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Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:55 AM Jul 2015

I am sorry for slavery. Part of the privilege of being white is that I don't often need to

Last edited Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:16 AM - Edit history (1)

think too hard about slavery. My university forced us to take a class that qualified as an ethnic studies class. My Junior year I decided I would get that requirement out of the way while at the same time fulfilling a literature requirement. I chose an African American Literature course. We read selections from the Norton Anthology of African American Literature 2nd Edition. In this course I was exposed to

Lucy Terry - Bars Fight

Phillis Wheatley - Various poems and letters

Harriet Jacobs - A fair bit of "Incidents in the life of a Slave Girl"

William Wells Brown - "Narrative of W.W.B, a Fugitive Slave" and also "Clotel"

Henry Highland Garnet - We read an Address to the Slaves of the USA

Frederick Douglass - Narrative and some other stuff

Booker T. Washington - from "Up From Slavery" and a speech which we compared and contrasted to Garnet's

Charles W. Chesnutt - "The Goophered Grapevine" and "The Passing of Grandison"

W.E.B DuBois - most of "The Souls of Black Folks"

Paul Laurence Dunbar - 15 or so different poems

James Weldon Johnson - We read all of "The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man"

Marcus Garvey - "Africa for Africans" and "The Future and I See It"

Zora Neale Hurston - "Sweat" and "How it Feels to Be Colored Me"

Richard Wright - "Native Son" Watched the Movie.

We watched a little bit of Birth of a Nation.

We watched Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Toms Cabin (didn't read it)

Gwendolyn Brooks - read a whole laundry list of stuff from her.

Toni Morrison - Part II or "Song of Solomon"

Then we each had to do an author analysis of some other author in the book who we did not read in class. I chose;

Octavia Butler - and for that I read "Kindred" and "Parable of the Sower"

Probably more, but this was from memory so it's the best I could do. Anyway, this has all served very well to open my eyes to the plight of African Americans, but the crystalizing moment for me was the day when we watched a documentary about the middle passage. They described many horrors of chattel slavery, but the one thing that shook me to my core was the image of "tight packing."





It never really struck home the utter disregard for humanity toward the African people until I saw and considered the mindset it took to rip people from their homeland, stack them in the hull of a ship for months on end lying in their own shit and piss, unable to move with no idea when this hell might cease. African American's might as well have been a box of pencils or a stack of cord wood. Maybe even less than that. What we did to you was unconscionable and horrific. And given that a politician, a leader I admire greatly acknowledged that we needed to apologize for slavery, I wanted to do my part as a white American by acknowledging your forefather's and mother's suffering. I want to say that I'm so, so sorry for slavery. I am unequivocally ashamed for what my "Christian" forefathers did to you and yours. I know it means not much, but I want you to know that this white American is interested in your struggles. This white American can only try, unsuccessfully, but try I do, to empathize with your people's plight. I am ashamed that all these years later, you are still classified by your skin color and suffer the centuries worth of indignities to this day. I am sorry for slavery. I am sorry for racism. I am sorry for my white privilege. I am sorry that cops kill your children while the justice system and our lawmakers incarcerate your brothers and fathers at rates that dwarf those of white people's incarceration rates. I am sorry that over half of your young people go unemployed. I am sorry you are often ghettoized and then forced out/priced out of the homes you manage to make in your ghetto by gentrification. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry and I wish there was something I could do to make amends. I'm sorry for the slavery you've endured at white hands for the last 400 years and still endure today. I'm sorry for slavery.

