Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Worth of $100 in every state (Original Post) packman Jul 2015 OP
Because they're subsidizing the red states. Brickbat Jul 2015 #1
Because although liberals states are the best places to live, yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #2
How? nt B2G Jul 2015 #3
federal money tends to flow from liberal states to conservative ones fishwax Jul 2015 #6
Would love to see some stats on that. B2G Jul 2015 #7
The stats are there. Igel Jul 2015 #9
Because federal payout to states do no equal that state's total pay in... Glassunion Jul 2015 #11
But aren't individuals paying in the same amount in each state B2G Jul 2015 #14
My chart has nothing to do with state taxes, just federal taxes. Glassunion Jul 2015 #16
I understand that B2G Jul 2015 #17
See #6... Thor_MN Jul 2015 #20
sure, but the large populations also make for a larger contribution to federal taxes fishwax Jul 2015 #13
Higher taxes result in higher priced goods. Travis_0004 Jul 2015 #4
Hawaii and Alaska might be due to other reasons alarimer Jul 2015 #5
So what's New Jersey's excuse? KamaAina Jul 2015 #10
Don't get me started on Alaska's shipping costs. Blue_In_AK Jul 2015 #22
without doing a deep dive into melm00se Jul 2015 #8
I wonder what that would look like if you broke it out by county. KamaAina Jul 2015 #12
In '98 I had a friend graduating college. Igel Jul 2015 #15
Housing costs in Austin make that $100 way less. hobbit709 Jul 2015 #18
where I live a 99 dollar store would clean up olddots Jul 2015 #19
Coastal states are traditionally more liberal, and those places with more people are more uppityperson Jul 2015 #21
$100 sure doesn't feel like $108.81 here in Georgia I_Like_Hammers Jul 2015 #23
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
2. Because although liberals states are the best places to live,
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:52 AM
Jul 2015

They are most expensive because they care about the poor, environment and justice which are not cheap programs to have.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
6. federal money tends to flow from liberal states to conservative ones
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:49 PM
Jul 2015

typically blue states like New Jersey, New York, California, Illinois, and Minnesota tend to contribute more money to federal coffers via taxes than they get back in the form of federal spending. Many typically red states (and especially in the poor and rural south), on the other hand, take in much more via federal spending than they contribute with tax dollars. There are exceptions, of course--Wyoming, for instance. But, overall, the trend holds.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
7. Would love to see some stats on that.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:52 PM
Jul 2015

It may be true due to the sheer numbers based on population.

But how does that account for anything given federal the tax rates are the same across all states?

Igel

(35,317 posts)
9. The stats are there.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:07 PM
Jul 2015

Might be tricky to get the right search terms and plow through the drivel that surrounds this.

The key to making sense out of this (before being outraged) is to break the flow both way into components.

There are household income taxes.
There are things like FICA, dedicated-use income taxes.
There are corporate income taxes.
There are fees.

For out-flow, there are
General use services and contractors (roads, government offices, file-folder vendors, for examples)
Military and military contractors
Social Security and Medicare recipients
Need-based entitlements
Farm and related subsidies

Blue states may have large needy populations, but compared to the large corporations and wealthy they pay in more. Many are coastal, with large ports of entry and rake in fees there.

Military bases are often in red states--in land, in states with a lot of land. A lot of military contractors have relocated to red states. Retirees tend to go to red states because they're cheaper and often warmer. Many red states have larger rural populations that receive need-based entitlements, but they also have farm subsidies.

By and large, it's a case of resenting that those don't like the idea "from each as he is able" benefit from it, but that's an odd understanding. They focus on income tax and payments to individuals and assume that's the entirety of the accounting. (Even then it's a large portion of it, but that's how people move and the Congress decided.)

The government puts the farm subsidies where the farms are, not because they're in red states but because it was considered good policy at one time. Much of the redistribution is for federally mandated programs, often driven by blue-state voters and often resisted by red-state politicians. And some of it is military bases, which provide a lot of low-paying service jobs and restrict land development for private use but which gobble up federal money. Even when 10k troops from a base are deployed overseas, the money for their pay is still accounted to the state the base is in.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
11. Because federal payout to states do no equal that state's total pay in...
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:10 PM
Jul 2015


South Carolina receives $7.87 back from the federal government for every $1 its citizens pay in federal tax.
 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
14. But aren't individuals paying in the same amount in each state
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:12 PM
Jul 2015

based on the Fed tax rates?

