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marym625

(17,997 posts)
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:00 AM Jul 2015

“OK, so what would convince you that racism is real?”

A great article by Adam Mansbach, author of the NYT best seller, Go The Fuck To Sleep.

It's long but a great read. Very interesting to see the differences in the "reality" of different people, for different reasons.



One of the pleasures of getting older and making a living the way you want to is that your social circle becomes rarified and the people who enter have been vetted. When I was in my twenties, shady-ass characters routinely found their way into my life and my apartment. With some regularity, friends revealed themselves as liars, or misogynists, or big Master P fans, and I stopped seeing them.


This is a miniscule cohort, invisible on the national radar, but for all intents and purposes it’s the sum total of my white community. I don’t know any of the white people who keep showing up in all those incredibly depressing studies and statistics—the ones that reveal a typical white person’s “real life social network” is 1% black, or that a majority of whites in this country believe “anti-white bias” is a bigger problem than racism, or that less than half of whites believe the grand juries should have indicted the killer cops in Ferguson or Staten Island, or that Barack Obama lost the white vote in both 2008 and 2012.

I didn’t look any of that up just now; I keep facts like this handy because I’m a dude who speaks about race and whiteness and politics in public sometimes and I like to stay strapped. But I’ve constructed a life and a career that keeps me completely isolated from those white people—“real” white people. I don’t even have awkward Thanksgiving conversations with some crotchety old-fuck uncle who thinks the president is a secret Muslim.


I told Jessie she was ignoring the empirical in favor of the anecdotal, and what a fraught and dangerous path that was. I tried to get her to understand how intensely personal this was for me, how unjust policing and trials and sentencing had destroyed friends’ lives and compromised our entire generation.  We did history and anthropology and philosophy.  It was heated and intense and the angrier I get the better I argue. Eventually I felt good enough about where we’d gotten, the progress we’d made, to go upstairs and sleep with her.

But it wasn't really okay. ...


It was a summer of fucking and civic unrest, and of thinking about 1981. I was researching Obama’s time at Columbia University for a screenplay I’d been hired to write, reading everything I could get my hands on about that relatively opaque and unsettled period of his life. One of the jewels— the kind of line you can’t even use, because it’s too on-the-nose—was that his white girlfriend, Genevieve Cook, had broken up with young Barry by telling him that what he needed was a “strong black woman.” There was a strange duality for me, in watching the strained, embattled man calling for calm on my television screen—the soon-to-be lame duck president whose tenure, whose very being, had kicked the hornets’ nest of American racism far harder than any of us had come close to anticipating—and trying to project myself backward in time and understand who Obama had been when he was only slightly older than Mike Brown.


I mumbled something like yeah, you’ve been silenced, it’s a real fucking injustice. I probably could have done better; I could have acknowledged that sometimes being white and not an asshole is tricky and will challenge your intuitive sense of fairness or equality or the value or your own opinion and that on the grand scale of problems all of that is ultimately fucking hilarious. That sometimes your opinion and perspective truly are less important, and asserting otherwise is an #AllLivesMatter-esque form of trolling, an attempt to level a playing field that’s already tilted in your direction, and such behavior could get you punched in the face if anybody had any energy for that shit, which they don’t because it’s so low on the list of things worth being irate about, such as the fact that black college graduates are less likely to be granted job interviews that white felons, or the fact that a police officer’s surest way to reap a six-figure financial windfall is to murder a black kid.


It's a very good look at a reality many of us would prefer not to face. It's worth the read.

Salon link OK, so what would convince you that racism is real?
23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
“OK, so what would convince you that racism is real?” (Original Post) marym625 Jul 2015 OP
How about a program to place a disadvantaged minority in a white home for capitalism libdem4life Jul 2015 #1
So, you are saying that the white family marym625 Jul 2015 #3
Sorry, it was "tongue in check". just the idea would send most into their visceral racial reality. libdem4life Jul 2015 #5
ah! marym625 Jul 2015 #6
Phew ... I was lacing up my boots for my response! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #7
Yikes...dodged that "bullet". libdem4life Jul 2015 #8
Or the other way around . . . brush Jul 2015 #9
I'm certainly serious about the racial aspect. I agree with your opinion. Even though mine was libdem4life Jul 2015 #10
+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #14
You're right about that. brush Jul 2015 #23
posted to for later 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #2
I think you'll like it marym625 Jul 2015 #4
I did ... I did! ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #12
beautiful! marym625 Jul 2015 #16
How about expert counseling to break through years of selective-memory remodeling of reality? Hortensis Jul 2015 #11
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #17
Very interesting. marym625 Jul 2015 #18
Feeling Jessie's frustration at not getting through, Mary, just less confused about why these days. Hortensis Jul 2015 #22
K&R raouldukelives Jul 2015 #13
Very true. marym625 Jul 2015 #19
For most white folks, having the tables turned on them KamaAina Jul 2015 #15
Sadly ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #20
Not really sure marym625 Jul 2015 #21
 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
1. How about a program to place a disadvantaged minority in a white home for capitalism
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:05 AM
Jul 2015

training and getting a job, say the last two years of high school. That would bring it out real quick. Even the thought of it...but I enjoyed it.

