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damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:00 AM Jul 2015

Millennials Who Are Thriving Financially Have One Thing in Common

Millions of America’s young people are really struggling financially. Around 30 percent are living with their parents, and many others are coping with stagnant wages, underemployment, and sky-high rent.

And then there are those who are doing just great—owning a house, buying a car, and consistently putting money away for retirement.

These, however, are not your run-of-the-mill Millennials. Nope. These Millennials have something very special: rich parents.

These Millennials have help paying their tuition, meaning they graduate in much better financial shape than their peers who have to self-finance college through a mix of jobs, scholarships, and loans. And then, for the very luckiest, they’ll also get some help with a down payment, making homeownership possible, while it remains mostly unattainable for the vast majority of young adults."

*“Haves are turning their riches or their wealth into bigger wealth because they are investing in the housing market by simply living in a house,” says Gudell. This advantage is one that these Millennials will carry forward as they earn more than their degree-less peers, and save more than those who were forced to throw away tens of thousands of dollars on rent due to their inability to buy. In the future, they’ll have wealth to pass down to their own kids, continuing the cycle."

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/millennials-with-rich-parents/398501/

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Millennials Who Are Thriving Financially Have One Thing in Common (Original Post) damnedifIknow Jul 2015 OP
Ha! I knew the answer before I opened the post! gollygee Jul 2015 #1
The article sounds as if this is new yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #3
Yep... Phentex Jul 2015 #6
+1 daleanime Jul 2015 #12
That was my thoughts exactly AwakeAtLast Jul 2015 #25
Except that most generations since the New Deal had real opportunity for upward mobility. Those jwirr Jul 2015 #46
No, the large nmber of college graduates returning to their whathehell Jul 2015 #93
True but the percentage of boomers who went to college is small yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #96
Yup. 3% Igel Jul 2015 #9
Me, too. It's always this answer, year after year. nt valerief Jul 2015 #101
Yeah, no surprise there. Gormy Cuss Jul 2015 #2
By that time his or her job will have been shipped to Bombay hifiguy Jul 2015 #90
and so it goes...... n/t restorefreedom Jul 2015 #4
Only the Rich will be able to afford a College Education. PeoViejo Jul 2015 #5
Evil spawn? Indydem Jul 2015 #13
Not twisted PeoViejo Jul 2015 #15
It seems like decent people who are rich are not plentiful Stargazer99 Jul 2015 #33
Such a narrow world view. Indydem Jul 2015 #63
Millions? BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #87
"There are plenty on our side?????" Where are you getting your information? japple Jul 2015 #97
You are delusional marions ghost Jul 2015 #111
That's a weird thing to say (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #85
Wait... I'm confused. Is college something you should be able to afford... lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #95
Philadelphia is full of them. onehandle Jul 2015 #7
As Trump proudly announces he's worth 10 billion damnedifIknow Jul 2015 #10
The 'Creative Class' Populist_Prole Jul 2015 #47
Huge gentrification happening in major cities- DC, NY, Boston, Chi, Sea, Port, SF where appalachiablue Jul 2015 #99
There must be an equivalent with these guys to the NINJA loan. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #51
And military people get a nice benefits package madville Jul 2015 #8
...... daleanime Jul 2015 #14
I was going to suggest the same thing for those who don't have a Daddy Warbucks in Hestia Jul 2015 #16
I suggest it to many people madville Jul 2015 #100
How dare you!? Indydem Jul 2015 #17
Exactly madville Jul 2015 #28
And sometimes a bullet in the head. Would you know that from your lazyboy? "free" my ass.n/t jtuck004 Jul 2015 #19
90%+ never enter a combat zone madville Jul 2015 #24
When a person enters the military they are giving of themselves for government service, and jtuck004 Jul 2015 #29
I never said it wasn't earned or undeserved madville Jul 2015 #32
You wrote " free 4 year Post 9/11 GI Bill..."< It's not free at all. jtuck004 Jul 2015 #40
Yeah I paid $1800 to buy into the old GI Bill madville Jul 2015 #42
Yeah. <G> n/t jtuck004 Jul 2015 #45
I know, seriously, what the fuck! J_J_ Jul 2015 #27
You have no idea AwakeAtLast Jul 2015 #30
Thank you for your service madville Jul 2015 #38
Providing they don't get slaughtered in one of our wars (like for oil) Stargazer99 Jul 2015 #34
My husband served before the Vietnam War. He was able to go to college only because JDPriestly Jul 2015 #41
Coast Guard and Navy are good too madville Jul 2015 #53
Joining is a deal with the devil, though. Not only do you risk putting yourself in grave danger, Arugula Latte Jul 2015 #61
So who is Obama slaughtering brown people for? Indydem Jul 2015 #64
Top corporations benefitting from U.S. military action Arugula Latte Jul 2015 #73
Did you actually write that? BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #88
