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struggle4progress

(118,295 posts)
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:36 AM Jul 2015

Road rage incident over Confederate flag results in fight on I-4

By Monivette Cordeiro
Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 5:51 pm

Welcome to another episode of WTF Florida, where we ask the important questions, like WTF, Florida?

In today's episode, we have two men who feel so passionately about a piece of fabric they were willing to follow another man onto the freeway for it, beat him and threaten to kill him, according to the Orlando Police Department.

Phillip Arroyo told OPD officials that he was driving in downtown Orlando Monday when he came to a red light next to a white pickup with a HUGE Confederate flag attached to the back ...


http://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2015/07/08/road-rage-incident-over-confederate-flag-results-in-fight-on-i-4

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Road rage incident over Confederate flag results in fight on I-4 (Original Post) struggle4progress Jul 2015 OP
I know someone who has the potential to do the same, and yes it's crazy AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #1
Ignorfuckinganuses! lonestarnot Jul 2015 #2
that's why i was against the pic of the guy taking a flag off a truck the other day HFRN Jul 2015 #3
He was charged with burglary of a conveyance with battery. What does that mean? B Calm Jul 2015 #4
It means this: jberryhill Jul 2015 #12
clear as mud. GeorgeGist Jul 2015 #21
Read the highlighted words here jberryhill Jul 2015 #38
Wow, Florida. You can get a life sentence for breaking into a car. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #45
thanks, this clarifies the "burglary" part. you don't have to actually steal anything. unblock Jul 2015 #23
That's a common misunderstanding of "burglary" jberryhill Jul 2015 #37
your last sentence doesn't fit this story. unblock Jul 2015 #41
Well I can't help it if the facts refuse to cooperate with me! jberryhill Jul 2015 #50
battery = hitting; burglary of a conveyance = stealing a car unblock Jul 2015 #15
I understand the battery charge, like you the burglary part B Calm Jul 2015 #17
Not quite. Burglary in this case is entering the car with the intent of committing another crime.nt jeff47 Jul 2015 #24
Seems to me they could also charge Kaley with reckless driving too. B Calm Jul 2015 #30
No, it's not stealing a car jberryhill Jul 2015 #39
see above; no, the flag was not stolen. it was one of the flag-owners who got charged with burglary unblock Jul 2015 #42
Well, get a hold of them and tell them to do it my way jberryhill Jul 2015 #54
"burglary" = breaking into personal property to steal Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #28
but what was he trying to steal? B Calm Jul 2015 #43
...or any other crime jberryhill Jul 2015 #51
Saw a fucking moron yesterday evening. Fuddnik Jul 2015 #5
Your "first urge" was to kill or gravely injure him? Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #14
Sigh. cwydro Jul 2015 #22
Hyperbole kills! Blue_Adept Jul 2015 #31
That's a gross exaggeration! FSogol Jul 2015 #49
Know the feeling - but, Control man, Control packman Jul 2015 #25
I COMPLETELY understand your urge, any decent person would. But like myself randys1 Jul 2015 #52
You need to B Calm. . Anyways, that's what I always tell myself when B Calm Jul 2015 #55
I wonder how many people will get killed over this @#$#% flag this summer? Frustratedlady Jul 2015 #6
It's as though they are armed and trying to start a race war. B Calm Jul 2015 #7
A war they expect to win. Expectation of a race war is the unspoken reason the NRA is so successful. leveymg Jul 2015 #33
They'll be surprised at how many liberals have guns too! B Calm Jul 2015 #44
bingo Duppers Jul 2015 #46
You sure got that right. nt raccoon Jul 2015 #47
Yep, NRA and the gun mfgs that support them stand to make a "killing" if there is a war randys1 Jul 2015 #53
The solution would be to not actively climb into their personal space to force a confrontation. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #9
yes HFRN Jul 2015 #11
That's my fear! hamsterjill Jul 2015 #18
Only if someone chooses to be baited into a confrontation and that someone would be the aggressor. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #26
Your words are absolutely true. hamsterjill Jul 2015 #34
Let's try not to pretend every problem is limited to merely one solution... regardless of our biases LanternWaste Jul 2015 #16
Maybe not every problem but Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #27
According to the news story gratuitous Jul 2015 #32
I-4 is a very busy multi-lane highway. blue neen Jul 2015 #8
What really tests your reactions ... there's an abundance of tourists. lpbk2713 Jul 2015 #19
I'll make a safe bet that the vast majority of Confederate flag wavers malaise Jul 2015 #10
of course not rdking647 Jul 2015 #20
Unless it's Harry Turtledove's alternative US history: Confederates armed w/AK-47s and B-17s leveymg Jul 2015 #36
That's his made up story malaise Jul 2015 #40
I bet most of them have never read a book Skittles Jul 2015 #56
My favorite aunt was an absolutely irreverent lady malaise Jul 2015 #57
Ok I'm torn. I'm an humanbeing. I would never do this.. nc4bo Jul 2015 #13
I think most yahoos flying that flag are into INTIMIDATION, and of course ignorant racism. Hoyt Jul 2015 #29
They're looking for trouble! B Calm Jul 2015 #58
Stupid on all sides. cwydro Jul 2015 #35
My Grand pappy once told me americanrabbit Jul 2015 #48
sigh, would have to happen in Orlando steve2470 Jul 2015 #59
 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
3. that's why i was against the pic of the guy taking a flag off a truck the other day
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:43 AM
Jul 2015

