Then GOOGLE and show, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #205
How many more do you need? We have already mentioned Bush, Cheney and the BFEE. Isn't that enough? stevenleser Jul 2015 #210
So, you've got nothing. Octafish Jul 2015 #217
This is the kind of debater you are. Half a dozen to a dozen of us have provided you several stevenleser Jul 2015 #218
It's a simple question: ''Show where I am wrong.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #236
He is NOT defending Cosby, Steven tkmorris Jul 2015 #90
Oh yes, he is, and he is asserting a standard he never applies elsewhere. It's obvious. stevenleser Jul 2015 #91
he applied a whole other standard of judgment toward Cosby..... bettyellen Jul 2015 #169
Thank you, marym625. Looking back, I admire the overall work as a most splendid smear. Octafish Jul 2015 #26
Well said sir. You, and those that speak the truth will always be a target. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #67
yep nt G_j Jul 2015 #209
Mocking is a tactic used rhett o rick Jul 2015 #68
this post cannot be heaven05 Jul 2015 #113
Hail Bartcop Hail Octafish If the world was fair Joni Ernst would be folding breadbags this summer. IADEMO2004 Jul 2015 #6
The Tea Party's Endgame Octafish Jul 2015 #58
Don't sweat it Octa whatchamacallit Jul 2015 #10
Jury results.......... nc4bo Jul 2015 #20
hahaha` grasswire Jul 2015 #24
This session has been called to resolve a troubling matter. Marty McGraw Jul 2015 #36
well done jury!!! navarth Jul 2015 #42
Thanks to the alerter for the explanation and the indication of a big problem rhett o rick Jul 2015 #54
At this point Nevernose Jul 2015 #153
A 3-4. I see. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #61
Democracy needs treat all the same under the law. What group gets ahead? Octafish Jul 2015 #65
Kick in solidarity nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #11
The CIA Role in the Savings & Loan Crisis Octafish Jul 2015 #69
The whole S&L crisis and Neil Bush's role in it has been allowed to drop into the memory hole! LongTomH Jul 2015 #116
JEB's own role in the S&L thing was overshadowed, if possible, by SILVERADO Neil. Octafish Jul 2015 #139
Kick. madfloridian Jul 2015 #12
The CIA: Banking on Intelligence Octafish Jul 2015 #71
And recommend nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #13
Pete Brewton: The Mafia, CIA & George Bush Octafish Jul 2015 #86
K & huge fucking R CrawlingChaos Jul 2015 #15
NSA docs contradict Bush Jr 9/11 claims Octafish Jul 2015 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #131
Excellent. Thank you Octafish CrawlingChaos Jul 2015 #140
I think the point was that serial rapists are also disdainful BainsBane Jul 2015 #17
Yep. And the analogy is a good one. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #23
Yeah, pretty simple. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #43
And he didn't directly address the issue that this OP is really about. The OP is manipulation stevenleser Jul 2015 #56
Yup... SidDithers Jul 2015 #66
I've asked you over the years to show where I'm wrong about the BFEE. Octafish Jul 2015 #77
The criticism is about your response to Bill Cosby, not Bush BainsBane Jul 2015 #106
No, not really, BainsBane. Octafish Jul 2015 #119
What was the topic of the thread you were in where it was raised? BainsBane Jul 2015 #121
''Whoopi is still saying Cosby innocent until proven guilty'' Octafish Jul 2015 #124
You are correct that he LEGALLLY has not been found guilty BainsBane Jul 2015 #132
Then why make a big deal of what I didn't say? Octafish Jul 2015 #137
You chose to write an OP BainsBane Jul 2015 #151
You claim Foley is guilty- but that statute of limitations ran out too. Same shit, different story bettyellen Jul 2015 #170
And with his response to you, down you go down the rabbit hole. He's even telling you what you stevenleser Jul 2015 #120
Please show where I wrote any of that. Octafish Jul 2015 #123
I am genuinely puzzled by the double standard. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #73
This is what I have come to expect from discussions with that person stevenleser Jul 2015 #75
OMG, and he did it to Sid just above. Exactly the kind of crap I said he does. stevenleser Jul 2015 #81
So now I can't reply on my own thread? Octafish Jul 2015 #82
Yes, of course that's what my comment means. Strawman much? Actually calling that a strawman is stevenleser Jul 2015 #83
Right. Like 'taking some piece of what the person actually said and twisting it' isn't what you did. Octafish Jul 2015 #88
Nope, and several other folks agreed that is the upshot of what you wrote. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #89
'Make the comparison between his positions on Cosby and the BFEE and he accuses you of supporting... Octafish Jul 2015 #92
Here, you accused me of supporting the BFEE. "Stick with the BFEE Stevenleser" stevenleser Jul 2015 #94
Because that was the subject of the post? Octafish Jul 2015 #97
Explain to me why you think a serial rapist with 48 complaints BainsBane Jul 2015 #108
Hoist on his own whatchamacallit! bettyellen Jul 2015 #173
Over 24 hours later and the response to you is <crickets> stevenleser Jul 2015 #252
Yeah. Like where I've asked you up and down this thread to show where I'm wrong. Octafish Jul 2015 #274
I've shown you. Bainsbane has shown you, BettyEllen has shown you stevenleser Jul 2015 #275
Yup. zappaman Jul 2015 #277
Repeating the same strawman over and over doesn't make it correct, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #78
This OP and the links I provided where folks can read the other comments is all the evidence I need. stevenleser Jul 2015 #79
No. The Point Is JUSTICE. Octafish Jul 2015 #148
Justice indeed BainsBane Jul 2015 #152
I didn't know I had to write what you wanted me to write. Octafish Jul 2015 #154
I asked you questions, which you consistently refuse to answer BainsBane Jul 2015 #155
Not really, when you look at what I wrote and what you asked. Octafish Jul 2015 #157
Interested in discussion? BainsBane Jul 2015 #158
Dude... OnyxCollie Jul 2015 #18
How VP Poppy Bush of CIA got real big when Pruneface Raygun was ''Head Honcho'' Octafish Jul 2015 #95
You're one of the most right-on DU'ers of all. I treasure your posts, and the knowlege behind them. NBachers Jul 2015 #19
One Morn' in Sherwood Forest... Octafish Jul 2015 #115
The all American fascist family. n/t PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #21
Experts Agree! Octafish Jul 2015 #122
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #25
Is David Petraeus Dirty? Ted Westhusing Said So, and Then He Shot Himself. Octafish Jul 2015 #130
Yes She Does... Thank You For That !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #136
Ha I have connections to both Bushes and Smedly Butler (my Grandfather met and admired him). gordianot Jul 2015 #27
Smedley Butler is STILL considered a real hero to jomin41 Jul 2015 #87
My kids never heard of Butler from school before 2004, I made sure they did. gordianot Jul 2015 #103
Glad you are. Great family and a great family name, Bush. Octafish Jul 2015 #161
Odd my relative met his cousin Bush on his Grandfathers oil field in Kansas. gordianot Jul 2015 #183
k and r and bookmarking for later reading. niyad Jul 2015 #28
Remember how Rove really liked to fire and promote US Attorneys? Octafish Jul 2015 #168
oh, how well I remember (and wish I could forget) old turd blossom. niyad Jul 2015 #171
Too many don't know what they've done to the country and to Don Siegelman. Octafish Jul 2015 #177
there are days I don't think we can ever set things right. niyad Jul 2015 #180
The way the playing field is currently laid out, no. Octafish Jul 2015 #184
Octafish, you're one of the reasons I still send people to DU. canoeist52 Jul 2015 #30
The Bush dynasty and the Cuban criminals Octafish Jul 2015 #188
I would never mock you for your post. SoapBox Jul 2015 #31
Mark Lombardi knew Bush-Bath-bin-Laden connection in 1999. Octafish Jul 2015 #189
Keep it up. Too many want to whitewash the past and "move-on". jalan48 Jul 2015 #32
The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism Octafish Jul 2015 #190
The day you get drummed out of here, is the day this Cleita Jul 2015 #33
+100000000 nashville_brook Jul 2015 #39
I think Cosby is a creepy rapist Hydra Jul 2015 #34
Some never get the opportunity. Remember GOP US Attorney John David R. Atchison? Octafish Jul 2015 #141
I remember the case being posted here, and the Repubs being upset about it being their team again Hydra Jul 2015 #187
A lot of them settled in Huntsville, helping the Army build rockets, boosters, and what-all. Octafish Jul 2015 #194
Keep 'em coming!!! malaise Jul 2015 #35
NONE of this is old news, malaise. Especially to those touched by BFEE. Octafish Jul 2015 #197
There's a lot of child preadators and serial adulterers popping up in the GOP lately. Initech Jul 2015 #37
What to those who kill millions for oil and gold is abusing a child? Octafish Jul 2015 #198
I remember when the Sandusky scandal broke. Initech Jul 2015 #204
Strange how quickly the 'media' forget. Remember that nice juvie Judge in business with the prisons? Octafish Jul 2015 #206
K&R 2naSalit Jul 2015 #38
Poppy Bush Strikes Gold! Octafish Jul 2015 #199
You're quite welcome Octafish... 2naSalit Jul 2015 #300
strange days. thank you for the work you do! nashville_brook Jul 2015 #40
The Machine: Taking the Risk out of Democracy, Corporate Propaganda vs Freedom & Liberty Octafish Jul 2015 #200
You're one of the few out there always worth reading. rwsanders Jul 2015 #41
BFEE judge Silberman compared people who say ''Bush lied America into war'' to NAZIs. Octafish Jul 2015 #203
K&R&bookmark. JEB Jul 2015 #44
Banksters plus secret inside information is Wall Street on the Potomac. Octafish Jul 2015 #242
Same here RobertEarl Jul 2015 #45
That is all I want. Octafish Jul 2015 #256
Thanks, Octafish. Love your posts, and this one was no exception. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #46
BFEE think they're above the law, which is different than just breaking it. Octafish Jul 2015 #257
Well done! Duppers Jul 2015 #47
You made my day, 5-4. Octafish Jul 2015 #258
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #48
You gotta go BFEE to get along in Iraq. Look who they sent to run the war. Octafish Jul 2015 #259
I only wish we could get justice. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #270
BRAVO! BRAVO! ........and is Bush... Hotler Jul 2015 #49
That is the fake journalist Jeff Gannon aka The Cannon, on-call 24/7. Octafish Jul 2015 #269
There is a movie out about Johnny Gosh aka Jeff Gannon. Hotler Jul 2015 #288
KnR! Looky here... Holly_Hobby Jul 2015 #50
Bush gave coin to Goldstar mother and said: ''Don't go selling it on e-Bay.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #289
The entire family reeks of Psychopathy on steroids Holly_Hobby Jul 2015 #291
* ''No WMDs here.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #292
Family and friends... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #51
I see what you did there. .... nc4bo Jul 2015 #53
Hard to tell who's spying on whom in that shot. Octafish Jul 2015 #290
Just another tool looking for their 15 minutes- sent here to distract. notadmblnd Jul 2015 #52
A missing art. Octafish Jul 2015 #293
I have learned so much from your azmom Jul 2015 #55
Key to present day: Secret Service didn't like African Americans in 1963. Ask Agent Abraham Bolden. Octafish Jul 2015 #295
k&r.. jiminey christmas!. . . . .n/t annabanana Jul 2015 #59
Corruption Touched CIA’s Covert Operations Octafish Jul 2015 #296
I wonder Octa.. annabanana Jul 2015 #299
A shot of Chinaco to Bartcop for teaching me about the BFEE corkhead Jul 2015 #60
You know who else Bartcop seemed to enjoy going after, corkhead? Pirates! Octafish Jul 2015 #297
Thank you very much. Bookmarking. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #63
Thank you, SusanCalvin. I agree 100-percent. Octafish Jul 2015 #298
Kickin'....!!!! (eom) CanSocDem Jul 2015 #64
Richard Nixon's Blueprint for the 21st Century US Octafish Jul 2015 #302
Who is mocking? PM me. lonestarnot Jul 2015 #70
Post on, My Friend, post on! The BFEE and their sycophants are endemic of the fetid rot that... Raster Jul 2015 #72
Harold Pinter - Nobel Lecture on Truth, War and the Big Lie Octafish Jul 2015 #303
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jul 2015 #74
I've learned much from this OP but better yet... chknltl Jul 2015 #76
''No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money.'' -- Dr. Samuel Johnson. Octafish Jul 2015 #304
I noticed you never got an answer to your question about Cosby. Rex Jul 2015 #80
That's a sign, an inability to focus on the point and a talent to promote the freak show. Octafish Jul 2015 #305
Salute to my compatriot, Octafish. blm Jul 2015 #84
Dude, that's a bad case of bait-and-switch. How dishonest Android3.14 Jul 2015 #93
Exactly. Par from the course with him. And debates with him are like going down the rabbit hole stevenleser Jul 2015 #101
Yep BainsBane Jul 2015 #109
K&R for one of the best. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #96
Kick. GoneFishin Jul 2015 #99
K & R SalviaBlue Jul 2015 #105
I always bookmark your threads, O-Fish arikara Jul 2015 #107
Illegitimi non carborundum Demeter Jul 2015 #110
I will NEVER mock the truth heaven05 Jul 2015 #111
Hanging's too good for them. hifiguy Jul 2015 #112
K&R Paka Jul 2015 #114
Another K&R Keep posting about the BFEE LongTomH Jul 2015 #117
And let us not forget Marvin Bush... Gumboot Jul 2015 #118
Please. YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #125
I don't want any sympathy. Octafish Jul 2015 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #129
I don't blame you. Here is my reaction... stevenleser Jul 2015 #147
When you don't have an argument, use an emoticon. Octafish Jul 2015 #149
. stevenleser Jul 2015 #150
''Unlike Octafish, I do my homework.'' -- stevenleser of DU Octafish Jul 2015 #156
See post #218 above. That will become a standard response to you. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #219
Your words, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #254
I've got your back, and I always will. A small handful of dead-enders can make lots of noise. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #127
Kick!!! haikugal Jul 2015 #128
Anywho, a reminder: YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #133
Of course it's a conspiracy, using position and power to enrich one's cronies. Octafish Jul 2015 #138
I do miss his silver hammer. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2015 #134
Keep yer mighty pen a'flowin, Octafish. seafan Jul 2015 #135
So basically ablamj Jul 2015 #142
LOL! Anything to say about what I actually wrote -- on this thread or anywhere? Octafish Jul 2015 #143
i'm trying to figure ablamj Jul 2015 #144
When you figure it out let me know. I've been down the rabbit hole with him on this for two days now stevenleser Jul 2015 #146
I'm sure you're right ablamj Jul 2015 #160
Justice demands prosecution of traitors, war criminals, mass murderers, war profiteers and thieves. Octafish Jul 2015 #162
yes(see post 160) ablamj Jul 2015 #163
Yes I do. Octafish Jul 2015 #164
But do you personally believe ablamj Jul 2015 #172
apparently serial rapists are easy to ignore- women don't rate as important enough to get justice bettyellen Jul 2015 #176
While that may be your point, bettyellen, that's not what I think or wrote. Octafish Jul 2015 #196
Why don't you ablamj Jul 2015 #264
It also demands justice of rapists. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #245
Exactly- Octafish gets to judge who is criminal- the rest of us should STFU. Unless we agree! bettyellen Jul 2015 #175
Show where I've ever posted someone ''to STFU'' bettyellen. Octafish Jul 2015 #178
you posted about Foley - crimes not found- as guilty but just cannot say it about Cosby, LOL.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #179
All sorts of crimes regarding Foley were found. Octafish Jul 2015 #182
'Florida closes Foley investigation without charges" so by your Cosby standards, also innocent. bettyellen Jul 2015 #185
Not at all. Unlike you, Hastert & Boehner, I find the evidence compelling. Octafish Jul 2015 #195
As is the much testimony against Cosby, his lies and confession of employing drugs. bettyellen Jul 2015 #201
And note he wrote "Unlike you" accusing you of not finding the evidence against Foley compelling stevenleser Jul 2015 #212
Yeah, most of his replies have nothing to do with his dislike of calling Cos a rapist. bettyellen Jul 2015 #213
And he again asked upthread to provide examples of when he has accused other people of stuff stevenleser Jul 2015 #215
Lol, anything to deflect how he is basically a traitor to womankind. Society deserves protection.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #216
So now I'm a ''traitor to womankind''? Nice smear, bettyellen. Guess that's the best you can do... Octafish Jul 2015 #229
Another reply that has nothing to do with defending Cosby, LOL. bettyellen Jul 2015 #247
Sadly it is all too common BainsBane Jul 2015 #232
And we can't get through to him. He uses all these weird defense mechanisms instead of listening. stevenleser Jul 2015 #243
''The fact is that posting on DU is not 'fighting fascism''' -- stevenleser Octafish Jul 2015 #301
Keep it up carla Jul 2015 #145
Your Links and DU Posts are a "DU Treasure"..... KoKo Jul 2015 #159
I though Foley's case had "no criminal finding" so he's no more guilty than your BFF, Cosby.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #165
Florida dropped the case on grounds of ''insufficient evidence'' meaning GOP Congress covered up. Octafish Jul 2015 #181
LOL, and no one covered for Cosby. Sounds like two innocent lambs with conspiracy theories bettyellen Jul 2015 #186
Foley was in charge of protecting 'Missing and Exploited Children' Octafish Jul 2015 #191
No one accused you or "covering it up"? WTF? He wasn't found guilty- so he's not guilty according to your bettyellen Jul 2015 #193
Octafish, I love you. You obviously care enough to dig deep and hard towards AikidoSoul Jul 2015 #167
Too many links, just give us poor bastards some drugs ... seveneyes Jul 2015 #174
So…everything you posted about BFEE is wrong because… Bill Cosby? tularetom Jul 2015 #202
nope, you have that exactly backwards. His hypocrisy on Bill Cosby is somehow OK because he hates stevenleser Jul 2015 #220
Does Roger Ailes let you talk about anything related to the BFEE on tee vee? Octafish Jul 2015 #223
I'm not a Fox employee. So I can say anything I want. And we have proved you wrong dozens of times stevenleser Jul 2015 #225
Would you be if they offered you a job? Cleita Jul 2015 #230
You want me to publicly speculate on a nonexistent job offer? Yeah, that would be a good idea. stevenleser Jul 2015 #233
Why such umbrage? Cleita Jul 2015 #239
See Bainbanes #238 below, she says it better than I could stevenleser Jul 2015 #240
Sorry, the hypocrisy isn't apparent from where I'm standing tularetom Jul 2015 #226
Nope, there are half a dozen of us pointing out the same thing, so its not me. Nice try though. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #227
What I find interesting is exactly that tkmorris Jul 2015 #276
No. NuclearDem Jul 2015 #285
Fox News Contributors MoveIt Jul 2015 #207
There are no Fox News Contributors on DU. At least none that I am aware of. There are guests stevenleser Jul 2015 #214
Guest? Octafish Jul 2015 #221
Yes, guest, just like when I have been a guest on RT and elsewhere stevenleser Jul 2015 #224
By the way, am permalinking and sending this to my journal for reference to your ad hominems stevenleser Jul 2015 #228
What ad hominem from me? That's how Fox identified you. Octafish Jul 2015 #234
Nope, they wouldn't and never have, because I am not an employee. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #235
So those screen grabs are of someone with the same name as you who looks like you 3 times? Octafish Jul 2015 #265
Whose name should they have. What part of this don't you understand? Nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #267
You got at least three different job descriptions on FOX television. Octafish Jul 2015 #280
At least you've now moved the goalposts to where you are not accusing me of being an employee stevenleser Jul 2015 #281
Where did I accuse you of anything? Octafish Jul 2015 #286
If you mean that guy from that thing, yeah. Octafish Jul 2015 #222
Oh and in other words, you are accusing me of something here, but can't accuse Cosby. stevenleser Jul 2015 #251
Thanks for the welcome! MoveIt Jul 2015 #260
Welcome to DU. zappaman Jul 2015 #261
Who do you think MoveIt was, zappaman? Octafish Jul 2015 #263
Post #108 is awaiting your response zappaman Jul 2015 #266
Thanks for the reminder. Octafish Jul 2015 #272
You're very welcome, my old friend. zappaman Jul 2015 #273
I didn't know I had to answer to anyone. I'm that way with authority. Octafish Jul 2015 #278
No one said you had to, Brad. zappaman Jul 2015 #279
My name's not Brad, zappaman. It's Octafish. Octafish Jul 2015 #282
Have a great weekend, dude! zappaman Jul 2015 #283
You never did show where I am wrong, zappaman. Octafish Jul 2015 #287
Lol, right? Jumping right into a conflict with another DUer isn't remotely suspicious stevenleser Jul 2015 #268
You noticed that? Octafish Jul 2015 #262
Like Dennis Kucinich? BainsBane Jul 2015 #231
Yes, Dennis is a contributor, a paid employee of that network. I'm just a guest. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #237
That they know this originated from a discussion involving you BainsBane Jul 2015 #238
No. It's about Justice. You must have ''forgotten.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #244
And I and every other Democrat on this site agrees that Bush is a lying, asshole BainsBane Jul 2015 #248
Where did I ''dissemble''? I don't like being called a liar, BainsBane. Octafish Jul 2015 #255
They don't care about the women, like you said its a game to them about personalities on DU. stevenleser Jul 2015 #246
If you want to see someone treated as the enemy BainsBane Jul 2015 #249
I did a big piece on rape culture in 2013 with Marcotte and I should show you the stats on that show stevenleser Jul 2015 #250
You know you see it with coverage of the Runaways too.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #253
As should Rothschild family conspiracy theorists. NuclearDem Jul 2015 #284
Right you are. See for yourself. Octafish Jul 2015 #294
K R & B Dont call me Shirley Jul 2015 #271

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
5. It's been a long, long run of helping the Have-Mores become the Have-Most.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:47 PM
Jul 2015

Old news to you, AuntPatsy. News to most of the nation: BFEE are multi-generational power players.



Sen. Prescott Bush, father and grandfather to presidents, sharing a moment and a bit o' information in this small world, back in the day with the head of one of the richest families in the world, Baron de Rothschild.



Rothschild and Freshfields founders’ had links to slavery, papers reveal

By Carola Hoyos
Financial Times

Two of the biggest names in the City of London had previously undisclosed links to slavery in the British colonies, documents seen by the Financial Times have revealed.

Nathan Mayer Rothschild, the banking family’s 19th-century patriarch, and James William Freshfield, founder of Freshfields, the top City law firm, benefited financially from slavery, records from the National Archives show, even though both have often been portrayed as opponents of slavery.

Far from being a matter of distant history, slavery remains a highly contentious issue in the US, where Rothschild and Freshfields are both active.

Companies alleged to have links to past slave injustices have come under pressure to make restitution.

JPMorgan, the investment bank, set up a $5m scholarship fund for black students studying in Louisiana after apologising in 2005 for the company’s historic links to slavery.

CONTINUED (with registration, etc) ...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7c0f5014-628c-11de-b1c9-00144feabdc0.html



Some really believe that one group of people is superior to others. That used to be reasons for war, now it's called being a Republican.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
7. I may not always reply
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:51 PM
Jul 2015

but I will always have your back
You do this place a great service and many of us appreciate that very much.

AuntPatsy

(9,904 posts)
14. I tried to warn those around me of these sleezy low grade criminals, I was ridiculed
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:01 PM
Jul 2015

even silenced until I realized that for some the truth is simply not wanted, here in Texas many still ignorantly hold them to low expectations not caring they offer nothing besides being rich and "White" some are having a hard time letting go of decades of old bigotry and racial divides even if it goes against their best interests..

The crazy glaring dilated eyes of some become unrecognizable when you speak ill of their false idols....

I have experienced this phenomenon, I have recently decided it must be a genetic brain deficiency they were obviously born with...

Your right, it's not old news to me,

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
8. Key Word
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:54 PM
Jul 2015

In the United States, the government is supposed to answer to We the People.



Now We the People are suspects of the Government, treated as if we are some kind of Top Secret "Persons of Interest" or federal fugitives in a never-ending nationwide manhunt. Any idea why?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
16. Online Covert Actions
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:02 PM
Jul 2015

Critically, the “targets” for this deceit and reputation-destruction extend far beyond the customary roster of normal spycraft: hostile nations and their leaders, military agencies, and intelligence services. In fact, the discussion of many of these techniques occurs in the context of using them in lieu of “traditional law enforcement” against people suspected (but not charged or convicted) of ordinary crimes or, more broadly still, “hacktivism”, meaning those who use online protest activity for political ends.

The title page of one of these documents reflects the agency’s own awareness that it is “pushing the boundaries” by using “cyber offensive” techniques against people who have nothing to do with terrorism or national security threats, and indeed, centrally involves law enforcement agents who investigate ordinary crimes:



What an interesting web the police state builds to practice tradecraft and deceive or whatever the rich use to get richer and make wars that go on for ever for profits without cease.

Most importantly: Thank you, shraby! Please know I got you covered. It's the only way to get out of these gangster times relatively healthy.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
4. I'm sorry
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 09:42 PM
Jul 2015

I don't understand why you were mocked.

I have never once seen anything you have posted that I would mock.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
29. I defended the right to be innocent until proven guilty.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:38 PM
Jul 2015

For some reason, you don't like that concept.

And for the record, stevenleser, you never did answer whether a journalist should identify a person as a "rapist" without being convicted of that charge in a court of law.

It has to do with libel law.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
98. And in fact one of the things I have noticed on MSNBC is that they are doing exactly that. If they
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jul 2015

do not they can be sued for liable. When I it comes to legality knowing is not enough - proof and a trial is what counts. In the case of Cosby time is the enemy and we may never get the legal part of this .

Nitram

(22,822 posts)
102. Um, if Cosby hsn't been proven guilty, then why...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:56 PM
Jul 2015

...do you insist the members of the BFEE are guilty? I personally believe they are, but they have not yet been found guilty in a court of law, which seems to be your criterion in Cosby's case.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
208. Uh, because I think even the worst of the BFEE also deserve a fair trial.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:56 AM
Jul 2015

From 2005: The OCTOPUS in Dallas: Poppy involved in JFK Assassination

Poppy Bush is one scary fellah. The record, as revealed by FBI documents in the National Archives show:

George Herbert Walker Bush played some role in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The FBI says George H.W. Bush was in Dallas that terrible day.

Old Octafish hasn’t lost his marbles or downloaded something from Karl Rove’s Office of Disinformation. What I write is what the official government record shows.

FBI memos from within MINUTES of the assassination chronicle what “George H.W. Bush, President of Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company” called the FBI to report “hearsay” that someone wanted to kill President Kennedy.

The problem: Bush reported his suspicions just minutes after JFK was dead. If he cared to stop the assassination, Bush would have reported the threat immediately. Why didn’t Bush say something sooner?



Here's a transcript of the text:



TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63

FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL

SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY

At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #



Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?

Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.

Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?



Here's a transcript of the above:



Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #



I do remember that GHWB was head of the CIA when the Church Committee was looking into the CIA assassination programs. He made things all friendly-like and turned what had been a serious hunt for truth under previous DCI Colby into another dog-and-pony show that was big on show and light on facts.

Regarding Dallas: Now I don't know if Poppy was a trigger man, was only there to watch what happened or what just happened to be there. I do know Poppy Bush has never explained these memos. He's never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed.

Seeing how he would go on to become President, as would his dim son, I believe it's vitally important that we learn the Truth.

Why? The United States and the world haven't been the same since November 22, 1963. And not a single major player in the nation's mass media have stepped up and demanded a real investigation. So, it's up to us, We the People.

What's more, Poppy Bush sheltered mass-murdering jet-bombing terrorists like Luis Posada Carriles.

So, based on the public records I voice my suspicions about the BFEE. I haven't written a word about Cosby.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
57. You are trying to smear him for defending justice. He clearly is not defending Mr. Cosby.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:52 AM
Jul 2015

Speaking for myself, I want to see justice in this case but not mob justice. It is counter productive to social justice goals to use seek mob justice.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
62. Smear him? His hypocrisy on Cosby versus pronouncing the BFEE guilty is staggering
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:59 AM
Jul 2015

He is asserting a principle on the Cosby issue that he doesnt ever assert on anything else. Heck he accuses me of a dozen things every time we discuss something. But with the Cosby issue its not OK to accuse Cosby of doing this because he hasn't been convicted?

wtf is that all about?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
166. I thought Foley was never convicted? Isn't he as innocent as a lamb too?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:41 PM
Jul 2015

The texts were merely "questionable" like purchasing Qualudes to "have sex" with people who don't want to have sex with you.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
192. I'll bet if we did searches we would find hundreds of examples when he accused folks of things
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:08 AM
Jul 2015

maybe thousands. He never had a problem with it before until now with Cosby. Now all of a sudden two days ago he asserts a principle of never proclaiming someone guilty who hasnt been convicted, which he then proceeded to go back on with this very OP as if he never stated it.