In the medium run, each and every oil company in the world hifiguy Jul 2015 #91
Yes, those benefits have proven very helpful to me. JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2015 #68
Those are good things about the modern benefits madville Jul 2015 #70
They also get dead in illegal wars of aggression. n/t PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #110
I knew the punch line before I read the article. NV Whino Jul 2015 #11
Let me offer a more nuanced view Proud Public Servant Jul 2015 #18
"We just need policies that compel that rich country to act like the rich parent it is." < It does jtuck004 Jul 2015 #22
Thank you very much for your daughter's story. And especially the last line. jwirr Jul 2015 #48
Rent in Los Angeles is absolutely ridiculous. Initech Jul 2015 #20
I don't see how people can afford to live here. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #37
Yeah I'm looking at relocating to Colorado at some point. Initech Jul 2015 #58
it will be more affordable fizzgig Jul 2015 #67
Same here in the DC area. alarimer Jul 2015 #69
My daughter lived in L.A. for two years DFW Jul 2015 #74
I loved the coastline and surfing in CA but came back home to TN because of high cost of living Skeeter Barnes Jul 2015 #83
I'm a millennial who is thriving (by the standards of the article) linuxman Jul 2015 #21
YMMV. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #31
And it doesn't require a college degree either Go Vols Jul 2015 #44
Construction jobs can't be outsourced hifiguy Jul 2015 #92
self taught? working on linux? J_J_ Jul 2015 #39
Nope, I just needed a username and I like the OS linuxman Jul 2015 #102
This concept really is not a new concept at all. hamsterjill Jul 2015 #23
But a university education was not so hard to pay for. It was less expensive, especially JDPriestly Jul 2015 #35
This should be it's own OP. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #71
Actually, the older generation, those of us who had it easier JDPriestly Jul 2015 #79
Just look at the University of California system Prism Jul 2015 #76
+1000. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #78
This is why Bernie's message should be important to African-Americans. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #26
When I graduated,1963, jomin41 Jul 2015 #36
They're white? n/t 951-Riverside Jul 2015 #43
Before the GI Bill moondust Jul 2015 #49
Yes. And 90% of these income/class stories are based on a myth WestCoastLib Jul 2015 #54
It's not a myth. moondust Jul 2015 #57
Unique set of circumstances 1939 Jul 2015 #62
Very true, but 90% of America hasn't digested that yet (nt) Recursion Jul 2015 #86
"people who have money don't lack for money" MisterP Jul 2015 #50
When did parents helping out their kids become news? I'm a Boomer, and MY parents gave me $$$$$$ to WinkyDink Jul 2015 #52
Living with their parents doesn't necessarily mean they're struggling financially. pnwmom Jul 2015 #55
There are three basic requirements for success in a capitalist system: Maedhros Jul 2015 #56
Actually, I would say drive + intelligence + opportunity AZ Progressive Jul 2015 #106
Opportunity is directly correlative to capital. Maedhros Jul 2015 #112
There is something deeper here. PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #109
These are the students who are rich IN college daredtowork Jul 2015 #59
Yep, am spending a ton of money trying to keep my older daughter from taking loans to pay college stevenleser Jul 2015 #60
Another thing left out is that millenials will receive the yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #65
They'll just have to wait ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2015 #66
Lol. Too funny. I hope you guys live forever. yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #72
I disagree mcar Jul 2015 #75
They populate HGTV. CrispyQ Jul 2015 #77
Really sick of the click bait headlines oberliner Jul 2015 #80
I personally know many millennials Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #81
That's pretty much the way it is in the rest of the world Major Nikon Jul 2015 #82
Don't forget having children FLPanhandle Jul 2015 #84
Whoda thunk it? I mean really. hifiguy Jul 2015 #89
My eldest is 25. He has a car, a truck, a harley, a wife, a job, a dog, and a 3br house. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #94
you know it, Jeff Skittles Jul 2015 #98
"How can I afford college?" lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #103
one of the problems now is Skittles Jul 2015 #113
Fully agree. Credential creep is a big money maker for colleges. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #115
"credential creep" Skittles Jul 2015 #116
My parents aren't rich RoccoRyg Jul 2015 #104
The people who are best off are the ones that early on realize that life is a game... AZ Progressive Jul 2015 #105
And most don't give a damn about anyone else, having endured the hardship of inherited wealth. nt kelliekat44 Jul 2015 #107
Even the offspring of the rich are getting richer! Emelina Jul 2015 #108
Rich parents. This is exacly why we need to elect Bernie, and give every kid real opportunity. nt Zorra Jul 2015 #114
Post removed Post removed Jun 2017 #117
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
3. The article sounds as if this is new
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:16 AM
Jul 2015