173 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I am sorry for slavery. Part of the privilege of being white is that I don't often need to (Original Post) Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 OP
I accept your apology and ask that you jaysunb Jul 2015 #1
I do and will continue. Thank you, Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #3
Ed said it all. There is nothing to add. k &r. shraby Jul 2015 #2
A lot of people have never read a book by a black author tblue Jul 2015 #4
Great post. Agree completely. cui bono Jul 2015 #5
I was fortunate enough to have a wonderful Paka Jul 2015 #6
I feel that way partly.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #7
Native Son is one of the great American novels vlakitti Jul 2015 #8
It is a disgrace brer cat Jul 2015 #9
The new Texas history books ignore most of the stuff about slavery and tblue37 Jul 2015 #21
And that most of them have to wait until college to do that. jwirr Jul 2015 #29
We aren't directly morally culpable for slavery. We *are* directly morally culpable for the racist Romulox Jul 2015 #10
Kick tavernier Jul 2015 #11
kicked...nt Quayblue Jul 2015 #12
Civilization doesn't happen without slavery The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #13
Slavery based on color is has not happened throughout history. Also when you are talking about jwirr Jul 2015 #31
Is slavery based on color worse than slavery based on something else? The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #54
WOW ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #34
Isn't mind boggling? Civilization began in Africa. These racists here don't know shit! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #53
Civilization beginning in Africa would change what? The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #60
The utterly ridiculous statement made in the post above! It also educates EVERYONE--racists and not- Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #64
I'm sorry, you'll have to show me where I said anything about The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #79
1StrongBlackMan caught it, too. Go back and read your comment. Read 1SBM's response. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #85
And before the resident Slavery scholars pipe in with ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #61
Before they keep going back to slavery - can we get up to 1919? JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #103
Nope ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #114
American slavery was uniquely based on white supremacy rather than class or circumstances. freshwest Jul 2015 #127
Thank you for your excellent post. haikugal Jul 2015 #142
That's interesting. I have not read anything about that, can you recommend a book? cui bono Jul 2015 #130
Here is a primer out of the University of Colorada ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #132
Thanks, I appreciate it. cui bono Jul 2015 #133
Someone with an itchy alert finger didn't like your tone. Jury disagreed. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #91
Where did he call someone a racist? JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #95
I'm a GIRL!! LOL! :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #101
I screwed up! JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #109
Bwwwaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! LOL! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #120
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #126
One of the 'female persuasion,' huh? Triple whammy for you! Expect incoming! :) freshwest Jul 2015 #117
LOL!! I thought everyone knew that about me. You mean, all my flirting and kisses weren't enough? :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #119
Oh, I knew that a long time ago. But you have just got another mark against you! freshwest Jul 2015 #121
LMAO!! Oh, but of course. I gotta love Sanitarium, though. He's the best racist ReThug out there... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #122
It didn't happen, and it looks like me & 4 other jurors thought it was a weak alert. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2015 #106
In the title of her post. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #152
NMBirder and AverageJoe90 were perfect examples of this JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #154
But she wasn't talking about either of those people. Rather, The2ndWheel was the target Scootaloo Jul 2015 #156
Take it to admin JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #157
I figure the2ndwheel can do it, if he's bothered by it Scootaloo Jul 2015 #158
Thanks but no thanks! JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #159
It doesn't fit. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #161
Oh no! Fear of the R word lovemydog Jul 2015 #135
This message was self-deleted by its author freshwest Jul 2015 #172
Oy....does it EVER end? randys1 Jul 2015 #68
I know, huh? NOLALady Jul 2015 #69
Hey - me? JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #93
Glad someone's laughing. Don't know whether to laugh or cry to be honest. Just SMDH! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #102
Sometimes I'm just happy that I don't live next door to folks JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #108
heheheheh…... blm Jul 2015 #115
I had someone post something yesterday ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #112
Oooh boy! JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #113
This message was self-deleted by its author freshwest Jul 2015 #173
I thought Ed's OP was referring to nc4bo Jul 2015 #51
Unless the OP was around a few hundred years ago The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #63
ACtually what we should do is pay reparations and consider ourselves lucky that is all we have to do randys1 Jul 2015 #72
I am interested in your reparations plan philosslayer Jul 2015 #87
Tax everyone, including those who will benefit, then pay reparations to randys1 Jul 2015 #88
how about this plan heaven05 Jul 2015 #169
No. Just because you're selling doesn't mean I must buy. nc4bo Jul 2015 #73
It was talking about slavery in America. Quayblue Jul 2015 #111
It starts like this Ed. "as a nation — we have got to apologize for slavery" Autumn Jul 2015 #14
Racial collective guilt is unhealthy Taitertots Jul 2015 #15
Damn romanic Jul 2015 #16
Expressing sorrow is I believe, wholly different than making an apology. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #19
I'm saddened that you had to take a dig at my reading "a couple books while attending college" Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #20
My family came from Europe to avoid the holocaust... Taitertots Jul 2015 #23
Nobody is talking about guilt. kwassa Jul 2015 #137
What was the U.S. government's involvement in ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #38
+1 lovemydog Jul 2015 #136
Well let me see - Am I sorry for the holocaust - as a German American - yes. Am I sorry for jwirr Jul 2015 #41
I know - I hate when that happens JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #110
So am i ibegurpard Jul 2015 #17
Africans bear a huge responsibility for slave trade as well. B2G Jul 2015 #18
results of my alert ibegurpard Jul 2015 #22
Ugh. Perhaps this person isn't a post and run type. nc4bo Jul 2015 #24
I just did. nt B2G Jul 2015 #26
Not much to elaborate. ibegurpard Jul 2015 #27
Really? Acknowleging BOTH sides of the slave trade B2G Jul 2015 #30
racist slavery apologism ibegurpard Jul 2015 #32
Whatever B2G Jul 2015 #33
Your post was too vague to be correct or incorrect.... daleanime Jul 2015 #163
Those slave traders in Africa weren't from nations founded on the basis of individual blm Jul 2015 #35
yup ibegurpard Jul 2015 #37
This was alerted on... Man of Distinction Jul 2015 #43
alert troll? ibegurpard Jul 2015 #46
Racism is permeated throughout DU and the Moderators aren't doing shit about it! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #57
There is that...White privilege allows some to simply not see what is SEARED into your brain randys1 Jul 2015 #75
You guys need to cut this "racist" crap. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #123
trying to absolve responsibility for slavery ibegurpard Jul 2015 #124
Really SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #128
post #164 heaven05 Jul 2015 #167
Sorry, I thought I was agreeing - I said "ideals," not reality. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #168
+1000 heaven05 Jul 2015 #170
I suppose it depends on the point Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #129
In this case of heaven05 Jul 2015 #166
well, I can see heaven05 Jul 2015 #164
I assume that you are talking about the fact that the slaves were often sold by other Afican tribes jwirr Jul 2015 #48
Exactly, and I'm not trying to absolve anyone. nt B2G Jul 2015 #55
I struggled responding to this line of "reasoning"; so I will just recommend that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #52
I'm sorry you felt you had to censor yourself ibegurpard Jul 2015 #62
I have too many recent hides ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #71
Yes, there are some who want to silence you and anyone who supports you so live to randys1 Jul 2015 #76
I disagreed with you vehemently in those discussions ibegurpard Jul 2015 #82
A book recommendation: gollygee Jul 2015 #70
I agree. cwydro Jul 2015 #107
No, they did not enslave or sell their countrymen BainsBane Jul 2015 #149
Thank you Juror #4. You get it. B2G Jul 2015 #25
A few profiteers versus our entire society? Are you fucking serious? bettyellen Jul 2015 #36
Oh he or she is serious all right ibegurpard Jul 2015 #39
Seriously deranged bit of RW derailing there- "blacks did it too!". Fuck that noise. bettyellen Jul 2015 #42
Fuck that noise indeed randys1 Jul 2015 #77
That's the go to these days JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #97
I tried to write a response to that thread ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #56
I see you are getting some real shitty alerts. bettyellen Jul 2015 #78
It makes sense from an "this is our particular history" point of view The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #45
Thanks. 840high Jul 2015 #138
I'm Juror #3 and I'm afraid that there are so many racists here on DU that this place will become... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #50
It's not racism ... It's economics!!!!! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #58
Oh, yes. How could I forget?? :( Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #59
And the long winded explanations of why slavery, while sort of bad, really is blah blah blah randys1 Jul 2015 #81
I wasn't on the jury, but I wouldn't hide it Reter Jul 2015 #151
Really? This is why we can't have nice things. azmom Jul 2015 #40
Wrong. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #44
Henry Louis Gates disagrees. B2G Jul 2015 #47
Not at all. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #49
the title Ending the Slavery "Blame Game" explains their POV completely- it's a game, or card played bettyellen Jul 2015 #84
It's an abdication from the responsibility we have as US society to make whole the harm from racism. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #105
I agree - let me knock you over with a feather JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #155
I like Cjeekdgg CreekDog Jul 2015 #66
Yay, you're here!! B2G Jul 2015 #67
What is your issue with Africa? CreekDog Jul 2015 #83
I was wondering where you went. B2G Jul 2015 #86
your posts about Africa, Africans or African Americans are not needles in a haystack CreekDog Jul 2015 #89
Being concerned about Ebola transmissions B2G Jul 2015 #94
it appears your concern is about Africans CreekDog Jul 2015 #100
It appears we were having a perfectly rational discussion in the ebola thread B2G Jul 2015 #104
WOW, that's interesting! bettyellen Jul 2015 #90
He has a whole dossier on me B2G Jul 2015 #96
obviously justified ibegurpard Jul 2015 #98
Totally. nt B2G Jul 2015 #99
You did awesome on that thread JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #125
Go get'em, Dog!! Number23 Jul 2015 #162
We can put you in charge of going to Africa and arranging for reparations, in the meantime randys1 Jul 2015 #74
You DO NOT heaven05 Jul 2015 #150
No, point of fact they do not. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #153
Hey genius!!!! heaven05 Jul 2015 #165
^^^^THAT^^^^ jwirr Jul 2015 #28
In my Black studies class (1968) we also read Leroy Jones (now Amiri Baraka) panader0 Jul 2015 #65
I read Howard Zinn on how slaves were transported, and "packed." I still gasp for air Hoyt Jul 2015 #80
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #140
Now Read: The New Jim Crow JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #92
There is an abundant amount of documentation supporting reparations which would bring much Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #116
My ancestors fought for Free State Kansas MuseRider Jul 2015 #118
I'm sorry too for that which i had no control over seveneyes Jul 2015 #131
I worked my fingers to the muther fucking bone seveneyes Jul 2015 #134
Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #139
Just to let you know that not only blacks were in slavery! akbacchus_BC Jul 2015 #141
You cannot apologise for something that you were not a part akbacchus_BC Jul 2015 #143
Wait a minute. Now I'm not the smartest guy in the room, pretty much ever, but I hear people say Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #144
All am saying is that you do not have to apologise for what your ancestors did! akbacchus_BC Jul 2015 #145
Thanks. I appreciate what you are saying, but if it's good enough for the Pope . . . Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #146
Being sorry for something and apologizing are two different things philosslayer Jul 2015 #171
Things you should never feel guilty for: Being horny and stuff your ancestors did. redgreenandblue Jul 2015 #147
There's a thread by golly gee following up on your post yesterday JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #148
I'd be ok with a reparations program bluestateguy Jul 2015 #160