As I said in virtually every interaction I have with him he accuses me of something either directly or via poorly veiled innuendo.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
205. Then GOOGLE and show, stevenleser.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:19 AM
Jul 2015

I've asked you to show where I'm wrong on this thread, post or any other post I've made on DU.

Seeing how you have yet to produce an example of where I'm wrong, let alone "hundreds of examples when he accused folks of things...maybe thousands," shows DU exactly what you know. It also shows me what you are.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
210. How many more do you need? We have already mentioned Bush, Cheney and the BFEE. Isn't that enough?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:03 PM
Jul 2015

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
217. So, you've got nothing.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:27 PM
Jul 2015

Which is what I thought.

As for Bush, Cheney and the BFEE: They deserve a fair trial. Until then, I suspect them of treason, warmongering, war profiteering, mass murder, theft, and all manner of corruption.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
218. This is the kind of debater you are. Half a dozen to a dozen of us have provided you several
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:28 PM
Jul 2015

examples of exactly what you asked. And you go on as if you have never heard us, all the while hurling crazy red herrings, non sequiturs and strawmen at us.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
236. It's a simple question: ''Show where I am wrong.''
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:03 PM
Jul 2015

I'll apologize and correct my mistake.

It should be easy, seeing how you state: "Half a dozen to a dozen of us" have done so.

Show where.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
91. Oh yes, he is, and he is asserting a standard he never applies elsewhere. It's obvious.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:54 AM
Jul 2015

You aren't seeing it because you dont want to see it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
26. Thank you, marym625. Looking back, I admire the overall work as a most splendid smear.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:30 PM
Jul 2015

I am a former newspaper reporter and I am a student of communication. With me wasting hours defending myself from Tag Team drafting charges of being a supporter of a rapist and rape, I almost missed the really insidious part.

ETA: The almost instant talking point became: If I demand that Bill Cosby remain a suspect only until convicted of rape, I should never criticize the BFEE without any convictions in a court of law. I thought that was pretty darn clever, so spent a long time explaining why those who make the law never run afoul of the law.

In defending a basic tenet of Democracy, the idea that no one is guilty until proven so in a court of law, I missed what has been happening to the nation since the days of Nixon. The Imperial Presidency that is above the law, that one branch of government can take it upon itself to use all the political and military powers the Executive Branch contains, such as secret federal police and intelligence agencies spying on any and all Americans all the way to and including the identification in secrecy and execution without trial those deemed enemies of the State. Most of all, I missed stating that the idea that such secret and illegal action serves a higher power than what the Constitution describes as the true power: The People. And that is the wealthy.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
67. Well said sir. You, and those that speak the truth will always be a target.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:06 AM
Jul 2015

I appreciate your posts and fortitude.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
68. Mocking is a tactic used
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:13 AM
Jul 2015

by those wishing to end discussion when not equipped to do so with decent argument . I am not saying it applies in this case.

Those that speak the truth are often mocked.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
113. this post cannot be
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:34 PM
Jul 2015

mocked and is probably being so mocked because the truth does hurt a lot of the time....

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
58. The Tea Party's Endgame
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:53 AM
Jul 2015

It's like Igor found a new home for Reagan's cue-ball brain.



Joni Ernst Is the Tea Party's Endgame

The Republican Senate candidate in Iowa has been hailed as the return of the tea party. She's really a sign of its triumph.

—By Patrick Caldwell
Mother Jones | Thu Oct. 30, 2014 6:00 AM EDT

EXCERPT...

Ernst built a career in the armed forces. She deployed to Kuwait in 2003 at the start of the second Iraq War, and serves as a lieutenant colonel in the Iowa Army National Guard to this day, leading the largest battalion in the state. In 2004, she ran for county auditor in her home county. She won, and was reelected in 2008. Then, in 2010, Branstad tapped Kim Reynolds, the state senator in Ernst's district, as his lieutenant governor. Reynolds and local Republicans recruited Ernst to run for Reynolds' seat, which she won with 67.4 percent of the vote.

Ernst's biography—and her record of electoral success—helped rally establishment Republicans to her cause, says Steve Roberts, a former chairman of the state party.

When Sen. Tom Harkin, the five-term Democratic incumbent, announced his retirement in 2013, the mainline GOP crowd knew Ernst was their woman. "She was a different kind of candidate, which was the only way we were going to maybe have a chance to beat Braley," Roberts says.

Soon after Harkin announced he would retire, Roberts and a gaggle of other establishment GOPers encouraged Ernst to run for the soon-to-be-open seat. That group included David Oman—a former chief of staff to Branstad who ran unsuccessfully for governor in 1998 and was co-chair of Mitt Romney's Iowa campaign—and David Kochel, Romney's lead political strategist in the state. In July 2013, Ernst announced she would run for Harkin's seat. Reynolds, the lieutenant governor, endorsed Ernst a few months later, and Kochel and Oman joined Ernst's campaign. Romney, Kochel's former boss, endorsed Ernst this March. As the state's top Republican, Branstad didn't endorse a candidate in the primary, but his preference was no secret. "Pretty much everybody in the state knew that Ernst was Branstad's pick, even if he wasn't going to say so publicly," says Tim Hagle, a political scientist at the University of Iowa.

FOUR OTHER REPUBLICANS RAN for the GOP nomination to replace Harkin. Like Ernst, they lacked statewide name recognition. But with the help of her friends in party leadership and a well-timed viral ad in which she promised to apply her pig-castrating skills to the federal budget, Ernst sailed to an easy victory in the June 3 primary. She finished with 56 percent of the vote—an outright majority that ensured she would not have to win over delegates at a potentially unpredictable nominating convention.

Since June, Ernst has tried to tack to the center, and Democrats have pointed to her comments during the primary to paint her as extreme. "That kind of stuff can come back to haunt you," Hagle says. But Ernst has brushed off her past positions, often by simply denying she ever held them.

CONTINUED...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/10/joni-ernst-iowa-senate-bruce-braley

Thank you for the kind words, IADEMO2004! Thank you also for the kind reminder about kindly Sen. Breadbags. She will keep the High Fructose Corn Syrup running on time.

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
20. Jury results..........
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:16 PM
Jul 2015

On Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:01 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Don't sweat it Octa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6954535

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Jab against Stevenlesser. This OP came about because Octafish insisted it wasn't okay to say Bill Cosby was a rapist absent a conviction, and Steve pointed out he doesn't give the benefit of the doubt to Bush, Cheney, Kennedy assassins, etc... So now what whatchamacallit is doing is claiming steven lesser is "Leser." note the capital L.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:15 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Q:is this junior high
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Marty McGraw

(1,024 posts)
36. This session has been called to resolve a troubling matter.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:06 PM
Jul 2015

James T. Kirk, step forward.

Cadet Kirk, evidence has been submitted to this council,

suggesting that you violated the ethical code of conduct

pursuing to regulation 17.43 of the Starfleet code.

Is there anything you care to say before we begin, sir?

Yes. I believe I have the right to face my accuser directly?.....

I admire everything I see posted by you O-Fish!

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
54. Thanks to the alerter for the explanation and the indication of a big problem
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:47 AM
Jul 2015

we face and not in DU. Social Justice is very important, but using it for self-righteous bullying is counter productive. This is a general problem and not aimed at anyone specific.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
153. At this point
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:05 PM
Jul 2015

There are a whole hell of a lot of self-righteous bullies running around this topic. At this point, why is it that difficult for both sides to accept the paradoxical dual truths and say, "In America, criminally-speaking, a person is innocent until proven guilty. However, I am not on a jury and have heard 45+ women accuse Bill Cosby, as well as his own admission. I wouldn't want him sent to prison without a trial, but I think it's more probable than not that he's a rapist. Therefore, I, (state your name), would like to apologize to (state the other person's name). We both have valid points and I hope that we can agree on many other things in the future. Also, fuck Donald Trump and George Bush."

This is has all become totally childish.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
65. Democracy needs treat all the same under the law. What group gets ahead?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:04 AM
Jul 2015


From the It's a Living Department:



Blackwater Lobbyist Will Manage the House Intelligence Committee

Jeff Shockey, a lobbyist for defense contractors and Academi. He will soon lead the day to day operations of the House Intelligence Committee.

BY LEE FANG
Republic Report, Dec. 18, 2014

After lobbyist-run SuperPACs and big money efforts dominated the last election, legislators are now appointing lobbyists to literally manage the day-to-day affairs of Congress. For the House Intelligence Committee, which oversees government intelligence operations and agencies, the changing of the guard means a lobbyist for Academi, the defense contractor formerly known as Blackwater, is now in charge.

Congressman Devin Nunes (R-CA), the incoming chairman of the Intelligence Committee when the House reconvenes in January, announced that Jeff Shockey will be the new Staff Director of the committee. As a paid representative of Academi, Shockey and his firm have earned $80,000 this year peddling influence on behalf of Academi.

In previous years, the House Intelligence Committee has investigated Blackwater over secret contracts with the Central Intelligence Agency. Now, the shoe is on the other foot. As Staff Director, the highest position on a committee for a staff member, Shockey will oversee the agencies that do business with his former employer.

Shockey also represents a number of other companies with business before defense agencies: General Dynamics, Koch Industries, Northrop Grumman, United Launch Alliance, Innovative Defense Technologies and Boeing.

SNIP...

Other committees are also hiring lobbyists. Congessman Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), Darrell Issa’s (R-CA) replacement as chair of the Oversight Committee, just hired Podesta Group lobbyist Sean McLaughlin as his new Staff Director. McLaughlin’s client list includes the Business Roundtable, a trade association for corporate CEOs of large firms. Sen. Rob Portman (R-OH) also hired a new chief of staff, Mark Isakowitz, who represents BP.

SOURCE: http://www.republicreport.org/2014/blackwater-lobbyist-will-manage-the-house-intelligence-committee/

Like journalists, some lobbyists are more equal than others.


Octafish

(55,745 posts)
69. The CIA Role in the Savings & Loan Crisis
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:15 AM
Jul 2015

Thank you, nadinbrzezinski! As a former journalist, I think you, a current journalist, and anyone who appreciates democracy, justice, truth, might enjoy this:



THE CIA ROLE IN THE SAVINGS AND LOAN CRISIS

Project Censored

It is now estimated that some 500 billion to 1.4 trillion taxpayer dollars will be needed to bail out the savings and loan crisis. One very obvious question, which has not been asked by the major news media, is what happened to so much money?

At least one investigative journalist, Pete Brewton, of the Houston Post, believes he has the answer. On February 4, 1990, Brewton wrote "During an eight-month investigation into the role of fraud in the nation's savings and loan crisis, The Post has found evidence suggesting a possible link between the Central Intelligence Agency and organized crime in the failure of at least 22 thrifts, including 16 in Texas."

It was the first in a series of S&L articles by Brewton that found links between S&L's, organized crime figures, and CIA operatives, including some involved in gun running, drug smuggling, money laundering and covert aid to Nicaraguan contras. If S&L funds went to the contras or other covert operations it would help explain where some of the money went.

In his March 11, 1990, article, Brewton even suggested links between President Bush's son Neil and the CIA/organized crime figures: "A failed Colorado savings and loan whose board of directors included a son of President Bush was part of an intricate web of federally insured financial institutions that had business links to organized crime figures and CIA operatives, The Houston Post has learned."

Despite the blockbuster nature of Brewton's exposes, the major news media have not been quick to follow-up. As Robert Sherrill points out in his extraordinary analysis of the S&L crisis in an unusual single subject issue of The Nation (11/19/90), "Brewton's stories have not exactly stirred the national press to action."

The strange silence on the part of the press led Steve Weinberg, former executive director of Investigative Reporters & Editors, to investigate the accuracy of Brewton's charges. Weinberg raises two key questions: if Brewton's information is wrong, what should other journalists be doing to set the record straight, and if he is right, why have most news organizations failed to assign their own reporters to the scandal?

SNIP...

COMMENTS: Pete Brewton, the investigative journalist, whose series of articles in The Houston Post were the first to systematically expose the CIA's role in the S&L scandal, said that his articles received no exposure on network TV or in major daily newspapers and only passing mention in the newsweeklies. He added that wider exposure of this story would let the public know that "operatives of an agency of the executive branch of the government, the CIA, were involved in owning and obtaining loans from savings and loans that later failed." Robert Sherrill, whose article appeared in The Nation, said it was not so much a matter of censorship but only insufficient and delayed exposure, but added "Generally speaking, the press has done a very poor job of covering the savings and loan (and bank) scandal for the past three years, not just in 1990. As early as 1988, there was plenty of evidence of the emerging mess, but the press allowed the cand-idates to dodge the subject completely. The mass media's failure in 1989 and 1990 was that it reported the scandal in dribs and drabs, and rarely tried to put it all together so that the public could understand it in total, could understand the causes and could firmly fix the blame." Sherrill charged that network TV and the newsweeklies have been particularly reluctant to take on the subject while the New York Times abused the public by relegating most of its S&L coverage to the financial pages. Among newspapers he had seen, Sherrill felt the Washington Post had provided the best coverage of the issue. Steve Weinberg, former executive director of Investigative Reporters & Editors examined Brewton's evidence in-depth and said he "came down squarely on the fence."

ONLINE: http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/ciabanks.htm

ORIGINAL SOURCE LINK NOW BEAT: http://www.ringnebula.com/project-censored/1976-1992/1990/1990-story3.htm



Solidarity, Hermana.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
116. The whole S&L crisis and Neil Bush's role in it has been allowed to drop into the memory hole!
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:22 PM
Jul 2015

Thanks for reminding us for still another reason why another Bush should never be allowed near the levers of power!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
139. JEB's own role in the S&L thing was overshadowed, if possible, by SILVERADO Neil.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:00 PM
Jul 2015

Jeb Bush defaulted on a $4.56 million loan from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida. After federal regulators closed the S&L, the office building that Jeb used the $4.56 million to finance was reappraised by the regulators at $500,000, which Bush and his partners paid. The taxpayers had to pay back the remaining 4 million plus dollars.

SOURCE w/links n details: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/bush_family_and_the_s.htm

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
71. The CIA: Banking on Intelligence
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:24 AM
Jul 2015

In some societies, a small group of well qualified men and women rise to leadership through their hard work and concern for the collected many. This isn't about them.



The CIA: Banking on Intelligence

Covert Action Information Bulletin No.46, Fall 1993
Anthony L. Kimery

The CIA has collected, and the intelligence community has collected, economic intelligence of one kind or another since its inception. - Director of Central Intelligence, R. James Woolsey

The CIA has never been above breaking the law as it battles communists, nationalists, terrorists, or the latest "national security threat": foreign-directed economic and financial subterfuge. This growing economic focus comes at the bidding of many voices in the CIA, Pentagon, and corporate community who believe the U.S.'s primary intelligence mission should be to help industry compete in the global marketplace. There has been little public discussion, however, over just when corporate competition becomes a sufficient threat to the national security to unleash the corruptible talents of the intelligence community into the world of international finance.

"New" Intelligence Requirements: Old Practices

That line between "national security" and private financial interests has long been mutable and subject to the day-to-day needs of the CIA. For decades, the U.S. has used currency manipulations, embargoes, and other forms of economic pressure to undermine its foes. When the 1945 Bretton Woods agreement established the U.S. dollar as the international currency of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, the U.S. secured enormous international financial leverage. It can direct intense fiscal pressure against foreign financial institutions, and even an entire national economy, by activating the global power of the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve (along with the international financial institutions it controls). Witness the long-standing embargo against Cuba, the economic sabotage of Nicaragua in the 1980s, the illegal withholding of Panama's canal revenues between 1987 and 1990, and the current international sanctions against Iraq. Economic motives have always driven U.S. covert operations. And bending banking regulations to the benefit of U.S. and foreign elites has been standard practice. Thus, it should be no surprise that, despite questionable legality, both the National Security Agency (NSA) and the CIA already engage in extensive economic intelligence activities wherever U.S. national security interests are perceived to be at risk.

The practice of using existing U.S. intelligence agencies to gather economic and financial data through traditional spy methods was given a boost by the Reagan administration. Incoming CIA Director William Casey's national security credentials were matched by his business background. Casey had been chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Undersecretary of State for economic affairs, and Import-Export Bank President. He ordered the Agency's once modest National Collection Division (NCD) to recruit major corporate executives abroad to gather proprietary information on foreign businesses and the trade and economic policies of foreign governments. This move made the NCD the largest information gathering program within the Agency's operations directorate. By 1984, more than 150 corporations were providing cover for CIA people overseas.

Also on Casey's order, from 1982 through 1987, career CIA man Douglas P. Mulholland served at the Treasury Department as the chief liaison to the Agency. The person in this position typically ensures that, should some low-level regulator stumble across banking law violations, CIA operations involving banks and other federally regulated financial institutions are not compromised. No operations, it seems, were compromised on Mulholland's watch. He retired from the CIA in 1987 to become a researcher for George Bush's presidential campaign, and later headed the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research.

Treasury Joins the Inner Circle

While the Reagan and Bush administrations were able to maintain the CIA's budget in the name of anticommunism, the post-Cold War CIA has had to be more diverse. It has switched its emphasis to counterterrorism and economic intelligence.

Bill Clinton wasted no time in elevating the "new" economic agenda to the highest level. For the first time, a treasury secretary, Lloyd Bentsen, became a member of the CIA's daily White House briefing. Previously, the briefing was reserved only for the president, the vice president, the national security adviser, and the secretaries of state and defense. This move formalized a trend put in motion by Reagan and Bush, who had already brought the Department of the Treasury's intelligence unit and the CIA closer together.

CONTINUED...

BUSTED CATCH-22 of a LINK: http://covertaction.org//content/view/142/75 /



That was written back in 1993, when there were still more than six companies producing 99-percent of the information Americans "consume." While every word is true, almost none of it has made its way into Corporate McPravda. And some days even I will wonder how's that trickle down working out for us?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
86. Pete Brewton: The Mafia, CIA & George Bush
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:38 AM
Jul 2015

This reporter did a bang-up job on the BFEE during the S&L crisis. His work was largely ignored by Corporate Owned Media. I wonder why?

Pete Brewton wrote “The Mafia, CIA & George Bush,” is a must-own for those interested in the workings of the Bush Organized Crime Family. The former Houston Post reporter documents, literally, the way the Mafia, the CIA and those connected and related to George Poppy Bush -- and to the late Lloyd Bentsen -- looted more than 1,000 of the nation’s Savings and Loans institutions — and pretty much got away with it, scot-free.





No many people know this story, including people who call themselves "journalist." Maybe that's how they get to go on tee vee.

CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)
15. K & huge fucking R
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:01 PM
Jul 2015

You are one of the best things on DU Octafish. Please don't ever stop.

The crap you endure is an unfortunate side effect of shining light on uncomfortable truths. Let me assure you, what you do here is VERY much appreciated.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
100. NSA docs contradict Bush Jr 9/11 claims
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:18 PM
Jul 2015

Something that didn't register on Corporate Owned News, for some reason.





New NSA docs contradict 9/11 claims

“I don’t think the Bush administration would want to see these released," an expert tells Salon

By Jordan Michael Smith
Salon.com
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 04:24 PM EDT

Over 120 CIA documents concerning 9/11, Osama bin Laden and counterterrorism were published today for the first time, having been newly declassified and released to the National Security Archive. The documents were released after the NSA pored through the footnotes of the 9/11 Commission and sent Freedom of Information Act requests.

The material contains much new information about the hunt before and after 9/11 for bin Laden, the development of the drone campaign in AfPak, and al-Qaida’s relationship with America’s ally, Pakistan. Perhaps most damning are the documents showing that the CIA had bin Laden in its cross hairs a full year before 9/11 — but didn’t get the funding from the Bush administration White House to take him out or even continue monitoring him. The CIA materials directly contradict the many claims of Bush officials that it was aggressively pursuing al-Qaida prior to 9/11, and that nobody could have predicted the attacks. “I don’t think the Bush administration would want to see these released, because they paint a picture of the CIA knowing something would happen before 9/11, but they didn’t get the institutional support they needed,” says Barbara Elias-Sanborn, the NSA fellow who edited the materials.

SNIP...

Former National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice has taken credit for the drone program that the Bush administration ignored. “Things like working to get an armed Predator that actually turned out to be extraordinarily important, working to get a strategy that would allow us to get better cooperation from Pakistan and from the Central Asians,” she said in 2006. “We were not left a comprehensive strategy to fight al-Qaida.” Rice claimed that the Bush administration continued the Clinton administration’s counterterrorism policies, a claim the documents disprove. “If the administration wanted to get it done, I’m sure they could have gotten it done,” says Elias-Sanborn.

Many of the documents publicize for the first time what was first made clear in the 9/11 Commission: The White House received a truly remarkable amount of warnings that al-Qaida was trying to attack the United States. From June to September 2001, a full seven CIA Senior Intelligence Briefs detailed that attacks were imminent, an incredible amount of information from one intelligence agency. One from June called “Bin-Ladin and Associates Making Near-Term Threats” writes that “[redacted] expects Usama Bin Laden to launch multiple attacks over the coming days.” The famous August brief called “Bin Ladin Determined to Strike the US” is included. “Al-Qai’da members, including some US citizens, have resided in or travelled to the US for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure here,” it says. During the entire month of August, President Bush was on vacation at his ranch in Texas — which tied with one of Richard Nixon’s as the longest vacation ever taken by a president. CIA Director George Tenet has said he didn’t speak to Bush once that month, describing the president as being “on leave.” Bush did not hold a Principals’ meeting on terrorism until September 4, 2001, having downgraded the meetings to a deputies’ meeting, which then-counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke has repeatedly said slowed down anti-Bin Laden efforts “enormously, by months.”

CONTINUED w LINKS...

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/19/new_nsa_docs_reveal_911_truths/



PS: Thank you for the kind words, CrawlingChaos! Your Friendship means the world!

Response to Octafish (Reply #100)

CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)
140. Excellent. Thank you Octafish
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:17 PM
Jul 2015

You will always have my friendship, and I'll never stop coming to DU as long as you're here.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
17. I think the point was that serial rapists are also disdainful
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:02 PM
Jul 2015

and not more worthy of the benefit of the doubt than former presidents, even if those rapists are rich and famous.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
43. Yeah, pretty simple.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:19 AM
Jul 2015

I guess that's why it needed a several hundred word rebuttal with dazzle camouflage.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
56. And he didn't directly address the issue that this OP is really about. The OP is manipulation
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:52 AM
Jul 2015

"Hey, some folks didnt like 'something I said', but I am good because I hate Bush, don't you all still love me?"

Where the 'something I said' was discounting the rape reports of 48+ women and the admission by the rapist that he procured drugs to subdue the women in deference to some principle OP asserts he has of "not accusing people of things unless they are convicted" that he does not exhibit in anything else he talks about.

For reference so that folks who haven't followed that other discussion can see what this post by OP is really about, see OPs comments at these links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026948301

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026951237

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
66. Yup...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:04 AM
Jul 2015
"Hey, some folks didnt like 'something I said', but I am good because I hate Bush, don't you all still love me?"


Nailed it.

Sid

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
77. I've asked you over the years to show where I'm wrong about the BFEE.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:19 AM
Jul 2015

You never have.

So, instead of the emoticon, show where I'm wrong. I'll apologize and correct my mistake.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
121. What was the topic of the thread you were in where it was raised?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:32 PM
Jul 2015

And why did you argue Cosby shouldn't be called a rapist absent a criminal conviction?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
124. ''Whoopi is still saying Cosby innocent until proven guilty''
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:41 PM
Jul 2015

To which I replied:

22. Right. Who needs a trial and conviction? That's so Old School.

New School means we know who's guilty without a trial because an expert tells us so.

PS: Going from the news reports, Cosby looks guilty to me -- but he hasn't been convicted in court. Until that happens, he's innocent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026948301#post22


So. Where am I wrong?

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
132. You are correct that he LEGALLLY has not been found guilty
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:55 PM
Jul 2015

But nor have the Bushes. The question is why you elevate a serial rapist above former presidents in terms of giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I gave my views about that here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6957092

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
151. You chose to write an OP
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:46 PM
Jul 2015

making a big deal of deflecting from the subject and pretending you had been attacked for posting about the BFEE.

Care to elaborate on what you found interesting about my post?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
170. You claim Foley is guilty- but that statute of limitations ran out too. Same shit, different story
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:47 PM
Jul 2015

you tell. Interesting.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
120. And with his response to you, down you go down the rabbit hole. He's even telling you what you
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:31 PM
Jul 2015

are criticizing him about. Oh and prove him wrong, his opinion about what you are criticizing him about.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
73. I am genuinely puzzled by the double standard.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:41 AM
Jul 2015

The 48 women will probably never get any justice, because of laws made by the wealthy. I don't know why the different consideration in this case.

I totally agree that the Bush family are criminal, and I don't know why it is being represented that someone said he shouldn't post about that.

I just thought consideration of a preponderance of evidence would apply to other public figures that will never face a criminal trial.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
75. This is what I have come to expect from discussions with that person
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:16 AM
Jul 2015

point out the double standard saying "You are comfortable calling the BFEE criminals and they havent been convicted, why cant you do that with Cosby" and then I get thrown back at me from him "Why are you defending the BFEE"

And then he wonders why I stop discussing things with him.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
81. OMG, and he did it to Sid just above. Exactly the kind of crap I said he does.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:23 AM
Jul 2015

Make the comparison between his positions on Cosby and the BFEE and he accuses you of supporting the BFEE.

Literally three minutes after I said that is the kind of stuff he pulls.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
82. So now I can't reply on my own thread?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:29 AM
Jul 2015

What can I write that meets with your approval, besides that tee vee pundits can call Bill Cosby a rapist?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
83. Yes, of course that's what my comment means. Strawman much? Actually calling that a strawman is
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:30 AM
Jul 2015

giving it too much credit. A strawman involves taking some piece of what the person actually said and twisting it.

There is nothing in what I said that resembles what you wrote.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
88. Right. Like 'taking some piece of what the person actually said and twisting it' isn't what you did.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:46 AM
Jul 2015

Like writing I said ''48+ women likely liars''?

Straw man.

This is the fallacy of refuting a caricatured or extreme version of somebody's argument, rather than the actual argument they've made. Often this fallacy involves putting words into somebody's mouth by saying they've made arguments they haven't actually made, in which case the straw man argument is a veiled version of argumentum ad logicam. One example of a straw man argument would be to say, "Mr. Jones thinks that capitalism is good because everybody earns whatever wealth they have, but this is clearly false because many people just inherit their fortunes," when in fact Mr. Jones had not made the "earnings" argument and had instead argued, say, that capitalism gives most people an incentive to work and save. The fact that some arguments made for a policy are wrong does not imply that the policy itself is wrong.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
92. 'Make the comparison between his positions on Cosby and the BFEE and he accuses you of supporting...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:57 AM
Jul 2015

...the BFEE."

Where did I accuse siddithers of DU or anyone who disagrees with me of "supporting the BFEE"?

I'd expect at least a link to show that. And no, I won't take your word for it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
97. Because that was the subject of the post?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:08 PM
Jul 2015

Perhaps I am wrong about you, stevenleser. Do you like to read?

For other DUers, where stevenleser's link goes:



Stick with the BFEE, stevenleser. You say they're innocent until proven guilty.

Show where I've accused any Bush or BFEE crony -- or anyone, for that matter -- of anything that I have not backed up by fact.

Show where I've intentionally lied or presented information that was not true on DU.

Go through my Journal on DU3 or DU2.

Show, stevenleser.



So. Where, there, or anywhere, did I say you support the BFEE?

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
108. Explain to me why you think a serial rapist with 48 complaints
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:09 PM
Jul 2015

and court evidence in which he admitted to giving Quaaludes to women to have "sex" with them is more worthy of the benefit of the doubt that the Bush family. That is what I would like to know. No one in that thread disputed your posts about Bush. They simply observed a contradiction that you expressed concern about declaring a rapist guilty absent a criminal conviction and your position on political figures you accuse of criminal activity.

Rape is central to equal rights. 25 percent of women are raped in their life times. It's a form of power far broader reaching than the BFEE. I am continually disturbed at how being accused of rape seems to elevate a person's standing in some quarters. I see special treatment afforded rapists as opposition to the rights of women and human equality. Rape is a civil rights issue, and DOJ has begun treating it as such on college campuses by extending Title IX protection to female students.