because however well intentioned, it's putting traffic safety second, starting with his own

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
12. It means this:
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:00 AM
Jul 2015

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0810/Sections/0810.02.html

810.02?Burglary.—
(1)(a)?For offenses committed on or before July 1, 2001, “burglary” means entering or remaining in a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter or remain.
(b)?For offenses committed after July 1, 2001, “burglary” means:
1.?Entering a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter; or
2.?Notwithstanding a licensed or invited entry, remaining in a dwelling, structure, or conveyance:
a.?Surreptitiously, with the intent to commit an offense therein;
b.?After permission to remain therein has been withdrawn, with the intent to commit an offense therein; or
c.?To commit or attempt to commit a forcible felony, as defined in s. 776.08.
(2)?Burglary is a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life imprisonment or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if, in the course of committing the offense, the offender:
(a)?Makes an assault or battery upon any person; or
(b)?Is or becomes armed within the dwelling, structure, or conveyance, with explosives or a dangerous weapon; or
(c)?Enters an occupied or unoccupied dwelling or structure, and:
1.?Uses a motor vehicle as an instrumentality, other than merely as a getaway vehicle, to assist in committing the offense, and thereby damages the dwelling or structure; or
2.?Causes damage to the dwelling or structure, or to property within the dwelling or structure in excess of $1,000.
(3)?Burglary is a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if, in the course of committing the offense, the offender does not make an assault or battery and is not and does not become armed with a dangerous weapon or explosive, and the offender enters or remains in a:
(a)?Dwelling, and there is another person in the dwelling at the time the offender enters or remains;
(b)?Dwelling, and there is not another person in the dwelling at the time the offender enters or remains;
(c)?Structure, and there is another person in the structure at the time the offender enters or remains;
(d)?Conveyance, and there is another person in the conveyance at the time the offender enters or remains;
(e)?Authorized emergency vehicle, as defined in s. 316.003; or
(f)?Structure or conveyance when the offense intended to be committed therein is theft of a controlled substance as defined in s. 893.02. Notwithstanding any other law, separate judgments and sentences for burglary with the intent to commit theft of a controlled substance under this paragraph and for any applicable possession of controlled substance offense under s. 893.13 or trafficking in controlled substance offense under s. 893.135 may be imposed when all such offenses involve the same amount or amounts of a controlled substance.

However, if the burglary is committed within a county that is subject to a state of emergency declared by the Governor under chapter 252 after the declaration of emergency is made and the perpetration of the burglary is facilitated by conditions arising from the emergency, the burglary is a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this subsection, the term “conditions arising from the emergency” means civil unrest, power outages, curfews, voluntary or mandatory evacuations, or a reduction in the presence of or response time for first responders or homeland security personnel. A person arrested for committing a burglary within a county that is subject to such a state of emergency may not be released until the person appears before a committing magistrate at a first appearance hearing. For purposes of sentencing under chapter 921, a felony offense that is reclassified under this subsection is ranked one level above the ranking under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023 of the offense committed.
(4)?Burglary is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if, in the course of committing the offense, the offender does not make an assault or battery and is not and does not become armed with a dangerous weapon or explosive, and the offender enters or remains in a:
(a)?Structure, and there is not another person in the structure at the time the offender enters or remains; or
(b)?Conveyance, and there is not another person in the conveyance at the time the offender enters or remains.

