That stupid flagpole was slapped up there when those meanie feds told them that segregation wasn't cool and they shouldn't do it anymore.

What a heritage!!

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/us/south-carolina-confederate-battle-flag-journey/

about Southern heritage as something having nothing to do with slavery and I was just wondering what he meant by the term.

ah em gonna yewz this bullsheeyit 'herri-taj' word to try en conFUUUUZE yuh!"

Now he's a gonna have to cry into his mint julep, that he has to make himself, because mean old Mr. Lincoln took away his opportunity to own people who would make his drinks for him a century and a half ago...but of course, this ain't ABOUT slavery at-all!!

It's a lame game these losers are playing....they're going to have to get with the program--the days of carping about the glory days of treason against the USA are OVER.

That shit is FINALLY going out of fashion!

It's like heritage in any other place on the planet. The USA is a big country and certain parts of the country have certain characteristics that make them unique. It's not always about history or even about all the history of that area.

So when people say "Southern heritage," or "New England heritage," or "Southern California heritage," I know they're talking about what they consider to be the good things about living there that make it special.

Assigning negative motives to people who say &quot Regional) heritage" is just not where I exist. I prefer to think the best of people and that they have a certain pride in what makes where they live something special to them.

Think positive. Be nice.

If it the kind of hospitality I experienced when I visited my granddaughter who wasin college in Charleston, I could get that. The people were exceptionally hospitable. Charlestonians have every right to claim that, based on what I experienced.

But in New England people don't use the term heritage. My CT flag doesn't mean that to me. Now if we mean historical significance, then we could talk about all kinds of things but perhaps not pin it down using one term.

Think of it as "Northern privilege."

If you have a southern accent, you're judged stupid--perhaps cute, perhaps quaint, but stupid. Backwards. You marry your cousin, if not your sister. Northern heritage is Geo. Washington, the US flag, the Union troops winning the Civil War, etc., etc. There are regional things: So where I grew up "heritage" was Founders Day and the Battle of North Point, it was Fort McHenry and the Gorsuch/Todd Estate. In Rochester it was Kodak and, weirdly, jello. In Oregon, the proud history of logging that so many immigrants despised and wanted to avoid, as well as the U. of Oregon and, in Coburg, Swedish (or was in Norwegian) Days.

Because there was nothing outside of those areas they weren't just a big deal.

Now, take African-American "heritage." I've heard people in Houston talking about needing to defend neighborhoods to preserve their ethnic heritage. Preserving stories and traditions. There's even "Latino heritage," which is typically the heritage of former imperialists and those who lost the war in Texas, or relatively new arrivals. I've seen Latinos fly their countries' flags on national holidays and on the 4th of July, just as I've seen the Confederate flag up with "Old Glory" on the 4th.

There's no Northern Heritage, so there's not anything much recognizable as "White Heritage" in Texas, apart from pan-Texan things and the occasional blip of the Confederate flag. For much the same reason: Texas matters because there was a war for independence, such as it was; the flag matters because Texans are still considered stupid and backwards because of their accent or geography. Even "white cultures" submerged in Texas get scant mention: kolaches are common here, but they reflect a hefty Czech/Moravian element in parts of Texas. An area north of here has "German heritage days"--openly ridiculed by some people, who find the very idea offensive--because the area was settled by German immigrants, and most of the major roads are starkly German.

I had a cousin who lived in New Braunfels and was married to a man of German descent. My mother's side of the family emigrated to Texas from Griffin, GA because of the destruction of his farm when Sherman marched through. Feelings were hard. AFAIK, no one in my family ever claimed to have forbears who fought in the Civil War, tho. Texas was the focal point, not the South.

Hospitality, Southern foods, family, etc... It's a way of life that shared by those who live here.

Oddly enough (to some at least), the Confederate flag represented those beliefs, and slavery wasn't even a part of it. As I've mentioned before, I've seen the flag flown as a source of Southern regional pride by people of all races, moreso when I lived in NC than here in FL.

So while the flag thing may be a big deal at this site, and it will matter to a handful who live in the South, it's not something that's going to change anything. People here of all races generally get along. I've even read Mr. Scorpio talk about how the South is much more integrated and less racist than the North. But that's a different topic.

and I'm talking about the millions of black folks who still live in the south, so stop trying to minimize it.

I'm grateful to my time in the south because it did teach me how good food was supposed to taste. I also loved hiking around the area, especially up in the mountains. It remains my standard for beautiful country, those mountains.