I see your evasion and efforts to deflect from that subject as an insult to women like me. Rape is part of an oppressive apparatus of power that strips women of their human rights. To treat rapists as somehow better or more deserving of the benefit of the doubt is, IMO, is part of the subjugation of women. Politics is not just about great and evil men. It is about the daily lives of ordinary people who suffer due to exploitation and injustice.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
275. I've shown you. Bainsbane has shown you, BettyEllen has shown you
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:13 PM
Jul 2015

We're tired of showing you the same thing over and over again only for you to pretend you didn't see it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
78. Repeating the same strawman over and over doesn't make it correct, stevenleser.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:20 AM
Jul 2015

You wrote:

"Hey, some folks didnt like 'something I said', but I am good because I hate Bush, don't you all still love me?"


I didn't.
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
79. This OP and the links I provided where folks can read the other comments is all the evidence I need.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:22 AM
Jul 2015

I'm happy to let folks read for themselves and judge.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
148. No. The Point Is JUSTICE.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:37 PM
Jul 2015

Members of the political Bush dynasty have been there at its corruption for decades, serving the privatization of public wealth and power. That's the point I'm making. Here's a bit of what I write about that, on this thread, and a lot of other threads on DU:



Just these two were at momentous events for their generations, Senator Prescott Sheldon Bush, famous for doing business with NAZI Germany before and, for a while at least, during World War II , and son, George Herbert Walker Bush, who helped lie America into war on Panama and then Iraq as president.



Poppy worked with Nixon, odd jobs like running the RNC, raising money for the Watergate burglars, and going to head the first U.S. legation in China. Nixon, you might remember, committed treason to gain the Oval Office, then extended the war in Vietnam for five years and 22,000 American and uncounted Vietnamese lives. Poppy was one of the Republican leaders who helped show Dick the door, interesting when considering Poppy told the FBI he was there in Dallas on the day President Kennedy died.



Now Poppy Bush, Nixon, Pruneface Reagan, and Baby Doc Bush are pretty much responsible for the ultra-rightwing conservative majorities on the Supreme Court since 1969, as well. So please, this post and any other one you see me post on, BainsBane, IS ABOUT JUSTICE.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
152. Justice indeed
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:00 PM
Jul 2015

How about justice for the 1 billion women in the world who have been raped? How about justice that would bring more than 4 percent of rapists to trial and prison for more than 1 percent? How about justice for women subject to violence, sexual and domestic, whose lives are trivialized in favor of wealthy comedians, football players, or run of the mill assholes who commit rape? Justice indeed. Yet you chose to insist on singling out for protection from the mere descriptor of rapist a man who testified in court to drugging women to get them to have sex with him, who has been subject to 48 separate allegations of rape. Bush will be long dead, and rapists will still proliferate; patriarchy will continue to ensure that women are subjected to violence, live under daily oppression because too many treat rapists as a protected class, valued more than their victims and subject to special dispensation not afforded to other accused criminals, whether the George Bushs of the world or the George Zimmermans. What is it about raping women that makes men special, that makes them warrant defense of their power over their victims and their impunity, even from public commentary? What is it about the women of the world that makes us worth so much less that violent crime against us is something for to detract from? What are great men--the Assanges, Cosbys, and Bushes--worthy of so much more concern that the one billion rape victims?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
154. I didn't know I had to write what you wanted me to write.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:05 PM
Jul 2015

That doesn't mean I don't care about rape, does it?

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
155. I asked you questions, which you consistently refuse to answer
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:10 PM
Jul 2015

You chose to insist Cosby should not be called a rapist because he had not been convicted in a court of law. The Bushes haven't been convicted either. Zimmerman was declared not guilty. Yet it is Cosby who must not be maligned. Why is that?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
157. Not really, when you look at what I wrote and what you asked.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:13 PM
Jul 2015

You want to debate something I did not say, but you imply I did. That's not what a person interested in discussion does.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
158. Interested in discussion?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:22 PM
Jul 2015

All you have done is deflect. This entire OP was to deflect by falsely claiming you had been maligned about posts on Bush. What's to discuss? The family are assholes, war criminals. I have no argument with you there. What makes you think there is some sort of hard sell on that point on a Democratic discussion board? Clearly you are not willing to engage in the discussion you started in the other thread, and that you continued in this thread by reposting part of it. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6957845 Several people have pointed out a clear contradiction in your statements about presumption of innocence for Cosby versus others like the Bushs, whom you have no trouble condemning without a trial. You refuse to reflect on that and instead deflect. You are the one who has shown an absolute refusal to discuss the issue, seemingly because you display a contradiction you aren't willing to explain.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
95. How VP Poppy Bush of CIA got real big when Pruneface Raygun was ''Head Honcho''
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:05 PM
Jul 2015
All is Right in the world: Detroit, 1980 GOP Hatefest



After the election, the relationship really changed:



George Bush Takes Charge

The Uses of "Counter-Terrorism"

By Christopher Simpson
Covert Action Quarterly 58

A paper trail of declassified documents from the Reagan‑Bush era yields valuable information on how counter‑terrorism provided a powerful mechanism for solidifying Bush's power base and launching a broad range of national security initiatives.

During the Reagan years, George Bush used "crisis management" and "counter‑terrorism" as vehicles for running key parts of the clandestine side of the US government.

Bush proved especially adept at plausible denial. Some measure of his skill in avoiding responsibility can be taken from the fact that even after the Iran‑Contra affair blew the Reagan administration apart, Bush went on to become the "foreign policy president," while CIA Director William Casey, by then conveniently dead, took most of the blame for a number of covert foreign policy debacles that Bush had set in motion.

The trail of National Security Decision Directives (NSDDS) left by the Reagan administration begins to tell the story. True, much remains classified, and still more was never committed to paper in the first place. Even so, the main picture is clear: As vice president, George Bush was at the center of secret wars, political murders, and America's convoluted oil politics in the Middle East.

SNIP...

Reagan and the NSC also used NSDDs to settle conflicts among security agencies over bureaucratic turf and lines of command. It is through that prism that we see the first glimmers of Vice President Bush's role in clandestine operations during the 1980s.

CONTINUED...



More details from the good professor:



EXCERPT...

NSDD 159. MANAGEMENT OF U.S. COVERT OPERATIONS, (TOP SECRET/VEIL‑SENSITIVE), JAN. 18,1985

The Reagan administration's commitment to significantly expand covert operations had been clear since before the 1980 election. How such operations were actually to be managed from day to day, however, was considerably less certain. The management problem became particularly knotty owing to legal requirements to notify congressional intelligence oversight committees of covert operations, on the one hand, and the tacitly accepted presidential mandate to deceive those same committees concerning sensitive operations such as the Contra war in Nicaragua, on the other.

The solution attempted in NSDD 159 was to establish a small coordinating committee headed by Vice President George Bush through which all information concerning US covert operations was to be funneled. The order also established a category of top secret information known as Veil, to be used exclusively for managing records pertaining to covert operations.

[font color="red"]The system was designed to keep circulation of written records to an absolute minimum while at the same time ensuring that the vice president retained the ability to coordinate US covert operations with the administration's overt diplomacy and propaganda.

Only eight copies of NSDD 159 were created. The existence of the vice president's committee was itself highly classified.
[/font color] The directive became public as a result of the criminal prosecutions of Oliver North, John Poindexter, and others involved in the Iran‑Contra affair, hence the designation "Exhibit A" running up the left side of the document.

CONTINUED...

CovertAction Quarterly no 58 Fall 1996 pp31-40.



This all used to be online, easily found via the GOOGLE. It's gone now, for some strange reason.

NBachers

(17,120 posts)
19. You're one of the most right-on DU'ers of all. I treasure your posts, and the knowlege behind them.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:05 PM
Jul 2015

Some of the people here even chase me away from time to time. I'll always come back, and I'll always have my eye out for you.

The King's Archers and their ilk have invaded Sherwood Forest. Churls, knaves, and oafs abound.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
115. One Morn' in Sherwood Forest...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jul 2015


Know your BFEE: Phil Gramm, the Meyer Lansky of the War Party, Set-Up the Biggest Bank Heist Ever.

The Sting

In the best rip-off, the mark never knows that he or she was set up for fleecing.
In the case of the great financial meltdown of 2008, the victim is the U.S. taxpayer.
Going by the lack of analysis in Corporate McPravda, We the People are in for a royal fleecing.



Don’t just take my word about the current situation between giant criminality and the politically connected.

[font color="green"][font size="5"]You see, there is evidence of conspiracy. An honest FBI agent warned us in 2004 about the coming financial meltdown and the powers-that-be stiffed him, too.[/font size][/font color]

The story’s below. And it’s not fiction. It is true to life.



The Set-Up

You don’t have to be a fan of Paul Newman or Robert Redford to smell a BFEE rat. The oily critter’s name is Gramm. Phil Gramm. He helped Ronald Reagan push through his trickle-down fiscal policy and later helped de-regulate the nation's once-healthy Saving & Loan industry. We all know how well that worked out: Know your BFEE: They Looted Your Nation’s S&Ls for Power and Profit.

In 1999, then-super conservative Texas U.S. Senator Gramm helped pass the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act. This law allowed banks to act like investment houses. Using federally-guaranteed savings accounts, banks now could make risky commercial and real-estate loans.

The law should’ve been called the Gramm-Lansky Act. To those who gave a damn, it was obviously a potential disaster. During the bill’s debate, the specter of a “taxpayer bail-out” was raised by Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, warning about what had happened to the deregulated S&Ls.

Gramm wasn’t alone on the deregulation bandwagon. The law passed, IIRC, like 89-9. More than a few of my own Democratic faves went along with this deregulation, “get-government-off-the-back-of-business” law.

Today we have their love child, MOAB—for the Mother Of All Bailouts.


The Mark

In a sting, someone has to supply the money to be ripped off. Crooks call that person the mark or target or mope. In the present case, that’s the U.S. taxpayer.

Today’s financial crisis seems like a re-run of what happened to the Savings & Loans industry in the late 1980s. Well it is a lot like what happened to the S&Ls. Then, as now, it’s the U.S. taxpayer who gets to pick up the tab for someone else’s party.

Don’t worry, U.S. taxpayer. You’re getting something (among several things) for your $700 billion. You’re getting all the bad mortgage-based paper on almost all of Wall Street. I’d rather have penny stocks, because if there ever was something of negative value it’s the complicated notes and derivatives based on this mortgage debt.



When it comes to Bush economic policy, left holding the bag are We the People, er, Mopes. Don’t worry, it can’t get worse. As St. Ronnie would say, “Well. Yes.” You see, what the bag U.S. taxpayers hold is less than empty. It’s filled with bad debt.


The Mastermind

Chief economist amongst these merry band of thieves and traitors was one Phil Gramm (once a conservative Democrat and then an ultraconservative Republican-Taxus). An economist by training and reputation, Gramm was one of the guiding lights of Reaganomics, the cut taxes, domestic spending, and regulations while raising defense-spending to new heights. In sum, it was a fiscal policy to enrich friends – especially the kind connected to the BFEE.




Foreclosure Phil

Years before Phil Gramm was a McCain campaign adviser and a lobbyist for a Swiss bank at the center of the housing credit crisis, he pulled a sly maneuver in the Senate that helped create today's subprime meltdown.


David Corn
MotherJones.com
May 28, 2008

Who's to blame for the biggest financial catastrophe of our time? There are plenty of culprits, but one candidate for lead perp is former Sen. Phil Gramm. Eight years ago, as part of a decades-long anti-regulatory crusade, Gramm pulled a sly legislative maneuver that greased the way to the multibillion-dollar subprime meltdown. Yet has Gramm been banished from the corridors of power? Reviled as the villain who bankrupted Middle America? Hardly. Now a well-paid executive at a Swiss bank, Gramm cochairs Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign and advises the Republican candidate on economic matters. He's been mentioned as a possible Treasury secretary should McCain win. That's right: A guy who helped screw up the global financial system could end up in charge of US economic policy. Talk about a market failure.

Gramm's long been a handmaiden to Big Finance. In the 1990s, as chairman of the Senate banking committee, he routinely turned down Securities and Exchange Commission chairman Arthur Levitt's requests for more money to police Wall Street; during this period, the sec's workload shot up 80 percent, but its staff grew only 20 percent. Gramm also opposed an sec rule that would have prohibited accounting firms from getting too close to the companies they audited—at one point, according to Levitt's memoir, he warned the sec chairman that if the commission adopted the rule, its funding would be cut. And in 1999, Gramm pushed through a historic banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firms—setting off a wave of merger mania.

But Gramm's most cunning coup on behalf of his friends in the financial services industry—friends who gave him millions over his 24-year congressional career—came on December 15, 2000. It was an especially tense time in Washington. Only two days earlier, the Supreme Court had issued its decision on Bush v. Gore. President Bill Clinton and the Republican-controlled Congress were locked in a budget showdown. It was the perfect moment for a wily senator to game the system. As Congress and the White House were hurriedly hammering out a $384-billion omnibus spending bill, Gramm slipped in a 262-page measure called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Written with the help of financial industry lobbyists and cosponsored by Senator Richard Lugar (R-Ind.), the chairman of the agriculture committee, the measure had been considered dead—even by Gramm. Few lawmakers had either the opportunity or inclination to read the version of the bill Gramm inserted. "Nobody in either chamber had any knowledge of what was going on or what was in it," says a congressional aide familiar with the bill's history.

It's not exactly like Gramm hid his handiwork—far from it. The balding and bespectacled Texan strode onto the Senate floor to hail the act's inclusion into the must-pass budget package. But only an expert, or a lobbyist, could have followed what Gramm was saying. The act, he declared, would ensure that neither the sec nor the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (cftc) got into the business of regulating newfangled financial products called swaps—and would thus "protect financial institutions from overregulation" and "position our financial services industries to be world leaders into the new century."

Subprime 1-2-3

Don't understand credit default swaps? Don't worry—neither does Congress. Herewith, a step-by-step outline of the subprime risk betting game. —Casey Miner

CONTINUED…

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclo...




A fine mind for modern Bushonomics. Kill the middle class. Then, rob from the poor to give to the rich.

The Mentor



Anyone who’s ever heard him talk knows that Gramm must’ve learned all this stuff from somebody. He could never think it all up on his own. He had to have help. That’s where Meyer Lansky, the man who brought modern finance to the Mafia, comes in.



Money Laundering

Answers.com


EXCERPT...

History

Modern development


The act of "money laundering" was not invented during the Prohibition era in the United States, but many techniques were developed and refined then. Many methods were devised to disguise the origins of money generated by the sale of then-illegal alcoholic beverages. Following Al Capone's 1931 conviction for tax evasion, mobster Meyer Lansky transferred funds from Florida "carpet joints" (small casinos) to accounts overseas. After the 1934 Swiss Banking Act, which created the principle of bank secrecy, Meyer Lansky bought a Swiss bank to which he would transfer his illegal funds through a complex system of shell companies, holding companies, and offshore accounts.(1)

The term "money laundering" does not derive, as is often said, from Al Capone having used laundromats to hide ill-gotten gains. It was Meyer Lansky who perfected money laundering's older brother, "capital flight," transferring his funds to Switzerland and other offshore places. The first reference to the term "money laundering" itself actually appears during the Watergate scandal. US President Richard Nixon's "Committee to Re-elect the President" moved illegal campaign contributions to Mexico, then brought the money back through a company in Miami. It was Britain's Guardian newspaper that coined the term, referring to the process as "laundering.&quot 3)


Process

Money laundering is often described as occurring in three stages: placement, layering, and integration.(3)

Placement: refers to the initial point of entry for funds derived from criminal activities.

Layering: refers to the creation of complex networks of transactions which attempt to obscure the link between the initial entry point, and the end of the laundering cycle.

Integration: refers to the return of funds to the legitimate economy for later extraction.

However, The Anti Money Laundering Network recommends the terms

Hide: to reflect the fact that cash is often introduced to the economy via commercial concerns which may knowingly or not knowingly be part of the laundering scheme, and it is these which ultimately prove to be the interface between the criminal and the financial sector

Move: clearly explains that the money launderer uses transfers, sales and purchase of assets, and changes the shape and size of the lump of money so as to obfuscate the trail between money and crime or money and criminal.

Invest: the criminal spends the money: he/she may invest it in assets, or in his/her lifestyle.

CONTINUED...

http://www.answers.com/topic/money-laundering



The great journalist Lucy Komisar has shone a big light on the subject:



Offshore Banking

The U.S.A.’s Secret Threat


Lucy Komisar
The Blacklisted Journalist
June 1, 2003

EXCERPT…

In 1932, mobster Meyer Lansky took money from New Orleans slot machines and shifted it to accounts overseas. The Swiss secrecy law two years later assured him of G-man-proof banking. Later, he bought a Swiss bank and for years deposited his Havana casino take in Miami accounts, then wired the funds to Switzerland via a network of shell and holding companies and offshore accounts, some of them in banks whose officials knew very well they were working for criminals. By the 1950s, Lansky was using the system for cash from the heroin trade.

Today, offshore is where most of the world's drug money is laundered, estimated at up to $500 billion a year, more than the total income of the world's poorest 20 percent. Add the proceeds of tax evasion and the figure skyrockets to $1 trillion. Another few hundred billion come from fraud and corruption.

Lansky laundered money so he could pay taxes and legitimate his spoils. About half the users of offshore have opposite goals. As hotel owner and tax cheat Leona Helmsley said---according to her former housekeeper during Helmsley's trial for tax evasion---"Only the little people pay taxes." Rich individuals and corporations avoid taxes through complex, accountant-aided schemes that routinely use offshore accounts and companies to hide income and manufacture deductions.

The impact is massive. The IRS estimates that taxpayers fail to pay in excess of $100 billion in taxes annually due on income from legal sources. The General Accounting Office says that American wage-earners report 97 percent of their wages, while self-employed persons report just 11 percent of theirs. Each year between 1989 and 1995, a majority of corporations, both foreign- and U.S.-controlled, paid no U.S. income tax. European governments are fighting the same problem. The situation is even worse in developing countries.

The issue surfaces in the press when an accounting scam is so outrageous that it strains credulity. Take the case of Stanley Works, which announced a "move" of its headquarters-on paper-from New Britain, Connecticut, to Bermuda and of its imaginary management to Barbados. Though its building and staff would actually stay put, manufacturing hammers and wrenches, Stanley Works would no longer pay taxes on profits from international trade. The Securities and Exchange Commission, run by Harvey Pitt---an attorney who for more than twenty years represented the top accounting and Wall Street firms he was regulating---accepted the pretense as legal.

"The whole business is a sham," fumed New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, who more than any other U.S. law enforcer has attacked the offshore system. "The headquarters will be in a country where that company is not permitted to do business. They're saying a company is managed in Barbados when there's one meeting there a year. In the prospectus, they say legally controlled and managed in Barbados. If they took out the word legally, it would be a fraud. But Barbadian law says it's legal, so it's legal." The conceit apparently also persuaded the Securities and Exchange Commission.

CONTINUED…

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column92e.html



Socialize the risk for Wall Street. Privatize the loss to Uncle Sam’s nieces and nephews. Congratulations, Dear Reader! Now you know as much as Phil Gramm.

The Diversion

Still, a global financial meltdown sounds like something bad. Making things worse, we’re hearing that Uncle Sam is broke! Flat busted. Tapped out.

That’s odd, though. We the People see the Treasury being emptied with tax breaks for the wealthy and checks to the companies they own that make money off of war. Want to know how to make a buck these days? Invest in the likes of Halliburton and Northrup Grumman. Anything in the warmongering business connected to Bush and his cronies will weather the downturn or depression.

The Wall Street Journal -- a paper owned and operated by Fox News’ head, Rupert Murdoch – was very quick to promote the crisis, as DUer JustPlainKathy observed. The paper was even faster to pounce on a solution: What’s needed is a safety net for banks. And quick as a wink, they found the answer!
Only the U.S. taxpayer has the wherewithal to prevent the collapse of the global financial system -- a global economic meltdown that would freeze up credit and investment and expansion and prosperity and a return to the Great Depression. Who can be against that?

Oh. Kay. Sounds about right – Rupert the Alien agreeing with what Leona Helmsley said: “Only the little people pay taxes.”



Gramm and McCain also are in favor of privatization. How nice is that?

The Getaway

George Walker Bush and his right-wing pals feel they can get away with this, their latest rip-off the American taxpayers. Who can blame them? When compared to their clear record of incompetence, lies, fraud, theft, mass-murder, warmongering and treason, what’s a few trillion dollar rip-off?



Still, it's weird how they act.
They must really think they’ll be welcomed with open arms in Paraguay and Dubai and Switzerland.
Going by the welcome the world gave the Shah of Iran, they’re in for a big surprise.

The FBI Guy

Don’t say we weren’t warned. An intrepid FBI agent with something sorely lacking in the rest of the Bush administration, integrity, blew the whistle on the bank thing…



FBI saw threat of mortgage crisis

A top official warned of widening loan fraud in 2004, but the agency focused its resources elsewhere.

By Richard B. Schmitt
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

August 25, 2008

WASHINGTON — Long before the mortgage crisis began rocking Main Street and Wall Street, a top FBI official made a chilling, if little-noticed, prediction: The booming mortgage business, fueled by low interest rates and soaring home values, was starting to attract shady operators and billions in losses were possible.

"It has the potential to be an epidemic," Chris Swecker, the FBI official in charge of criminal investigations, told reporters in September 2004. But, he added reassuringly, the FBI was on the case. "We think we can prevent a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis," he said.

Today, the damage from the global mortgage meltdown has more than matched that of the savings-and-loan bailouts of the 1980s and early 1990s. By some estimates, it has made that costly debacle look like chump change. But it's also clear that the FBI failed to avert a problem it had accurately forecast.

Banks and brokerages have written down more than $300 billion of mortgage-backed securities and other risky investments in the last year or so as homeowner defaults leaped and weakness in the real estate market spread.

SNIP…

Most observers have declared the mess a gross failure of regulation. To be sure, in the run-up to the crisis, market-oriented federal regulators bragged about their hands-off treatment of banks and other savings institutions and their executives. But it wasn't just regulators who were looking the other way. The FBI and its parent agency, the Justice Department, are supposed to act as the cops on the beat for potentially illegal activities by bankers and others. But they were focused on national security and other priorities, and paid scant attention to white-collar crimes that may have contributed to the lending and securities debacle.

Now that the problems are out in the open, the government's response strikes some veteran regulators as too little, too late.

Swecker, who retired from the FBI in 2006, declined to comment for this article.

But sources familiar with the FBI budget process, who were not authorized to speak publicly about the growing fraud problem, say that he and other FBI criminal investigators sought additional assistance to take on the mortgage scoundrels.

They ended up with fewer resources, rather than more.

CONTINUED…

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-mortgagefraud25-2008aug25,0,6946937.story



We were warned and nothing happened.

Repeat: And nothing happened.

They must think We the People are really stupid. Are we supposed to believe that all that $700 billion in bad debt just happened? Where did all that money go? Who got all the money?

Meyer Lansky moved the Mafia’s money from the Cuban casinos to Switzerland. He did so by buying a bank in Miami. Phil Gramm seems to have done the same thing as vice-chairman of UBS, except the amounts are in the billions.

Who cares? He’s almost gone? Nope. That money still exists somewhere. I have a pretty good idea of where it might be. And George Bush and his cronies are poised to get away with a whole lot of loot.


Who Should Pay for the Bailout

If you are fortunate enough to be one, good luck American taxpayer! You’re in for a royal fleecing. Once the interest is figured into the bailout, we’re looking at a couple of trill.

The people who should pay for the bailout aren’t the American people. That distinction should go to the crooks who stole it -- friends of Gramm like John McCain and George Bush and the rest of the Raygunomix crowd of snake-oil salesmen. For them, the Bush administration -- and a good chunk of time since Ronald Reagan -- has not been a disaster. It’s been a cash cow.

The above was posted on DU on Sept. 21, 2008. (Check out the responses, lots of info from DUers.) What's changed since then? Nothing near what We the People interested in Justice would have hoped for, certainly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4055207

Most importantly: Thank you for the kind words. Feel the exact same towards you and all great DUers, NBachers, fighting the good fight.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
122. Experts Agree!
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:37 PM
Jul 2015

From a classmate of George W Bush back in the day, a 1991 cover of Lies Of Our Times:



A professor of criminal justice also has observed...



The Bush Family: A Continuing Criminal Enterprise?

Gary W. Potter, PhD.
Professor, Criminal Justice
Eastern Kentucky University

The S&Ls, the Mob and the Bushs

During the 1980's hundred of Savings and Loan Banks failed. Those bank failures cost U.S. taxpayers over $500 billion to cover federally insured losses, and much more to investigate the bank failures (Pizzo, Fricker, and Muolo, 1989; Brewton, 1992; Johnston, 1990). More than 75% of the Savings and Loan insolvencies where directly linked to serious and often criminal misconduct by senior financial insiders (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 305). In fact, less than 10 percent of bank failures are related to economic conditions, the rest are caused by mismanagement or criminal conduct (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 305).

A good example of the Savings and Loan failures can be found in the activities of Mario Renda, a Savings and Loan insider who often worked in close collaboration with organized crime (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 123-126;302). Renda served as a middle man in arranging about $5 billion a year in deposits into 130 Savings and Loans, all of which failed (Kwitny, 1992: 27). Many of these deposits were made contingent on an agreement that the Savings and Loan involved would lend money to borrowers recommended by Renda, many of whom were organized crime figures or people entirely unknown to the banking institution involved (Kwitny, 1992: 27).

SNIP...

Prescott Bush: The Yakuza’s Frontman

Finally, and perhaps most seriously, the Bush family pioneered the practice which has now become commonplace of collaboration between corporate and organized criminals. Prescott Bush, uncle of the current President and brother of the former President, played a key role in helping the Japanese Yakuza extend their financial and real estate holdings to the United States. In 1989, Prescott Bush made arrangements for a front company for Japanese organized crime groups to buy into two U.S. corporations and to make a sizeable real investment in the U.S. (Helm, 1991a: 1; Isikoff, 1992: A1). West Tsusho, a Japanese corporation, was identified by Japanese police officials as a front company for one of that country’s largest organized crime syndicates. Prescott Bush was paid a fee of $500,000 for his help in negotiating West Tsusho’s purchase of controlling interest in Assets Management, a U.S. corporation (Helm, 1991a: 1; Isikoff, 1992: A1). Bush also assisted the Japanese mob in investing in Quantam Access, a U.S. software company, which was ultimately taken over by the Japanese (Helm, 1991b: 10; Isikoff, 1992: A1). Both companies ultimately went into bankruptcy (Isikoff, 1992: A1; Moses, 1992).

George Bush Sr.: Shutting Down the Organize Crime Strike Forces

Despite assessments from senior law enforcement officers and experts on organized crime that efforts to control organized crime would be crippled, in December 1989, the administration of George Bush, Sr. abolished all 14 regional organized crime strike forces (McAlister, 1989: A 21; Struck out, 1990). The organized crime strike had been created as independent entities so they would not be subject to political influences or bureaucratic wrangling within federal law enforcement. In the two decades of their operation the strike forces had secured convictions of major organized crime figures in several U.S. cities (Struck out, 1990). It is at the very least curious to note that the federal strike force in Miami had been responsible for indicting Miguel Recarey, the man for whom Jeb Bush had intervened with regulators. Organized crime strike forces had similarly indicted Mario Renda, the organized crime liaison to the S& L’s, as well as several other key figures in the Savings and Loan Fiasco (Pizzo, Fricker, and Mulolo, 1989: 112, 120-123, 303, 337).

CONTINUED...

http://critcrim.org/critpapers/potter.htm



Thank you for grokking the situation, PowerToThePeople! When the secret government has all our ISPs, it takes a brave person.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
130. Is David Petraeus Dirty? Ted Westhusing Said So, and Then He Shot Himself.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jul 2015

Here's why DU truly matters for Democracy...

Col. Westhusing was in charge of training the new Iraqi army and overseeing civilian contractors.
He is remembered as a good man, a brilliant man who followed the Cadet Code:
"I will not lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those who do.”



Col. Westhusing was the Army's chief ethicist and someone who suspected something was wrong with David Petraeus, way back when. Then, just when he was about to come home to his loving wife and family, he became a suicide.



Is David Petraeus Dirty? Ted Westheusing Said So, and Then He Shot Himself

By Melina Hussein Ripcoco, Brilliant at Breakfast
Alternet.org
April 8, 2008

Ted Westhusing, was a champion basketball player at Jenks High School in Tulsa Oklahoma. A driven kid with a strong work ethic, he would show up at the gym at 7AM to throw 100 practice shots before school. He was driven academically too, becoming a National Merritt Scholarship finalist. His career through West Point and straight into overseas service was sterling, and by 2000 he had enrolled in Emory University to earn his doctorate in Philosophy. His dissertation was on honor and the ethics of war, with the opening containing the following passage: "Born to be a warrior, I desire these answers not just for philosophical reasons, but for self-knowledge." Would that all military commanders took such an interest in the study of ethics and morality and what our conduct in times of war says about our development as human beings. Would that any educational system in this country taught ethics, decision making, or even political science that's not part of an advanced degree anymore.