tblue

(16,350 posts)
4. A lot of people have never read a book by a black author
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:54 AM
Jul 2015

So you've done way more than probably anybody I know to acquaint yourself with black American history and literature. Thank you, thank you, thank you for investing your time and your heart in gaining an understanding of the pain you have never and will never have to face in your own life. Honestly, thank you. If only everyone would do that, what a wonderful world this could be.

Paka

(2,760 posts)
6. I was fortunate enough to have a wonderful
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:04 AM
Jul 2015

Black Studies Professor at my university and I took every class he taught back in the '70's. As a result I was introduced to a wide range of African American writers. What a great experience that was, and truly an eye opener.

Thanks for this posting.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
7. I feel that way partly....
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:24 AM
Jul 2015

The Indian part wishes Columbus never made it back.

BTW: Is this a good time to bring up the name of the first slave ship or what King James did to the Bible?

vlakitti

(401 posts)
8. Native Son is one of the great American novels
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:45 AM
Jul 2015

and The Souls of Black Folk is just overwhelming. It ought to be required reading in US high schools.

brer cat

(24,576 posts)
9. It is a disgrace
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:10 AM
Jul 2015

that students have to go out of their way to learn essential parts of our own history and culture. The textbook history that most encounter ignore and/or sugar-coat the treatment and life journeys of both native Americans and AfAms. I don't know how it is today, but in the 80's and early 90's when my daughter was in school, she was expose to ZERO writings by poc in American lit courses. We may have an integrated society, but we are woefully segregated in our curriculum.

Very good post, Ed. We do owe an apology and recognition of white privilege, and I join you.

tblue37

(65,403 posts)
21. The new Texas history books ignore most of the stuff about slavery and
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:51 PM
Jul 2015

leave out the KKK and Jim Crow!

"Whitewash: New Texas history books will downplay slavery, omit KKK and Jim Crow"

DU thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026947153

Original on Raw Story:
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/whitewash-new-texas-history-books-will-downplay-slavery-omit-kkk-and-jim-crow/

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
10. We aren't directly morally culpable for slavery. We *are* directly morally culpable for the racist
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:13 AM
Jul 2015

War on Drugs, the racist for-profit prison system, and wars on brown people all over the world.

Notice that we don't "reflect" on any of the latter in modern society, very much.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
13. Civilization doesn't happen without slavery
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:23 AM
Jul 2015

Well it might have had people found and were able to put to use stuff like oil and coal earlier, but the history that we know is the one that unfolded the way it did.

Not so much apologizing for slavery, but if we're going down that road, we should apologize for what made slavery needed, which is the resource concentration mechanism we call civilization. Slavery is obviously far older than white America, or America.

American slavery is really just a branch on the tree. You're not really close to the root. That goes back thousands and thousands of years, not just a few hundred.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
31. Slavery based on color is has not happened throughout history. Also when you are talking about
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:22 PM
Jul 2015

civilization doesn't happen without slavery have you forgotten all the small farms in the Midwest that did not use slavery? The immigrants went out there and built their homes, plowed their fields and grew their foods without the benefit of slavery and they are definitely a part of civilization happening.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
54. Is slavery based on color worse than slavery based on something else?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:56 PM
Jul 2015

Go through the 10,000 year or so history of civilization, and try and find a way that civilization as we know happens without slavery, in one form or another. Midwestern farmers, ok, they didn't use slaves at the particular time that they were growing their crops. Not every white person that lives in the south is racist either. The small picture, and big picture, can exist at the same time, even if they're contradictory.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
60. Civilization beginning in Africa would change what?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:02 PM
Jul 2015

And please don't call me a racist when I said nothing racist. Did I say one race was better than another? No.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
64. The utterly ridiculous statement made in the post above! It also educates EVERYONE--racists and not-
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:12 PM
Jul 2015

who wrongly believe that Africans and African Americans haven't contributed anything.

The discussion is pertinent because our school textbooks are being rewritten as I type this message to discard this country's history of oppression against people of color.

That's how it'll change this.

Get out and read more about the history of civilization. And don't make idiotic statements.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
79. I'm sorry, you'll have to show me where I said anything about
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:28 PM
Jul 2015

Africans or African Americans not contributing anything, in what I imagine you mean a positive way. I said that the resource concentration mechanism we call civilization would not exist without slavery. That was it.

Maybe when you're talking about civilization, you mean the art and culture aspect of it. The good stuff. The stuff that comes after the bad stuff. Many people have contributed to that. What I'm talking is the other side of civilization, which is far more violent in nature. The way that America wouldn't exist without the slavery and genocide.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
61. And before the resident Slavery scholars pipe in with ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:06 PM
Jul 2015

"And they had slavery in Africa, too"

Let me just get that out the way:

Slavery in Africa was wholly different from slavery in the Americas ... primarily because slavery in Africa was not life-long, nor was it inter-generational; slaves in Africa frequently inter-MARRIED with the capturing tribe; slaves in Africa; slaves in Africa were an esteemed and respected part of society, not stigmatized property.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
103. Before they keep going back to slavery - can we get up to 1919?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jul 2015


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer_(1919)

I'd like to see some of these people TRY to tell us blacks did it too. All this hand wringing over Ferguson and Baltimore since last summer -

And yet it wasn't three dozen cities.

And black folks didn't go around castrating, hanging, tarring and feathering white folks because I don't know -


They woke up that morning and thought it would be fun.


All they've got is 'slavery' 1strong. They will always back away from The New Jim Crow. They know there is not one single equivalent in the world. Not one.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
114. Nope ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jul 2015
They woke up that morning and thought it would be fun.



Nope ... to defense the virtue of white womens! It was their DUTY!

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
127. American slavery was uniquely based on white supremacy rather than class or circumstances.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:41 PM
Jul 2015

Other countries enslave the conquered, the poor or those of other religions. American slavery was based and has continued in less obvious ways *legally* based on race.