However, if the burglary is committed within a county that is subject to a state of emergency declared by the Governor under chapter 252 after the declaration of emergency is made and the perpetration of the burglary is facilitated by conditions arising from the emergency, the burglary is a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this subsection, the term “conditions arising from the emergency” means civil unrest, power outages, curfews, voluntary or mandatory evacuations, or a reduction in the presence of or response time for first responders or homeland security personnel. A person arrested for committing a burglary within a county that is subject to such a state of emergency may not be released until the person appears before a committing magistrate at a first appearance hearing. For purposes of sentencing under chapter 921, a felony offense that is reclassified under this subsection is ranked one level above the ranking under s. 921.0022 or s. 921.0023 of the offense committed.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
38. Read the highlighted words here
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:03 PM
Jul 2015

Statutes are written to cover a lot of circumstances. Looking at the story here, just read the highlighted words below:

810.02?Burglary.—
(1)(a)?For offenses committed on or before July 1, 2001, “burglary” means entering or remaining in a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter or remain.
(b)?For offenses committed after July 1, 2001, “burglary” means:
1.?Entering a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter; or
2.?Notwithstanding a licensed or invited entry, remaining in a dwelling, structure, or conveyance:
a.?Surreptitiously, with the intent to commit an offense therein;
b.?After permission to remain therein has been withdrawn, with the intent to commit an offense therein; or
c.?To commit or attempt to commit a forcible felony, as defined in s. 776.08.
(2)?Burglary is a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life imprisonment or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084, if, in the course of committing the offense, the offender:
(a)?Makes an assault or battery upon any person;
or

Okay?

He got onto a truck in order to steal a flag (Entering a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense), and he hit someone (battery).

That is what those things add up to under the relevant Florida law.

unblock

(52,253 posts)
23. thanks, this clarifies the "burglary" part. you don't have to actually steal anything.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:24 AM
Jul 2015

apparently per this statute, entering a vehicle "with the intent to commit an offense therein" is enough to qualify as "burglary".

this is much more broad than the stealing implication that most people think of when they hear the word "burglary". *any offense* you intend to commit after entering a vehicle (or dwelling, etc.) is enough to make it burglary.

so i guess it's enough that the fist entered the vehicle, intending to commit battery.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
37. That's a common misunderstanding of "burglary"
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:57 AM
Jul 2015

In general, burglary has always been an unauthorized entry with the intent to commit a crime.

Because we are usually talking about houses, and the crime is usually theft, most people don't understand the distinction.

But, no, getting onto the truck to steal the flag was apparently the entry to a conveyance to commit an offense.

unblock

(52,253 posts)
41. your last sentence doesn't fit this story.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jul 2015

it was one of the owners of the flag who got charged with burglary & battery. the guy who objected to the flag apparently never got out of his car. words were exchanged and eventually the flag-owners got out and attacked the guy who objected to the flag.

unblock

(52,253 posts)
15. battery = hitting; burglary of a conveyance = stealing a car
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:01 AM
Jul 2015

or perhaps stealing something from inside a car.

the article makes the battery part clear but not the burglary part. maybe they took something from the victim.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
24. Not quite. Burglary in this case is entering the car with the intent of committing another crime.nt
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:31 AM
Jul 2015

unblock

(52,253 posts)
42. see above; no, the flag was not stolen. it was one of the flag-owners who got charged with burglary
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 12:42 PM
Jul 2015

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
28. "burglary" = breaking into personal property to steal
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:40 AM
Jul 2015

"of a conveyance" = a vehicle, motorized or otherwise

"with battery" = he unlawfully put his hands on another person

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
51. ...or any other crime
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:51 PM
Jul 2015

If he wanted to jump into the backseat in order to sign a fraudulent tax return, that would be sufficient.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
5. Saw a fucking moron yesterday evening.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:47 AM
Jul 2015

A guy in his '20's riding his bicycle, with a confederate flag flying behind him.

I fought off my first urge to swerve.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
52. I COMPLETELY understand your urge, any decent person would. But like myself
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:55 PM
Jul 2015

you chose to take the high road and not do anything about the vile, vicious racist piece of shit

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
55. You need to B Calm. . Anyways, that's what I always tell myself when
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 05:36 PM
Jul 2015

road rage starts creeping into me.

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
6. I wonder how many people will get killed over this @#$#% flag this summer?
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:48 AM
Jul 2015

Those displaying it are gigging for trouble...they are itching for a fight and will take the smallest incident to get one started.

I'm afraid to even look at anyone in a vehicle anymore.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
33. A war they expect to win. Expectation of a race war is the unspoken reason the NRA is so successful.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:45 AM
Jul 2015

Three hundred million guns in America. Enough so that every last American can shoot each other.

hamsterjill

(15,222 posts)
18. That's my fear!
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:08 AM
Jul 2015

I drive Loop 1604 in San Antonio, Texas every day and there is one guy who I've seen twice this month already who has a gigantic confederate flag flying in the back of his truck. I posted about this earlier on DU.