This article could have been written in every generation since the beginning of time.

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
6. Yep...
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:21 AM
Jul 2015

was true when I was in school. The kids I saw buying cars and houses were ones who didn't have a lot of student loans or other debt once they graduated. I was jealous!

AwakeAtLast

(14,132 posts)
25. That was my thoughts exactly
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:33 AM
Jul 2015

I know we Gen Xers have that in common. Most of us will probably never recover.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
46. Except that most generations since the New Deal had real opportunity for upward mobility. Those
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 12:10 PM
Jul 2015

on the bottom had some chance of getting into a good paying job. Many of those jobs are overseas. And college has never cost more than it does today. And housing....more expensive.

You are correct this has happened in the past but the wealth divide has never (almost never -1929) been bigger. Not has it ever been more expensive to overcome that.

whathehell

(29,069 posts)
93. No, the large nmber of college graduates returning to their
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 08:05 PM
Jul 2015

parents' home to live is relatively recent.

Most of the college educated boomers lived ndependently after they graduated.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
96. True but the percentage of boomers who went to college is small
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 08:26 PM
Jul 2015

Compared to today. It will get worse as the everyone should go to college continues. Somebody still has to do regular jobs that used to be held by HS and GED. Now held by bachelors because a huge percentage is going to college.

Igel

(35,332 posts)
9. Yup. 3%
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:49 AM
Jul 2015

The article's hard to follow.

We know 30% or so of Millennials (the article's #s) return to the nest.

We know, likewise, 46% went to college, at least for a while. Of those, 61% (28% of Millennials) got some help with college expenses. Note that includes letting them live at home, not just doling out money for them. And that's "some help", not "daddy paid for it all."

Of that 61% of Millennials getting help for college from their parents (28% of the cohort), 43% became homeowners by the end of the study's time interval. So that's 43% of 61%, meaning 12% of Millennials. A quarter of them get help with down payments, or 3% of Millennials. The article puts the larger of the stats up front; you have to read down further and sometimes calculate things yourself for a more accurate picture. (That's because the Zillow person who actually provided all the numbers wanted to do it that way to show that that many are "unfairly" shut out of the real estate market. Who knew, an analyst working for a large real-estate industry firm wants to say access to that market is hampered by incomes.)

Quick: Of the 30% who are at home, how many went to college?

And what state are the 55% "in between" sofa-surfing and buying in, besides "in between"?

No, it doesn't give that information. Nor information about non-college kids who have bought a house. Nor even how choice of college, whether to accept the maximum in loans or scrimp, etc., affect things. Very messy, this business.

It does say, however, that a primary hurdle is where Millennials want to live--in cities where houses are more expensive.