The reason black people are targeted is that they are not keeping their *rightful place* by not wearing shackles. So something is connived to make sure that they are put back into shackles again, one way or the other.

It's not about economics, jobs, poverty or religion. Those are just symptoms of the cancer of racism. The mental landscape of black oppressors is the belief they are the inferior 'Other.'

Economics was not the reason for the Civil War, not in the minds of Confederate leaders. It was about race. They also believed women were born incompetent to vote or control what their lives would be.

This is part of the philosophical basis of the Confederacy and all the racist actions that later occured. They believed that the Founders of the USA were out of their minds to believe 'all men are created equal.'

From their bigoted stance, they decided Africans had a role for life. As well as women. And they were the only ones fit to be in charge of government. The actions of the GOP now openly display these beliefs when they restrict voting, get a big happy about lynching PBO, with sovereign citizen groups, the Tenther squads, and believe their guns are their god-given right to protect them from 'the blacks.' Their conspiracy fans preach everything about the founding of this country is a banker plot. They're unwilling to admit the diversion.

But are willing to take us back to before the USConstitution was written to maintain a failed philosophy. They will not win in the end, even in bloodshed, and they are terrified.

Whites in Europe saw when they sailed around the world, that they were a minority and it's why they feel like victims. They could have done better by cooperating with natives, freed and distributed land in the era after the Civil War, but no, they kept to their belief system. All has followed their mindset.

Just a few thoughts, Strong.

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
142. Thank you for your excellent post.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:44 AM
Jul 2015


I found this series enlightening....sorry for the low quality but it is YouTube...

Great thread!

This video is 1 of 3
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
132. Here is a primer out of the University of Colorada ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:49 PM
Jul 2015

not a comprehensive one; but, a starting place.

I will look on my book shelf and find a better reference.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,234 posts)
91. Someone with an itchy alert finger didn't like your tone. Jury disagreed.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:44 PM
Jul 2015
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:37 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Isn't mind boggling? Civilization began in Africa. These racists here don't know shit!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6957040

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

How can we let this go. Calling another DUer THAT HAS A OPINION ABOUT CIVILIZATION a racist. We cannot have discussions on this site as long as we let post like this stand. Please, let's try to be civil, no matter what we are discussing. Please hide.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:40 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh. Both sides are overheated. Not unusual in such discussions.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: no
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An observation that racists don't know what they're talking about deserves a hide? I think not.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It could have been said in a better way.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alert

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
95. Where did he call someone a racist?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jul 2015

*sigh* Having an opinion about an opinion is not the same thing as calling someone racist.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
121. Oh, I knew that a long time ago. But you have just got another mark against you!
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 05:35 PM
Jul 2015
First: You are... uh, blah... according to Sanctorum.

Second: You are female. Well, just ask any Republican and obviously to some others, how big a problem that is.

Third: As a... uh, blah... female you are subject to more than the other two combined. Subject to... you know.

Love you! Keep on kicking tail!

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
122. LMAO!! Oh, but of course. I gotta love Sanitarium, though. He's the best racist ReThug out there...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 05:51 PM
Jul 2015

...though Cruz and "Chump" are up there, too.

Thanks for the kind words.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
154. NMBirder and AverageJoe90 were perfect examples of this
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 07:42 AM
Jul 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6957040



53. Isn't mind boggling? Civilization began in Africa. These racists here don't know shit!

example of a racist at DU - who just got the boot - NMBirder
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118718123

his transparency page:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=305302&sub=trans

His profile:  http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=305302

He was here since June 25, 2013 - took two years to weed him out.

What LS responded to uses the language of - "but they did it first. Blame the black people. We should atone  for something that happened thousands of years ago because it's relevant to the US today" (it's not).

There are bigots and racists and homophobes and anti Semitics and sexists at DU.  Lately I'm starting to think there are a lot of ageists who feel our boomers and silents are in the way.  These folks - it takes two years to weed out.  In the meantime - we are tasked with being tolerant and polite about ignorance and stupidity because that's all you can do with a polite bigot who smiles in your face and gets nervous when they see a black person walking down their street.  Those types are at DU.

Her statement is correct.  I thought the alert was about 1Strongblackman - because he could write- "Good morning! The sky is blue! " And he will get a hide for being mean, calling people out, accusing people who don't like blue skies of being colorists against people who prefer gray skies and rainy days.
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
156. But she wasn't talking about either of those people. Rather, The2ndWheel was the target
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 12:38 PM
Jul 2015

She flat-out called him a racist.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
157. Take it to admin
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 01:37 PM
Jul 2015
I don't run things around here.

DU is becoming tit for tat.

And his statements were sketchy. Jmho - but sketchy as hell!
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
158. I figure the2ndwheel can do it, if he's bothered by it
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:08 PM
Jul 2015

I'm just here to inform you that your claim that she didn't call him a racist, was blindingly, obviously, undeniably wrong.

And no, actually. He seemed to be making a point about civilization and its apparent need for exploited labor. I would strongly recommend picking up Derrick Jensen's "Endgame" for a relevant critique of "civilization."

Response to lovemydog (Reply #135)

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
108. Sometimes I'm just happy that I don't live next door to folks
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:56 PM
Jul 2015

So I don't have to rub shoulders. I can just chit chat with them on the internet and be done. I don't have to smile at them or be polite in real life.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
112. I had someone post something yesterday ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:03 PM
Jul 2015

that makes this thread, pale in comparison ... Did you know that "a lot of white folks are harmed more than helped by institutional racism."

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #112)

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
51. I thought Ed's OP was referring to
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:54 PM
Jul 2015

Slavery in America.

It's not that I'm unsympathetic to the plight of other people elsewhere because I'm not, it's still wrong, but it's not the subject of the op.

Same with a poster downthread that brought up the fact Africans sold off other Africans into slavery. Which countries in Africa I don't know.

Although I'm sure it happened, I can't compare it to what white folks did to our ancestors here in the U.S.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
63. Unless the OP was around a few hundred years ago
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:10 PM
Jul 2015

He's throwing out an empty apology for something he didn't do. If you're going to go down that road, you might as well keep going back, and apologize for a whole host of issues. Nothing started in America. Go back and apologize for the first guy that figured out he could get someone else to do a hell of a lot of free work if he threated him with pain and death. That's where it all started.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
72. ACtually what we should do is pay reparations and consider ourselves lucky that is all we have to do
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jul 2015

randys1

(16,286 posts)
88. Tax everyone, including those who will benefit, then pay reparations to
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:40 PM
Jul 2015

AfAm, Japense Am, Native Am

Tax the hell out of rich people no matter who they are and corps.