Ted Westhusing, the soldier, philosopher and ethicist, was given a guaranteed lifetime teaching position and West Point by the time he had finished with his service and his education. he felt like he could do more for his country by trying to shape the minds coming out of the academy that were the ones that would be military commanders. He had settled into that life with his wife and kids, when in 2004 he volunteered for active duty in Iraq, feeling like the experience would help his teaching. He had missed combat in his active duty and it seemed like an important piece for someone who not only philosophized about war, but who was also preparing the military's future leaders.

But more than that, he was sure that the Iraq mission was a just one; he supported the cause and he bought the information that was put in front of him. Considering that vials of powder were being tossed around hearings by the highest level of military commanders how could he not? This was a man who was so steeped in the patriotism of idealistic military fervor that he barely could fit in regular society. His whole being was dedicated to this path, and he was proud to serve his country.

Once in Iraq, he found himself straddling the fence between a questioning philosopher and an unquestioning soldier. Westhusing had thought he was freeing a country in bondage, keeping America safe from a horrible threat, and spreading democracy to a grateful people. But the reality of what was happening in this out of control war was too much for him. His mission was to oversee one of the most important tasks left from the war; retraining the Iraqi military by overseeing the private contractors that had been put in charge of it.

As the assignment went on he found that everywhere he looked he was seeing corrupt contractors doing shoddy work, abusing people, and stealing from the government. These contractors were being paid to do many of the jobs that would normally be done by a regulated military, and they bore out the worst fears of those who don't believe in outsourcing such vital work. He responded to the corruption that he saw by reporting the problems up the line, but the response from his commanding officers was disappointing. He had, for much of his career, idolized military commanders, and in that assignment he found himself with some of the military's most famous faces, doing the most important job, but he was terribly disappointed and alarmed to realize that they were greedy and corrupt themselves.

CONTINUED...

http://www.alternet.org/story/81678/is_david_petraeus_dirty_ted_westhusing_said_so,_and_then_he_shot_himself

COMPLETE ORIGINAL ARTICLE: http://www.ripcoco.com/2008/04/is-david-petraeus-dirty-ted-westheusing.html



Marcy Wheeler has more guts than the entire Washington press corps.



They have yet to note what kind of official also makes money off war.

gordianot

(15,240 posts)
27. Ha I have connections to both Bushes and Smedly Butler (my Grandfather met and admired him).
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:33 PM
Jul 2015

Bushes are distant relatives will never bother to see how they are related, Butler was real popular in the early 30's with veterans groups where a relative encountered him. Guess I missed out on the "evil empire" connections. Yes the spying has been going on a long long time and Americans have been good at it since the Revolutionary War.

gordianot

(15,240 posts)
103. My kids never heard of Butler from school before 2004, I made sure they did.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:15 PM
Jul 2015

I also made sure they were aware of the stain on the family tree. I toured the Pentagon in 2005 with a high school group the young soldier guiding the tour pointed out the wall of Congressional Medal of Honor winners I asked her if she knew the story of Butler she did not. I told her Butler is well worth reading about and he directly defended the Constitution as part of his oath without details. We got to see the memorial where the reconstructed door stands where a plane penetrated the Pentagon. Before we gave up our phones I showed her the picture of the door where the plane is supposed to have entered and the wall collapsed she had never seen those pictures. An amazing crash with minimal debris no wings outside the door. When she came to the Pentagon she told us she got to tour Rumsfelds' office where he keeps metal from the crashed plane. A very enlightening day and yes Butler is probably the greatest hero of the 20th century, hope some more come along of his stature in the 21st century.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
161. Glad you are. Great family and a great family name, Bush.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:30 PM
Jul 2015

I have had several friends over the the years with that appellation, including a very brave police officer who almost lost his life in the line of duty. Several DUers over the years have indicated to me that they, too, have family and friends who are in the family. Some in the family are very embarrassed by the crimes and actions of the few.



Regarding Maj. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler, his story should never be forgotten. In addition to heroism in combat, where he was twice awarded the Medals of Honor, Gen. Butler stood up to American fascists who wanted to take over the country, and thenstood up to war profiteers who use their positions of power and wealth to make money off war.

gordianot

(15,240 posts)
183. Odd my relative met his cousin Bush on his Grandfathers oil field in Kansas.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:30 PM
Jul 2015

They have been sniffing oil for a long time.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
168. Remember how Rove really liked to fire and promote US Attorneys?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:44 PM
Jul 2015

One who got the ziggy was Carol Lam, whom I hoped would be nominated to the Federal bench. Instead, she took the golden parachute and bailed rather than fight MasterBlaster.



Carol Lam was wondering about corrupt Military Industrial Complex between the Pentagon and Congress and the Bush White House and all manner of stuff when given the ziggy by Karl Rove and his poodle Alberto Gonzalez.



Was Carol Lam Targeting The White House Prior To Her Firing

By Faiz Shakir on Mar 19, 2007 at 1:52 pm

lamReferring to the Bush administration’s purge of former San Diego-based U.S. attorney Carol Lam, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) questioned recently on the Senate floor whether she was let go because she was “about to investigate other people who were politically powerful.”

The media reports this morning that among Lam’s politically powerful targets were former CIA official Kyle “Dusty” Foggo and then-House Appropriations Committee Chairman Jerry Lewis (R-CA). But there is evidence to believe that the White House may also have been on Lam’s target list. Here are the connections:

– Washington D.C. defense contractor Mitchell Wade pled guilty last February to paying then-California Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham more than $1 million in bribes.

– Wade’s company MZM Inc. received its first federal contract from the White House. The contract, which ran from July 15 to August 15, 2002, stipulated that Wade be paid $140,000 to “provide office furniture and computers for Vice President Dick Cheney.”

– Two weeks later, on August 30, 2002, Wade purchased a yacht for $140,000 for Duke Cunningham. The boat’s name was later changed to the “Duke-Stir.” Said one party to the sale: “I knew then that somebody was going to go to jail for that…Duke looked at the boat, and Wade bought it — all in one day. Then they got on the boat and floated away.”

– According to Cunningham’s sentencing memorandum, the purchase price of the boat had been negotiated through a third-party earlier that summer, around the same time the White House contract was signed.

CONTINUED w/LINKS...

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2007/03/19/11209/carol-lam-white-house/



Things like the prosecution of traitors and warmongers are exactly what I look for in a prosecutor, judge, attorney general and president no matter what party. Such would help fill the prisons with those who belong there, the crowd counting on Bush's brain.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
177. Too many don't know what they've done to the country and to Don Siegelman.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:16 PM
Jul 2015

If a Grand Jury convened, even one led by one of those former state Attorneys General who signed the letter in support of Gov. Don Siegelman, it wold go a long way toward setting things right.



EXCERPT...

Career Prosecutors Opposed Siegelman Case

DEPARTMENT No Comment
BY Scott Horton
PUBLISHED October 29, 2007

EXCERPT...

Rove Called the Shots

The new posture taken by the increasingly implausible defense of the Siegelman prosecution is simple. Louis Franklin called all the shots. And Franklin insists that Karl Rove had no dealings with him and thus no influence on the case.

But these claims simply cannot be squared with the record, and with repeated statements that Franklin himself made to the court. But maybe we should start just with the accounts published previously by the Birmingham News itself, such as its March 26, 2006 report on the Siegelman case in which it offers its signature Franklin exclusive:
Louis Franklin, the acting U.S. attorney in the case, said career employees from the Middle District of Alabama and the Public Integrity Division in Washington have made the major decisions in the case.11. Kim Chandler, Siegelman Ties Riley to Indictment, Birmingham News, Mar. 26, 2006, p. 21A.

On February 29, 2006, Franklin filed a sworn affidavit, in which he discussed the decision making process:
We informed defense counsel that the investigation was a joint effort involving the USAO-MDAL , DOJ Public Integrity Section and theAlabama Attorney General’s Office and each entity would participate in all decision-making processes.

Franklin goes on to describe a negotiation session with Scrushy’s counsel in which, even by his account, Noel Hillman played the leading role. In para. 18 of the same affidavit, Franklin states that he is uncertain about a new indictment because whether charges can be brought requires the approval of the Criminal Division in Washington, and they have not yet informed him of their decision.

On April 14, 2006, Louis Franklin filed a motion to block Governor Siegelman from arguing or presenting evidence that the prosecution was politically motivated—and won. Here’s what Franklin told Judge Fuller:
In this case, the only person associated with the prosecutors who is accused of discriminatory motive is U.S. Attorney Leura Canary…

Former Attorney General, and now United States Circuit Judge Bill Pryor publicly announced the joint state and federal investigation of Defendant Siegelman’s administration in June 2001—months before Ms. Canary was appointed U.S. Attorney. The federal grand jury did not convene in connection with this investigation until June 2004 — well after Ms. Canary’s recusal from the case. . .

Louis Franklin, the acting U.S. Attorney in the case, and career employee from the Middle District of Alabama’s U.S. Attorney’s Office, the Public Integrity Division of the United States Department of Justice in Washington, D.C., and the Alabama Attorney General’s Office have jointly made all of the substantive decisions in the case since Ms. Canary’s recusal, including the decisions to convene a special grand jury in 2004 and to present charges to that grand jury. None of these individuals have been accused of political motivations by the defendants, either in the case or in the press. Moreover, any claims regarding Ms. Canary’s political motivations cannot be imputed to them.

CONTINUED...

http://harpers.org/archive/2007/10/hbc-90001540



But, for some reason, those who help continue Rove's reign by keeping Siegelman in the pen get appointed to the Supreme Court.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
184. The way the playing field is currently laid out, no.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:34 PM
Jul 2015


Wanna know where a lot of the $32 trillion "gained" over 32 years of Trickle Down economics -- including a buttload "lost" in the great Bankster Bailout -- went?



Check Out Who's Hiding $32 Trillion in Offshore Tax Haven Accounts

EXCERPT...

Some $32 trillion has been hidden in small island banking hubs which host a bevy of trust funds, shell corporations and other tax havens, the Tax Justice Network estimates.

SNIP...

The information is still being sifted through, even as it's being released to the public, but here's some of what's been found so far:

■ American Denise Rich, ex-wife of pardoned tax cheat Marc Rich, has been uncovered as the settlor and beneficiary of two large trusts based in the tiny Cook Islands. The ICIJ found that Denise Rich gave up her American citizenship in 2012. Her citizenship was convenient enough when President Clinton had the authority to pardon her ex-husband.

■ French President Francois Hollande, ardent socialist and tireless champion of the 75% marginal tax rate, appears in these documents, mostly by association. His campaign co-treasurer, Jean-Jacques Augier, has been forced to reveal the name of his Chinese business partner in a Caymans-based distribution company. Augier says he used his offshore company to make a large investment in China.

■ Australian actor Paul Hogan, of "Crocodile Dundee" fame, has lost about $35.3 million from an account that he used to offshore his "bonza" film royalties. His once-trusted tax adviser Philip Egglishaw ran off with Hogan's sizeable hidden offshore stash.

■ French banking scion Elie de Rothschild, of the famous banking family, has been named in the leaks. He was instrumental in setting up some 20 trusts and 10 holding companies in the Cook Islands, all extremely opaque in nature. His heirs have, not surprisingly, refused comment.

■ Brigitte Bardot's third ex-husband, Gunter Sachs, a millionaire industrialist, has been revealed as the owner of a huge, obscure wealth-masking machine: trust upon shell company upon holding company, almost ad infinitum, mostly based in the Cook Islands. The ICIJ has constructed an interactive map of Sachs' extensive offshore holdings and business networks. The network is fairly representative of the steps that many on this list have taken to hide their wealth away. You can marvel at its imponderable complexity here.


And these names are barely the tip of the iceberg. The shockwaves have already begun to spread through the corridors of wealth and power all over the world.

How Much is $32 Trillion?

It bears repeating: $32 trillion has been stashed away, off the books, by corporations and wealthy individuals.

CONTINUED...

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40250.html



Offshore loot also represents money made from trafficking in drugs, guns and people. So...what can we do about it?



On My Mind

Tax Offshore Wealth Sitting In First World Banks

James S. Henry
07.01.10, 09:00 AM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated July 19, 2010

Let's tax offshore private wealth.

How can we get the world's wealthiest scoundrels--arms dealers, dictators, drug barons, tax evaders--to help us pay for the soaring costs of deficits, disaster relief, climate change and development? Simple: Levy a modest withholding tax on untaxed private offshore loot.

Many aboveground economies around the world are struggling, but the economic underground is booming. By my estimate, there is $15 trillion to $20 trillion in private wealth sitting offshore in bank accounts, brokerage accounts and hedge fund portfolios, completely untaxed.

SNIP...

This wealth is concentrated. Nearly half of it is owned by 91,000 people--[font color="green"]0.001% of the world's population[/font color]. Ninety-five percent is owned by the planet's wealthiest 10 million people.

SNIP...

Is it feasible? Yes. The majority of offshore wealth is managed by 50 banks. As of September 2009 these banks accounted for $10.8 trillion of offshore assets--72% of the industry's total. The busiest 10 of them manage 40%.

CONTINUED....

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0719/opinions-taxation-tax-havens-banking-on-my-mind.html



Not only would that money balance the budget, erase the debt and fix the nation and world's problems from hunger and homeless to energy and education; it would free humanity to do better things than make war all the time.

PS: Thank you for fighting the good fight and never giving up, niyad. Weren't for you and a bunch of good DUers, it'd be nigh-impossible to continue.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
188. The Bush dynasty and the Cuban criminals
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:42 PM
Jul 2015
New book reveals links of two presidents and the governor of Florida with exiled hardliners

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
The Guardian, Dec. 1, 2002

The brother of President George Bush, the Florida governor, Jeb Bush, has been instrumental in securing the release from prison of militant Cuban exiles convicted of terrorist offences, according to a new book. The Bush family has also accommodated the demands of Cuban exile hardliners in exchange for electoral and financial support, the book suggests.

Last year, after September 11, while the justice department announced a sweep of terrorist suspects, Cubans convicted of terrorist offences were being released from US jails with the consent of the Bush administration, according to the book, Cuba Confidential: Love and Vengeance in Miami and Havana, by Ann Louise Bardach, the award-winning investigative journalist who has covered Cuban and Miami politics for the New York Times and Vanity Fair.

The Bush family connections go back to 1984 when Jeb Bush began a close association with Camilo Padreda, a former intelligence officer with the Batista dictatorship overthrown by Fidel Castro.

Jeb Bush was then the chairman of the Dade county Republican party and Padreda its finance chairman. Padreda had earlier been indicted on a $500,000 (£320,000) embezzlement charge along with a fellow exile, Hernandez Cartaya, but the charges were dropped, reportedly after the CIA stated that Cartaya had worked for them.

Padreda later pleaded guilty to defrauding the housing and urban development department of millions of dollars during the 1980s.

The president's younger brother was also on the payroll in the 80s of the prominent Cuban exile Miguel Recarey, who had earlier assisted the CIA in attempts to assassinate President Castro.

Recarey, who ran International Medical Centres (IMC), employed Jeb Bush as a real estate consultant and paid him a $75,000 fee for finding the company a new location, although the move never took place, which raised questions at the time. Jeb Bush did, however, lobby the Reagan/Bush administration vigorously and successfully on behalf of Recarey and IMC. "I want to be very wealthy," Jeb Bush told the Miami News when questioned during that period.

In 1985, Jeb Bush acted as a conduit on behalf of supporters of the Nicaraguan contras with his father, then the vice-president, and helped arrange for IMC to provide free medical treatment for the contras.

CONTINUED...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/02/usa.books

PS: Thank you for the kind words, canoeist52! As long as there are two of us, democracy lives.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
189. Mark Lombardi knew Bush-Bath-bin-Laden connection in 1999.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:45 PM
Jul 2015

The next year he was dead, a suicide. After September 11, the FBI showed up at the gallery to photograph his work.



George W. Bush, Harken Energy and Jackson Stephens
c. 1979-90, 5th Version
1999



"Obsessive—Generous"

Toward a Diagram of Mark Lombardi

by Frances Richard
wburg.com

Who is James R. Bath?

A nodal point in Mark Lombardi's drawing George W. Bush, Harken Energy and Jackson Stephens c. 1979-90, 5th Version, 1999, James R. Bath appears in the upper lefthand corner of the 16 1/2" x 41" piece of paper. The spatial syntax of Lombardi's drawings—which map in elegantly visual terms the secret deals and suspect associations of financiers, politicians, corporations, and governments—dictates that the more densely lines ray out from a given node, the more deeply that figure is embroiled in the tale Lombardi tells. Thirteen lines originate with or point to James R. Bath, more than any other name presented. Among those linked to this obscure yet central character are George W. Bush, Jr., George H.W. Bush, Sr., Senator Lloyd Bentsen of Texas, Governor John B. Connally of Texas, Sheik Salim bin Laden of Saudi Arabia, and Sheik Salim's younger brother, Osama bin Laden.

The drawing is done on pale beige paper, in pencil. It follows a time-line, with dates arrayed across three horizontal tiers. These in turn support arcs denoting personal and corporate alliances, the whole comprising a skeletal resume of George W. Bush's career in the oil business. In other words, the drawing, like all Lombardi's work, is a post-Conceptual reinvention of history painting, a document of factually verifiable yet extremely pared-down relationships limned in a double light of international fame and cryptic realpolitik. Or rather, the light is triple. For, though he possessed the instincts of a private eye and the acumen of a systems-analyst, Lombardi was of course an artist, and from the raw material of wire-service reports and books by political correspondents, he drew not only chronicles of covert, high-stakes trade, but technically pristine and sensually compelling visual forms. His project's sources are profoundly art-historical, even as they are obviously journalistic, and the creative tension between abstracted, self-propelling image and direct verbal communication propels his work. Delicately balanced and gracefully enlaced, these lines and circles read from across the room as purely retinal explorations of two-dimensional space. Their stylized complexity, however, lures the eye in, to a point where language registers as legible and referentiality asserts itself through the scrim of form. A narrative emerges. Looking shifts toward reading, and Lombardi's one-two punch lands.

James R. Bath, it turns out, is a Texas businessman, a sometime aeronautics broker whose firm, Skyway Aircraft Leasing, LTD., was a Cayman Islands front amassing money for use by Oliver North in the Iran-Contra affair. Bath also served as an agent minding American interests for a quartet of Saudi Arabian billionaires, one of whom was Sheik Salim bin Laden, the oldest son and heir of Sheik Mohammed bin Laden, father of fifty-four children including Osama. According to reports by the Houston Chronicle, the Wall Street Journal, Time, and others, Bath did business in his own name but with the Saudis' money; tax records indicate that he collected a fee of 5% on their multimillion dollar American investments. In 1979, Bath contributed $50,000 to Arbusto Energy, a limited-partnership controlled by George W. Bush. As Bath had little capital of his own, oil insiders trace the funds to his silent partners, specifically Salim bin Laden. Such cash infusions from Bath's client sheiks and George H.W. Bush's cartel cronies could not, however, prop Arbusto up. The venture collapsed in 1981 and merged into the Spectrum 7 Energy Corporation. Spectrum—still with W. at the helm—evolved through more near-failures and mergers into Harken Energy, which, in 1990, embarked upon a sweetheart deal to drill oil wells in Bahrain—this regardless of the fact that Harken had never drilled an overseas well, nor a marine well of any kind. Oil industry cognoscenti again assume that the Bahrain contract was orchestrated as a favor from the Saudis to the American chief executive and his family. The favor paid. On June 20, 1990, George W. Bush sold two-thirds of his Harken stock at $4 per share. Eight days later, Harken finished the second quarter with losses of $23 million; the stock promptly lost 75% of its value, finishing at just over $1 per share. Two months later, Iraq invaded Kuwait, and the Gulf War began. All these events are cited in Lombardi's drawing.

Meanwhile, another Bath associate, Sheik Khalid bin Mafouz, was involved in the collapse (in July, 1991) of the Bank of Credit and Commerce, International, better known as BCCI. Among the sins of the Pakistani-owned BCCI were money-laundering on behalf of Colombian druglords, arms brokering, bribery, and aid to terrorists; when this cabal came unglued, millions of investors in seventy-three countries lost their life-savings. Although Bath was not personally implicated in the BCCI fiasco, an estranged business partner claims that that he, Bath, had been recruited to the CIA in 1976-77 by George Bush, Sr., after serving in the Texas Air National Guard as the buddy of George Bush, Jr. (in 1972, the two young men narrowly escaped arrest for cocaine possession). Bath's putative CIA connections, the Agency's operations in the Middle East, and the adventures of BCCI thus compose a kind of symmetry. The byzantine saga of BCCI's demise is plotted in the drawing that is perhaps Lombardi's masterwork, BCCI-ICIC-FAB, c. 1972-1991, (4th Version), 1996-2000. Unveiled in the landmark P.S. 1 exhibition "Greater New York" in 2000, this piece signaled Lombardi's arrival at the cusp of art world fame; it is now in the permanent collection of the Whitney Museum. A wall-size panel schematizing twenty years of suspect alliances amongst scores of players, BCCI-ICIC-FAB… was the last major work the artist made before his death.

For those who followed the BCCI scandal—or the Harken Energy/insider trading scandal, or the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro scandal, or the Lincoln Savings & Loan scandal, or any of Lombardi's pet juggernauts—these diagrams summarize rather than amend available knowledge. He was always careful to explain that he did not conduct primary investigations, but culled his information exclusively from the public record; a basic Internet search yields multiple references to the Bath/Bush/bin Laden connection. However, ferreting out and adding up in one's own head the myriad fragments scattered across the infotainment megascape is a very different experience from standing before Lombardi's rhythmic plots. In the strangely contemplative and yet galvanizing presence of these images, the graphic equilibrium with which he invests his subjects is transformative. To track these events in the context of the drawings is to experience their import freshly, to undergo a shock of mixed recognition and surprise.

CONTINUED...

http://www.wburg.com/0202/arts/lombardi.html



A particularly relevant detail:



More detail on the artist and his work:



Mark Lombardi and the Ecstasy of Conspiracy

Michael Bierut

With the 40th anniversary of the assassination of JFK freshly behind us, our abiding romance with conspiracy theories seems more ardent than ever. And one of the most remarkable expressions of that romance is on view at The Drawing Center in New York, "Global Networks," an exhibition of the work of Mark Lombardi. In an age where we all dimly sense that The Truth Is Out There, Lombardi's extraordinary drawings aim to provide all the answers.



Although Lombardi's work has combined the mesmerizing detail of the engineering diagram and the obsessive annotation of the outsider artist, the man was neither scientist nor madman. Armed with a BA in art history, he began as a researcher and archivist in the Houston fine arts community with a passing interest in corporate scandal, financial malfeasance, and the hidden web of connections that seemed to connect, for instance, the Mafia, the Vatican bank, and the 1980's savings and loan debacle. His initial explorations were narrative, but in 1993 he made the discovery that some kinds of information are best expressed diagrammatically.

The resulting body of work must be seen to be believed — an admittedly oxymoronic endorsement of subject matter of such supreme skepticism. Lombardi's delicate tracings, mostly in black pencil with the occasional red accent, cover enormous sheets of paper (many over four feet high and eight feet long), mapping the deliriously Byzantine relationships of, say, Oliver North, Lake Resources of Panama, and the Iran-Contra operation, or Global International Airways and the Indian Springs State Bank of Kansas City. Because the work visualizes connections rather than causality, Lombardi was able to take the same liberties as Harry Beck's 1933 map for the London Underground, freely arranging the players to create gorgeous patterns: swirling spheres, hopscotching arcs, wheels within wheels.



Detail, Mark Lombardi, George W. Bush, Harken Energy, and Jackson Stephens, ca. 1979-90 (5th version), 1999

Lombardi was indeed an enthusiastic student of information design, a reader of Edward Tufte and a collector of the charts of Nigel Holmes. But if the goal of information design is to make things clear, Lombardi's drawings, in fact, do the opposite. The hypnotic miasma of names, institutions, corporations and locations that envelop each drawing demonstrates nothing if not the inherent -- the intentional -- unknowability of each of these networks. Like Rube Goldberg devices, their only meaning is their ecstatic complexity; like Hitchcockian McGuffins, understanding them is less important than simply knowing they exist.

Lomardi, who was born in 1951 and died in 2000, did not live to see today's historical moment, where his worldview seems not eccentric but positively prescient. His drawing BCCI-ICIC & FAB, 1972-91 (4th version) was studied in situ at the Whitney Museum by F.B.I. agents in the days after 9/11; reportedly, consultants to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security previewed the current show at the Drawing Center. One wonders whether he would have felt vindicated or alarmed by this kind of attention.

The catalog for the exhibition, which was organized by Robert Hobbs and Independent Curators International, cannot possibly do the drawings justice. But it may be worth it for the extended captions alone, each one of which could serve as an outline for a pretty decent John leCarre novel. And in what other art catalog could you find an index where (under the Cs alone) one finds Canadian Armament and Research Development Establishment; capitalism; Capone, Al; Castro, Fidel, and conceptual art? And it is in the catalog that one finds, tossed away almost casually in a footnote, the following fact: "The police report cited suicide by hanging as the reason for Mark Lombardi's death. The door to his studio was locked from the inside." That last detail is an all-too-common device in mystery novels, where it inevitably raises the same question: yes, that's how it seems, but what really happened? Mark Lombardi's work tries, valiantly, to answer that very question.

11.24.03

http://www.designobserver.com/archives/000072.html



Thank you for digging what this is about, SoapBox. Tried keeping it simple, but hundreds of crimes and thousands of players and millions killed and trillions of dollars...

jalan48

(13,870 posts)
32. Keep it up. Too many want to whitewash the past and "move-on".
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:55 PM
Jul 2015

That's total BS and sends the message to the next group of immoral felons that they will be pardoned at the end of the day.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
190. The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jul 2015




The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism

Traditional fascism is defined as a right-wing political system run by a dictator who prohibits dissent and relies on repression. But some analysts believe a new form of fascism has arisen that has a democratic façade and is based on relentless propaganda and endless war, as journalist John Pilger describes.

By John Pilger
ConsortiumNews.com, March 2, 2015

The recent 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz was a reminder of the great crime of fascism, whose Nazi iconography is embedded in our consciousness. Fascism is preserved as history, as flickering footage of goose-stepping blackshirts, their criminality terrible and clear. Yet in the same liberal societies, whose war-making elites urge us never to forget, the accelerating danger of a modern kind of fascism is suppressed; for it is their fascism.

“To initiate a war of aggression…,” said the Nuremberg Tribunal judges in 1946, “is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

Had the Nazis not invaded Europe, Auschwitz and the Holocaust would not have happened. Had the United States and its satellites not initiated their war of aggression in Iraq in 2003, almost a million people would be alive today; and Islamic State, or ISIS, would not have us in thrall to its savagery. They are the progeny of modern fascism, weaned by the bombs, bloodbaths and lies that are the surreal theatre known as news.

Like the fascism of the 1930s and 1940s, big lies are delivered with the precision of a metronome: thanks to an omnipresent, repetitive media and its virulent censorship by omission. Take the catastrophe in Libya.

In 2011, Nato launched 9,700 “strike sorties” against Libya, of which more than a third were aimed at civilian targets. Uranium warheads were used; the cities of Misurata and Sirte were carpet-bombed. The Red Cross identified mass graves, and Unicef reported that “most [of the children killed] were under the age of ten.”

Gaddafi’s Torture/Lynching

The public sodomizing of the Libyan president Muammar Gaddafi with a “rebel” bayonet was greeted by the then U.S. Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, with the words: “We came, we saw, he died.” His murder, like the destruction of his country, was justified with a familiar big lie; he was planning “genocide” against his own people.

“We knew … that if we waited one more day,” said President Barack Obama, “Benghazi, a city the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.”

This was the fabrication of Islamist militias facing defeat by Libyan government forces. They told Reuters there would be “a real bloodbath, a massacre like we saw in Rwanda.” Reported on March 14, 2011, the lie provided the first spark for NATO’s inferno, described by David Cameron as a “humanitarian intervention.”

Secretly supplied and trained by Britain’s SAS, many of the “rebels” would become ISIS, whose latest video offering shows the beheading of 21 Coptic Christian workers seized in Sirte, the city destroyed on their behalf by NATO bombers.