It also seems to insist that you need 20% for a down payment. Yeah, it's a great idea. Not necessary, though.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
2. Yeah, no surprise there.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:16 AM
Jul 2015

It's always been true that having a fat account with the Bank of Mom & Dad was an advantage. It's just become a much bigger advantage with the combo of soaring college costs and fewer good paying entry-level jobs.

A recent study by the real-estate company Trulia laid it out this way: Imagine an individual who earns $50,000 and is shopping for a $200,000 home (the median U.S. income and house price). This person would like to put 20 percent down. If he or she follows the popular financial advice to save 10 percent of his or her annual pay, it’ll take him or her about eight years to have that down payment ready to go. If that same person has $26,000 of student debt, which means monthly payments of $280 based on a 10-year repayment plan, it’ll take this person closer to nine years.

But even these numbers are optimistic, with many Millennials owing monthly payments much more than $280 per month, and making much less than $50,000 a year. And in many markets, a $200,000 house is hard to come by.
 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
5. Only the Rich will be able to afford a College Education.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:17 AM
Jul 2015

Just like the old days. None of this unwashed masses competing with their evil spawn.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
13. Evil spawn?
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 10:48 AM
Jul 2015

Like FDR, JFK, and RFK?

Just because you are born into wealth, it doesn't make you evil. Likewise, being poor doesn't make you angelic.

What a twisted view of the world.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
15. Not twisted
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 10:56 AM
Jul 2015

just the Real-World view of a former Graduate Teaching Assistant who had to deal with them.

Stargazer99

(2,592 posts)
33. It seems like decent people who are rich are not plentiful
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:42 AM
Jul 2015

there are a few but they seem to be the exception and remember Roosevelt was treated very badly by the "upper class" (which was his own class). It takes courage and honesty to do what is morally correct and money seems to corrupt as one can see in our government now.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
63. Such a narrow world view.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 02:05 PM
Jul 2015

There are millions of 1%ers in this country that support Democratic candidates. They support "progressive" causes. They donate to programs for the poor and even start and run many of them.

They just aren't Douchebag Trump who feels the need to make everything he does into a spectacle.

That's why I shake my head about so many lambasting the 1% as if all of them are Trump or the Kochs. There are plenty on our side.

You think Obama raised the most money in history from poor people? You think Hillary is doing so well because she has connected with the food stamp crowd? Of course not.

Wealth =/= morality, compassion, or values. There is not an inverse relationship between the two for every wealthy person.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
87. Millions?
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 07:19 PM
Jul 2015

So you think 100% of the 1% are "decent?" Or just two million. Because the s on that million sort of messes up the math.

japple

(9,834 posts)
97. "There are plenty on our side?????" Where are you getting your information?
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 08:31 PM
Jul 2015

Fox News, Rupert Murdoch sources? I know there are wealthy progressive folks out there, but they are a distinct minority of the 1%-ers. Sources, please.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
111. You are delusional
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 11:32 AM
Jul 2015

--the 1% are in NO WAY on our side.

There is NO substantial evidence for your absurd claim. The vast majority of the wealthy 1% are extremely selfish and protective of CORPORATE interests.

(Exception mainly a handful of actors/musicians with a heart).

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
95. Wait... I'm confused. Is college something you should be able to afford...
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 08:20 PM
Jul 2015

... or is it a ticket to a successful financial life?

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
7. Philadelphia is full of them.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:22 AM
Jul 2015

Philly is becoming a haven for startups. Storefronts and offices opening everywhere with a population of hipster tech types in expensive clothes. 'Co-working' spaces are filled before they even open.

I'm a designer and have some dealings with them, mostly socially.

'So what's your product?'

'I don't have a product.'

'Who is your client?'

'I don't have a client.'