Then pay...you can work out the details


BTW, probably wouldnt do it in checks for individuals, would do it in community methods

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
169. how about this plan
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 11:29 AM
Jul 2015

how about all modern day business interests and multi-billionaire families who have documented links to businesses that profited off the labor of slaves during 'The American Slave Era' have to pay reparations to documented families of american slaves. If a business like I.G.Farben, in Germany, could possibly be forced to pay reparations to documented families of their WW2 slave labor force, it is no real stretch to me that american businesses and multi-billionaire families linked to slavery and to the slave trade could be singled out to have to pay for their ill-gotten gain. These families and businesses made huge profits off the labor of and traffic in human bondage, misery, tragedy and degradation. They need to pay reparations now. The slave trader families who contributed to the genocide of millions during, just say 'The Middle Passage' and are living in luxury today, need to pay reparations now.

This not an original proposition, but given the continuing nature of racism as exemplified by just the recent "suspicious" death of Sandra Bland in the waller county, TEXAS jail, by hanging, and the summary executions of unarmed children, women and men of color in this country since say just, Trayvon Martin, reparations is not a stretch. The killer citizens of unarmed POC, like roof and zimmerman and murderous LEO's who's racism can be linked to the Slavery Era and post slavery old and new Jim Crow segregationist laws, thought and action in america are proof of the continuing racist mentality in american culture. Given that this is truth, this type of proposal must be continuously put forth by interested and concerned citizens who take umbrage at the continued insult of racism in the form of these murders in the streets and churches of america. And the continuing insult by people who revere the sheet wearing "night riders" and their modern day confederate flag waving clowns and buffoons who are murdering slavery's descendants of color everyday. The reparations need to be started now.

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
73. No. Just because you're selling doesn't mean I must buy.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jul 2015

We're talking about good ole American Slavery.

Eta same applies to Mr. Well The African's Did It downthread here.

Quayblue

(1,045 posts)
111. It was talking about slavery in America.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:02 PM
Jul 2015

I have more to say but I'm in the middle of coding something and don't want to get riled up. bbl

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
15. Racial collective guilt is unhealthy
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:11 PM
Jul 2015

You don't need to appologise for anything that you didn't do.

Are you sorry for the holocaust too?
Are you sorry for the opium war?
Are you sorry for the crusades, inquisition, systemic oppression of non-Christians...

Or does your desire for racial collective guilt only extend to stuff your read a couple books about while attending college

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
19. Expressing sorrow is I believe, wholly different than making an apology.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jul 2015

Expressing sorrow is I believe, wholly different than making an apology. Yes, I do feel sorrow (i.e., I am sorry) for the holocaust, the crusades, the opium wars, et. al.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
20. I'm saddened that you had to take a dig at my reading "a couple books while attending college"
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:47 PM
Jul 2015

that resulted in some sort of increased sense of empathy for a people that we brutally exploited.

If my dad raped your son/daughter, I'd be very sorry for what he did to him you and yours. If my grandfather hung your brother, I'd be very sorry for what he did to you and yours. If my great grandfather hunted your grandfather down, tarred and feathered him, strung him up over a fire in the town square while all of my great grandfather's friends made a social event out of watching the man put to death by being raised and lowered over the fire until slow cooked till death, I'd be so sorry for what my great grandfather did.

I am sorry. You don't have to be, I am sorry, and that is all I'm claiming.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
23. My family came from Europe to avoid the holocaust...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:00 PM
Jul 2015

My white priviledge apparently doesn't include not having to think about my family being enslaved and marched to the death camps.

You can feel anything you want to feel about your great great great grandparents crimes. I don't bear any collective racial guilt for crimes that other people committed.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
137. Nobody is talking about guilt.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:39 PM
Jul 2015

They are talking about compassion, and empathy derived from knowledge of the history of African Americans.

If you feel guilty, that's on you.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
38. What was the U.S. government's involvement in ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:34 PM
Jul 2015

the holocaust, the opium war, the crusades, inquisition, systemic oppression of non-Christians.

And, how did any of those shape the current state of the United States?

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
41. Well let me see - Am I sorry for the holocaust - as a German American - yes. Am I sorry for
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:37 PM
Jul 2015

the opium wars - since I do not know if I have any direct link to the benefits of that war - no. Am I sorry for the crusades - since I have one of the real abusers during the crusades in my family tree - yes. The inquisition - since I am Christian - yes. The systematic oppression of non-Christians - connected through the holocaust, the ME wars - yes.

I am not so much personally sorry but I am recognizing that I have some connection to the events in the past and I am condemning those acts for what they are - WRONG. We tend to waltz our way through history as if it has nothing to do with us. That is one of the reasons I started doing genealogy - to make sure that my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren would understand that they are part of history - both the good and the bad.

I am sorry that we tolerated and defended slavery for so long. I am especially sorry that we are still doing it.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
17. So am i
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:19 PM
Jul 2015

And because of the fact that I have benefitted from it, no matter how indirectly, I consider it my obligation to fight it's ugly legacy of racism.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
18. Africans bear a huge responsibility for slave trade as well.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:38 PM
Jul 2015

Yes, I am sorry.

But they should be held accountable as well.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
22. results of my alert
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:00 PM
Jul 2015

Apparently enough DUERS have bought into the racist slavery apologist talking points to keep this offensive post here:
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert

On Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:47 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

Africans bear a huge responsibility for slave trade as well.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6956723

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

I think it's pretty apparent is it not? Total racist talking points on slavery

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:51 AM, and voted3-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I would offer counter-arguments to the Poster, and explain why I disagree and where I am getting my information, not hide and mute the Poster.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: BAN WORTHY!!!

HIDE IT, OF COURSE.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Not only racist but historically incorrect! Take your racist bullshit elsewhere. Sick of racism on DU! It's ridiculous to put up with this as a person of color. DU moderators: DO SOMETHING ABOUT RACISM ON DU!!!!!!
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is true I'm afraid. We shouldn't hide truths that are unpleasant, and I don't think the poster meant it in a racist way.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
27. Not much to elaborate.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:11 PM
Jul 2015

Racist slavery apologist talking points. Apparently enough jurors agree and let it stand.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
30. Really? Acknowleging BOTH sides of the slave trade
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:17 PM
Jul 2015

actually makes slavery 100 times more horrifying than just talking about European culpability (which was vast).

These people were victimized by all sides...their countrymen and the Europeans.

How pointing that out equates to 'slavery apology' is beyond me...

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
33. Whatever
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:29 PM
Jul 2015

It's so easy to toss out clichés without saying why what I posted is incorrect, isn't it?

daleanime

(17,796 posts)
163. Your post was too vague to be correct or incorrect....
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 04:27 PM
Jul 2015

the devil is in the details, and you provide none.

blm

(113,065 posts)
35. Those slave traders in Africa weren't from nations founded on the basis of individual
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:31 PM
Jul 2015

freedom.

This nation's Constitution and our laws didn't extend to other countries.

We should only deal with what was done in OUR NATION, and OUR citizens and industries who were PAYING for the men, women, and children of Africa.

To try and make it equal in our concern is to further a RW talking point, whether you are aware of it or not.