I'd never live there again, though.

a different Southern state? While I think we Southerners all agree that cornbread should NOT be sweet, I remember having a spirited discussion with a TN native over cornbread. Hers was so damn good I gave up the fight...if only she'd make more so I could share it...but it wasn't over sweetness...we both agreed that "real" cornbread wasn't sweet...her secret ingredient was bacon fat...

While individual families and groups might celebrate their common heritage by lauding the deeds of a respected patriarch or famous ancestor, or event, the state has no such solidarity. We are a vast, multicultural state with Northern, Central and Southern California regions that each have distinctly different influences and histories. People are always moving and even the concept of 'community' isn't what it used to be, so there's no commonality or reason to develop a mutual heritage.

The one and only thing the South had in common by way of claiming a mutual heritage, was slavery.

It would have to cover the wide variety of experiences of all peoples, and it does not.

It does not cover the experiences of African Americans of Mexican Americans in the so-called South (let alone any group that has come to those states since 1865). It only covers Whites (perhaps not even all whites, as it tends to focus more on those of British and German descent).

Moreover, it does really encompass all aspects of the South--it does unify the South in any way. There are numerous traditions, even among Whites, that are unique to one state or one particular area that are not present in another. A friend of mine, Shelby Stephenson (current poet laureate of North Carolina) is fond of saying that there is no one "South."

If there is anything unifying about Southern heritage is that it was built around a system of exploitative labor practices that was defended against economic modernization.

There really is no cultural "south." There's a big diversity of cultures below the Mason-Dixon line, and to beleive that they form one body - much less one that can be represented by the fucking Klan flag - is pure ignorance.

Which is kind of the point. This argument, "the flag is about southern heritage" is bass-ackwards. The flag was not hoisted to symbolize southern heritage, "southern heritage" was coined to protect the racist-ass flag.

If you say however that Southern heritage is not distinct from slavery, you would also have to admit that Northern heritage is also not distinct from it as well.

And slavery in the north was not as extended timewise as it was in the South...

Even though southern hospitality is actually a very famous part of their actual 'heritage.'

That symbol of hatred and oppression, though--that thing was only dragged out of the cobwebs when Strom Thurmond started getting all Dixiecrat and segregationist-ish. It stayed pretty much folded away for almost a century, but when it was resurrected, it was resurrected as a symbol that said "We don't want to give any of those nonwhites equal rights."

That's the "heritage" of that scrap of cloth. And it's an ugly one, too!

lists all the Declaration of Secession Documents for the Confederates- Slavery is prominent in each one
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html

this "heritage" seems to solely be about the Confederacy and antebellum slavery.

I don't see them talking about Jazz or George Washington Carver much.

and there is this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2015/07/01/white-support-for-the-confederate-flag-really-is-about-racism-not-southern-heritage/

Of those whites who got all three answers correct (identified Sherman and correctly and named two Civil War battles), only 34 percent preferred the state flag with the Confederate battle emblem. Of those who got zero answers correct, 73 percent preferred the state flag with the Confederate battle emblem. Furthermore, this relationship is present even when we statistically control for markers of social class such as income and education. White supporters of the Confederate battle emblem are distinguished not by their knowledge of Southern history but rather their ignorance of it.

Nailed those hypocrites!!!!

I'd like to ask them if they knew exactly for which unit their grand-pappy's fought for?
Their commanding officer?
General?

How many would know?

it sucks at times to have to face facts you would rather not face.

when something clashes with that belief they tend to lash out if anyone points out facts they would prefer to ignore.

that a black man fought for the Confederacy, or that we don't want to?

I can understand why though because it complicates things for some people and they either cannot process the facts or they dont want to and in this case the fact is slavery was an abomination that wasnt about skin color it was about assholes thinking it was ok to own other people.

ONTH there were no white slaves.

And the modern display of the confederate battle flag is all about color and civil rights of black people.

though by the time of the civil war there was very few of them left.

I see you are saying race had nothing to do with it.
You're wrong and I have nothing left to say to you.

If they could kept getting cheap servants from ireland for example who were white then they would have done that instead but it was gradually becoming more difficult to obtain such people so they turned another source, africa.
Race itself was used later on as an excuse to maintain the system.

to your own screed. "Because it complicates things for some people and they either cannot process the facts or they don't want to...". It's obviously confused the hell out of you for you to conclude that american slavery was an "abomination that wasn't about skin color".

Classique!!