For Obama, Cameron and Hollande, Gaddafi’s true crime was Libya’s economic independence and his declared intention to stop selling Africa’s greatest oil reserves in U.S. dollars. The petrodollar is a pillar of American imperial power.

Gaddafi audaciously planned to underwrite a common African currency backed by gold, establish an all-Africa bank and promote economic union among poor countries with prized resources. Whether or not this would happen, the very notion was intolerable to the U.S. as it prepared to “enter” Africa and bribe African governments with military “partnerships.”

Following NATO’s attack under cover of a Security Council resolution, Obama, wrote Garikai Chengu, “confiscated $30 billion from Libya’s Central Bank, which Gaddafi had earmarked for the establishment of an African Central Bank and the African gold backed dinar currency.”

The Kosovo Model

The “humanitarian war” against Libya drew on a model close to western liberal hearts, especially in the media. In 1999, Bill Clinton and Tony Blair sent NATO to bomb Serbia, because, they lied, the Serbs were committing “genocide” against ethnic Albanians in the secessionist province of Kosovo.

David Scheffer, U.S. ambassador-at-large for war crimes [sic], claimed that as many as “225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59? might have been murdered. Both Clinton and Blair evoked the Holocaust and “the spirit of the Second World War.”

The West’s heroic allies were the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose criminal record was set aside. The British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.

With the NATO bombing over, and much of Serbia’s infrastructure in ruins, along with schools, hospitals, monasteries and the national TV station, international forensic teams descended upon Kosovo to exhume evidence of the “holocaust.” The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing “a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines.”

A year later, a United Nations tribunal on Yugoslavia announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no genocide. The “holocaust” was a lie. The NATO attack had been fraudulent.

Expanding Markets

Behind the lie, there was serious purpose. Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent, multi-ethnic federation that had stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. Most of its utilities and major manufacturing was publicly owned. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to capture its “natural market” in the Yugoslav provinces of Croatia and Slovenia.

By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991 to lay their plans for the disastrous eurozone, a secret deal had been struck; Germany would recognize Croatia. Yugoslavia was doomed.

In Washington, the U.S. saw that the struggling Yugoslav economy was denied World Bank loans. NATO, then an almost defunct Cold War relic, was reinvented as imperial enforcer. At a 1999 Kosovo “peace” conference in Rambouillet, in France, the Serbs were subjected to the enforcer’s duplicitous tactics.

The Rambouillet accord included a secret Annex B, which the U.S. delegation inserted on the last day. This demanded the military occupation of the whole of Yugoslavia — a country with bitter memories of the Nazi occupation — and the implementation of a “free-market economy” and the privatization of all government assets. No sovereign state could sign this. Punishment followed swiftly; NATO bombs fell on a defenseless country. It was the precursor to the catastrophes in Afghanistan and Iraq, Syria and Libya, and Ukraine.

American Interventions

Since 1945, more than a third of the membership of the United Nations – 69 countries – have suffered some or all of the following at the hands of America’s modern fascism. They have been invaded, their governments overthrown, their popular movements suppressed, their elections subverted, their people bombed and their economies stripped of all protection, their societies subjected to a crippling siege known as “sanctions.” The British historian Mark Curtis estimates the death toll in the millions. In every case, a big lie was deployed.

“Tonight, for the first time since 9/11, our combat mission in Afghanistan is over.” These were opening words of Obama’s 2015 State of the Union address. In fact, some 10,000 troops and 20,000 military contractors (mercenaries) remain in Afghanistan on indefinite assignment.

“The longest war in American history is coming to a responsible conclusion,” said Obama. In fact, more civilians were killed in Afghanistan in 2014 than in any year since the UN took records. The majority have been killed — civilians and soldiers — during Obama’s time as president.

The tragedy of Afghanistan rivals the epic crime in Indochina. In his lauded and much quoted book, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, Zbigniew Brzezinski, the godfather of U.S. policies from Afghanistan to the present day, writes that if America is to control Eurasia and dominate the world, it cannot sustain a popular democracy, because “the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion. . . . Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization.” He is right.

As WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden have revealed, a surveillance and police state is usurping democracy. In 1976, Brzezinski, then President Jimmy Carter’s National Security Advisor, demonstrated his point by dealing a death blow to Afghanistan’s first and only democracy. Who knows this vital history?

Afghan’s Shining Moment

In the 1960s, a popular revolution swept Afghanistan, the poorest country on earth, eventually overthrowing the vestiges of the aristocratic regime in 1978. The People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) formed a government and declared a reform program that included the abolition of feudalism, freedom for all religions, equal rights for women and social justice for the ethnic minorities. More than 13,000 political prisoners were freed and police files publicly burned.

The new government introduced free medical care for the poorest; peonage was abolished, a mass literacy programme was launched. For women, the gains were unheard of. By the late 1980s, half the university students were women, and women made up almost half of Afghanistan’s doctors, a third of civil servants and the majority of teachers.

“Every girl,” recalled Saira Noorani, a female surgeon, “could go to high school and university. We could go where we wanted and wear what we liked. We used to go to cafes and the cinema to see the latest Indian film on a Friday and listen to the latest music. It all started to go wrong when the mujaheddin started winning. They used to kill teachers and burn schools. We were terrified. It was funny and sad to think these were the people the West supported.”

The PDPA government was backed by the Soviet Union, even though, as former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance later admitted, “there was no evidence of any Soviet complicity [in the revolution].” Alarmed by the growing confidence of liberation movements throughout the world, Brzezinski decided that if Afghanistan was to succeed under the PDPA, its independence and progress would offer the “threat of a promising example.”

On July 3, 1979, the White House secretly authorized support for tribal “fundamentalist” groups known as the mujaheddin, a program that grew to over $500 million a year in U.S. arms and other assistance. The aim was the overthrow of Afghanistan’s first secular, reformist government.

In August 1979, the U.S. Embassy in Kabul reported that “the United States’ larger interests … would be served by the demise of [the PDPA government], despite whatever setbacks this might mean for future social and economic reforms in Afghanistan.” The italics are mine.

The mujaheddin were the forebears of al-Qaeda and Islamic State. They included Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who received tens of millions of dollars in cash from the CIA. Hekmatyar’s specialty was trafficking in opium and throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil. Invited to London, he was lauded by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher as a “freedom fighter.”

Such fanatics might have remained in their tribal world had Brzezinski not launched an international movement to promote Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and so undermine secular political liberation and “destabilize” the Soviet Union, creating, as he wrote in his autobiography, “a few stirred up Muslims.”

His grand plan coincided with the ambitions of the Pakistani dictator, General Zia ul-Haq, to dominate the region. In 1986, the CIA and Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the ISI, began to recruit people from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. The Saudi multi-millionaire Osama bin Laden was one of them.

Operatives who would eventually join the Taliban and al-Qaeda, were recruited at an Islamic college in Brooklyn, New York, and given paramilitary training at a CIA camp in Virginia. This was called “Operation Cyclone.” Its success was celebrated in 1996 when the last PDPA president of Afghanistan, Mohammed Najibullah — who had gone before the UN General Assembly to plead for help — was hanged from a streetlight by the Taliban.

The “blowback” of Operation Cyclone and its “few stirred up Muslims” was September 11, 2001. Operation Cyclone became the “war on terror,” in which countless men, women and children would lose their lives across the Muslim world, from Afghanistan to Iraq, Yemen, Somalia and Syria. The enforcer’s message was and remains: “You are with us or against us.”

Threads of Fascism

The common thread in fascism, past and present, is mass murder. The American invasion of Vietnam had its “free fire zones,” “body counts” and “collateral damage.” In the province of Quang Ngai, where I reported from, many thousands of civilians (“gooks”) were murdered by the U.S.; yet only one massacre, at My Lai, is remembered.

In Laos and Cambodia, the greatest aerial bombardment in history produced an epoch of terror marked today by the spectacle of joined-up bomb craters which, from the air, resemble monstrous necklaces. The bombing gave Cambodia its own ISIS, led by Pol Pot.

Today, the world’s greatest single campaign of terror entails the execution of entire families, guests at weddings, mourners at funerals. These are Obama’s victims. According to the New York Times, Obama makes his selection from a CIA “kill list” presented to him every Tuesday in the White House Situation Room. He then decides, without a shred of legal justification, who will live and who will die. His execution weapon is the Hellfire missile carried by a pilotless aircraft known as a drone; these roast their victims and festoon the area with their remains. Each “hit” is registered on a faraway console screen as a “bugsplat.”

“For goose-steppers,” wrote the historian Norman Pollock, “substitute the seemingly more innocuous militarization of the total culture. And for the bombastic leader, we have the reformer manque, blithely at work, planning and executing assassination, smiling all the while.”

American Exceptionalism

Uniting fascism old and new is the cult of superiority. “I believe in American exceptionalism with every fiber of my being,” said Obama, evoking declarations of national fetishism from the 1930s.

As the historian Alfred W. McCoy has pointed out, it was the Hitler devotee, Carl Schmitt, who said, “The sovereign is he who decides the exception.” This sums up Americanism, the world’s dominant ideology. That it remains unrecognized as a predatory ideology is the achievement of an equally unrecognized brainwashing. Insidious, undeclared, presented wittily as enlightenment on the march, its conceit insinuates western culture.

I grew up on a cinematic diet of American glory, almost all of it a distortion. I had no idea that it was the Red Army that had destroyed most of the Nazi war machine, at a cost of as many as 13 million soldiers. By contrast, U.S. losses, including in the Pacific, were 400,000. Hollywood reversed this.

The difference now is that cinema audiences are invited to wring their hands at the “tragedy” of American psychopaths having to kill people in distant places — just as the President himself kills them. The embodiment of Hollywood’s violence, the actor and director Clint Eastwood, was nominated for an Oscar this year for his movie, American Sniper, which is about a licensed murderer and nutcase. The New York Times described it as a “patriotic, pro-family picture which broke all attendance records in its opening days.”

There are no heroic movies about America’s embrace of fascism. During the Second World War, America (and Britain) went to war against Greeks who had fought heroically against Nazism and were resisting the rise of Greek fascism. In 1967, the CIA helped bring to power a fascist military junta in Athens — as it did in Brazil and most of Latin America.

Germans and east Europeans who had colluded with Nazi aggression and crimes against humanity were given safe haven in the U.S.; many were pampered and their talents rewarded. Wernher von Braun was the “father” of both the Nazi V-2 terror bomb and the U.S. space program.

In the 1990s, as former Soviet republics, eastern Europe and the Balkans became military outposts of NATO, the heirs to a Nazi movement in Ukraine were given their opportunity. Responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews, Poles and Russians during the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, Ukrainian fascism was rehabilitated and its “new wave” hailed by the enforcer as “nationalists.”

The Ukraine Coup

This reached its apogee in 2014 when the Obama administration splashed out $5 billion on a coup against the elected government. The shock troops were neo-Nazis known as the Right Sector and Svoboda. Their leaders include Oleh Tyahnybok, who has called for a purge of the “Moscow-Jewish mafia” and “other scum,” including gays, feminists and those on the political left.

These fascists are now integrated into the Kiev coup government. The first deputy speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, Andriy Parubiy, a leader of the governing party, is co-founder of Svoboda. On Feb. 14, Parubiy announced he was flying to Washington to get “the USA to give us highly precise modern weaponry.” If he succeeds, it will be seen as an act of war by Russia.

No western leader has spoken up about the revival of fascism in the heart of Europe — with the exception of Vladimir Putin, whose people lost 22 million to a Nazi invasion that came through the borderland of Ukraine. At the recent Munich Security Conference, Obama’s Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, ranted abuse about European leaders for opposing the U.S. arming of the Kiev regime. She referred to the German Defense Minister as “the minister for defeatism.”

It was Nuland who masterminded the coup in Kiev. The wife of Robert Kagan, a leading “neo-con” luminary who was a co-founder of the Project for the New American Century, which began pushing for the invasion of Iraq in 1998. She was a foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.

Nuland’s coup in Ukraine did not go to plan. NATO was prevented from seizing Russia’s historic, legitimate, warm-water naval base in Crimea. The mostly Russian population of Crimea — illegally annexed to Ukraine by Nikita Krushchev in 1954 — voted overwhelmingly to return to Russia, as they had done in the 1990s. The referendum was voluntary, popular and internationally observed. There was no invasion.

At the same time, the Kiev regime turned on the ethnic Russian population in the east with the ferocity of ethnic cleaning. Deploying neo-Nazi militias in the manner of the Waffen-SS, they bombed and laid to siege cities and towns. They used mass starvation as a weapon, cutting off electricity, freezing bank accounts, stopping social security and pensions.

More than a million refugees fled across the border into Russia. In the western media, they became unpeople escaping “the violence” caused by the “Russian invasion.” The NATO commander, General Breedlove — whose name and actions might have been inspired by Stanley Kubrick’s Dr. Strangelove — announced that 40,000 Russian troops were “massing.” In the age of forensic satellite evidence, he offered none.

Repressing Ethnic Russians

These Russian-speaking and bilingual people of Ukraine – a third of the population – have long sought a federation that reflects the country’s ethnic diversity and is both autonomous and independent of Moscow. Most are not “separatists” but citizens who want to live securely in their homeland and oppose the power grab in Kiev. Their revolt and establishment of autonomous “states” are a reaction to Kiev’s attacks on them. Little of this has been explained to western audiences.

On May 2, 2014, in Odessa, 41 ethnic Russians were burned alive in the trade union headquarters with police standing by. The Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh hailed the massacre as “another bright day in our national history.” In the American and British media, this was reported as a “murky tragedy” resulting from “clashes” between “nationalists” (neo-Nazis) and “separatists” (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine).

The New York Times buried the story, having dismissed as Russian propaganda warnings about the fascist and anti-Semitic policies of Washington’s new clients. The Wall Street Journal damned the victims – “Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says.” Obama congratulated the junta for its “restraint.”

If Putin can be provoked into coming to their aid, his pre-ordained “pariah” role in the West will justify the lie that Russia is invading Ukraine. On Jan. 29, Ukraine’s top military commander, General Viktor Muzhemko, almost inadvertently dismissed the very basis for U.S. and EU sanctions on Russia when he told a news conference emphatically: “The Ukrainian army is not fighting with the regular units of the Russian Army.” There were “individual citizens” who were members of “illegal armed groups,” but there was no Russian invasion. This was not news.

Vadym Prystaiko, Kiev’s Deputy Foreign Minister, has called for “full scale war” with nuclear-armed Russia.

On Feb. 21, U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, a Republican from Oklahoma, introduced a bill that would authorize American arms for the Kiev regime. In his Senate presentation, Inhofe used photographs he claimed were of Russian troops crossing into Ukraine, which have long been exposed as fakes. It was reminiscent of Ronald Reagan’s fake pictures of a Soviet installation in Nicaragua, and Colin Powell’s fake evidence to the UN of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The intensity of the smear campaign against Russia and the portrayal of its president as a pantomime villain is unlike anything I have known as a reporter. Robert Parry, one of America’s most distinguished investigative journalists, who revealed the Iran-Contra scandal, wrote recently, “No European government, since Adolf Hitler’s Germany, has seen fit to dispatch Nazi storm troopers to wage war on a domestic population, but the Kiev regime has and has done so knowingly. Yet across the West’s media/political spectrum, there has been a studious effort to cover up this reality even to the point of ignoring facts that have been well established. …

“If you wonder how the world could stumble into world war three – much as it did into world war one a century ago – all you need to do is look at the madness over Ukraine that has proved impervious to facts or reason.”

Nuremberg Lessons

In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal prosecutor said of the German media: “The use made by Nazi conspirators of psychological warfare is well known. Before each major aggression, with some few exceptions based on expediency, they initiated a press campaign calculated to weaken their victims and to prepare the German people psychologically for the attack. …

“In the propaganda system of the Hitler State it was the daily press and the radio that were the most important weapons.”

In the Guardian on Feb. 2, Timothy Garton-Ash, an Oxford professor, called, in effect, for a world war. “Putin must be stopped,” said the headline. “And sometimes only guns can stop guns.” He conceded that the threat of war might “nourish a Russian paranoia of encirclement”; but that was fine. He name-checked the military equipment needed for the job and advised his readers that “America has the best kit.”

In 2003, Garton-Ash repeated the propaganda that led to the slaughter in Iraq. Saddam Hussein, he wrote, “has, as [Colin] Powell documented, stockpiled large quantities of horrifying chemical and biological weapons, and is hiding what remains of them. He is still trying to get nuclear ones.” He lauded Blair as a “Gladstonian, Christian liberal interventionist.” In 2006, he wrote, “Now we face the next big test of the West after Iraq: Iran.”

The outbursts — or as Garton-Ash prefers, his “tortured liberal ambivalence” — are not untypical of those in the transatlantic liberal elite who have struck a Faustian deal. The war criminal Blair is their lost leader.

The Guardian, in which Garton-Ash’s piece appeared, published a full-page advertisement for an American Stealth bomber. On a menacing image of the Lockheed Martin monster were the words: “The F-35. GREAT For Britain.” This American “kit” will cost British taxpayers £1.3 billion, its F-model predecessors having slaughtered across the world. In tune with its advertiser, a Guardian editorial has demanded an increase in military spending.

Once again, there is serious purpose. The rulers of the world want Ukraine not only as a missile base; they want its economy. Kiev’s new Finance Minister, Natalie Jaresko, is a former senior U.S. State Department official who was hurriedly given Ukrainian citizenship.

They want Ukraine for its abundant gas; Vice President Joe Biden’s son is on the board of Ukraine’s biggest oil, gas and fracking company. The manufacturers of GM seeds, companies such as the infamous Monsanto, want Ukraine’s rich farming soil.

Above all, they want Ukraine’s mighty neighbor, Russia. They want to Balkanize or dismember Russia and exploit the greatest source of natural gas on earth. As the Arctic ice melts, they want control of the Arctic Ocean and its energy riches, and Russia’s long Arctic land border.

Their man in Moscow used to be Boris Yeltsin, a drunk, who handed his country’s economy to the West. His successor, Putin, has re-established Russia as a sovereign nation; that is his crime.

The responsibility of the rest of us is clear. It is to identify and expose the reckless lies of warmongers and never to collude with them. It is to re-awaken the great popular movements that brought a fragile civilization to modern imperial states. Most important, it is to prevent the conquest of ourselves: our minds, our humanity, our self respect. If we remain silent, victory over us is assured, and a holocaust beckons.

John Pilger is an Australian-British journalist based in London. Pilger’s Web site is: www.johnpilger.com

SOURCE: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/02/the-rise-of-a-democratic-fascism/

NOTE: Robert Parry and ConsortiumNews allow DUers to post articles in their entirety. This excellent read is an example of why that kindness makes sense for those interested in democracy.



PS: Thank you for the encouraging words, jalan48! You grokking the situation means Justice and Democracy have a fighting chance!

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
33. The day you get drummed out of here, is the day this
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:56 PM
Jul 2015

website stops being relevant. I see who your adversaries are. They contribute nothing useful but dissension here.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
34. I think Cosby is a creepy rapist
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 10:59 PM
Jul 2015

But I didn't say that until his unsealed admission of being so came out. The evidence presented was disturbing and shockingly consistent, but everyone including the victims is entitled to a fair trial if they say they are innocent.

The Bush family and their buddies rarely bother to claim innocence.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
141. Some never get the opportunity. Remember GOP US Attorney John David R. Atchison?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:31 PM
Jul 2015

GOP had a child molester as an Assistant US Attorney for Florida.

John David R. Atchison.

The GOP father and husband who was arrested after soliciting sex online with a minor? The family man promised what he thought was the 5-year old girl's mother he wouldn' t hurt the child -- stating he'd done it before. In reality, he was corresponding with an undercover deputy in Michigan. He showed up at the airport with toys. Originally from Alabama, the guy was a riser in the Dixie GOP. Like so many of the evil ilk, after his arrest he tried suicide in jail, the second time successfully.

I wondered if he was friends with Bob Riley, Mark Fuller and the rest of the Alabama Old GOP Boys. What Metacrawler turned up:



The Strange Tale of a Pedophile in the U.S. Justice Department

Legal Schnauzer, WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 2010

The U.S. Department of Justice generated plenty of strange stories during the George W. Bush years. But one of the strangest involved John David "Roy" Atchison, an assistant U.S. attorney in Pensacola, Florida, who committed suicide after being caught in a pedophilia sting in Detroit.

Atchison's sad story has many connections to Birmingham and Alabama. And it raises this question: How did a guy with a shaky work record and a history of run-ins with the law get hired by the world's supposedly foremost crime-fighting organization? Did Atchison attain his lofty position because he had connections to powerful figures in the Alabama legal world?

Investigative journalist Margie Burns examines these questions, and much more, in a series of posts about the Atchison case at her blog, margieburns.com.

Burns begins with the actions that turned Atchison into a national figure in fall 2007:

This is not the story of a man who engaged in pedophilia for years or decades before being caught. It is the story of a man whipsawed by the strain of living up to a high-achieving family rooted in Birmingham, Ala., whose high-functioning connections assisted him for years in developing a career for which he turned out not to be suited. On Sept. 16, 2007, Assistant U.S. Attorney John David Roy Atchison, serving as a federal prosecutor in the Northern District of Florida, was arrested on credible charges of basically pedophilia. Atchison committed suicide in federal prison Oct. 5.

A dead pedophile might not sound like a tragedy. But Atchison was thought to be participating in a pedophile ring, and his death removed a useful informant from law enforcement resources. The question of how he was enabled to kill himself rather than being preserved for justice is one of the loose ends left hanging in his case.


CONTINUED 'though I wish it didn't...

http://legalschnauzer.blogspot.com/2010/09/strange-tale-of-pedophile-in-us-justice.html

[/div class="excerpt"]

Margie Burns detailed how the guy rose up through the GOP ranks, warts and all. When this is the kind of person putting people behind bars on behalf of Uncle Sam, these are worse than NAZI times. They didn't take over America.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
187. I remember the case being posted here, and the Repubs being upset about it being their team again
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:27 PM
Jul 2015

I didn't know he had "suicided," but that was awfully convenient for everyone involved.

Regarding the Nazis not taking over America, that's debatable- I know you know all about Prescott Bush, and the Military did their best to brain drain the Nazi forces as WWII drew down and the Cold War was shaping up. There are hints (or more that that?) that the real powers behind all of it simply got folded in to our system...and allowed to keep doing what they did best.

*Goes to read about the dead missing link of the south*

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
194. A lot of them settled in Huntsville, helping the Army build rockets, boosters, and what-all.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:39 AM
Jul 2015

The nastiest got jobs in Washington and assignments all around the globe.

More essential reading from the great DUer bobthedrummer:

What Cold War CIA Interrogators Learned From The NAZIS (excerpt from Operation PAPERCLIP by Annie

More history that never gets mentioned in class or on tee vee:

Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
197. NONE of this is old news, malaise. Especially to those touched by BFEE.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:29 AM
Jul 2015

Original OP from 2006: Know your BFEE: Los Amigos de Bush or "Hey, America! Wake Up and Smell the Sulfur!"

Few today remember a most heinous terrorist act: The assassinations of former Chilean ambassador Orlando Letelier and American Ronnie Karpen Moffit.



Ms. Moffit was an American citizen murdered by agents of a foreign government on U.S. soil. Her only crime was being with Orlando Letelier, whose crime was to speak out against the military coup that toppled the democratically elected Chilean government he served. Because he refused to turn over the Chilean secret police and their American contacts, these assassinations were allowed, if not sanctioned, by George Bush, then director of central intelligence and head of the CIA.

As with all things having to do with the BFEE, the world get worse. So, a reminder:

October will mark the 30th anniversary of another most heinous terrorist act: The bombing of a Cuban civilian airliner that killed 73 passengers and crew. The pilots reported the blast caused their aircraft to catch fire and they were burning up as they attempted an emergency landing. The plane crashed into the Caribbean, a few miles west of Barbados. All aboard perished, including a close friend of the Great DUer malaise.



Cubana Airlines DC-8 like the one bombed by BFEE members Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch. Both turds have been protected by Poppy and Baby Doc Bush and the CIA, which strangely has been loyal to them rather than to various presidencies before and in-between.

Here’s an excellent essay based on the facts:



The Charmed Life of a Mass Murderer

Posada Carriles and Bush's Anti-Terror Hoax

By SAUL LANDAU
Counterpunch June 9, 2005

President George W. Bush has emphasized that if one of the myriad of U.S. police agencies even suspect someone of planning, abetting or carrying out a terrorist act, he will, at a minimum, get tossed into a dark hole. Indeed, Bush has thrown the Magna Carta into the garbage heap when it comes to Muslims suspected of pernicious thoughts toward the United States.

But if suspected terrorists turn their rage toward the detested Fidel Castro, these rules don't apply.

Indeed, those who try to bomb Cuban targets, or those related to Cuba, receive special treatment. This double-standard casts a shadow over the president's commitment to fight terrorism.

For example, TV footage showed Homeland Security cops arresting Posada in mid May. But the arresting officers didn't even handcuff the Western Hemisphere's most notorious terrorist. (Remember how Bush's pal Ken "Kenny Boy" Lay ­ ENRON's CEO ­ got handcuffed?) Justice Department spokespeople said they plan to charge the foremost terrorist in the western hemisphere with "illegal entry into the United States."

The FBI has reams of files on Posada, affectionately called "Bambi" by his terrorist friends. Former FBI Special Agent Carter Cornick told New York Times reporter Tim Weiner that Posada was "up to his eyeballs" in the October 1976 destruction of a Cuban commercial airliner over Barbados. All 73 passengers and crew members died. Recently published FBI and CIA documents not only confirm Cornick's statement, but also reveal that U.S. agencies had knowledge of the plot and did not inform Cuban authorities or try to stop the bombing.

SNIP…

One wonders: Did Posada announce his illegal presence in the United States with the idea that U.S. government complicity in aiding and abetting his past acts of terrorism would protect him? U.S. authorities didn't inform Cuba or try to stop the 1976 air-bombing plot, and in 1971, as Veciana stated, the CIA made the gun that Posada's agents placed inside the camera to assassinate Castro. And Ollie North has knowledge of Posada's covert activities for U.S. intelligence as well.

CONTINUED…

http://www.counterpunch.org/landau06092005.html



[font color="red"]What ties these two events together is the involvement of George Herbert Walker Bush, as then-CIA director, in their cover-up as crimes and in the protection of their perpetrators, as in the person of one Luis Posada Carriles, Orlando Bosch and their colleagues-in-terror.[/font color]

Think about it: A murder-forgiving CIA director Bush went on to become President of the United States. Today, Bush’s son, George, acts as president. The younger Bush has used his office from Day One to protect and cover-up the crimes of his father.

That’s what Hugo Chavez was talking about when he smelled the sulfur and called Bush “The Devil.”

America needs to wake up and smell the sulfur, too. Here’s some background on the above:



LUIS POSADA CARRILES
THE DECLASSIFIED RECORD


CIA and FBI Documents Detail Career in International Terrorism; Connection to U.S.

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 153

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153 /

Don’t forget to check out Orlando Bosch, while you’re at it. GOOGLE with Jeb Bush for some interesting connections to the present day.

Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez interviewed National Security Archive’s Peter Kornbluh and Letelier’s son, Francisco:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/21/153...



Another important point to remember, is Kissinger's close association with Operation CONDOR, the assassination program run out of "The Cone" to silence democrats, liberals, union leaders, progressives, socialists, communists or anyone who stood for justice and equality.



Chile security chief was CIA informer

BBC Tuesday, 19 September, 2000, 23:24 GMT 00:24 UK

Recently declassified documents in the United States show that the former head of the secret police in Chile, Manuel Contreras, was a paid informant for the US intelligence agency, the CIA.

The report, comprising CIA documents requested by the US Congress, show that contact with Contreras began in 1974 - a year after the military coup that brought General Augusto Pinochet to power.

Contreras oversaw the much-feared security service DINA

The report adds that the contact was maintained until 1977 - a year after Contreras plotted the killing of the then Chilean Foreign Minister and foe of General Pinochet, Orlando Letelier, in Washington.

A BBC correspondent in Washington, Nick Bryant, says the documents reinforce the view that the US turned a blind eye towards political repression in Chile during the Pinochet era and that the CIA was complicit in many human rights abuses.

Pinochet's confidant

As head of the security service, DINA, Contreras became the one of the most feared men in Chile, second only to General Pinochet.

The general's iron rule was underpinned by the tactics of brutal repression that saw thousands die and thousands more flee into exile. Others disappeared or were tortured.