 

Man of Distinction

(109 posts)
43. This was alerted on...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:44 PM
Jul 2015

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:22 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Really? Acknowleging BOTH sides of the slave trade
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6956898

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

And again. Now using false equivalence to justify racist slavery apologist talking points?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:42 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: poster's initial comment was overly terse and provocative, probably deliberately so; later explanation (see post #25) clarifies. this is a substantive issue and a substantive discussion, worth having. the fact that there were people in africa who profited from slave trade doesn't justify slavery, nor does it blame the victim as it draws a distinction between slaves and their betrayers in africa. again, the initial post was problematic because the term "africans" muddles this all-important distinction. but again, post #25 clarifies.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: this post, in and of itself, is not hideworthy
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a repeat of the previous attack which was left alone. Nothing wrong with this post, alerter seems a bit sensitive. LEAVE IT ALONE
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There ares some posts in this series I would vote to hide - this one isn't one of them. Address your concerns in the thread.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I'm juror #5. The alert troll has his alert button suspended for 24 hours as a result.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
75. There is that...White privilege allows some to simply not see what is SEARED into your brain
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:22 PM
Jul 2015

here at DU daily.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
123. You guys need to cut this "racist" crap.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:02 PM
Jul 2015

Not agreeing with you on something doesn't make people racists.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
124. trying to absolve responsibility for slavery
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:40 PM
Jul 2015

By saying "Africans did it too" is racist bullshit that has no place on this board.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
128. Really
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:44 PM
Jul 2015

Jerks who would sell out their countrymen is nowhere near on the level of a country founded on our ideals that *institutionized* it.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
167. post #164
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:18 AM
Jul 2015

for you too. **sigh** "Ideals?" Yes. Reality? Hell no, wasn't no stinking ideal especially for the First-american nations people or black-brown people brought here to be worked to death as slaves.... it called genocide.....geez the levels of historical ignorance being shown is truly depressing.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
168. Sorry, I thought I was agreeing - I said "ideals," not reality.
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:27 AM
Jul 2015

I am fully aware this country was founded on slavery and genocide, regardless of what was spoken or written. But there were some pretty good ideals spoken and written, which makes the reality worse, IMHO.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
166. In this case of
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:13 AM
Jul 2015

who was alerted on, it makes them ignorant and look very stupid. That individual doesn't agree from a learned point of view, just a knee jerk white point of view when confronted with the truth about the HUGE WHITE culpability and responsibility for the forced bondage and murder of millions of Africans from many areas of the continent. 99.999% of the responsibility (post #164) based on true facts of history, no RW revisionism or white privilege coloring(forgive the pun) the truth. The one alerted on? Doesn't know jack about history. I do. Nothing racist in slapping that type of ignorance into the dirt.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
164. well, I can see
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:58 AM
Jul 2015

RW revisionist history has struck home. Geez...."Destruction of Black Civilization", had very little to do with the tribal groups selling each other to the white slave trader. The Arabs were hugely involved in the slave trade,(the Africans captured if not muslim were heathen-non believers who to them were not worthy of human respect, Portuguese, Dutch, British, French, and american slave traders did 99.999 of capture, bringing to the coast for trans-atlantic shipping, responsible for up to 12 millions deaths during the 'Middle Passage' and the brutality on the slave plantations in america and elsewhere. But evidently that doesn't matter to a lot here who know nothing of THEIR real culpability, historically speaking, of the perpetuation of human bondage and the racist problems faced by this country alone in the 21st century......just had to get that truth off my chest to the 'enlightened' ones here.. Here at DU...has opened my eyes and strengthened my awareness of just how deeply people are immersed in their fallacious historical knowledge

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
48. I assume that you are talking about the fact that the slaves were often sold by other Afican tribes
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:51 PM
Jul 2015

to the slavers who brought them over here to sell. I think that a lot of people think that our slave ships went over there and ran off into the wilds to catch as many natives as they could. Wrong - there were wars between tribes and many of the slaves were prisoners captured during these wars and sold to the slavers in the ships.

That does not absolve those in our country who allowed the slave system in the first place.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
52. I struggled responding to this line of "reasoning"; so I will just recommend that ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:55 PM
Jul 2015

you read more about Slavery in America.

Hopefully, you will grow beyond, "But they had a hand in it, too!"

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
62. I'm sorry you felt you had to censor yourself
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:08 PM
Jul 2015

And I doubt the poster has any interest in learning about it.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
71. I have too many recent hides ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jul 2015

perhaps if this had been posted last month or next month, it would be different; but, when I get a hide for responding that a DUer's response showed my argument went completely over his/her head (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=428974) ... one can't be to careful.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
76. Yes, there are some who want to silence you and anyone who supports you so live to
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:24 PM
Jul 2015

fight another day and be very careful.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
107. I agree.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:56 PM
Jul 2015

As one juror said: we cannot just hide the truth if we don't like it.

There is much written about the slave trade, and that is part of it.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
149. No, they did not enslave or sell their countrymen
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:57 PM
Jul 2015

Waring tribes traded captives. They were not the same people or tribe and often spoke different languages. Moreover, they were not the ones that reaped tremendous profit from the slave trade. That was Europeans.

Slavery had existed in North African and Sub-Saharan African before the Transatlantic trade and Atlantic Slavery. The institution was very different from slaver as it developed in the Americas. It was not permanent or racial, and not nearly so brutal.

Your point that responsibility for slavery falls upon Africans blames those who suffered from it.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
25. Thank you Juror #4. You get it.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:09 PM
Jul 2015

I abhor slavery.

But now it's racist to acknowledge history? African-Americans didn't just suddenly become slaves when they showed up on our shores.

***********************************************************************

African participation in the slave trade

Africans played a direct role in the slave trade, selling their captives or prisoners of war to European buyers.[21] The prisoners and captives who were sold were usually from neighbouring or enemy ethnic groups.[9] These captive slaves were considered "other", not part of the people of the ethnic group or "tribe" ; African kings held no particular loyalty to them. Sometimes criminals would be sold so that they could no longer commit crimes in that area. Most other slaves were obtained from kidnappings, or through raids that occurred at gunpoint through joint ventures with the Europeans.[21] But some African kings refused to sell any of their captives or criminals. King Jaja of Opobo, a former slave, refused to do business with the slavers completely. However, Shahadah notes that with the rise of a large commercial slave trade driven by European needs, enslaving enemies became less a consequence of war, and more and more a reason to go to war.[9]

European participation in the slave trade

Although Europeans were the market for slaves, Europeans rarely entered the interior of Africa, due to fear of disease and fierce African resistance.[50] The enslaved people would be brought to coastal outposts where they would be traded for goods. Enslavement became a major by-product of internal wars in Africa as nation states expanded through military conflicts, in many cases through deliberate sponsorship of benefiting Western European nations.[citation needed] During such periods of rapid state formation or expansion (Asante and Dahomey being good examples), slavery formed an important element of political life which the Europeans exploited: as Queen Sara's plea to the Portuguese courts revealed, the system became "sell to the Europeans or be sold to the Europeans".[citation needed] In Africa, convicted criminals could be punished by enslavement, a punishment which became more prevalent as slavery became more lucrative. Since most of these nations did not have a prison system, convicts were often sold or used in the scattered local domestic slave market.[51]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#African_participation_in_the_slave_trade

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
56. I tried to write a response to that thread ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:57 PM
Jul 2015

and couldn't get anything out (that would have allowed for my continued presence).

