General Discussion

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts) Fri Jul 10, 2015, 07:34 AM Jul 2015

Looks like Greece's 'tricks' have really burned some bridges with her European partners...

Last edited Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Leading German conservatives cast doubt on Greek reform proposals

Senior German conservatives on Friday called into question the credibility of reform proposals put forward by the Athens government under Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras in a last-ditch bid to avoid a possible exit from the euro zone ("Grexit&quot

.

Speaking to ZDF public service television, the deputy parliamentary floor leader for Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats (CDU), Ralph Brinkhaus, said that the new plans seemed to contain many measures that Greeks rejected at a referendum last Sunday, casting doubt on how seriously they were meant.

Ralpph Brinkhaus

"How believable is it that this reform list will be implemented?" he asked, saying that the Athens government had also previously condemned many of the things it was now proposing.

Another leading conservative, Hans-Peter Friedrich, from the Christian Social Union (CSU) sister party in Bavaria, also said it was strange that proposals were being made that had been rejected in the referendum.

"Either the Greek government is tricking its own people or [it is tricking] us again," he told Deutschlandfunk radio in an interview.

http://www.dw.com/en/leading-german-conservatives-cast-doubt-on-greek-reform-proposals/a-18574815

______________________________

France appears to be one of the few friends that Greece has left, and that Tsipras hasn't managed to alienate.

Hope Hollande and Cie will be able to bring enough pressure to bear to force the Germans to get behind this last ditch offer.

Tsipras' much-vaunted referendum has perhaps done irreparable damage to Greece's already dicey credibility with its partners.

O, Pyrrhic Victory, thy name is Syriza.

17 replies

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Highlight:

Looks like Greece's 'tricks' have really burned some bridges with her European partners... (Original Post) Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 OP

Even more worrying: DetlefK Jul 2015 #1

'They could have passed them as goodwill-measures to show Europe that they are getting shit done.' Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #5

Good. nt GliderGuider Jul 2015 #2

Well, glad that's clear, then... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #3

"Partners" implies some degree of mutuality... GliderGuider Jul 2015 #4

Hello? You might want to check with the Greeks about that anti-euro sentiment... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #6

Just my humble opinion, I don't get to decide Greece's future. GliderGuider Jul 2015 #7

Entrenched ideological stands rarely work in the world of real-politic... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #8

Every once in a while they do. GliderGuider Jul 2015 #9

Hope you'll be 'solidaire' with them as they enter the next few years... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #10

The guy in your picture is the director of a bus operating company reorg Jul 2015 #11

Thanks for clearing up the confusion. The pic was Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #12

no problem reorg Jul 2015 #16

Wish I could speak better German than I do. French, OK. Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #17

And, and perhaps you'd like to contact Deutsche Welle Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #13

You lost me at "Senior German conservatives." You DO know the Greeks remember WWII? WinkyDink Jul 2015 #14

Sadly, Greece's shenanigans have cost more than just the German Conservatives' trust... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #15

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)

1. Even more worrying:

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Original post)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 07:58 AM

Jul 2015

"Friedrich added that not a single reform from a list presented by Greece in January had been implemented, something that did nothing "to raise confidence in this Greek government.""

Syriza could have passed all kinds of tax- and reform-measures on their own initiative (How about 1%ers being forced to pay taxes??? Hello!!!!!!!!!), but they didn't.

They could have passed them as goodwill-measures to show Europe that they are getting shit done.
"We are getting there, but we won't be able to make it on our own. We will need a helping hand for the rest of the distance..."

Instead, Tsipras held the reforms back to use their future implementation as a bargaining chip in the negotiations.

Tsipras and Syriza are all talk, blustering and populism, hoping to bring back the feel-good Greece of the past instead of trying to make a better Greece for the future.

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

5. 'They could have passed them as goodwill-measures to show Europe that they are getting shit done.'

Reply to DetlefK (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:18 AM

Jul 2015

Exactly, that's what's known as 'confidence-building'.

A-friggin-men to this:

'Tsipras and Syriza are all talk, blustering and populism, hoping to bring back the feel-good Greece of the past instead of trying to make a better Greece for the future.'

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

2. Good. nt

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Original post)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:06 AM

Jul 2015

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

3. Well, glad that's clear, then...

Reply to GliderGuider (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:14 AM

Jul 2015

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

4. "Partners" implies some degree of mutuality...