CONTINUED…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/932897.stm



Of course, there are even more sulferous friends than these…



Bush s Longstanding Criminal Mexican Amigos

The disturbing ties of some of George W. Bush's Latino advisors

More on Bush-Amigos links in PBS Frontline interview with Gary Jacobs


By Julie Reynolds
Research assistance by Victor Almazán and Ana Leonor Rojo

LOS AMIGOS DE BUSH

“Dime con quién andas y te diré quién eres. (Tell me who you side with and I will tell you who you are.)” – “George W. Bush for President” web site

Those who say that George W. Bush has scant knowledge of foreign affairs don't understand his family's relationship with Mexico.

If one event could be said to make that relationship visible, it had to be the state dinner given eleven years ago by President Bush for Mexico's president, Carlos Salinas. It was an elegant yet boisterous gala, where the biggest movers and shakers in Texas and Mexico congregated and celebrated. This group was to become W's Mexican legacy, a gift of ties and connections passed on from the father to his son.

SNIP…

The Mexican president had spent a long day with President Bush signing trade pacts, the precursors of NAFTA. Salinas brought his so-called Dream Team: his commerce secretary, finance minister, and his personal Machiavelli, Jose Córdoba. It would later be astounding to see, as the decade unfolded, how many of that administration's proud men and women fell shamefully from grace - some exiled, some imprisoned and some assassinated.

No one knew it then, but many at that banquet would survive to one day help young W beat a path back to the White House. There were loyal "Bushfellas" who were old friends of the family: Commerce Secretary Robert Mosbacher Sr., General Colin Powell, and George Bush Senior's ever-present friend, Secretary of State James Baker. Gary Jacobs, whose Texas bank was about to be bought by the son of Mexico's billionaire-politico Carlos Hank González, was also a guest. Tony Garza, then a young judge, is now a Bush cabinet contender. Today, all are advisors or contributors to W's campaign.

Hidden among the glitterati were two relative unknowns. They were, however, familiar to the group at hand. They were the loyal "Amigos de Bush" from San Antonio: criminal defense lawyer Roy Barrera Jr. and car dealer Ernesto Ancira Jr. In contrast to the Salinas group, the ties of Barrera and Ancira to drug cartels would remain unnoticed for another decade. Their ties to George W. would grow stronger.

CONTINUED…

GOOGLE cache:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:Th5_dq9beuYJ:www.el...

May also be at:

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/contents10,2,00.htm





Henry Kissinger and Agusto Pinochet

[font size="6"][font color="red"]“I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.” -- Henry A. Kissinger[/font color][/font size]

If Kissinger -- friends of presidents and dictators and the guy Poppy's Dim Son wanted to appoint head of the 9-11 Commission -- feels that way about democracy in Chile, what’s there to make us think he and those for whom he toils believe differently about democracy in the United States of America?

-----------------------------

Most of all: I think of you and your family and the loss you suffered from these terrorists who have led the United States to ruin -- except for their rich selves and connected cronies, of course.

Initech

(100,080 posts)
37. There's a lot of child preadators and serial adulterers popping up in the GOP lately.
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:08 PM
Jul 2015

What are they trying to tell us???

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
198. What to those who kill millions for oil and gold is abusing a child?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:41 AM
Jul 2015

Remember Roy Atchison, Republican appointed and connected ultra conservative family man and Assistant US Attorney in Florida who flew up to Detroit for a rendezvous with what he thought was a five year old girl?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026954410#post141

For reasons unknown, the guy suicided on his second try in custody.

Then there's Jerry Sandusky out of PSU and his private foundation, The Second Mile, for helping place kids in foster care. What a nightmare.

On the other side of the pond, there's the Jimmy Savile case, where the evil action was allowed, if not condoned, for decades. Guy was on the A-list for Prince Phillip, Margaret Thatcher and everybody who was anybody.

It is a sickness, these plutocrats or aristocrats develop: They believe the people of the world exist for their use and enjoyment -- including children. That doesn't get in the newspapers or on tee vee, either.

Initech

(100,080 posts)
204. I remember when the Sandusky scandal broke.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:16 AM
Jul 2015

And then later to find out the now former governor of Pennsylvania let the investigation slide... when are the convictions coming for that piece of shit?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
206. Strange how quickly the 'media' forget. Remember that nice juvie Judge in business with the prisons?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:27 AM
Jul 2015

Guy didn't work in a vacuum. Yet, the media act like he did.



Pennsylvania Judge Gets 'Life Sentence' For Prison Kickback Scheme

by Walter Pavlo
Forbes, AUG 12, 2011 @ 7:58 AM 79,895 VIEWS

Former Luzerne County (Pennsylvania) Judge Mark Ciavarella has been spending his time doing odd jobs for a car towing service while awaiting sentencing since being found guilty on felony corruption charges. His car towing days are over, and the 61-year-old judge is heading to federal prison for 28 years — this could amount to a life sentence.

His sentence brings to closure a dark time in the history of the city of Wilkes-Barre, PA, which is in Luzerne County. He was found guilty in February of racketeering for taking a $1 million kickback from the builder of for-profit prisons for juveniles. Ciavarella who left the bench over two years ago after he and another judge, Michael Conahan, were accused of sentencing youngsters to prisons they had a hand in building. Prosecutors alleged that Conahan, who pleaded guilty last year and is awaiting sentencing, and Ciavarella received kick-backs from the private company that built and maintained the new youth detention facility that replaced the older county-run center.

Ciavarella, who presided over juvenile court, sent kids to juvenile detention for crimes such as possession of drug paraphernalia, stealing a jar of nutmeg and posting web page spoofs about an assistant principal (3 months of hard time). Some of those sentenced were as young as 10 years old. A mother of one of those sentenced by judge Caivarella lashed out at him after the guilty verdict. [font color="red"]Sandy Fonzo’s son, Edward, was a promising young athlete in high school when at the age of 17 he found himself in front of judge Caivarella for possession of drug paraphernalia. With no prior convictions, the judge sentenced Edward to months in private prisons and a wilderness camp…he missed his entire senior year in high school. Edward never recovered from the experience according to his mother and in June 2010 he took his own life at the age of 23.[/font color]

Ciavarella acknowledged in a recent interview with a Wilkes-Barre investigative reporter (Joe Holden of WBRE) that he made mistakes relating to not filing accurate tax returns but that he never sentenced a child to prison when it was not warranted. Ciavarella, who testified in his own defense at trial, said as much to the jury….and the jury did not buy it.

SOURCE: http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2011/08/12/pennsylvania-judge-gets-life-sentence-for-prison-kickback-scheme/



Perhaps Big Time journalists must follow orders like the prosecutors who stopped investigating after reeling in the "Big Fish."

2naSalit

(86,647 posts)
38. K&R
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:29 PM
Jul 2015

I am glad you are here to help us learn and to confirm what some of us already knew or suspected.

I am always willing to read your posts, even while lurking.


Thanks for filling in the blanks!


Octafish

(55,745 posts)
199. Poppy Bush Strikes Gold!
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:46 AM
Jul 2015

Look at what Barrick Gold, one of Poppy Bush's favorite charities, did to The Guardian and Greg Palast.



Their crime? Telling the truth.



Poppy Strikes Gold

Sunday, April 27, 2008
Originally Posted July 9, 2003
By Greg Palast

EXCERPT...

And while the Bush family steadfastly believes that ex-felons should not have the right to vote for president, they have no objection to ex-cons putting presidents on their payroll. In 1996, despite pleas by U.S. church leaders, Poppy Bush gave several speeches (he charges $100,000 per talk) sponsored by organizations run by Rev. Sun Myung Moon, cult leader, tax cheat—and formerly the guest of the U.S. federal prison system. Some of the loot for the Republican effort in the 1997–2000 election cycles came from an outfit called Barrick Corporation.

The sum, while over $100,000, is comparatively small change for the GOP, yet it seemed quite a gesture for a corporation based in Canada. Technically, the funds came from those associated with the Canadian's U.S. unit, Barrick Gold Strike.

They could well afford it. [font color="green"]In the final days of the Bush (Senior) administration, the Interior Department made an extraordinary but little noticed change in procedures under the 1872 Mining Law, the gold rush–era act that permitted those whiskered small-time prospectors with their tin pans and mules to stake claims on their tiny plots. The department initiated an expedited procedure for mining companies that allowed Barrick to swiftly lay claim to the largest gold find in America. In the terminology of the law, Barrick could "perfect its patent" on the estimated $10 billion in ore—for which Barrick paid the U.S. Treasury a little under $10,000. Eureka![/font color]

Barrick, of course, had to put up cash for the initial property rights and the cost of digging out the booty (and the cost of donations, in smaller amounts, to support Nevada's Democratic senator, Harry Reid). Still, the shift in rules paid off big time: According to experts at the Mineral Policy Center of Washington, DC, Barrick saved—and the U.S. taxpayer lost—a cool billion or so. Upon taking office, Bill Clinton's new interior secretary, Bruce Babbitt, called Barrick's claim the "biggest gold heist since the days of Butch Cassidy." Nevertheless, because the company followed the fast-track process laid out for them under Bush, this corporate Goldfinger had Babbitt by the legal nuggets. Clinton had no choice but to give them the gold mine while the public got the shaft.

Barrick says it had no contact whatsoever with the president at the time of the rules change.(1) There was always a place in Barrick's heart for the older Bush—and a place on its payroll. In 1995, Barrick hired the former president as Honorary Senior Advisor to the Toronto company's International Advisory Board. Bush joined at the suggestion of former Canadian prime minister Brian Mulroney, who, like Bush, had been ignominiously booted from office. I was a bit surprised that the president had signed on. When Bush was voted out of the White House, he vowed never to lobby or join a corporate board. The chairman of Barrick openly boasts that granting the title "Senior Advisor" was a sly maneuver to help Bush tiptoe around this promise.

CONTINUED...

http://www.gregpalast.com/poppy-strikes-gold/



Wow. So his flock of supporters in the media and elsewhere wanted it known: George Herbert Walker Bush did do something nice when he was President. It just happened to be that it was for a rich, powerful corporation.

The story continues, in which Mr. Palast details how said gold mining company employed fascist tactics to take over the mine, part of which involved bulldozing the miners homes and mines, some with the miners still inside. Let that, uh, sink in. For his trouble in reporting the story, Barrick threatened to sue.



The Truth Buried Alive

—By Greg Palast, From The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (Penguin/Plume, 2003)

Source: UTNE Reader
April 2003 Issue

EXCERPT...

Bad news. In July 2001, in the middle of trying to get out the word of the theft of the election in Florida, [font color="red"]I was about to become the guinea pig, the test case, for an attempt by a multinational corporation to suppress free speech in the USA using British libel law. I have a U.S.-based Web site for Americans who can’t otherwise read my columns or view my BBC television reports. The gold-mining company held my English newspaper liable for aggravated damages for my publishing the story in the USA. If I did not pull the Bush-Barrick story off my U.S. Web site, my paper would face a ruinously costly fight.(1)[/font color]

Panicked, the Guardian legal department begged me to delete not just the English versions of the story but also my Spanish translation, printed in Bolivia. (Caramba!)

The Goldfingers didn’t stop there. [font color="green"]Barrick’s lawyers told our papers that I personally would be sued in the United Kingdom over Web publications of my story in America, because the Web could be accessed in Britain. The success of this legal strategy would effectively annul the U.S. Bill of Rights.[/font color] Speak freely in the USA, but if your words are carried on a U.S. Web site, you may be sued in Britain. The Declaration of Independence would be null and void, at least for libel law. Suddenly, instead of the Internet becoming a means of spreading press freedom, the means to break through censorship, it would become the electronic highway for delivering repression.

And repression was winning. InterPress Services (IPS) of Washington, DC, sent a reporter to Tanzania with Lissu. They received a note from Barrick that said if the wire service ran a story that repeated the allegations, the company would sue. IPS did not run the story.

I was worried about Lissu. On July 19, 2001, a group of Tanzanian police interest lawyers wrote the nation’s president asking for an investigation–instead, Lissu’s law partner in Dar es Salaam was arrested. The police were hunting for Lissu. They broke into his home and office and turned them upside down looking for the names of Lissu’s sources, his whereabouts and the evidence he gathered on the mine site clearance. This was more than a legal skirmish. Over the next months, demonstrations by vicims’ families were broken up by police thugs. A member of Parliament joining protesters was beaten and hospitalized. I had to raise cash quick to get Lissu out, and with him, his copies of police files with more evidence of the killings. I called Maude Barlow, the “Ralph Nader of Canada”, head of the Council of Canadians. Without hesitation, she teamed up with Friends of the Earth in Holland, raised funds and prepared a press conference–and in August tipped the story to the Globe & Mail, Canada’s national paper.

CONTINUED...

http://www.mapcruzin.com/palast-2.htm



So. Greg Palast did something very bad from the BFEE perspective: He told the truth, including the bits about the buried alive gold miners, as it happens. So, the Big Corporation sued and sued and sued. With their deep pockets, they can buy justice, judges, prime ministers, presidents and whoever and whatever else they need to turn a buck.

Like the Network executive was talking about: It's getting harder and harder for a man without a corporation to be heard these days. One day soon, no one will wonder why so few people remember democracy.

PS: Thank you for making me feel like solid gold, 2naSalit!

2naSalit

(86,647 posts)
300. You're quite welcome Octafish...
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 01:25 AM
Jul 2015

...because you are pure gold!! You're one of the DUers I pay attention to through all the muck and mire happening here.

From all the scary reality I've seen in my decades of paying attention - since JFK was shot and how that affected my elders who knew him and his family - I have been dubious of what I am being told by the MSM... I know better.

Thanks for sticking your neck out and telling it, I'm too chicken anymore because I have to survive.

The truth-tellers always get the brunt of the blunt stick for refusing to remain silent, I've had enough wounds to last a long time so I don't say much anymore, but I am thankful for those *you* who can keep on with the telling of the truth.

Bravo!!

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
40. strange days. thank you for the work you do!
Wed Jul 8, 2015, 11:34 PM
Jul 2015

and from one former journo to another, if you're not pissing someone off, you're not doing your job.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
200. The Machine: Taking the Risk out of Democracy, Corporate Propaganda vs Freedom & Liberty
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:33 AM
Jul 2015
Corporate McPravda owns the airwaves. And Corporate Tee Vee is still where most Americans get most of their information.



The Propaganda System That Has Helped Create a Permanent Overclass Is Over a Century in the Making

Pulling back the curtain on how intent the wealthiest Americans have been on establishing a propaganda tool to subvert democracy.

Wednesday, 17 April 2013 00:00
By Andrew Gavin Marshall, AlterNet | News Analysis

Where there is the possibility of democracy, there is the inevitability of elite insecurity. All through its history, democracy has been under a sustained attack by elite interests, political, economic, and cultural. There is a simple reason for this: democracy – as in true democracy – places power with people. In such circumstances, the few who hold power become threatened. With technological changes in modern history, with literacy and education, mass communication, organization and activism, elites have had to react to the changing nature of society – locally and globally.

From the late 19th century on, the “threats” to elite interests from the possibility of true democracy mobilized institutions, ideologies, and individuals in support of power. What began was a massive social engineering project with one objective: control. Through educational institutions, the social sciences, philanthropic foundations, public relations and advertising agencies, corporations, banks, and states, powerful interests sought to reform and protect their power from the potential of popular democracy.

SNIP...

The development of psychology, psychoanalysis, and other disciplines increasingly portrayed the “public” and the population as irrational beings incapable of making their own decisions. The premise was simple: if the population was driven by dangerous, irrational emotions, they needed to be kept out of power and ruled over by those who were driven by reason and rationality, naturally, those who were already in power.

The Princeton Radio Project, which began in the 1930s with Rockefeller Foundation funding, brought together many psychologists, social scientists, and “experts” armed with an interest in social control, mass communication, and propaganda. The Princeton Radio Project had a profound influence upon the development of a modern "democratic propaganda" in the United States and elsewhere in the industrialized world. It helped in establishing and nurturing the ideas, institutions, and individuals who would come to shape America’s “democratic propaganda” throughout the Cold War, a program fostered between the private corporations which own the media, advertising, marketing, and public relations industries, and the state itself.

CONTINUED...

http://truth-out.org/news/item/15784-the-propaganda-system-that-has-helped-create-a-permanent-overclass-is-over-a-century-in-the-making



Thankfully, to help spread light when the protectors of the First Amendment won't, Maria Galardin's TUC (Time of Useful Consciousness) Radio. The podcast helps explain how we got here and what we need to do to move forward, starting with putting the "Public" into Airwaves again:



Alex Carey: Corporations and Propaganda
The Attack on Democracy


The 20th century, said Carey, is marked by three historic developments: the growth of democracy via the expansion of the franchise, the growth of corporations, and the growth of propaganda to protect corporations from democracy. Carey wrote that the people of the US have been subjected to an unparalleled, expensive, 3/4 century long propaganda effort designed to expand corporate rights by undermining democracy and destroying the unions. And, in his manuscript, unpublished during his life time, he described that history, going back to World War I and ending with the Reagan era. Carey covers the little known role of the US Chamber of Commerce in the McCarthy witch hunts of post WWII and shows how the continued campaign against "Big Government" plays an important role in bringing Reagan to power.

John Pilger called Carey "a second Orwell", Noam Chomsky dedicated his book, Manufacturing Consent, to him. And even though TUC Radio runs our documentary based on Carey's manuscript at least every two years and draws a huge response each time, Alex Carey is still unknown.

Given today's spotlight on corporations that may change. It is not only the Occupy movement that inspired me to present this program again at this time. By an amazing historic coincidence Bill Moyers and Charlie Cray of Greenpeace have just added the missing chapter to Carey's analysis. Carey's manuscript ends in 1988 when he committed suicide. Moyers and Cray begin with 1971 and bring the corporate propaganda project up to date.

This is a fairly complex production with many voices, historic sound clips, and source material. The program has been used by writers and students of history and propaganda. Alex Carey: Taking the Risk out of Democracy, Corporate Propaganda VS Freedom and Liberty with a foreword by Noam Chomsky was published by the University of Illinois Press in 1995.

SOURCE: http://tucradio.org/new.html



If you find a moment, here's the first part (scroll down at the link for the second part) on Carey.

http://tucradio.org/AlexCarey_ONE.mp3

It's important for there to be more than a handful of companies providing "news." As you so well know, my esteemed colleague nashville_brook, Democracy depends on it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
203. BFEE judge Silberman compared people who say ''Bush lied America into war'' to NAZIs.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:11 AM
Jul 2015


The history shows the guy got a nice career as reward for service to the rightwing, rather than a trial he so richly deserved for treason.



Federal Appeals Judge Compares People Who Say Bush Lied To Rise Of Nazis

A federal appeals judge wrote in a column published on Sunday that people who accuse former President George W. Bush of lying about the Iraq War are peddling myths like those that led to the rise of Hitler.

Laurence H. Silberman, a federal appellate judge appointed by President Ronald Reagan, wrote in the Wall Street Journal that the idea the Bush administration "lied us into Iraq" has gone from "antiwar slogan to journalistic fact."

"It is one thing to assert, then or now, that the Iraq war was ill-advised," he wrote. "It is quite another to make the horrendous charge that President Bush lied to or deceived the American people about the threat from Saddam."

After re-litigating the case for invading Iraq, Silberman wrote that the charge could have "potentially dire consequences."

"I am reminded of a similarly baseless accusation that helped the Nazis come to power in Germany: that the German army had not really lost World War I, that the soldiers instead had been 'stabbed in the back' by politicians," he wrote.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/laurence-silberman-bush-lied-nazis

via kpete: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6201723



Robert Parry in 2009:



Neocon Judge's History of Cover-ups

Laurence Silberman, a U.S. Appeals Court judge and a longtime neoconservative operative – part of what the Iran-Contra special prosecutor called “the strategic reserves” for convicted Reagan administration operatives in the 1980s – is back playing a similar role for the Bush-43 administration.

by Robert Parry
ConsortiumNews.com, September 23, 2009

On Sept. 11, the eighth anniversary of the terror attacks on New York and Washington, Silberman issued a 2-to-1 opinion dismissing a lawsuit against the private security firm, CACI International, brought by Iraqi victims of torture and other abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.

Silberman declared that CACI was immune from prosecution because its employees were responding to U.S. military commands. The immunity ruling blocked legal efforts by 212 Iraqis, who suffered directly at Abu Ghraib or were the widows of men who died, to exact some accountability from CACI employees who allegedly assisted in the torture of prisoners.

"During wartime, where a private service contractor is integrated into combatant activities over which the military retains command authority, a tort claim arising out of the contractor's engagement in such activities shall be preempted," Silberman wrote.

But Silberman is not a dispassionate judge when it comes to the crimes of Republicans committed to advance the neocon cause.

In the 1980s, Silberman played behind-the-scenes roles in helping Ronald Reagan gain the White House; he helped formulate hard-line intelligence policies; he encouraged right-wing media attacks on liberals; and he protected the flanks of Reagan’s operatives who were caught breaking the law.

Iran-Contra special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh, a Republican himself, counted Silberman as one of "a powerful band of Republican [judicial] appointees [who] waited like the strategic reserves of an embattled army," determined to prevent any judgments against Reagan’s operatives who broke the law in the arms-for-hostage scandal.

In his 1997 memoir, Firewall, Walsh depicted Silberman as a leader of that partisan band, even recalling how Silberman had berated Judge George MacKinnon, also a Republican, who led the panel which had picked Walsh to be the special prosecutor.

"At a D.C. circuit conference, he [Silberman] had gotten into a shouting match about independent counsel with Judge George MacKinnon," Walsh wrote. "Silberman not only had hostile views but seemed to hold them in anger."

In 1990, after Walsh had secured a difficult conviction of former White House aide Oliver North for offenses stemming from the Iran-Contra scandal, Silberman teamed up with another right-wing judge, David Sentelle, to overturn North’s conviction in a sudden outburst of sympathy for defendant rights.

Trashing Anita Hill

Less publicly, in 1991, Silberman also went to bat for the U.S. Supreme Court nomination of Clarence Thomas, working with right-wing operatives to destroy the reputation of Anita Hill, a former Thomas employee who testified about his crude sexual harassment.

Author David Brock, then a well-paid right-wing hatchet man who published what he later admitted were scurrilous attacks on Hill, described the support and encouragement he received from Silberman and Silberman’s wife, Ricky. Even after Thomas had won Senate confirmation, Silberman still was pushing attack lines against Hill, Brock wrote in his book, Blinded by the Right.

While George H.W. Bush’s White House slipped Brock a psychiatric opinion that Hill suffered from “erotomania,” Silberman met with Brock to suggest even more colorful criticism of Hill.

“Silberman speculated that Hill was a lesbian ‘acting out’,” Brock wrote. “Besides, Silberman confided, Thomas would never have asked Hill for dates: She had bad breath.”

After Brock published a book-length assault on Hill, called The Real Anita Hill, the Silbermans and other prominent conservatives joined a celebration at the Embassy Row Ritz-Carlton, Brock wrote, noting that also in attendance was Judge Sentelle.

But Silberman’s anything-goes approach to promoting – and protecting – right-wing control of the government dated back even further, to his key role as a foreign-policy and intelligence adviser to Ronald Reagan’s 1980 campaign.

During Campaign 1980, Silberman was a senior figure in what was then a fast-rising neoconservative faction that saw Reagan’s victory – and the defeat of President Jimmy Carter – as vital to expand U.S. military power, to confront the Soviet Union aggressively and to relieve pressure on Israel for a peace deal with the Palestinians.

More than a decade later, congressional investigators discovered that Silberman was assigned to secretive Reagan campaign operations collecting intelligence on what President Carter was doing to secure the release of 52 American hostages then held in Iran.

On April 20, 1980, the Reagan campaign created a group of foreign policy experts known as the Iran Working Group. The operation was run by Richard Allen, Fred Ikle and Silberman, the congressional investigators discovered.

After Reagan’s nomination in July, his campaign merged with that of his vice presidential running mate, George H.W. Bush, who had enlisted many ex-CIA officers who were loyal to Bush as a former CIA director.

October Surprise Obsession

The general election campaign assembled a strategy team, known as the “October Surprise Group,” which was ordered to prepare for “any last-minute foreign policy or defense-related event, including the release of the hostages, that might favorably impact President Carter in the November election,” according to a House Task Force that in 1992 investigated allegations of Republican interference in Carter’s hostage negotiations.

“Originally referred to as the ‘Gang of Ten,’” the Task Force report said the “October Surprise Group” consisted of Allen, Ikle, Charles M. Kupperman, Thomas H. Moorer, Eugene V. Rostow, William R. Van Cleave, John R. Lehman Jr., Robert G. Neumann, Seymour Weiss – and Silberman.

While that reference made it into the Task Force’s final report in January 1993, another part was deleted, which said: “According to members of the ‘October Surprise’ group, the following individuals also participated in meetings although they were not considered ‘members’ of the group: Michael Ledeen, Richard Stillwell, William Middendorf, Richard Perle, General Louis Walt and Admiral James Holloway.”

Deleted from the final report also was a section of the draft describing how the ex-CIA personnel who had worked for Bush’s campaign became the nucleus of the Republican intelligence operation that monitored Carter’s Iran-hostage negotiations for the Reagan-Bush team.

“The Reagan-Bush campaign maintained a 24-hour Operations Center, which monitored press wires and reports, gave daily press briefings and maintained telephone and telefax contact with the candidate’s plane,” the draft report read. “Many of the staff members were former CIA employees who had previously worked on the Bush campaign or were otherwise loyal to George Bush.” (I discovered the unpublished portions of Task Force’s report when I gain access to its files in late 1994.)

Another deletion involved a Sept. 16, 1980, meeting ordered by Reagan’s campaign director William Casey, who had become obsessed over the possibility of Carter pulling off an October Surprise release of the hostages.

On that date, Casey met with senior campaign officials Edwin Meese, Bill Timmons and Richard Allen about the “Persian Gulf Project,” according to an unpublished section of the House Task Force report and Allen’s notes. Two other participants at the meeting, according to Allen’s notes, were Michael Ledeen and Noel Koch.

That same day, Iran’s acting foreign minister Sadegh Ghotbzadeh was quoted as citing Republican interference on the hostages. “Reagan, supported by [former Secretary of State Henry] Kissinger and others, has no intention of resolving the problem,” Ghotbzadeh said. “They will do everything in their power to block it.”

Exactly what the Reagan-Bush “October Surprise” team did remains something of a historical mystery.

About two dozen witnesses – including former Iranian officials and international intelligence figures – have claimed the Republican contacts undercut Carter’s hostage negotiations, though others insist that the initiatives were simply ways to gather information about Carter’s desperate bid to free the hostages before the election. [For the most thorough account of the “October Surprise” case, see Robert Parry’s Secrecy & Privilege.]

The L’Enfant Plaza Mystery

One of the many unanswered questions about the October Surprise mystery revolved around a meeting involving Laurence Silberman and an Iranian emissary at the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel in Washington in September or early October 1980.

Years later, an Iranian arms dealer named Houshang Lavi claimed to be the emissary who met with Silberman, Allen and Robert McFarlane, who was then an aide to Sen. John Tower, R-Texas. Lavi said the meeting on Oct. 2 dealt with the possibility of trading arms to Iran for release of the hostages – and was arranged by Silberman.

Silberman, Allen and McFarlane acknowledged that a meeting happened, but they insisted they had no recollection of the emissary’s name nor who he was.

In 1990, I interviewed a testy Richard Allen about the meeting for a PBS Frontline documentary. Allen said he reluctantly went to the meeting, which he said was proposed by McFarlane. Allen said he took along Silberman as a witness.

“So Larry Silberman and I got on the subway and we went down to the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel where I met McFarlane and there were many people milling about. We sat at a table in the lobby. It was around the lunch hour. I was introduced to this very obscure character whose name I cannot recall. …

“The individual who was either an Egyptian or an Iranian or could have been an Iranian living in Egypt – and his idea was that he had the capacity to intervene, to deliver the hostages to the Reagan forces. Now, I took that at first to mean that he was able to deliver the hostages to Ronald Reagan, candidate for the presidency of the United States, which was absolutely lunatic. And I said so. I believe I said, or Larry did, ‘we have one President at a time. That’s the way it is.’

“So this fellow continued with his conversation. I was incredulous that McFarlane would have ever brought a guy like this or placed any credibility in a guy like this. Just absolutely incredulous, and so was Larry Silberman. This meeting lasted maybe 20 minutes, 25 minutes. So that’s it. There’s no need to continue this meeting. …

“Larry and I walked out. And I remember Larry saying, ‘Boy, you better write a memorandum about this. This is really spaceship stuff.’ And it, of course, set my opinion very firmly about Bud McFarlane for having brought this person to me in the first place.”

‘Swarthy’ Emissary

Allen described the emissary as “stocky and swarthy, dark-complected,” but otherwise “non-descript.” Allen added that the man looked like a “person from somewhere on the Mediterranean littoral. How about that?”