I'm more inclined to think these differences are due to state taxes, cost of goods & services and real estate costs.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
16. My chart has nothing to do with state taxes, just federal taxes.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:16 PM
Jul 2015

It is quite basic. NY state receives fewer funds back from the federal government than its people pay in, where as South Carolina receives more funds back than its people pay in.

fishwax

(29,149 posts)
13. sure, but the large populations also make for a larger contribution to federal taxes
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:11 PM
Jul 2015

especially when you factor in that the states with the highest rates of poverty are typically southern and/or rural states. Also, cities have their own and/or state taxes to draw on, as well as funds from local/regional planning authorities, and large-scale expenditures will be cheaper per capita in the urban areas than elsewhere. The result is that a major highway project in the NYC metro area may cost a lot more than a major highway project in, say, Mississippi, but a lower percentage of the project is likely to be paid by federal funds and the cost-per-user will be much lower.

Anyway, here's one such study by wallethub. (This one is fairly recent, but there have been similar stories/trends for a while now.) It includes other data other than just the ratio of federal taxes to federal spending, but you can find that figure in the first column: http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
5. Hawaii and Alaska might be due to other reasons
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jul 2015

Like just getting goods shipped to HI is incredibly expensive.

But higher taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society. I would much rather be in high-tax Maryland than low-tax Mississippi, for instance.

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
22. Don't get me started on Alaska's shipping costs.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 03:07 PM
Jul 2015

We've seen instances of sellers claiming to ship "worldwide," who won't ship to Alaska. eBay sellers will charge us $10 or $15 to ship, even if the item will fit in an envelope and be sent by U.S. mail. Consequently, everything is more expensive here.

melm00se

(4,993 posts)
8. without doing a deep dive into
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:02 PM
Jul 2015

demographics, urban planning, population distributions and the like, I can only speculate but looking at NY, NJ and CA, you have tightly controlled urban centers that house the bulk of the population with finite building space.

Property costs (for both rental and purchase) and its proportion to other costs (it is generally the single largest expense) have a ripple effect across all facets of society and directly influences other costs (like food, one of the other large expenses).

Couple that with population density (take NYC for example: it comprises almost half the population of NYS) and the results skew rather dramatically.

You can probably lather, rinse and repeat for CA.

AK and HI have logistical challenges: almost everything has to be imported and from a significant distance and that would directly impact overall costs.

On the flip side (states with the most bang for the buck), I would look to correlate the above #s with the agricultural production. I would discount CA as an anomaly because it has the aforementioned housing issues and specific population density issues.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
12. I wonder what that would look like if you broke it out by county.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:10 PM
Jul 2015

Fresno is hella cheaper than SF. Same thing with, say, Utica vs. NYC.

Igel

(35,317 posts)
15. In '98 I had a friend graduating college.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 01:13 PM
Jul 2015

He had a series of job offers.

The first thing he did was figure out what the pay for each job meant by comparing cost of living to the income offered.

He found that the employers knew this "trick", hardly new in '98, and since they wanted him for essentially the same job and the job marketplace was the US as whole because it was a small but mobile candidate pool, their offers were just about the same.

Speculation?

Taxes, prevailing wages, food prices, how you factor in housing (which often means zoning restrictions and school taxes), cooling/heating day equivalents, energy prices and types, transportation (and the assumptions--do you count bus or car in NYC, Los Angeles, and Houston?). When everybody makes $15/hr you'll see cost of living increase. Money's a commodity, and if there's more commodity then it's worth less in real terms.

I remember seeing "cost of living" comparisons when I was in high school in the early '70s, with breakdowns by various categories.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
19. where I live a 99 dollar store would clean up
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jul 2015

I could sell the same junk as a 99 cents store and the people would be lined up for the valet parking .

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
21. Coastal states are traditionally more liberal, and those places with more people are more
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 03:01 PM
Jul 2015

expensive to live.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Worth of $100 in every st...