They used all of sorts of excuses and they used different names for it but in the end it had the same, to justify it just like every culture all over the globe has done back when the first human took another as a slave.

was so different from other types of slavery. Much more brutal. Your saying that American slavery, which is what was being discussed had nothing to do with race is ridiculous and absurd. You obviously are confused by the fact there were a few black landowners. That "fact" doesn't mean it had nothing to do with race. Doesn't matter who the owners were, the slaves were black. I wonder how the black landowners treated their white slaves? Oh, that's right. They didn't own any! Wonder why if it had "nothing to do with race". That was just a ridiculous thing for you to say so stop doubling down on it.

He was one of the old-fashioned miners, pick and shovel. The hole in the mountain was only big enough to crawl into, but not to stand up...The cool, damp wind was never-ending... Matchstick timbers held up the mountain above... Faith in God was the only thing that saved their lives.

And he did it all for the Man. And to feed his Wife and Children. As there was no sharing. There is always one Man that wants to take more than his share.

But, even as tough as it was, no men have suffered the inhumanity of man moreso than the African-American man, in my opinion.

The mythical southern brooder, wise like the village idiot and deathly serious. Standoffish, wolfish, angry, male, white. Bitter, bitter, bitter. Bitter that the South is not extraordinary and stands out, today, as a racist holdover to a more horrible day in the past.

That is the Rebel Flag and Southern Heritage is code for, "I can be as racist as I want to be and you cannot call me on it." Many try and fail to mix that into southern regional cultures, which the South has just like the North and East and West have.

IMO.

Maybe its not so much a matter of heritage, but self-esteem that is the issue. People that are poor don't have hope. If they are ignorant and poorly educated on top of their crushing poverty, they have no future. Poor, uneducated, unemployable people cling to symbols that prop up their self-worth. There's a sad pattern of guns and flags, slogans and chants, bibles and big trucks, grits and gravy that might point to the more immediate problem of hopeless poverty.

And goes hand in hand with lack of good public funding for schools and libraries.

Got it in one.

The South's entire existence, their society, culture, and economic system was based on the free labor provided by slaves. Nothing they ever achieved, no success, accomplishment or fortune would have been possible without slavery. That IS their heritage and there's no way around that fact.

Rep Clyburn of South Carolina states......"The Confederacy had three flags. This was never one of them, This is a flag, the Confederate battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia, Robert E. Lee's army."

"And when Robert E. Lee surrendered he asked all of his followers to furl this flag. Stow it away, he said. Put it in your attics," Clyburn continued. "He refused to be buried in his Confederate uniform. His family refused to allow anyone dressed in the confederate uniform to attend his funeral."

"Why? Because Robert E. Lee said he considered this emblem to be a symbol of treason.

Yankee Heritage is being able to fix anything with Bailing Wire. Be it a Fence Post, Sickle Bar or Carburetor problem it was the Yankee Duct Tape before anyone knew what Duct Tape was. Then you too can be like the farmers in both Maine and Montana where it can take a week to drive around the property line.

is interesting to me. People tend to use the word 'heritage' as if it is a synonym for 'history' but it is no such thing. Heritage means 'that which can be or is inherited'. That is the definition of the word. It means the stuff I have by birth right, and traditionally that means property and status. Phrases like 'our National heritage' speak of the things which we are born with, citizenship, the Constitution, our collective history and national infrastructure physical and political, among other things are ours for being born here, and in a poetic sense those are our heritage. In a poetic sense. In reality, one's heritage is what you inherit.
The choice to speak of 'heritage' instead of 'history' or 'traditions' or 'culture' is a distinct choice. It is also, in my view, a poetically loaded choice, because Southern white heritage at one time included slaves, who were seen as property and could be inherited. The state of slavery in the South, and not in all places with slavery, was a heritage state, that is if your parents were slaves you were born to slavery, you inherited it, it was your heritage to be another man's heritage.

The Old West has history. New England has traditions. California Culture. NY Style. Southern Heritage.....

along with Quebec the most coherent across multiple domains of culture.

If you really want an answer you need to look at things like The Nine Nations of North America is a book written in 1981 by Joel Garreau.

And pay particular attention to regional cultural identity. Culture refers to ways of being/living acquired across generations.

Or maybe they don't.

that causes people to react to a massacre by praying instead of lashing out

One facet of that heritage is the "mountain men" of upstate South Carolina, without whom we all might be pledging allegiance to the Queen.

http://www.revolutionarywararchives.org/kingsmtfall05.html

had nothing to do with slavery, "It was about secession".

was because of slavery you dumb ass. I don't think it even registered with the talk show host, from what I hear I think she watches a lot of Fox and buys that argument..

For slave-owning families, fond memories of a God-like existence with family and friends sitting around on the plantation sipping mint juleps and counting the money some lesser beings had made for them with their sweat and blood (at gunpoint). What's not to like? Basically, parasitism.