Allen said this Egyptian or Iranian “must have given a name at the time, must have.” But Allen couldn’t recall it. He also said he made no effort to check out the man’s position or background before agreeing to the meeting.

“Did you ask McFarlane, who is this guy?” I asked Allen.

“I don’t recall having asked him, no,” Allen responded.

“I guess I don’t understand why you wouldn’t say, ‘Is this guy an Iranian, is he someone you’ve known for a while?’” I pressed.

“Well, gee, I’m sorry that you don’t understand,” Allen lashed back. “I really feel badly for you. It’s really too bad you don’t understand. But that’s your problem, not mine.”

“But wouldn’t you normally ask that kind of background question?”

“Not necessarily,” Allen said. “McFarlane wanted me to meet a guy and this guy was going to talk about the hostages. I met plenty of people during that period of time who wanted to talk to me about the hostages. … This was no different from anybody else I would meet on this subject.”

“It obviously turned out to be different from most people you’ve met on the subject,” I interjected.

“”Oh, it turned out to be because this guy is the centerpiece of some sort of great conspiracy web that has been spun,” Allen snapped.

“Well, were there many people who offered to deliver the hostages to Ronald Reagan?” I asked.

“No, this one was particularly different, but I didn’t know that before I went to the meeting, you understand.”

“Did you ask McFarlane what on earth this guy was going to propose?”

“I don’t think I did in advance, no.”

What also was unusual about this meeting was what Allen and Silberman did not do afterwards. Though Allen said that he and Silberman recognized the sensitivity of the approach, neither of Reagan’s foreign policy advisers contacted the Carter administration or reported the offer to law enforcement.

Defying Logic

It also defied logic that seasoned operatives like Allen and Silberman would have agreed to a meeting with an emissary from a hostile power without having done some due-diligence about who the person was and what his bona fides were.

Iranian arms dealer Lavi later claimed to be the mysterious emissary. And government documents revealed that Lavi made a similar approach to the independent presidential campaign of John Anderson, although Anderson’s campaign – unlike Allen and Silberman – promptly informed the CIA and State Department.

For his part, Silberman denied any substantive discussion with the mysterious emissary but refused to discuss the meeting in any detail. He did insist that he was out of town on Oct. 2, the date cited by Lavi, but Silberman wouldn’t provide a list of dates when he was in Washington during the fall of 1980.

Though purportedly having arranged the meeting, McFarlare also insisted that he couldn’t recall the identity of the emissary.

Later, when a Senate panel conducted a brief inquiry into whether the Republicans interfered with Carter’s hostage negotiations, a truculent Allen testified – and brought along a memo that he claimed represented his contemporaneous recollections of the L’Enfant Plaza meeting.

However, the memo, dated Sept. 10, 1980, flatly contradicted the previous accounts from Allen, Silberman and McFarlane. It described a meeting arranged by Mike Butler, another Tower aide, with McFarlane only joining in later as the pair told Allen about a meeting they had had with a Mr. A.A. Mohammed, a Malaysian who operated out of Singapore.

“This afternoon, by mutual agreement, I met with Messrs. Mohammed, Butler and McFarlane. I also took Larry Silberman along to the meeting,” Allen wrote in the memo.

According to the memo, Mohammed presented a scheme for returning the Shah of Iran’s son to the country as “a figurehead monarch” which would be accompanied by a release of the U.S. hostages. Though skeptical of the plan, “both Larry and I indicated that we would be pleased to hear whatever additional news Mr. Mohammed might be able to turn up, and I suggested that that information be communicated via a secure channel,” the memo read.

Nearly every important detail was different both in how the meeting was arranged and its contents. Gone was the proposal to release the hostages to candidate Reagan, gone was the abrupt cutoff, gone was the Iranian or Egyptian – some guy from the “Mediterranean littoral” – replaced by a Malaysian businessman whose comments were welcomed along with future contacts “via a secure channel.” The memo didn’t even mention the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel, nor was McFarlane the organizer.

A reasonable conclusion might be that Allen’s memo was about an entirely different meeting, which would suggest that Republican contacts with Iranian emissaries were more numerous than previously admitted and that Silberman was more of a regular player.

Also, Silberman, McFarlane and Butler – when questioned by the House Task Force investigating the issue in 1992 – disputed Allen’s new version of the L’Enfant Plaza tale. They claimed no recollection of the A.A. Mohammed discussion.

Nevertheless, the House Task Force, in its determination to turn the page on the complex October Surprise issue, accepted Allen’s memo as the final answer to the L’Enfant Plaza question and pressed ahead with a broader rejection of any wrongdoing by Republicans – even though that required concealing a host of incriminating documents. [See Secrecy & Privilege.]

Tantalizing Clue

The House Task Force also turned a blind eye to another tantalizing clue related to the L’Enfant Plaza mystery. Lavi’s lawyer, former CIA counsel Mitchell Rogovin, provided me a page of his notes from that time period.

Rogovin, who was an adviser to the John Anderson campaign, wrote on his calendar entry for Sept. 29, 1980, a summary of Lavi’s plan to trade weapons for the hostages. After that, Rogovin recorded a telephone contact with senior CIA official John McMahon to discuss Lavi’s plan and to schedule a face-to-face meeting with a CIA representative on Oct. 2.

The next entry, however, was stunning. It read, “Larry Silberman – still very nervous/will recommend … against us this P.M. I said $250,000 – he said why even bother.”

When I called Rogovin about this notation, he said it related to a loan that the Anderson campaign was seeking from Crocker National Bank where Silberman served as legal counsel. The note meant that Silberman was planning to advise the bank officers against the loan, Rogovin said.

I asked Rogovin if he might have mentioned Lavi’s hostage plan to Silberman, who was in the curious position of being a senior Reagan adviser and weighing in on a loan to an independent campaign that was viewed as siphoning off votes from Carter. (Crocker did extend a line of credit to Anderson.)

“There was no discussion of the Lavi proposal,” Rogovin insisted. But Rogovin acknowledged that Silberman was a friend from the Ford administration where both men had worked on intelligence issues, Rogovin from the CIA and Silberman at the Justice Department. Later, Rogovin and Silberman became next-door neighbors and bought a boat together.

In a normal investigation, such coincidences would strain credulity, especially given Lavi’s claim that he took part in a meeting with Republicans at the L’Enfant Plaza on Oct. 2, the same day that he talked with a CIA representative. Lavi also claimed that Silberman had arranged the meeting, which would make sense given Rogovin’s personal ties to Silberman.

However, as on a host of other compelling leads, the House Task Force chose to look the other way.

Reagan’s Victory

On Nov. 4, 1980, with Carter unable to free the hostages and Americans humiliated by the year-long ordeal with Iran, Ronald Reagan won the presidency in a landslide.

For his loyal service in the campaign, the neoconservative Silberman was put in charge of the transition team’s intelligence section. The team prepared a report attacking the CIA’s analytical division for noting growing weaknesses in the Soviet Union, a position despised by the neocons because it undercut their case for a costly expansion of the Pentagon’s budget.

Silberman’s transition team accused the CIA’s Directorate of Intelligence of “an abject failure” to foresee a supposedly massive Soviet buildup of strategic weapons and “the wholesale failure” to comprehend the sophistication of Soviet propaganda.

“These failures are of such enormity,” the transition report said, “that they cannot help but suggest to any objective observer that the agency itself is compromised to an unprecedented extent and that its paralysis is attributable to causes more sinister than incompetence.”

In other words, Silberman’s transition team was implying that CIA analysts who didn’t toe the neoconservative line must be Soviet agents. Even anti-Soviet hardliners like the CIA’s Robert Gates recognized the impact that the incoming administration’s hostility had on the CIA analysts.

“That the Reaganites saw their arrival as a hostile takeover was apparent in the most extraordinary transition period of my career,” Gates wrote in his memoir, From the Shadows. “The reaction inside the Agency to this litany of failure and incompetence” from the transition team “was a mix of resentment and anger, dread and personal insecurity.”

Amid rumors that the transition team wanted to purge several hundred top analysts, career officials feared for their jobs, especially those considered responsible for assessing the Soviet Union as a declining power rapidly falling behind the West in technology and economics.

According to some intelligence sources, Silberman expected to get the job of CIA director and flew into a rage when Reagan gave the job to his campaign director William Casey, who also was tied to the October Surprise operations. (The U.S. hostages in Iran were released immediately upon Ronald Reagan taking the oath of office on Jan. 20, 1981.)

Silberman’s consolation prize was to be named a judge on the powerful U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, where he helped frustrate the Iran-Contra investigation by overturning Oliver North’s conviction in 1990 and to this day is a defender of the neocons’ foreign policy -- as witnessed by his Sept. 11, 2009, ruling blocking civil lawsuits against U.S. government contractors implicated in torturing Iraqis.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Neck Deep: The Disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush, was written with two of his sons, Sam and Nat, and can be ordered at neckdeepbook.com. His two previous books, Secrecy & Privilege: The Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq and Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth' are also available there. Or go to Amazon.com.

To comment at Consortiumblog, click here. (To make a blog comment about this or other stories, you can use your normal e-mail address and password. Ignore the prompt for a Google account.) To comment to us by e-mail, click here. To donate so we can continue reporting and publishing stories like the one you just read, click here.


SOURCE w.links: https://consortiumnews.com/2009/092209.html



PS: You honor me, rwsanders. Thank you!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
242. Banksters plus secret inside information is Wall Street on the Potomac.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:39 PM
Jul 2015

Explains thes need for NSA Domestic Spy Ops and related sundry FASCISM

Secret police, spying on everyone.

Know who said what to whom.

Operate under secret laws, in secret and unaccountable.

Wars without end make them ever more powerful.

Their banksters hide trillions in loot offshore,

We don't even know all their names.

So we can't talk about them.

And they hold the most wealth and power ever wielded.

And no one voted them in.

Most importantly: Thank you, JEB. Your friendship means the world to me. And right back at you!

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
45. Same here
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:30 AM
Jul 2015

Innocent until proven guilty.

But when it comes to the BFEE, the whole world has seen the guilt and no innocence.

They should be tried in court just like anyone else.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
256. That is all I want.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:11 PM
Jul 2015

Seeing how Corporate McPravda has no interest in pursuing the traitors, warmongers and mass murderers, we have to post on DU all these years.

What's the word for that thing we need? Ah, yes. "Justice."

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
257. BFEE think they're above the law, which is different than just breaking it.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:56 PM
Jul 2015


Using the powers of government and Wall Street is asking a lot for anyone, let alone Abe Lincoln and George Washington types, which increasingly are Democrats, as evinced by the GOP field any recent election year, and your 2016 bumper sticker. We need integrity and excellence, and other values and things that can stand the light of day.

Love you too from way back, JDPriestly; and your 2016 bumper sticker, too.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)
47. Well done!
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:43 AM
Jul 2015

Understanding BFEE is one of those fundamental things that all political junkies should know. Bartcop and former Bartcopers like yourself educated me back in the day (though I despised dubya from day one).

Thx.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
259. You gotta go BFEE to get along in Iraq. Look who they sent to run the war.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:16 PM
Jul 2015


Ties to GOP Trumped Know-How Among Staff Sent to Rebuild Iraq

By Rajiv Chandrasekaran
Washington Post Staff Writer, Sunday, September 17, 2006

Adapted from "Imperial Life in the Emerald City," by Rajiv Chandrasekaran, copyright Knopf 2006

After the fall of Saddam Hussein's government in April 2003, the opportunity to participate in the U.S.-led effort to reconstruct Iraq attracted all manner of Americans -- restless professionals, Arabic-speaking academics, development specialists and war-zone adventurers. But before they could go to Baghdad, they had to get past Jim O'Beirne's office in the Pentagon.

To pass muster with O'Beirne, a political appointee who screens prospective political appointees for Defense Department posts, applicants didn't need to be experts in the Middle East or in post-conflict reconstruction. What seemed most important was loyalty to the Bush administration.

O'Beirne's staff posed blunt questions to some candidates about domestic politics: Did you vote for George W. Bush in 2000? Do you support the way the president is fighting the war on terror? Two people who sought jobs with the U.S. occupation authority said they were even asked their views on Roe v. Wade .

Many of those chosen by O'Beirne's office to work for the Coalition Provisional Authority, which ran Iraq's government from April 2003 to June 2004, lacked vital skills and experience. A 24-year-old who had never worked in finance -- but had applied for a White House job -- was sent to reopen Baghdad's stock exchange. The daughter of a prominent neoconservative commentator and a recent graduate from an evangelical university for home-schooled children were tapped to manage Iraq's $13 billion budget, even though they didn't have a background in accounting.

The decision to send the loyal and the willing instead of the best and the brightest is now regarded by many people involved in the 3 1/2 -year effort to stabilize and rebuild Iraq as one of the Bush administration's gravest errors...

MORE via the great DUer The Backlash Cometh:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/16/AR2006091600193.html



I know they haven't been proven guilty in a court of law, which is why I bother to point it out, come to think of it.

Thank you infinitely for helping carry the load all these years, Enthusiast.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
270. I only wish we could get justice.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:23 PM
Jul 2015

That and expose these miscreants for their crimes to the American people.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
269. That is the fake journalist Jeff Gannon aka The Cannon, on-call 24/7.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:58 PM
Jul 2015


Bush couldn't keep his hands or, ah, eyes off the guy.



For being a fake reporter I don't remember much he's written.

I do remember what you've contributed, Hotler! Thank you!

Hotler

(11,425 posts)
288. There is a movie out about Johnny Gosh aka Jeff Gannon.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 03:27 PM
Jul 2015

John DeCamp told this writer "I believe Johnny Gosch and Jeff Gannon are one and the same person--but I am not in a position to know positively."

Film chronicles Johnny Gosch's mother’s search for the truth (kidnapped 33 years ago)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6940913
You might have seen this and I must be talking in circles.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
50. KnR! Looky here...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:48 AM
Jul 2015

Shrub does it again - charges $100K for charity speech for injured Iraq/Afghanistan vets...

WHAT. AN. IDIOT. Has he no shame???

http://news.yahoo.com/help-us-veterans-charity-george-w-bush-charged-225504539.html

Just keep your posts coming, ignore the ignorant. Lots of love here for you.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
289. Bush gave coin to Goldstar mother and said: ''Don't go selling it on e-Bay.''
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 11:15 AM
Jul 2015

The little turd from Crawford was sore busy with his wit when he gave his ''commemorative coin'' to Goldstar mother and says: "Don't go selling it on eBay."



The guy said that in the White House to a woman whose son died in Iraq for no reason Bush or anyone ever gave to the American people.

The great DUer UTUSN noted the moment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1828225

Maybe one day someone at a Veterans Forum asks the guy about it to his face. They need to know about it. Thanks for sharing the truth, Holly_Hobby.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
291. The entire family reeks of Psychopathy on steroids
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jul 2015

They have no remorse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

That wiki page needs an asterisk at the bottom, *See BFEE

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
292. * ''No WMDs here.''
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:38 PM
Jul 2015

It is psychopathy. Bartcop used to call George W Bush the ''Giggling Mass Murderer.''

Smirko McCokespoon as unitary executive warmonger JOKED that he couldn find weapons of mass destruction anywhere.



Of course, Bush had called off the drones to track bin Laden BEFORE 9/11.

Nothing about that makes it on Fox Noise or the rest of Corporate McPravda.


Octafish

(55,745 posts)
290. Hard to tell who's spying on whom in that shot.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 11:21 AM
Jul 2015

Kennebunkport, July 30, 1983: Bill Clinton, George Bush & George Wallace.



Wallace and his third wife, the former Lisa Taylor, meet with Vice President George Bush and Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton at a lobster bake at Bush's residence at Kennebunkport, Maine, July 30, 1983. The third Mrs. Wallace, whom the governor married in 1981, was 30 years his junior and half of a country-western singing duo, Mona and Lisa, who had performed during his campaign in 1968.

CREDIT: AP/Birmingham Post

SOURCE: http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/george-wallace/13/

Michael Beschloss, my mom's favorite historian, says it's genuine: https://twitter.com/beschlossdc/status/275941914182828033

George Wallace did all he could to oppose President Kennedy and his administration's policy to integrate public schools, including the University of Alabama.

Something else important to know: Wallace’s running mate in 1968 was Gen. Curtis LeMay, who exhibited insubordination to President Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis. President Kennedy, former CIA analyst Ray McGovern noted, exhibited signs of stress over the possibility of a military coup.

When it comes to the three fellahs in that picture, I will go with Bill Clinton. I think the up-and-coming Boy Governor may have been establishing good relations with the other side. Otherwise, it shows why he can work so close and effectively with the likes of Phil Gramm. And that makes me sore sad.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
295. Key to present day: Secret Service didn't like African Americans in 1963. Ask Agent Abraham Bolden.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jul 2015

Former U.S. Secret Service Agent Abraham BOLDEN was the first African American Secret Service agent to serve in the White House, personally appointed and literally hand-picked by President John F. Kennedy to the White House detail. Agent Abraham Bolden reported overt racism by his fellow agents and outright hostility toward the "n... loving president," quoting fellow Secret Service agents on the JFK detail.

In addition to enduring all manner of personal indignities, he was concerned at the lack of professionalism in those assigned to protect the president and reported his concerns. He was told, "OK. Thanks" by his superiors. When the problems weren't addressed, Bolden requested transfer back to the Secret Service office in Chicago.



Abraham Bolden speaks at JFK Lancer.



The story of a man who told the truth:



After 45 Years, a Civil Rights Hero Waits for Justice

Thom Hartmann
June 12, 2009 11:52 AM

A great miscarriage of justice has kept most Americas from learning about a Civil Rights pioneer who worked with President John F. Kennedy. But there is finally a way for citizens to not only right that wrong, but bring closure to the most tragic chapter of American presidential history.

After an outstanding career in law enforcement, Abraham Bolden was appointed by JFK to be the first African American presidential Secret Service agent, where he served with distinction. He was part of the Secret Service effort that prevented JFK's assassination in Chicago, three weeks before Dallas. But Bolden was framed by the Mafia and arrested on the very day he went to Washington to tell the Warren Commission staff about the Chicago attempt against JFK.

Bolden was sentenced to six years in prison, despite glaring problems with his prosecution. His arrest resulted from accusations by two criminals Bolden had sent to prison. In Bolden's first trial, an apparently biased judge told the jury that Bolden was guilty, even before they began their deliberations. Though granted a new trial because of that, the same problematic judge was assigned to oversee Bolden's second trial, which resulted in his conviction. Later, the main witness against Bolden admitted committing perjury against him. A key member of the prosecution even took the fifth when asked about the perjury. Yet Bolden's appeals were denied, and he had to serve hard time in prison, and today is considered a convicted felon.

After the release of four million pages of JFK assassination files in the 1990s, it became clear that Bolden -- and the official secrecy surrounding the Chicago attempt against JFK -- were due to National Security concerns about Cuba, that were unknown to Bolden, the press, Congress, and the public not just in 1963, but for the next four decades.

SNIP...

Abraham Bolden paid a heavy price for trying to tell the truth about events involving the man he was sworn to protect -- JFK -- that became mired in National Security concerns. Bolden still lives in Chicago, and has never given up trying to clear his name.

Will Abraham Bolden live to finally see the justice so long denied to him?

CONTINUED...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-hartmann/after-45-years-a-civil-ri_b_213834.html



After the assassination, he went to Washington on his own dime and reported what he saw to the Warren Commission. For his trouble -- and despite an exemplary record as a Brinks detective, Illinois State Trooper, and Secret Service agent -- Bolden was framed by the government using a paid informant's admitted perjury and spent a long time in prison. The government also drugged him and put him into psychiatric hospitals.His real crime was telling the truth.

Americans know the Truth: the country hasn't been the same since Nov. 22, 1963. President Kennedy kept the nation out of Vietnam and started toward the moon. Imagine what the New Frontier could have become for us today? Certainly would not be a time where "money trumps peace."

You are most welcome, azmom! Thank you for caring about what and whom afflict our nation.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
296. Corruption Touched CIA’s Covert Operations
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 03:03 PM
Jul 2015

Someone doesn't like me mentioning this history, annabanana. It's almost a mystery why.



Above is a picture of the wine locker at the Capital Grille that defense contractor Brent R. Wilkes shared with Kyle Dusty Foggo when Foggo was the executive director of the CIA and illegally steering contracts to Wilkes. Wilkes paid for many expensive meals for Foggo at the restaurant. (Photo by Jerry Kammer)

No sacrifice is too great when it comes to defending dinner. I mean, democracy.



Corruption Touched CIA’s Covert Operations

by Marcus Stern
ProPublica, Feb. 25, 2009, 12 a.m.

Paramilitary agents for the CIA’s super-secret Special Activities Division, or SAD, perform raids, ambushes, abductions and other difficult chores overseas, including infiltrating countries to “light up” targets from the ground for air-to-ground missile strikes. This week the government acknowledged for the first time that some of SAD’s sensitive air operations were swept up in a fraud conspiracy that reached the highest levels of the CIA and cost the government $40 million.

That information was contained in a series of court filings released in advance of the long-awaited sentencing of Kyle Dustin “Dusty” Foggo, the disgraced former No. 3 official at the CIA.

One remarkable affidavit came from a leader of SAD, a branch of the CIA’s National Clandestine Service, which handles covert actions. It indicates that Foggo forced SAD to use a shell company set up by defense contractor Brent R. Wilkes to handle its sensitive air operations, even though Wilkes and his company had no experience in clandestine aviation operations.

SNIP...

The documents also argue that Wilkes and Foggo tried to incorporate the military’s need for armored vehicles into an array of contracts that involved not only the CIA’s sensitive air operations but also water for troops in Iraq. Wilkes’ and Foggo’s deals—during which they hid their long, personal friendship from other government officials—included markups of up to 60 percent on the goods and services they sold the CIA.

CONTINUED...

http://www.propublica.org/article/corruption-touched-cias-covert-operations



CIA should be the BFEE's private army.

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
299. I wonder Octa..
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 10:17 PM
Jul 2015

do you ever feel the need to law low?

those who tell so much truth, so often, sometimes do . .

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
63. Thank you very much. Bookmarking.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:03 AM
Jul 2015

And thank you for defending the law.

(Yes, I'm convinced Cosby did it. No, he'll probably never be convicted of anything, and therefore is not a criminal under the law. Sometimes things work out that way, unfortunately. But I'd rather have that than lynch mobs. However, I do hope civil suits take tons of his dough.)

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
298. Thank you, SusanCalvin. I agree 100-percent.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 03:18 PM
Jul 2015

Based on what his accusers report, the guy is guilty. Until that's proven in court though, he's a suspect. Going from some of what I've read lately, all U.S. high schools should make U.S. civics a required class. Logic, too, as saying some is accused doesn't mean the same as he's innocent or doesn't deserve investigation.

If We the People don't care enough about the Bill of Rights, the BFEE will do all they can to help us forget it ever existed, making their work to destroy it that much easier.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
302. Richard Nixon's Blueprint for the 21st Century US
Tue Jul 14, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jul 2015

Tuesday, 14 July 2015 00:00
By Tom Engelhardt, TomDispatch | Book Review

Let me give you a reason that's anything but historical for reading Tim Weiner's remarkable new book, One Man Against the World: The Tragedy of Richard Nixon. Mind you, with the last of the secret Nixon White House tapes finally made public some 40 years after the first of them were turned over to courts, prosecutors, and Congress, this will undoubtedly be the ultimate book on that president's reign of illegality.

SNIP...


Read Weiner's new book - he's also the author of a classic history of the CIA and another on the FBI - and it turns out that the president who resigned from office in disgrace in August 1974 provided a blueprint for the world that Washington would construct after the 9/11 attacks. If Weiner's vision of Nixon is on the mark, then we never got rid of him. We still live in a Nixonian world. And if you need proof of that, just think about his infamous urge to listen in on and tape everyone. Does that sound faintly familiar?

Nixon had the Secret Service turn the Oval Office (five microphones in his desk, two at a sitting area), its telephones, the Cabinet Room (two mics), and his "hideaway" in the Executive Office Building into recording studios. He bugged his own life, ensuring that anything you said to the president of the United States would be recorded, thousands and thousands of hours of it. He was theoretically going to use those recordings for a post-presidential memoir (from which he hoped to make millions) and as a defense against whatever Henry Kissinger might someday write about him.

But whatever the initial impulse may have been, the point was to miss nothing. No one was to be exempted, including Nixon's closest companions in office, no one but the president himself. He would know what others wouldn't and act accordingly (though in the end he didn't). What was one man's mania for bugging and recording his world has become, in the twenty-first century, the NSA's mania for bugging and recording the whole planet; a president's mad vision, that is, somehow morphed into the modern surveillance state. The scale is staggeringly different, but conceptually it's surprising how little has changed.

After all, the NSA's global surveillance network was set up on the Nixonian principle of sweeping it all up - the words, in whatever form, of everyone who was anyone (and lots of people who weren't). A generation of German politicians, Brazilians galore, terror suspects as well as just about anyone with a cell phone in the tribal backlands of the planet, two presidents of Mexico, three German chancellors, three French presidents, at least 35 heads of state, the secretary general of the UN, and so on. The list was unending. As with Nixon, only officials of the national security state were to know that all our communications were being logged and stored. Only they were to be exempt from potential scrutiny. (Hence their utter outrage when Edward Snowden revealed their racket to the world.) Like Nixon, they would, in the end, be left with the same hopeless, incriminating overload of words. They would sweep it all up and yet, drowning in data, they wouldn't hear a thing.

CONTINUED...

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/31870-richard-nixon-s-blueprint-for-twenty-first-century-america



(Left to Righter) Senators Richard Byrd, Richard Nixon, and Prescott Bush Sr. enjoying a moment backstage.

Raster

(20,998 posts)
72. Post on, My Friend, post on! The BFEE and their sycophants are endemic of the fetid rot that...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:34 AM
Jul 2015

...permeates our country at all positions of power. The one thing this country does well is gussy-up a pile of pig shit and then sell it to the masses.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
303. Harold Pinter - Nobel Lecture on Truth, War and the Big Lie
Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:07 PM
Jul 2015

This is truly profound -- about 35 minutes, IIRC...



...you and Mr. Pinter tuned in to the same frequency, Raster.

Response to Octafish (Original post)

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
76. I've learned much from this OP but better yet...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:16 AM
Jul 2015

...I've confirmed from the replies something until now I have only been suspecting. I'll definitely be adding to my small ignore list. I look forward to continued reading and enlightenment from (and it's an honor to say this), fellow DUer Octafish.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
304. ''No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money.'' -- Dr. Samuel Johnson.
Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:11 PM
Jul 2015

The guy never understood what it meant to protect the Bill of Rights.

The Founders understood for democracy (or republic) to work, the People would need honest information and the news. That's why the free press is the only business mentioned by name in the entire constitution. To fulfill their duties, Journalists must have integrity.

I, too, am an ex-reporter. My claim to fame was covering the Jack Kevorkian story and a crooked S&L that cost the U.S. taxpayer about $92 million. Back in the day, our publishers would find the resources to investigate a story and pursue it wherever the chips would fall. Things have changed.

Remember how the press looked like zombies as the United States attacked and destroyed an innocent country? Real journalists would never have gone along with the sham.

Thank you, chknltl. The honor is mine, Dear Friend! Not as many appreciate Truth as they should. Look how much money there is for those in public relations and propaganda and how little for educators and journalists.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
80. I noticed you never got an answer to your question about Cosby.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:22 AM
Jul 2015

I guess some can only talk about you and not to you or answer your simple 'yes' or 'no' questions. I guess talking about you is as good as it gets for some here.

Besides, you know how fun it is for some 'progressives' here to TEE HEE about the BFEE...since they seem to support a lot of the BFEEs positions.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
305. That's a sign, an inability to focus on the point and a talent to promote the freak show.
Tue Jul 14, 2015, 10:32 PM
Jul 2015

One important connection between the BFEE and the Money Trumps Peace people is the PNAC Crowd now rooting for war with Russia. Justice would mean they were the first ones in the trenches.



What about apologizing to Ukraine, Mrs. Nuland?

Fri, Feb 7, 2014
By ORIENTAL REVIEW

What about apologizing to Ukraine, Mrs. Nuland?

Yesterday’s leak of the flagrant telephone talk between the US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey R. Pyatt has already hit the international media headlines. In short, it turned out that the US officials were coordinating their actions on how to install a puppet government in Ukraine. They agreed to nominate Bat’kyvshchina Party leader Arseniy Yatseniuk as Deputy Prime Minister, to bench Udar Party leader Vitaly Klitschko from the game for a while and to discredit neo-Nazi Svoboda party chief Oleh Tiahnybok as “Yanukovych’s project”. Then Mrs. Nuland informed the US Ambassador that the UN Secretary General, Under-Secretary for Political Affairs Jeffrey Feltman had already instructed Ban Ki-moon to send his special envoy to Kyiv this week “to glue things together”. Referring to the European role in managing Ukraine’s political crisis, she was matchlessly elegant: “Fuck the EU”.