Invariably I find out that they are working on spec and their living expenses are covered by daddy.

damnedifIknow

(3,183 posts)
10. As Trump proudly announces he's worth 10 billion
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:54 AM
Jul 2015

Without daddy Trump wouldn't be Trump:

"In March 2011 Forbes estimated Donald Trump's net worth to be $2.7 billion, with a $60 million salary. Many praise and analyze his “success” as if it were self-made, and they fail to attribute the proper credit to others in society where it is deserved. Despite what Trump may espouse, his success would have been in no way possible without his father"


http://www.alternet.org/story/156234/exposing_how_donald_trump_really_made_his_fortune%3A_inheritance_from_dad_and_the_government%27s_protection_mostly_did_the_trick

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
47. The 'Creative Class'
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 12:21 PM
Jul 2015

As a group to be wooed by politicians developers alike by local COC types wanting to gentrify former working class areas to whitewash the erosion of the working class' economic viability.

Idle rich hipsters, I'll call them.

appalachiablue

(41,161 posts)
99. Huge gentrification happening in major cities- DC, NY, Boston, Chi, Sea, Port, SF where
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:17 PM
Jul 2015

wealthy hipsters have housing, stores and schools that cater to them; sky high property costs and rents; displaced local working people and their housing, services and jobs with nowhere to go. Like Rahm in Chicago, RE, tech cos. and many others who know to feed off this population and generation. Prior to the 90s artists often gravitated to cities, no more. 'Creative, artistic, curators' my a*s.

Hard hit, over expanded suburbs that never had the social services kind of infrastructure of cities are becoming zombielands, and the many blighted, job gutted, once thriving cities like Balto., Cleveland, Buffalo, Detroit and more are in continual decline. Prisons are doing well though. There was an article here a few months ago about residents in a smaller town/city that almost rioted to try to get back the prison that moved away because they needed the jobs. A sick country; didn't have to be this way. But like Chris Hedges says, progress isn't linear like we think.

In the 90s a friend in Seattle, originally from the east knew a high school teacher with 2 degrees who spent his summers cleaning carpets in expensive, almost empty homes of junior execs. from Microsoft and other tech cos. They bought for the deduction and investment, were single, rarely home, no spouse or kids. > Reaganomics.

madville

(7,412 posts)
8. And military people get a nice benefits package
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:46 AM
Jul 2015

Tuition Assistance while active duty and a free 4 year Post 9/11 GI Bill to use within 15 years that also pays living expenses. Plus 0-down VA mortgages with no PMI, it's a nice financial springboard for young people.

 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
16. I was going to suggest the same thing for those who don't have a Daddy Warbucks in
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 10:56 AM
Jul 2015

the background. A person doesn't have to have it all right now but if willing to wait can get what they want in the end.

madville

(7,412 posts)
100. I suggest it to many people
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 09:40 PM
Jul 2015

I had nothing when I joined and got a degree and good jobs because of it.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
17. How dare you!?
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 10:57 AM
Jul 2015

Pointing out that serving in the military could springboard someone just like having a rich daddy!?

Well I never!

But no, seriously; too many people overlooks the effect that the benefits granted to veterans in the post wwii era created the middle class and the era of American growth.

When boomers eschewed that lifestyle, refused help from their "square" parents, and didn't get that leg up, they reset progress for their children; the millennials.

madville

(7,412 posts)
28. Exactly
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:34 AM
Jul 2015

I never said it was not earned or deserved, I have benefited from it myself.

You said it perfect, it's a good financial head start financially in a young person's life.

madville

(7,412 posts)
24. 90%+ never enter a combat zone
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:32 AM
Jul 2015

I got a degree on active duty and was able to transfer my full GI Bill to my son, it's a great benefit and puts you ahead of the game.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
29. When a person enters the military they are giving of themselves for government service, and
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:36 AM
Jul 2015

the benefits after are part of the compensation for their labor. Whether they get shot at or let someone else get shot at.

Not free - anyone who was really in the military earns it. You should know that.

madville

(7,412 posts)
32. I never said it wasn't earned or undeserved
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:42 AM
Jul 2015

They are great benefits for a young person to graduate college or technical school debt free and be ahead in life financially.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
40. You wrote " free 4 year Post 9/11 GI Bill..."< It's not free at all.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:50 AM
Jul 2015

Anytime I hear someone use the word "free" in describing how people get something, it makes me sit up.

It's not free. They just don't have write a check for the tuition because it has already been written by their service. I think that is important to remember.