While it is his right to do it (unfortunately), the question really is: Is it advisable that he do it? The answer, of course, is no. My concern is that he's hoping to bait someone into a confrontation. Looking for a fight, etc. Why else would someone do that at this point in our country's history???!!!

Anyone in close proximity to that idiot will be put into jeopardy.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
26. Only if someone chooses to be baited into a confrontation and that someone would be the aggressor.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:35 AM
Jul 2015

Violent hecklers do not get to decide what the rest of us are or are not allowed to say.

The Confederate rebellion was absolutely illegitimate. It was treason of the highest order but that doesn't give someone else the right to trespass into personal space to steal/destroy private property. That the rebellion is unsympathetic has no bearing on that fact.

To claim flying the rebel flag was "provocative" has no bearing on this fact, as well. Those feeling "provoked" (really just a cheap excuse for violence and vandalism) have a duty to govern themselves.

Why?

Because to make any other argument is to tell those who would claim to feel "provoked" by -- say -- the rainbow equality flag that they too have license to act on their urges towards violence and vandalism.

hamsterjill

(15,222 posts)
34. Your words are absolutely true.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:53 AM
Jul 2015

But you know there's going to be one idiot somewhere, sometime who will be aggressive. And it only takes one.

We live in an unstable and violent world. There's no need for anyone to go above and beyond to try to provoke a reaction, and I sincerely feel that the person in the truck flying the flag, although he is committing no crime, is asking for trouble.

The question becomes (as stated in my earlier post) whether or not it is a wise thing that he fly the flag. No one should have a license to act on their urges regarding hatred of seeing the confederate flag or any flag for that matter, but my bet is that it's going to happen sooner or later.

I don't want to be caught in the crossfire when it does occur. I don't want any other innocent bystander to be caught in that crossfire either.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
16. Let's try not to pretend every problem is limited to merely one solution... regardless of our biases
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:02 AM
Jul 2015

"A" solution rather than "the" solution. As would not not baiting anyone anyone by displaying be "a" solution also. Let's try not to pretend every problem is limited to merely one solution... regardless of our biases.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
27. Maybe not every problem but
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:37 AM
Jul 2015

if the problem is someone invading personal space to conduct aggressive acts of theft and vandalism the solution would be: don't invade personal space to conduct aggressive acts of theft and vandalism.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
32. According to the news story
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:45 AM
Jul 2015

Mr. Arroyo simply looked at the flag being flown from the truck, which prompted a very confrontational first contact from the driver and his passenger. It doesn't sound like looking at something that's being put on as a deliberately provocative display to be looked at is to "actively climb into their personal space," but what do I know? Arroyo could have put some liberal cootie eye prints on these fellows' precious flag, necessitating the violent response.

blue neen

(12,322 posts)
8. I-4 is a very busy multi-lane highway.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:53 AM
Jul 2015

This must have been quite a scene. It's hard to process the hatred of these confederate flag bearers.

lpbk2713

(42,759 posts)
19. What really tests your reactions ... there's an abundance of tourists.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:09 AM
Jul 2015



Drivers are unfamiliar with the roadway. They aren't always sure of where they are or where they are going. If you are behind one you can expect them to hit the brakes or change lanes quickly at any moment. It makes it a lot more interesting when it's raining, as is often the case this time of year. The roads are slippery and drivers can't see the exit sign until they are right up on them.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
36. Unless it's Harry Turtledove's alternative US history: Confederates armed w/AK-47s and B-17s
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:56 AM
Jul 2015


Carry me back to Dixie with weapons of mass destruction.

malaise

(269,054 posts)
57. My favorite aunt was an absolutely irreverent lady
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 10:49 PM
Jul 2015

who used to say that a large number of people can quote sections of the bible because it was the only book in their homes.

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
13. Ok I'm torn. I'm an humanbeing. I would never do this..
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:01 AM
Jul 2015

K, now I got that out in the open, shit happens when you instigate/flaunt some mess.

Be prepared when deliberate tone deafness to the world around you is your thing.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
35. Stupid on all sides.
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:56 AM
Jul 2015

It's none of my business what anyone has on their car, no more than it is their business for what I might have on mine.

Calling people out while on the road is just unsafe. Period.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
59. sigh, would have to happen in Orlando
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 02:36 AM
Jul 2015

This story is exactly why I don't even look at some people in other vehicles. Too many people with, um, issues out there. Racist and otherwise.

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