A bit silly, but it makes the point quit well, I believe.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
3. So, you are saying that the white family
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:23 AM
Jul 2015

Would see the racism if they had a black child in their home for a couple years while the kid worked?

Color me jade but I am pretty sure that the racism would be brought out more than the family understanding it better.

Or am I completely off the mark on what you meant?

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
5. Sorry, it was "tongue in check". just the idea would send most into their visceral racial reality.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:41 AM
Jul 2015

brush

(53,784 posts)
9. Or the other way around . . .
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:17 AM
Jul 2015

if you're serious — a white kid living his last two years of high school in a black household and going to the same high school as the black kids.

A disadvantage black kid living with a suburban white family would probably get the most immediate benefit but the white kid living with a black family, IMO, would get the most lasting life lessons.

The article is well worth the read, btw. And there is a url at the end where other similar material can be found.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
10. I'm certainly serious about the racial aspect. I agree with your opinion. Even though mine was
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:24 AM
Jul 2015

rhetorical. The intent was to measure the reaction, i.e. dormant racism, of PC white folk confronted with a black young man in their home. It's not entirely new...as it was briefly tried way back in trying to segregate white schools, but it did not work for many reasons.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
14. +1 ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:19 PM
Jul 2015

especially if the white kid lived with a non-poor Black family. If the white kid went to live with a poor Black family, everything but the most egregious conflict(?)/incident(?) would be viewed as poverty-based, as is so common here.

brush

(53,784 posts)
23. You're right about that.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:04 PM
Jul 2015

The white kid would learn different things in a middle class black family —or an affluent one for that matter, than with a poor black family.

All three would give the white kid a whole lot to chew on. He/she would have a tougher time sticking out two years in the latter case, and as you say, it would take a wise black family's counseling and a receptive kid to distinguish and separate the just plain racial issues that spring up from the purely economic ones.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
12. I did ... I did! ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:10 PM
Jul 2015

For some reason I can't excerpt passages to place here and comment on them. But there were two (or three) passages that, when taken together, ought to give people great pause to consider the/their "economic (in)justice and social (in)justice are the same thing" ... the former will birth the latter, position that appears on DU so frequently.

I'll have to wait until later ... If I remember, and depending on the direction this thread goes ... I'm learning (no, actually acknowledging and giving weight to) stuff about this place.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
11. How about expert counseling to break through years of selective-memory remodeling of reality?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:47 AM
Jul 2015

I engaged in way too many of these discussions before I came to understand that years of selective memory produce a lot of people who know they're right, who know that they're decent, rational and knowledgeable, and who know I"m a nut who is beyond reaching by reason.

Regarding this apparently inevitably brief relationship, studies show that ideological compatibility tops by far education and income, and no doubt other factors I don't remember, in how couples choose each other. Poor Jessie, already clueless before being accused of involvement in a racist situation in the bar. I felt her frustration like it was yesterday.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
17. LOL ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:25 PM
Jul 2015
I engaged in way too many of these discussions before I came to understand that years of selective memory produce a lot of people who know {Edit by 1SBM: they know more, they understand better; and therefore, know they're right, who know that they're decent, rational and knowledgeable, and who know I"m a nut who is beyond reaching by reason.


See a good number of the response I receive on DU!

marym625

(17,997 posts)
18. Very interesting.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:28 PM
Jul 2015

I didn't but I have certainly heard it often enough.

I'm not exactly sure if you are saying you see it now, "the light" so to speak, or you are feeling Jessie still.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. Feeling Jessie's frustration at not getting through, Mary, just less confused about why these days.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:49 PM
Jul 2015

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
13. K&R
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:19 PM
Jul 2015

It is very difficult to live a life in America today that doesn't increase the power and volume of those spreading the most hate and racism across the world.

It can be a difficult pill to swallow for people of any background. But none more so than those stepped in one of privilege and ignorance.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
19. Very true.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:29 PM
Jul 2015

This guy has said it better than any other white guy I have ever read. Or at least it spoke to me more

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
15. For most white folks, having the tables turned on them
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:24 PM
Jul 2015

being in a place where it's directed at them. Not sure where that would be, though.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
20. Sadly ...
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:31 PM
Jul 2015

I don't think so.

Remember how the conservative social safety net hater, changes his/her tune when faced with having to access those services ... don't they tend to limit their new found empathy to just those services they require?

Why would this be any different?

marym625

(17,997 posts)
21. Not really sure
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:33 PM
Jul 2015

I think I was extremely lucky having the parents I did. And that my mom taught in an all black high school in Chicago and that she is the person she is.

I don't know what it will take to wake up the country as a whole. Maybe it's just impossible. But I very much think this article speaks to the issues very well.

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