Thank you ... that will do!

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
78. I see you are getting some real shitty alerts.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:26 PM
Jul 2015

Unfortunately too many people are taking the low road here. I think you are a lightening rod for those who cannot figure out why Sanders has made no real inroads with the black community. This reminds me of the idiocy in corporate America- if you speak up about an issue at work- you shatter their illusion of perfection, and someone might actually have to ba accountable for fixing it. Can't have that.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
45. It makes sense from an "this is our particular history" point of view
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:45 PM
Jul 2015

But if you look at it in a more big picture continuum sort of way, it becomes more difficult to assign blame, because morality is not easy. Which makes it all much more relative and subjective, dependent on the context of time and place, and it's difficult for human beings to accept that. That's why we measure things, label things. It's easier to deal with.

We want some sort of control over a given situation. That control, that certainty, is elusive. But dammit if the sun doesn't rise in the east every morning. Even though, there is clearly no such thing as east, or west, and the sun is clearly not rising or setting. A year is based on how far we are from a star. What we think of as a year doesn't actually exist anywhere other than our minds. There's no such thing as July, the 9th of July, Thursday, or 1:30pm. It's easier to get up out of bed everyday if we focus on the parts rather than the whole.

Slavery is bad, which it is, except for those that benefited from it, which isn't only white people, even if they did benefit the most, at least in this country, in recent history. There's been slavery for a long time, even before Europeans started conquering the world. If we can at least blame someone, then it gives a sense of control. It's tough to blame some random African king from a few hundred years ago, when you don't live every day with the legacy of his particular role in the slave trade.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
50. I'm Juror #3 and I'm afraid that there are so many racists here on DU that this place will become...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:53 PM
Jul 2015

like Storm Front eventually.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
81. And the long winded explanations of why slavery, while sort of bad, really is blah blah blah
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jul 2015

Anyone who's great grandmother was raped 3 times a week by their OWNER or their great grandfather was beaten to death by their OWNER for not bringing the water fast enough, might not be very patient with long winded explanations of why it is a complicated topic.

NOPE

Not a fucking thing complicated about it AT ALL

Was wrong, very wrong, and reparations, yes MONEY, is due.

and it is due NOW

 

Reter

(2,188 posts)
151. I wasn't on the jury, but I wouldn't hide it
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 12:02 AM
Jul 2015

I have heard that before, so I don't know if it's true or not. Could be. Could be not. When in doubt, leave it. Those jurors may have been sincere and not racists.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
44. Wrong.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 01:44 PM
Jul 2015
http://mondediplo.com/1998/04/02africa

Coastal African heads of states were gradually brow-beaten into accepting the inevitable from the outsized and brutal forces of the Europeans. Africa in general resisted.



Clearly, the ideological weapons used to justify the slave trade reflected neither the reality nor the dynamics of African society. Africans, like all other peoples, had no particular liking for slavery. Slavery was generated and maintained by a specific system. While the revolts of black slaves during the Atlantic crossing and in America are well documented, there is much less awareness of the scale and diversity of resistance to slavery within Africa. Both to the Atlantic slave trade as such and to the slavery in Africa which it induced or aggravated.

One long neglected source is Lloyd’s List. It throws unexpected light on the rejection of the slave trade in the African coastal societies. It is packed full of details of damage to vessels insured by the famous London company from its foundation in 1689. The figures show that in more than 17% of cases, the damage was due to local rebellion or plundering in Africa. The perpetrators of these revolts were the slaves themselves, assisted by the coastal population. It is as if there were two separate interests at work: the interest of states that had allowed themselves to become incorporated in the slavery system, and the interest of free peoples who were under constant threat of enslavement and were moved to act in solidarity with those already reduced to slavery.

As for slavery within African society itself, everything appears to indicate that it grew in parallel with the Atlantic slave trade and was reinforced by it. It similarly gave rise to many forms of resistance: flight, open rebellion, and recourse to the protection afforded by religion (attested in both Islamic and Christian countries). In the Senegal valley, for example, the attempts by certain monarchs to enslave and sell their own subjects gave rise, at the end of the 17th century, to the Marabout war and the Toubenan movement (from the word tuub, meaning to convert to Islam). Its founder, Nasir al-Din, proclaimed that “God does not permit kings to pillage, kill or enslave their peoples. He appointed them, on the contrary, to preserve their subjects and protect them from their enemies. Peoples were not made for kings, but kings for peoples.”

Further south, in what is now Angola, the Kongo peoples invoked Christianity in the same way, both against the missionaries, who were compromised in the slave trade, and against the local powers. At the beginning of the 18th century a prophetess in her twenties, Kimpa Vita (also known as Doña Beatrice), turned the slave traders’ racist arguments on their head and began to preach that “there are no Blacks or Whites in heaven” and that “Jesus Christ and other saints are black and come from the Congo”. Similar appeals to religion are still a feature of demands for freedom and equality in various parts of Africa. Clearly, the slave trade was far from marginal. It is central to modern African history, and resistance to it engendered attitudes and practices that have persisted to the present day.

<snip>

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
84. the title Ending the Slavery "Blame Game" explains their POV completely- it's a game, or card played
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:35 PM
Jul 2015

to many here who cannot even begin to empathize with POC. You see it every day here lately.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
105. It's an abdication from the responsibility we have as US society to make whole the harm from racism.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:55 PM
Jul 2015

Gates also highlights the role the chiefs and warlords had in slavery, which is just what everyone knows in studying the history of the slave trade. Unfortunately, he seemed to conclude from that this made them equally culpable, which is wrong. Also, a few kings were not "Africa", as the article that I linked to showed. The country itself resisted and several of those kings faced political unrest from their own citizens as a result.

He was writing an Op-Ed against reparations though, which some white people lunged at to support their own positions on responsibility for the entire slave trade on the European side.

(The NYT published letters from outstanding scholars to rebut Gates' conclusions. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/opinion/l26slavery.html)

Yes, it's a game here we see everyday. Infuriating.



JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
155. I agree - let me knock you over with a feather
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 08:03 AM
Jul 2015

The debt is owed for the American Experience (unique to America) of Jim Crow. Don't you dare try and compare it to the colonial imposition in South Africa. The black people in South Africa were not imported goods.

Tahesi Coates would agree with me.

That's a stain on the soul of this country of which the impact continues today.

It's about Jim Crow.

Certainly - you would agree that Jim Crow is an American Experience? You should watch the PBS documentary The African Americans. Gates set up white Americans with the article you linked to - with a powerful sucker punch a few years later.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
86. I was wondering where you went.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:37 PM
Jul 2015

Here, have a coke.