Seems like a minor point until one forgets what it really costs.

madville

(7,412 posts)
42. Yeah I paid $1800 to buy into the old GI Bill
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 12:02 PM
Jul 2015

Instead of free, how about " no out of pocket costs" for the new one?

 

J_J_

(1,213 posts)
27. I know, seriously, what the fuck!
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:33 AM
Jul 2015

More of our troops are committing suicide than even died in the wars because of what our government is making them do to innocent people.

Almost 300,000 died while waiting to get in the VA.

They send our troops to kill and die for corporate profit, and liberals would actually encourage young people to sign up.

Freaking twisted!

AwakeAtLast

(14,132 posts)
30. You have no idea
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:37 AM
Jul 2015

what my family went through. VA benefits are helpful, but will never make up for what we experienced.

madville

(7,412 posts)
38. Thank you for your service
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:48 AM
Jul 2015

The thread is about younger people having the benefit of earning education debt free and TA and the GI Bill are great ways to do that, I'm endorsing them, they have benefitted me greatly.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
41. My husband served before the Vietnam War. He was able to go to college only because
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:50 AM
Jul 2015

of the GI bill. The air force is a good bet. The training is excellent.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
61. Joining is a deal with the devil, though. Not only do you risk putting yourself in grave danger,
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:53 PM
Jul 2015

you risk being put in a position where you're ordered to slaughter innocent brown people (and why? U.S. corporate profit, of course), which would be even worse, to me. And then you might take on a lifetime's worth of PTSD.

Not worth it, IMO.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
64. So who is Obama slaughtering brown people for?
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 02:09 PM
Jul 2015

Who is the corporate beneficiary of our war against ISIL and our other military actions?

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
73. Top corporations benefitting from U.S. military action
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 03:31 PM
Jul 2015

in the past dozen years include Lockheed, Boeing, BAE, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Northrup Grumman, EADS, Finmeccania, L-3 Communications, United Technologies. Most of that is Iraq related.

Are you denying that we invaded Iraq for corporate profit and needlessly slaughtered tens and tens of thousands of people for this aim?

My point stands. We have invaded countries in the past and mass murdered people for no honorable reason. It can happen again in the future.

When you join the military, you can't say, "Oh, I only want to be involved in small-scale operations with a limited anti-terrorist objective that I agree is necessary for actual 'defense' of the United States." No. You are putting yourself out there as someone who might be asked to mow down innocents at the pleasure of Dick Cheney/PNAC types.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
91. In the medium run, each and every oil company in the world
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 07:52 PM
Jul 2015

and company that provides services to them. The names Halliburton and Bechtel ring any bells?

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,362 posts)
68. Yes, those benefits have proven very helpful to me.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 02:36 PM
Jul 2015

I didn't realize there was such a steep "upside" to getting drafted. GI Bill and VA benefits were a big plus.

On the other hand, when I went to college, the state kicked a lot of money to the universities, so tuition was cheap. Now the tuition is high and the annual increases are way above inflation.

madville

(7,412 posts)
70. Those are good things about the modern benefits
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jul 2015

The newer GI Bill typically pays 100% of tuition, books and living expenses equal to E-5 BAH.

The VA loan is a great pathway to home ownership as well for people in this age range.

Plus in the modern volunteer military the member is in much greater control about what job they do depending on what rating or MOS they select.

I know many people under 30 that have gotten degrees with zero $$$$ out of pocket and bought homes with $0 down and no PMI. Them being that position early will greatly benefit them financially as well as their children.

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
18. Let me offer a more nuanced view
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:00 AM
Jul 2015

My daughter is one of those millennials who is doing just fine -- great, in fact. She only has a bachelor's degree (a humanities degree routinely mocked as "useless" by lots of people who fail to understand the value of critical thinking and communication skills) but has been working since the day she graduated; she got her job on her own, without utilizing any connections or alumni networks. Three years in, at age 25, she is now making a salary that puts her in the top 20% of all US income earners, regardless of age. She lives on her own and could easily afford a car if she wanted one (as a city-dweller, she doesn't); she can't afford to buy a home yet but could do so by age 30 if she chose to; meanwhile, instead, she's been socking away money for retirement and has a healthy 401k.