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:18 AM

Jul 2015

Time for a divorce, I think. 61% agree.

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

6. Hello? You might want to check with the Greeks about that anti-euro sentiment...

Reply to GliderGuider (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:31 AM

Jul 2015

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141137547#post34

'Poll: 66.5% of Greeks Prefer the Euro Over Drachma'

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/05/05/poll-66-5-of-greeks-prefer-the-euro-over-drachma/

Not to mention that Greece would fall completely over the cliff, being totally unprepared for a reversion to the drachma which experts estimate would take at least 6 months.

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

7. Just my humble opinion, I don't get to decide Greece's future.

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:37 AM

Jul 2015

I'm wayyyy over to the left end of the anarchist/authoritarian spectrum.

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

8. Entrenched ideological stands rarely work in the world of real-politic...

Reply to GliderGuider (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:42 AM

Jul 2015

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)

9. Every once in a while they do.

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:52 AM

Jul 2015

Like in 1776, for example. But whether or not a point of view has a chance at utilitarian success is not the issue for me. Their willingness to stand up and say, "Fuck EU!" to their oppressors has gained the Greek people a warm place in my heart and my esteem.

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

10. Hope you'll be 'solidaire' with them as they enter the next few years...

Reply to GliderGuider (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 08:59 AM

Jul 2015

of worsened austerity, a 'hurt locker' of pain-- thanks to their elected leaders insistence on saying "Fuck EU!" instead of negotiating in good faith.

reorg

(3,317 posts)

11. The guy in your picture is the director of a bus operating company

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Original post)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:22 AM

Jul 2015

in Chur, Switzerland.

http://www.suedostschweiz.ch/wirtschaft/neuer-direktor-bei-der-stadtbus-chur-ag
http://www.buschur.ch/index.php

The guy who actually made the statements referred to goes by the name of Ralph Brinkhaus. I had never heard of him until he appeared in a talk show last week spouting the usual right-wing talking points about Greece.

He is one of the ten deputy parliamentary floor leaders of the CDU/CSU (conservatives). Obviously, you care a lot about what he thinks.

http://www.bundestag.de/bundestag/fraktionen/cducsu/cducsu/245192
http://www.bundestag.de/bundestag/abgeordnete18/biografien/B/brinkhaus_ralph/258184

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

12. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. The pic was

Reply to reorg (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:30 AM

Jul 2015

listed on google images as Ralph Brinkmann.

'Obviously, you care a lot about what he thinks.'

No, no more than any of the other players mentioned in the Deutsche Welle article.

I just find that when I'm reading someone's words, I rather like to put a mental image with the disembodied quotes.

reorg

(3,317 posts)

16. no problem

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:31 AM

Jul 2015

I suggest you remove the false picture.

Here is Mr Brinkhaus debating the founder of ultra-right AfD, Lucke, over how to deal with the Greek crisis:

The AfD wants Greece to leave the Euro, Brinkhaus argues against it.

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

17. Wish I could speak better German than I do. French, OK.

Reply to reorg (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:37 AM

Jul 2015

German? Barely get along.

I'll get on the pic.

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

13. And, and perhaps you'd like to contact Deutsche Welle

Reply to reorg (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:36 AM

Jul 2015

to let them know about the 'erratum' in their article.

Here's the url for their contact page:

http://www.dw.com/en/dw-akademie/contact/s-12141

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)

14. You lost me at "Senior German conservatives." You DO know the Greeks remember WWII?

Reply to Surya Gayatri (Original post)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:36 AM

Jul 2015

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)

15. Sadly, Greece's shenanigans have cost more than just the German Conservatives' trust...

Reply to WinkyDink (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 10:44 AM

Jul 2015

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141142124#post1

It's not just

the Germans expressing reservations.

Straujuma said that discussions with her counterparts in the other Baltic states of Estonia and Lithuania - all of whom have gone through extensive periods of austerity and reform implementation - had shown they were of the same opinion.

“At the moment I see no reason for Latvia to give money to Greece,” Straujuma said, adding:

“Humanitarian aid is another matter. If money is needed for Greek hospitals or for medicines, the Latvians will help. Greece is an EU member, but it’s the Greek government that is responsible for what happens”.

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France really seems to be the only 'partner' still willing to have anything to do with them.

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