Searching through a haystack is thirsty work.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
89. your posts about Africa, Africans or African Americans are not needles in a haystack
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jul 2015

oh how I wish they were.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
94. Being concerned about Ebola transmissions
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jul 2015

in the middle of an unprecedented epidemic is just crazy, I know.

You might also want to note the date on that post, in a sense of fairness, of course.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
104. It appears we were having a perfectly rational discussion in the ebola thread
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jul 2015

Right until you showed up.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
96. He has a whole dossier on me
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jul 2015

Feel free to leaf through.

I can only assume he hasn't shared it with Admin.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
74. We can put you in charge of going to Africa and arranging for reparations, in the meantime
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:20 PM
Jul 2015

we here in America need to pay big time.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
150. You DO NOT
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 11:28 PM
Jul 2015

Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:30 AM - Edit history (1)

know a damn thing of history. Destruction of Black Civilization..........has nothing to do with Africans. "Africans bear a huge responsibility for the slave trade". That's a point of view that has historical ignorance and possibly racism as it's basis. Man the stuff I've learned about so called liberals and progressives here at DU is the same I learned about liberals and progressives in the 60's. Hasn't changed just gotten slicker in wordage and worse. Please stop the insults.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
165. Hey genius!!!!
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:05 AM
Jul 2015

response #164 is all you need to understand about the historical ignorance this comment is steeped in. You should be banned from a liberal, progressive, I think, forum such as this. But you're not, so I would suggest you learn history first before making yourself look so ignorant concerning who is truly culpable in slave trading history. White privileged thinking does that I think. Naw I don't think, I know......

panader0

(25,816 posts)
65. In my Black studies class (1968) we also read Leroy Jones (now Amiri Baraka)
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jul 2015

'Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note', and Eldridge Cleaver's 'Soul On Ice'.
But, after being raised as an Air Force officer's son (very, very few black AF officers then), my best race education came
because I had a black roommate. We became good friends, double dated, as our girlfriends were buddies.
The small group of black students at my college hung out in our room. We sat up many evenings, talking race, politics and music.
I too feel great shame by the crimes committed by our white forefathers, and not only against Black People.
It continues today, against Blacks, Browns, Islamics, Asians, and Native Americans. There is still so far to go.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
80. I read Howard Zinn on how slaves were transported, and "packed." I still gasp for air
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jul 2015

when I think about it. It was that cruel.

Response to Hoyt (Reply #80)

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
92. Now Read: The New Jim Crow
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jul 2015
http://newjimcrow.com/

And The Warmth of Other Suns - http://isabelwilkerson.com/the-book/

There's no "but Africans did it too!" there.

They can't. They are both an American Experience.

They might TRY to say "buuuuuuuuut South Africaaaaaaaaaa" - again - they are wrong.

Rwanda - different too.

Not even Brazil or Canada.

That's the next step on your journey.

Now if you want to read an interesting book about Africa - fiction - read Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe. Of course someone will try and say - "But why didn't he write it about Germany!!!!"

Cool op - thanks for sharing your experience.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
116. There is an abundant amount of documentation supporting reparations which would bring much
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 03:50 PM
Jul 2015

needed accountability and restitution for the horrific legacy of slavery.

MuseRider

(34,111 posts)
118. My ancestors fought for Free State Kansas
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 04:41 PM
Jul 2015

and I continue those same sentiments.

I apologize. Even if my ancestors did not own slaves or condone slavery. It does not matter. What happened never ceases to amaze me in the depth of it's cruelty and the inability to see others as the same. How this could have happened and the reasons it did are not acceptable or understandable. Why we have not gotten any further with our relations makes no sense to me at all.

I wish there was more I could do.

Response to Ed Suspicious (Original post)

akbacchus_BC

(5,704 posts)
141. Just to let you know that not only blacks were in slavery!
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:43 AM
Jul 2015

When the coal mines in America started, children who could walk were put into the coal mines, once they could walk, they can carry two pieces of coal.

After slavery, the Brits tried Portugese and China as a substitute, that did not work as the conditions in the Caribbean was too hot for people of clear skinned. Then the British Raj was in India and Indians became indentured and sent to the Caribbean and Malaysia.

The conditions after slavery were not different for the Indians but by that time Anglican missionaries were going down to the Caribbean to convert the natives and it were the missionaries who reported to the UK that the indentured servants (Indians were treated poorly). Then the British Raj stopped sending Indians to the Caribbean unless living conditions were improved. I know this as am into politics and I was working on Walter Rodney's book on Indian Indentureship when he was killed.

The things that corporations do to enslave people is mind boggling! Now it is endless wars!

akbacchus_BC

(5,704 posts)
143. You cannot apologise for something that you were not a part
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:56 AM
Jul 2015

of! It is just mind boggling that a race feels that it can treat another race as cattle!

Slavery is the worst thing on earth and when you read books like Roots, you just cry and cry. Then you read another book about a white guy experiencing what it is to be black in America and you cry over and over again. You ask yourself, what gave a race to dehumanise another race.

And it comes full circle, the killings at that Church of 9 people who were stalwarts in their community and you ask your self why people are so racist. You cut me and cut you, we have the same blood. It is really sad

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
144. Wait a minute. Now I'm not the smartest guy in the room, pretty much ever, but I hear people say
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:04 AM
Jul 2015

things like "I'm sorry for your loss." all the time. I'm sorry that Africans and later African Americans have been through hell. Why is that such an abhorrent concept for so many in this thread?

akbacchus_BC

(5,704 posts)
145. All am saying is that you do not have to apologise for what your ancestors did!
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:12 AM
Jul 2015

You have a good heart and you show empathy, which is great. Rest assured, I admire your post but you are not responsible for your ancestors actions.

That's all! You are a nice person and thanks for the empathy

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
146. Thanks. I appreciate what you are saying, but if it's good enough for the Pope . . .
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 03:42 AM
Jul 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141142065

"In the speech, Francis noted that Latin American church leaders in the past had acknowledged that “grave sins were committed against the native peoples of America in the name of God.” St. John Paul II, for his part, apologized to the continent’s indigenous for the “pain and suffering” caused during the 500 years of the church’s presence in the Americas during a 1992 visit to the Dominican Republic."

 

philosslayer

(3,076 posts)
171. Being sorry for something and apologizing are two different things
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 04:01 PM
Jul 2015

"I'm sorry for your loss" means I'm sympathetic to what you've suffered

"I apologize for your loss" means I had something to do with it and am regretful.

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
147. Things you should never feel guilty for: Being horny and stuff your ancestors did.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 04:05 AM
Jul 2015

I learned that emancipating myself from the influence of the Catholic church.

The secular left has its own version of original sin.

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
160. I'd be ok with a reparations program
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 03:33 PM
Jul 2015

It might actually be very good for the economy: injecting billions of dollars into the hands of people who will be more likely to spend it.

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