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question everything

(47,493 posts)
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 04:18 PM Jul 2015

Interesting comment about Trump by Peggy Noonan

I suppose others have observed it but she really hit it right:

One part of the speech has been heavily quoted: “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. . . . But as to Mr. Trump’s words, throughout our history other nations never sent their “best” to America. My people and my friend’s, the Irish, were not Ireland’s elite when they came in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They had nothing back home; that’s why they left. The landed gentry, the high-born, the educated and established—they didn’t come here. They didn’t have to! The wretched refuse did. And the Irish transition to America was not so smooth. There was plenty of poverty, overcrowding, addiction, criminality. We should always remember—and Mr. Trump, as a native New Yorker, should remember—that our city’s arrest vehicles weren’t known as paddy wagons for nothing.

There may even have been some fairly fractious Trumps way back then . . .


http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-appealand-its-limits-1436479851

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Interesting comment about Trump by Peggy Noonan (Original Post) question everything Jul 2015 OP
I didn't know she had that in her Warpy Jul 2015 #1
maybe she has sobered up in her elder years... CTyankee Jul 2015 #7
Every once in a while she says something that makes me think we can make a democrat of her Jack Rabbit Jul 2015 #10
No. Yes. Note Ms. Noonan's assumption that the "best" were privileged classes, not those who came, Hortensis Jul 2015 #20
That's why she put the word in quotation marks. Demit Jul 2015 #35
Wooh... MrMickeysMom Jul 2015 #11
Perhaps, like most Republicans she is afraid that Trump will lose them the election question everything Jul 2015 #18
That makes Trump different from the other GOP candidates how? Jack Rabbit Jul 2015 #23
Bernard Bailyn, Voyagers to the West malthaussen Jul 2015 #2
Thanks for that SusanaMontana41 Jul 2015 #21
Trump can see the Mexican border from his New York City penthouse.. Playinghardball Jul 2015 #3
lol n/t restorefreedom Jul 2015 #25
So true. kentuck Jul 2015 #4
It is so weird to like TNNurse Jul 2015 #5
Cant believe she said that - good for her. jwirr Jul 2015 #6
Um..."Paddy wagons" were named for the IRISH COPS, NOT IRISH CRIMINALS. She simply uses the WinkyDink Jul 2015 #8
I'm thinking about that song "This old man, he played one, he played knick knack on CTyankee Jul 2015 #13
They all became Episcopalians. maindawg Jul 2015 #14
Potato famine Irish here. Conscription-dodging German on the other side. NBachers Jul 2015 #9
So much for the rich brag about family that came over on the Mayflower as if they're royalty. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #12
mm, did she mention things like the "no irish need apply" signs? niyad Jul 2015 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author Hortensis Jul 2015 #16
by the way, peggy dear, just because people are poor, does not mean they are not "the best" niyad Jul 2015 #17
She may have been thinking of the "wretched refuse" line... malthaussen Jul 2015 #24
excellent point restorefreedom Jul 2015 #26
Heh. Just look at Trump - LiberalElite Jul 2015 #34
Not surprising in the least. The repug sadoldgirl Jul 2015 #19
New Colossus ... the sonnet on the Statue of Liberty NotHardly Jul 2015 #22
She equates best with elite. WTF is that. Why do people do that? lonestarnot Jul 2015 #27
Because she's in "the elite" herself (presidential speechwriter, etc) JHB Jul 2015 #30
So can that be carried into the white middle class working stiffs? Identification? Is that why lonestarnot Jul 2015 #32
Even a stopped clock... JHB Jul 2015 #28
Yep shenmue Jul 2015 #31
Is she kookie roberts sister? lonestarnot Jul 2015 #29
And signs said, "No Irish Need Apply." MineralMan Jul 2015 #33
Anyone see the movie "Another Earth"? randome Jul 2015 #36

Warpy

(111,291 posts)
1. I didn't know she had that in her
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 04:44 PM
Jul 2015

I'm a little shocked that she did.

But we do need to know our history and our history says that only the landless came here, that the magistrates and many colonial governors were just passing through on their way to their inheritances back home. The gentry had too good a deal to risk everything in a new world. It was the underclass who took the risk.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
7. maybe she has sobered up in her elder years...
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 05:44 PM
Jul 2015

she appeared impaired so many times on TV that Morning Joe stopped having her on. She simply couldn't cope that early. It was actually sad...