For Average Joe Redneck, a lot of it is probably family pride and defensiveness: a stubborn unwillingness to accept that their ancestors who fought and died in the service of the slave-owning families above were wrong-headed idiots and fools who lost.

It is about our own generosity. It is about us. How much generosity do we have for the vanquished?

That was our Great Civil War.

As Nietzsche said, "Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful."

We should seek to be more benevolent, perhaps?

( CTyankee has a big heart )

Plantations (made possible by slave labor), mint juleps, Gone With The Wind (which showed slaves loving their masters), slaves....

....who will read thistype of thread for the thousandth time are DU members, and a few discussionists. As a DU member who was born in the south, and wouldn't live anywhere else, I can only repeat for the thousandth time, WE GET IT! There are a lot of reasons to be proud of who we are, but flying the confederate flag isn't one of them. This is the type of thread whose only purpose is to bait someone here into saying anything that can be misconstrued, or twisted into a defense of said rag in order to set off a feeding frenzy. They are sharks circling in anticipation of easy prey.

motives. Sorry to repeat myself, but I am from the South and I left because it didn't suit me. It's fine that you are happy where you are. I am no shark circling anything or anyone. And as I believe I have said (again, sorry if I repeat myself) I grew up in Texas where the big deal was the Lone Star flag of TX not the Confederate flag even tho TX was a Southern state during the Civil War. And I don't think I would be on Discussionist even if someone paid me to. I looked in there and literally couldn't stand it.

So I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Let me know if you have further concerns...I wish you well.

But, a I said, this same question has been asked a thousand times, and i'm surprised that you missed them all. Don't be surprised if you don't find an answer that is suitable to you. The only answer I have is one that has been repeated here many times. Those that fly the flag because of their outright hatred of poc, those who are still bitter because of the misguided notion that the csa was unjustly invaded, those who think it's just a cool statement of rebellion against what they believe to be an an evil and intrusive government, or any combination thereof. The difference between what some people perceive as "southern heritage" is far removed from my feelings of southern pride. I am proud to be a southerner, but only because I was born, and love it here. I can only do, in my daily life, what I can to combat the ugliness that comes with the territory.
Sorry if my earlier post was harsh, but one gets weary of what I see as repetition.
By the way, i'm with you on texass. 31-7 Texas Bowl Champs-RAZORBACKS-WOO PIG!!

Mine was just one in the shuffle...as my aunt used to remind me (after I moved to the NE) "All your people are Southern people" and she said that very nicely and lovingly...not a mean bone in her body...

By the way, hope you enjoyed your trip to King Arthur's Court. (movie reference) and one of my favorites.

I loved Danny Kaye...

The golden age of Hollywood. Bing Crosby, Donald O'Connor,(Francis the talking mule), Abbott and Costello, and on and on. Being a kid back in the day was magical. The movies cost a quarter, a dime for a coke, fifteen cents for popcorn, and I was in heaven.

I have a movie buddy and we saw "The Woman in Gold" a couple of months ago. Nice to get out...

...with Helen Mirren is awesome. One of my favorite actresses. We don't get out to the movies much these days unless its with the grandkids to see one of their movies. I remember seeing the trailer for the woman in gold, and told myself that is a must see. My son and daughter-in-law have a 100 inch screen TV which is pretty close to going to the movies, plus you get to avoid the crowds, and the chewing gum on the bottom of the shoe. Being as old as I am, I also appreciate the pause button. You know, bathroom breaks. Haha

so I have my movie buddy. She is also my travel buddy. I'm hoping she will go with me to Taormina next year. I go to Europe every year and she is one of my travel buddies (she's a widow) and hubby is fine at home so all is well. Hey, my 13th trip to Europe, my 6th to Italy...I am fierce on my trips, up in the morning and out by 9 a.m. You shudda seen me in Florence with all the art...

I'm officially jealous. The only time I've been out of the country was a two year stay in Auschaufurg Germany when I was in the military. I'm glad you have those opportunities. Sounds fantastic. Me, I'll have to settle for A&E, and the movies , but I'm not complaining. Gotta go put on some chili dogs so I can work on my goal of getting so fat I can't see my shoes anymore.

my widow friend gets it...when she suddenly had her husband taken from her and their two girls, she learned something about how fragile your life situation is and can change in an instant...as she puts it "you can laugh or you can cry and I choose to laugh...and drink wine." I went with her a several of her widowed friends to Portugal and we called ourselves the "Six Broads Abroad." God, that was fun...

That's it. That's all.