In a short while, after nervious attempts to blame Russians in fabricating (!) the tape (State Department: “this is a new low in Russian tradecraft”), Mrs. Nuland made her apologies to the EU officials. Does it mean that the Washington’s repeatedly leaked genuine attitude towards the “strategic Transatlantic partnership” is more worthy of an apology than the direct and clear interference into the internal affairs of a sovereign state and violation of the US-Russia-UK agreement (1994 Budapest memorandum) on security assurances for Ukraine? Meanwhile this document inter alia reads as follows:

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.


Back to the latest Mrs. Nuland’s diplomatic collapse which was made public, it was unlikely an unfortunate misspelling. Andrey Akulov from Strategic Culture Foundation has published a brilliant report (Bride at every wedding, Part I and Part II) a couple of days ago describing Mrs.Nuland’s blatant lack of professionalism and personal integrity. He described in details her involvement in misinforming the US President and nation on the circumstances of the assasination of the US Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens in Benghazi in September 2012 and her support of the unlawful US funding of a number of the Russian “independent” NGOs seeking to bring a color revolution to Russia.

CONTINUED w/LINKS...

http://orientalreview.org/2014/02/07/what-about-apologizing-to-ukraine-mrs-nuland/



Another Tell, Rex, is they always have nothing to say about the Bill of Rights, but find time to smear the person delivering disturbing news.





From ISP's RightWeb:

Our woman in Ukraine, Victoria Nuland, is married to PNAC co-founder Robert Kagan

Robert Kagan's brother is Frederick Kagan

Frederick Kagan's spouse is Kimberly Kagan

Brilliant people, big ideas, etc. The thing is, that's a lot of PNAC. And the PNAC approach to international relations means more wars without end for profits without cease, among other things detrimental to democracy, peace and justice.





PS: Personally, I'm not all that interesting. I'm built like Luca Brazi, so I tend to scare people at first. My favorite movie is "Fistful of Donuts" and I have one ear much bigger than the other. Drunk women tell me the more they drink the more I look like George Clooney. OK. Well. That did happen once. "A woman alleged to be drunk said, 'Octafish, you really look like George Clooney.'" And then I woke up.
 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
93. Dude, that's a bad case of bait-and-switch. How dishonest
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:01 PM
Jul 2015

Sure, we all hate the BFEE, but that's not what upset the OP. Using the link that he placed in his own OP, it is obvious that he is mad because people didn't chime in to agree with his defense of Bill Cosby. I can;t even find people mocking him about the Bush Family Evil Empire.

Octafish is suffering from deceptive poutrage.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
101. Exactly. Par from the course with him. And debates with him are like going down the rabbit hole
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:27 PM
Jul 2015

You get a Gish Gallop of non-sequiturs, red herrings and strawmen thrown at you until you finally give up. Then he concludes that he 'won' because you stopped debating.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
96. K&R for one of the best.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:05 PM
Jul 2015

If it wasn't for Octafish, I'd be so much more happily ignorant of so much. Darn patriots.

SalviaBlue

(2,917 posts)
105. K & R
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:50 PM
Jul 2015

Thanks, Octafish, for all of the info you have provided over the years. You are a pillar of DU and one of the reasons I always check in.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
110. Illegitimi non carborundum
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jul 2015

a mock-Latin aphorism meaning "Don't let the bastards grind you down".

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
111. I will NEVER mock the truth
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:32 PM
Jul 2015

those who do, they have their fingers in their ears and self tied blindfolds over their eyes. Critical thinking skills, if ever had, turned off, completely, never to see the light of reason again. Hang in, damn the mockers. K&R

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
112. Hanging's too good for them.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:32 PM
Jul 2015

Far too good.

And the flood of repuke talking points on DU lately would seem to call for a major housecleaning.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
117. Another K&R Keep posting about the BFEE
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:32 PM
Jul 2015

We need to be reminded again and again, how twisted this family is. The whore media is trying to sell us on the idea that Jebbie is the "moderate" in this primary season!

Gumboot

(531 posts)
118. And let us not forget Marvin Bush...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:42 PM
Jul 2015

... who was a director of SECURACOM, the company responsible for security at the WTC back in 2001.

Most Americans don't even know that Marvin exists, but he's been working in the shadows for decades.



Another BFEE turd who needs the spotlight shone upon him.


Response to Octafish (Reply #126)

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
149. When you don't have an argument, use an emoticon.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:39 PM
Jul 2015

Anything to actually say about what I wrote, stevenleser?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
156. ''Unlike Octafish, I do my homework.'' -- stevenleser of DU
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:11 PM
Jul 2015

You words: http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/10026548590#post273

BTW: You never did answer whether a journalist should call a man a 'rapist' before conviction?

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
127. I've got your back, and I always will. A small handful of dead-enders can make lots of noise.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:44 PM
Jul 2015

Let them make their noises. Keep doing what you've always done--we are a better website because of your efforts.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
133. Anywho, a reminder:
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:56 PM
Jul 2015
Threads promoting so-called "conspiracy theories" are not permitted and should be posted in the Creative Speculation Group.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978

You could also argue that this thread is disruptive Meta.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
138. Of course it's a conspiracy, using position and power to enrich one's cronies.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 05:27 PM
Jul 2015

I've written about it on DU for more than 12 years. Here's a good example:

Know your BFEE: Goldmine Sacked or The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One

So, show where what I wrote is wrong. That would be where the "conspiracy theories" comes in. TIA.

Almost forgot: What have you written that sheds light on criminals, warmongers and traitors, YoungDemCa? Anything?

seafan

(9,387 posts)
135. Keep yer mighty pen a'flowin, Octafish.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 05:02 PM
Jul 2015
Telling the truth is truly a revolutionary act.

We are a smarter place, here at DU, because of you.

ablamj

(333 posts)
142. So basically
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:33 PM
Jul 2015

we are okay calling Bush et al Ciminals, but we shouldn't call Cosby a criminal. Do i have that right? No convictions on any of them but plenty of evidence...

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
143. LOL! Anything to say about what I actually wrote -- on this thread or anywhere?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jul 2015

Or are you implying that I am telling you not to write about what I wrote?

I'm good to go, either way.

ablamj

(333 posts)
144. i'm trying to figure
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:59 PM
Jul 2015

out what you are trying to say. You're posting this to prove Bush et al are Criminals even though they have not been convicted of anything. And you posted it because you were called out on your views in the Cosby thread. There is a ton of evidence to prove Bush and Cosby are criminals. Yet you don't want to call Cosby a criminal because he hasn't been convicted while you turn around and call Bush a criminal while he also hasn't been convicted. It's very confusing.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
146. When you figure it out let me know. I've been down the rabbit hole with him on this for two days now
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:33 PM
Jul 2015

all I get is nonsense in response. I suspect that's what you will get too.

ablamj

(333 posts)
160. I'm sure you're right
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:20 PM
Jul 2015

I agree with him that the Bushies are criminals. But Cosby is a criminal too. There is plenty of evidence.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
162. Justice demands prosecution of traitors, war criminals, mass murderers, war profiteers and thieves.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:32 PM
Jul 2015

Democracy demands they are innocent until proven guilty.

My question to you: Do you think lying America into war is a crime?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
164. Yes I do.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:37 PM
Jul 2015

Never said it wasn't. All I said is a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. It used to be something I took for granted.

ablamj

(333 posts)
172. But do you personally believe
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:48 PM
Jul 2015

that the Bushies are criminals? There is plenty of evidence for it. Do you believe Cosby is a criminal? There is plenty of evidence for it. I know the justice system says innocent until proven guilty for both. But what do you personally think? I personally think both are criminals. What say you?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
176. apparently serial rapists are easy to ignore- women don't rate as important enough to get justice
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:54 PM
Jul 2015

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
196. While that may be your point, bettyellen, that's not what I think or wrote.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:23 AM
Jul 2015

Putting words in another's mouth is a form of disinformation that serves to smear.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
245. It also demands justice of rapists.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:47 PM
Jul 2015

It also demands justice of rapists.

No doubt, we maintain consistency-- either a court room trial is the only valid mechanism for use of the word guilty, or it's not... regardless of whether that applies to George Bush or Bill Cosby.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
179. you posted about Foley - crimes not found- as guilty but just cannot say it about Cosby, LOL....
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:19 PM
Jul 2015

so upset that people were calling Cosby guilty.
Guess what Octafish- Cosby is guilty. LOL.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
182. All sorts of crimes regarding Foley were found.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:29 PM
Jul 2015

Hastert and Boehner prevented police from looking at computers.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/19/foley.investigation/

Other than that though, can you think of a reason why he would resign?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
185. 'Florida closes Foley investigation without charges" so by your Cosby standards, also innocent.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:56 PM
Jul 2015

Thanks for proving my point.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
195. Not at all. Unlike you, Hastert & Boehner, I find the evidence compelling.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:42 AM
Jul 2015

It's in the PUBLIC RECORD.

It's why I invite you to show what's wrong with what i wrote, instead of what you think I wrote or what you think I should write about.

Not that what you think isn't important, it's just that I didn't bring it up, you did.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
212. And note he wrote "Unlike you" accusing you of not finding the evidence against Foley compelling
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:06 PM
Jul 2015

when you never stated anything like that.

More of that crap from him.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
213. Yeah, most of his replies have nothing to do with his dislike of calling Cos a rapist.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:11 PM
Jul 2015

While repeatedly accusing others of crimes they were not convicted of. I don't think he has actually addressed that hypocrisy.
Must be a huge Fat Albert fan.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
215. And he again asked upthread to provide examples of when he has accused other people of stuff
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:16 PM
Jul 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6960261

How many times have just you and I, let alone half a dozen to a dozen other people done this?

It's like talking to a wall.
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
216. Lol, anything to deflect how he is basically a traitor to womankind. Society deserves protection....
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:25 PM
Jul 2015

But half of us are shit out of luck because of attitude like his.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
229. So now I'm a ''traitor to womankind''? Nice smear, bettyellen. Guess that's the best you can do...
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:40 PM
Jul 2015

Here's what I think of womankind and all humanity, for that matter:

Time Flies, Kids.

For all of us are children still.



"Every second we live is a new and unique moment for the universe, a moment that never was before and will never be again.

And what do we teach children in school? We teach them that two and two make four and that Paris is the capital of France.

When will we also teach them: Do you know what you are?

You are a Marvel. You are Unique. In all the world there is no other child exactly like you.

In the millions of years that have passed there has never been another child like you.

And look at your body what a wonder it is! Your legs, your arms, your cunning fingers, the way you move!

You may become a Shakespeare, a Michelangelo, a Beethoven. You have the capacity for anything.

Yes, you are a marvel. And when you grow up, can you then harm another who is, like you, a marvel?

You must cherish one another. You must work. We all must work to make this world worthy of children."

-- Pablo Casals

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
232. Sadly it is all too common
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:55 PM
Jul 2015

We see it whenever there is a posting about rape, especially when the accused is high-profile. In the case of Cosby, the evidence is overwhelming, and LAPD is actively investigating it based on the release of Cosby's court testimony that he drugged women for sex.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
243. And we can't get through to him. He uses all these weird defense mechanisms instead of listening.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:41 PM
Jul 2015

He attacks us, intentionally misconstrues what we say, goes ad hominem, etc.

Just apply the same standard to Cosby that you do to Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Foley.

That should be simple, right?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
301. ''The fact is that posting on DU is not 'fighting fascism''' -- stevenleser
Mon Jul 13, 2015, 07:24 AM
Jul 2015
"Don't pretend that you are some superhero-like fascism fighter or claim you are extending some invitation to join you in doing so"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026213370#post36


Get through to me? You don't even know the first thing about me, let alone what I'm writing about.

carla

(553 posts)
145. Keep it up
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:14 PM
Jul 2015

octafish. You are doing good and so others who are lazy, ignorant or DINOs will attack you for telling things as they actually are. You got my support.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
159. Your Links and DU Posts are a "DU Treasure".....
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:43 PM
Jul 2015

Don't even bother with those who try to distract. Keep up your Information that keeps us all from going down the "Memory Hole" and forgetting what has passed before that is relevant to what we are dealing with these days.

I agree that every Accused should have the right to be Presumed Innocent. In Cosby's case the Statute of Limitations has run out, but, to be attacked here, because you were defending a person's rights to be "Presumed Innocent" rather than Mob/Media Rule declaring "Guilty" before all the evidence is out there was OTT by those attacking you.

I'm disappointed about what is coming out about Bill Cosby and it does seem very damning to him....but MOB SWARM to CONVICT is not a Democratic Principle and not something that I would think that any of us here should be promoting because it's more Repub in Practice than Democratic.

I support you and all the information you've shared with us here on "DU" all these years.

Would just ignore those who are trying to go after you for some past grievance they have with the information in your prior posts.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
181. Florida dropped the case on grounds of ''insufficient evidence'' meaning GOP Congress covered up.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:25 PM
Jul 2015

I wonder if someone could have pursued the case against Foley harder than the GOP House leadership, bettyellen?



Florida closes Foley investigation without charges

Former lawmaker accused of sending suggestive messages to House pages
Florida agency won't file charges against ex-Rep. Mark Foley, official says
Foley, Congress blocked access to "critical data," agency says
Foley did not engage in sexual activity with minors, his attorney says


From Susan Candiotti
CNN, Sept. 19, 2008

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- The Florida Department of Law Enforcement closed a sex-related criminal probe of former U.S. Rep. Mark Foley on Friday without filing charges, authorities said.

"There is insufficient evidence to pursue criminal charges," said Gerald Bailey, commissioner of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Authorities were investigating whether the Florida Republican, who resigned in September 2006, might have used congressional computers to engage or solicit minors in any illegal activities.

[font color="red"]Officials said they were hindered by refusal from Foley and the House of Representatives to allow inspection of the computers.[/font color]

"FDLE conducted as thorough and comprehensive investigation as possible considering Congress and Mr. Foley denied us access to critical data," Bailey said in a written statement. "Should additional information arise which is pertinent to this case, we will ensure it is appropriately investigated."

Foley is "relieved" that no probable cause was found to charge him with a crime, his lawyer, David Roth, told reporters Friday evening. But in a statement Roth read on behalf of the former congressman, Foley added, "I however recognize that while my behavior was not illegal, it does not by any means make it proper or approriate. To the contrary, I am deeply ashamed of my conduct, which was wrong and without question inappropriate."

SNIP...

"He is absolutely, positively not a pedophile," attorney David Roth said previously. "He is apologetic for the communications he made while under the influence of alcohol, which he acknowledges are totally inappropriate."

CONTINUED...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/19/foley.investigation/



I don't know about you, bettyellen, but if I were in Congress, I'd demand what was on those computers get turned over to the police. For some reason, Denny Hastert didn't want was on the computer exposed.
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
186. LOL, and no one covered for Cosby. Sounds like two innocent lambs with conspiracy theories
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:58 PM
Jul 2015

swirling around them that could never be proved. Who are we to say one is guilty and the other not.
Oh wait- that was YOU saying that, not me, LOL.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
191. Foley was in charge of protecting 'Missing and Exploited Children'
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:58 PM
Jul 2015
I didn't cover it up. I've posted about the case since it was first reported the Republican congressman who sent sexually suggestive Instant Messages to an underage male page.



FTR, in his official capacity, Foley established for himself a leadership role in protecting "Missing and Exploited Children" on Capitol Hill.

Did Foley ever work with the Second Mile organization that Jerry Sandusky founded and used to find victims?

If so, the connection may lead to unmasking some of the sickest of the sick. Foley was nationwide. It seems Sandusky was protected by officials at Penn State.

What I've failed to find in all this is anyone with real authority working to protect children. That's why I wrote about them, even if the GOP was putting the lid on the case in 2006. When did you post about it, bettyellen?
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
193. No one accused you or "covering it up"? WTF? He wasn't found guilty- so he's not guilty according to your
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:39 AM
Jul 2015

own standards. Just like Cosby! Why do you vilify these innocents here?

AikidoSoul

(2,150 posts)
167. Octafish, I love you. You obviously care enough to dig deep and hard towards
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:44 PM
Jul 2015

getting closer to the truth.

I cherish your posts and the detail you provide.

You are one of my top five posters on DU, and honestly, after today I think you hit number one!

Keep up the great work, and don't let the jerks get in your way.



tularetom

(23,664 posts)
202. So…everything you posted about BFEE is wrong because… Bill Cosby?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:50 AM
Jul 2015

I just got here and I just had time to scan this thread.

There are some people here with some strange priorities.

Heres a big K'n'R for ya.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
220. nope, you have that exactly backwards. His hypocrisy on Bill Cosby is somehow OK because he hates
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:31 PM
Jul 2015

the BFEE.

Which when you think about it is nothing special because everyone on DU hates the BFEE and thinks they are guilty of all kinds of stuff.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
223. Does Roger Ailes let you talk about anything related to the BFEE on tee vee?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jul 2015

BTW: You still haven't shown where I was wrong on this or any other thread, stevenleser.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
225. I'm not a Fox employee. So I can say anything I want. And we have proved you wrong dozens of times
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:38 PM
Jul 2015

your hypocrisy on women's rights is shameful.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
239. Why such umbrage?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:14 PM
Jul 2015

Lefties Dennis Kucinich, Alan Colmes and Greta VanSusteren are employees of FOX.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
240. See Bainbanes #238 below, she says it better than I could
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:26 PM
Jul 2015

And umbrage has nothing to do with it. I would advise anyone, anywhere, in any career field not to speculate publicly about a nonexistent job offer. It's a terrible idea.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
226. Sorry, the hypocrisy isn't apparent from where I'm standing
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:38 PM
Jul 2015

Your posts appear to be motivated by some sort of deep seated personal animus toward this poster.

Perhaps you should take a few deep breaths and reflect on what is really important to you.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
227. Nope, there are half a dozen of us pointing out the same thing, so its not me. Nice try though. nt
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:39 PM
Jul 2015

tkmorris

(11,138 posts)
276. What I find interesting is exactly that
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:14 PM
Jul 2015

Those few you find on your side in this debate. It's a rather telling group of allies I'd say.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
285. No.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 01:06 AM
Jul 2015

If you'd read the links provided up thread, you'd realize Octafish is covering his ass with a massive wall of text after being caught in blatant hypocrisy and called out by multiple members.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
214. There are no Fox News Contributors on DU. At least none that I am aware of. There are guests
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:14 PM
Jul 2015

I am one of them. A contributor is a specific job description in media. It implies a paid employee. Generally they only appear on that network.

As a guest, I have appeared on several networks including RT, Blaze and Fox, and have had clips on MSNBC and Comedy network, and I am employed by none of them.

Other guests that have appeared on Fox are Glenn Greenwald, Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, Jane Hamsher, Jon Stewart, etc.

Is your vitriol aimed at those guests too or is it solely aimed at me?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
224. Yes, guest, just like when I have been a guest on RT and elsewhere
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jul 2015


Just like Greenwald and Sanders





If you have evidence that I have accepted an employment in media, provide the link. All networks publicize when they have signed a contract with someone. Post a link.
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
228. By the way, am permalinking and sending this to my journal for reference to your ad hominems
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:40 PM
Jul 2015

against me without proof.

Because that is the kind of debater you are.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
234. What ad hominem from me? That's how Fox identified you.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:00 PM
Jul 2015

As for your journal. Big deal.

And, like I asked you before, I'll debate you online or on-air, anywhere and anytime.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
265. So those screen grabs are of someone with the same name as you who looks like you 3 times?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:49 PM
Jul 2015


Gosh, all this time I thought the words underneath were meant to describe who was on the screen above them.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
280. You got at least three different job descriptions on FOX television.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:35 PM
Jul 2015

"OP-ED NEWS EDITOR"

"DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST"

"AIDE FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA'S 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN"

Which guest are you?

And which one is the "ad hominem"?

I got a guess, but that's not good journalism when you assume.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
281. At least you've now moved the goalposts to where you are not accusing me of being an employee
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:40 PM
Jul 2015

By the way, where is that principle again where you say you don't accuse people of stuff unless they have been convicted?

I keep not seeing it unless we are talking about accused rapist Cosby.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
222. If you mean that guy from that thing, yeah.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:35 PM
Jul 2015

The one I'm thinking of still hasn't answered whether a journalist should call a man suspected of rape a "rapist" before conviction in a court of law.



With Fox News Liberals, Who Needs Conservatives?

They play the left on Rupert Murdoch’s TV

By Steve Rendall
FAIR, March 1, 2012

Fox News co-host and contributor Bob Beckel has called for the assassination of WikiLeaks spokesperson Julian Assange (“A dead man can’t leak stuff”—Follow the Money, 12/6/10), for furnishing guns to school children (“If you give your kid a gun, no bullying”—Five, 1/5/12) and for militant opposition to the “War on Christmas,” which is “completely out of hand” (Five, 12/9/11).

These views are anything but out of place on Fox News, where hosts and commentators are known for fantasizing about murdering progressives (FAIR Blog, 11/10/10), deifying gun ownership (Beck, 6/29/11) and courageously confronting those who would wish them happy holidays (O’Reilly Factor, 11/17/11).

But Beckel is presented as a left-leaning voice on Fox, a counterweight to the network’s army of right-leaning talkers. And he’s far from an atypical specimen there.

As one of five co-hosts on Fox’s new program the Five, Beckel is supposed to serve as foil to four conservative co-hosts. That’s the theory. In reality, Beckel more than occasionally joins his conservative counterparts. (Typically, Five panelists include former George W. Bush aide Dana Perino, Fox News Red Eye anchor Greg Gutfield, Fox legal commentator Kimberly Guilfoyle and Fox Business Network host Eric Bolling.)

For instance, when Beckel’s colleague Bolling (Five, 12/14/11) recounted how he’d kicked a representative from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) off his Fox Business show (Follow the Money,12/12/11) for opposing the display of a nativity scene at a Texas courthouse, Beckel bluntly approved: “Good.” When Five co-host Greg Gutfield (12/9/11) compared FFRF to a woman who’d once demanded that he put out his cigarette, Beckel’s only response was, “Did you deck her?”

Discussing charges that GOP Rep. Mark Foley (Fla.) had exchanged inappropriate messages with male congressional pages (Hannity & Colmes, 10/2/06), Beckel suggested that Foley, because he’s gay, should have been kept away from pages to begin with, likening him to a notorious bank robber: “If Willie Sutton is around some place where a bank is robbed, then you’re probably going to say, ‘Willie, stay away from the robbery.’”

CONTINUED...

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/with-fox-news-liberals-who-needs-conservatives/



Most importantly: A hearty welcome to DU, MoveIt!
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
251. Oh and in other words, you are accusing me of something here, but can't accuse Cosby.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 02:12 PM
Jul 2015

You wanted examples, here is another one.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
272. Thanks for the reminder.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:06 PM
Jul 2015

Do you think Bill Cosby is a rapist?

BTW: I already answered that one. I said he's a rapist upon conviction. Until then, he's been accused of rape. It's called "innocent until proven guilty." Not surprised you'd make a big deal of me having to repeat that for the 100th time.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
278. I didn't know I had to answer to anyone. I'm that way with authority.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:26 PM
Jul 2015

It's why I would think very highly of people like Frank Zappa, who said: "Politics is the entertainment branch of the military industrial complex."

I don't remember you ever posting anything like that, zappaman.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
282. My name's not Brad, zappaman. It's Octafish.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:45 PM
Jul 2015

That's why I bother answering smear artists by asking them to show where I'm wrong. I've got a reputation to uphold. So, show where I'm wrong, don't refer to some far off invisible message board imaginary friend.

Something else Frank Zappa said that's important to what I write about: “The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

That's something I've never seen you address, though. When discussing Democracy, that ability to see the nature of what is destroying democracy is what is really helpful.



Octafish

(55,745 posts)
287. You never did show where I am wrong, zappaman.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 02:07 AM
Jul 2015

As for what you do do on DU, do you ever write about the BFEE? If so, send me that link, too. I won't mind comparing what you post to mine.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
268. Lol, right? Jumping right into a conflict with another DUer isn't remotely suspicious
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:58 PM
Jul 2015


Folks think people won't notice!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
262. You noticed that?
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 09:31 PM
Jul 2015

While they themselves are owned, Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes own the GOP.

I have a problem with their approach to journalism, particularly in the lying parts. Like, helping lie America into war.



[font size="6"][font color="red"]Rupert Murdoch called Tony Blair urging him not to delay the invasion of Iraq, former Number 10 communications chief Alastair Campbell has said.
[/font color][/font size]
SOURCE: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18468123


While they haven't been brought before a court of law, I think a case could be made as willing accomplices to war crimes and mass murder.

I don't hold their guests or employees responsible, necessarily.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
238. That they know this originated from a discussion involving you
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:10 PM
Jul 2015

demonstrates they know it is about an accused rapist, Cosby, who is under investigation by the LAPD after admitting in open court he gave women drugs to have sex. Yet we see again that those rape victims lives pale in comparison to their preference for one poster on a message board for another. What about justice? What about equal rights for women? What about dispensing with reverence for the rich and famous above the 48 rape victims?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
244. No. It's about Justice. You must have ''forgotten.''
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jul 2015

I explained it to you before, above in Reply 148.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
248. And I and every other Democrat on this site agrees that Bush is a lying, asshole
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:58 PM
Jul 2015

You act like there is something radical about that. There isn't, not in this audience. You are using that to deflect from your insistence that Cosby not be called a rapist, despite the mountain of evidence against him. The only lives that matter are not those of the powerful, rich and famous. Rape victims also matter, the billion women on this earth who are raped in their lifetime. You insist on keeping the focus on the lives of great men and working furiously to distract from an issue that wreaks havoc in the lives of a billion women across this planet. How could their lives possibly matter compared to the rich and powerful? First Assange, now Cosby. The more you dissemble, the more you expose yourself. It is not enough to care about great men. The people matter, women matter. As you furiously work to distract attention toward the rich and powerful, you show precisely where your concerns lie. That might have passed for leftism a half century ago, but no longer. A top down view of politics that focuses on great men belongs to the 19th century. The Civil Rights movement, women's movements, and the development of social and cultural history means that leftists must concern themselves with the many, not simply the rich and famous.

Will you stand up for the oppressed, or are you too wedded to the great man view of politics to care about anything else?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
255. Where did I ''dissemble''? I don't like being called a liar, BainsBane.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 05:01 PM
Jul 2015

Show where I lied or posted anything that's false. Show.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
246. They don't care about the women, like you said its a game to them about personalities on DU.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:49 PM
Jul 2015

This is one of the worst and most blatant incidences of hypocrisy ever displayed on DU, and the person has doubled, tripled, "one-hundreded"-down on it. Then we have folks defending them because of some weird sense of loyalty that should be instead given to women at risk for sexual assault to try to tear down rape culture.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
249. If you want to see someone treated as the enemy
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 02:04 PM
Jul 2015

Let a feminist post an OP using the term rape culture. So for some it may be only about loyalties to personalities, but given the history of responses to threads on this subject, it might also correspond with a shared defense of patriarchal power. It's not exactly risky to take on a Republican political family on a Democratic website. Pretending otherwise is absurd. Challenging power that is embedded in daily life, however, is far more difficult and something many refuse to do. It requires self-reflection and perhaps modification of one's own behavior, and it is far easier to focus on an external enemy.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
250. I did a big piece on rape culture in 2013 with Marcotte and I should show you the stats on that show
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 02:07 PM
Jul 2015
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lesersense/2013/03/31/making-sense-with-steve-leser--amanda-marcotte-interview

There was a noticeable dip in the interest and listens for that particular show. The ratings and listens immediately picked up the next week.
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
253. You know you see it with coverage of the Runaways too....
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 04:43 PM
Jul 2015

So many people asking "why she waited to report" instead of - how did dozens of people, friends and band mates let it happen? Why did some spend years not just participating in the coverup but cruelly mocking her? Why aren't we talking about that instead of what the victim "did wrong"?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
294. Right you are. See for yourself.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:50 PM
Jul 2015
Baron de Rothschild and Prescott Bush, share a rich and powerful moment -- and what looks like some inside official information --back in the day.



Rothschild and Freshfields founders had links to slavery, papers reveal

George W. Bush’s Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandfather Walker Was a Slave Trader

If this was in the news, people might not wonder why the Have-Mores keep getting ahead while the 99-percent must make-do with Austerity and working to 70.
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