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
10. Every once in a while she says something that makes me think we can make a democrat of her
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:00 PM
Jul 2015

But by next week she'll be taking like a corporate fascist Republican again.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. No. Yes. Note Ms. Noonan's assumption that the "best" were privileged classes, not those who came,
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:39 PM
Jul 2015

even as she recounts the challenges they faced. I'm afraid she'd never make a democrat. This limited insight evidently results from the situation of others hitting a lot closer to home than usual.

question everything

(47,493 posts)
18. Perhaps, like most Republicans she is afraid that Trump will lose them the election
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:23 PM
Jul 2015

I think that so far only Bush and Rubio took Trump to task about the "Mexicans" remark and one can "explain" that for them it is personal. It is. And, I suppose, the other non-white non-men candidates: Carson, Fiorina, Jindal, Cruz - who does support Trump - may have a similar problem.

But what about the white men: Huckabee, Santorum, Perry, Kasich, Paul, Christie, Pataki, Graham, Walker?

(I think that I've got all of them).

malthaussen

(17,205 posts)
2. Bernard Bailyn, Voyagers to the West
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 05:33 PM
Jul 2015

(Knopf, 1986; reprint Vintage Reprints, 1988)

This is a helluva good book about the peopling of America during the Colonial period, which is admittedly not the time period in question, but I love to push this book whenever I can. You can learn a lot about indentured servitude from this book. First half rigorous social history, with a chart or graph about every page; second half anecdotal, drawing from primary sources to highlight different aspects. Bailyn is still one of the best-regarded historians in the business, although he's slowed down a little since being born in 1922. Won the Pulitzer for this book (his second Pulitzer). No, I didn't study with him, I couldn't afford Harvard.

-- Mal

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
8. Um..."Paddy wagons" were named for the IRISH COPS, NOT IRISH CRIMINALS. She simply uses the
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 05:50 PM
Jul 2015

occasion TO SLUR OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS. to OUT-TRUMP TRUMP.

"Irishmen made up a large percentage of the officers of early police forces in many American cities. Thus, this theory suggests that the concentration of Irish in the police forces led to the term "paddy wagon" being used to describe the vehicles driven by police."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_van
(Granted, there is listed "an alternative theory," but that is poppycock.)

"The term paddy wagon (sometimes one word—paddywagon) usually denotes a large police vehicle used to transport multiple arrestees, and it sometimes refers to any large police vehicle regardless of its use.1 The term is of American origin, but its exact derivation is unknown.2

One theory about paddy wagon‘s origins is that the term came about due to the large numbers of Irish Americans on the police forces of some American cities.3"
http://grammarist.com/usage/paddy-wagon/

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
13. I'm thinking about that song "This old man, he played one, he played knick knack on
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:10 PM
Jul 2015

his thumb, with a knick knack paddy whack give your dog a bone..."

 

maindawg

(1,151 posts)
14. They all became Episcopalians.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:14 PM
Jul 2015

They hated the Gaelic Irish because they were pagans.Then they were pretty good fighters. They were driven out of Ireland by the Catholics and went on to become the West Virginia Blue Ridge mountain folk . They fought by defending their territory extremely well in the Revolution. They all became Episcopalians.

NBachers

(17,126 posts)
9. Potato famine Irish here. Conscription-dodging German on the other side.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 05:53 PM
Jul 2015

The German ancestor mailed his passport over to his brother, so his brother could dodge the draft and illegally enter the country.

I'll give Peggy credit for this.

Response to question everything (Original post)

niyad

(113,455 posts)
17. by the way, peggy dear, just because people are poor, does not mean they are not "the best"
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:15 PM
Jul 2015

you arrogant twit.

malthaussen

(17,205 posts)
24. She may have been thinking of the "wretched refuse" line...
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 09:17 AM
Jul 2015

... not quite understanding that "refuse" is not synonymous with "garbage."

-- Mal

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
19. Not surprising in the least. The repug
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 06:31 PM
Jul 2015

establishment wants to get rid of Trump in any
way they can. I wonder if any of their plans
will work. They hate the idea of him being in
the debates.

I love it though! Even better than 1212.

NotHardly

(1,062 posts)
22. New Colossus ... the sonnet on the Statue of Liberty
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 07:16 PM
Jul 2015


New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

JHB

(37,161 posts)
30. Because she's in "the elite" herself (presidential speechwriter, etc)
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 12:34 PM
Jul 2015

The upper crusties are who she identifies with.

 

lonestarnot

(77,097 posts)
32. So can that be carried into the white middle class working stiffs? Identification? Is that why
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 12:42 PM
Jul 2015

people vote against their own interests, because they identify with the top 1%, even though they are not richie rich or speech writers that identify with richie rich?

MineralMan

(146,318 posts)
33. And signs said, "No Irish Need Apply."
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jul 2015

Immigrants have often been treated poorly in the USA. Bigots we have with us always, it seems.

Trump is an abject moron. That is a fact.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
36. Anyone see the movie "Another Earth"?
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 01:02 PM
Jul 2015

In it, a woman (with a felony conviction) makes the case for her inclusion in a flight to another world by pointing out that our country was settled by more malcontents and criminals than those yearning for freedom.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

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