My wife and I are not rich. I'm a government worker and my wife has an unconventional and inconsistent work history (this year, in fact, our daughter will out-earn her). Nor do we come from rich families; our parents, in fact, have no savings and live on social security.

So how is she doing so well? Two things mattered:

1) Lack of student debt. We cut a deal on education with our daughter early on: we'll take care of college, but nothing more. I know not every parent can afford that; hell, we couldn't afford it (she graduated with between $30-40k in debt, which we have taken on, and that was after getting tens of thousands of dollars in financial air from her school). But it was clear to us that college costs might hobble us, but they would absolutely cripple her, so we bit the bullet. I am not saying all parents should do this. What I am saying is that sensible education financing policies that allow students to graduate with minimal debt are essential to young people succeeding.

2) Health care. My daughter has health concerns that would complete constrain her finances if she did not have access to affordable health care. She gets it through her employer, but thanks to Obamacare she could get it regardless.

Long story short: kids don't need rich parents; they have a rich country. We just need policies that compel that rich country to act like the rich parent it is.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
22. "We just need policies that compel that rich country to act like the rich parent it is." < It does
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:04 AM
Jul 2015

if one already rich. Ask any bank$ter/donor or their political lapdogs.

For the 99%, however, it's hit and miss, with a lot more miss than hit.

Initech

(100,095 posts)
20. Rent in Los Angeles is absolutely ridiculous.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:03 AM
Jul 2015

A lot of my friends are leaving for Nevada and Texas because rent is much cheaper than California. My friend lives in Reno and he and his wife pay like almost half of what they paid here for a 3 bedroom house where here that would barely get a one bedroom studio apartment. It's nuts.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
37. I don't see how people can afford to live here.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:48 AM
Jul 2015

We have a large house at the end of our street. The young people who live there share a kitchen and bath facilities. They just have rooms, and the rent is maybe $500 per month. It is insane. For people starting out, Los Angeles is not affordable. And then there is the water shortage. Too many people move to Los Angeles and other big cities because that is where the jobs are supposed to be. Certainly there are no jobs for young people in the really small towns in America in most parts of the country. It's sad because the quality of life once you have children is better in smaller cities and towns.

Initech

(100,095 posts)
58. Yeah I'm looking at relocating to Colorado at some point.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:30 PM
Jul 2015

I'll miss the weather and my sports teams but at least the rent will be affordable.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
67. it will be more affordable
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 02:34 PM
Jul 2015

but housing costs in a lot of places here is still high. boulder is outrageous, denver is a little better, but even fort collins is getting pricey.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
69. Same here in the DC area.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 02:50 PM
Jul 2015

I have what would be a good paying job anywhere else (well, decent, I suppose) but housing in this area is outrageous. I live and work in Annapolis and currently rent. When I was looking, rents within a reasonable commuting distance (say 15-20 miles) were all around $1200 for a one-bedroom apartment.

The problem for me has been that places with decent quality of life (blue states, mostly) cost so very much. Places with low costs of living are usually not places I'd like to live. I lived in Texas for a long time and there is not enough money in the world to induce me to move back to that hellhole, especially since the lunatics continue to be in charge of the asylum.

DFW

(54,425 posts)
74. My daughter lived in L.A. for two years
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 03:45 PM
Jul 2015

It was for her first two years of college. I forget what the rent was, but I do remember it was totally nuts. Some apartment complex in La Brea, and she shared with two other girls. I was so relieved when she was done there--until she moved to Manhattan.

Out of the frying pan, as they say.

On the other hand, she is still there, and earning her own way, although by NYC standards, it probably still only counts as slave wages. But she loves Manhattan, and has no desire to move back to Germany at this time, even if she could get a decent job in her field, which is by no means a certainty.

Whatever. It's her life, and hers to decide how to live.

Skeeter Barnes

(994 posts)
83. I loved the coastline and surfing in CA but came back home to TN because of high cost of living
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 05:59 PM
Jul 2015

out there. A little bachelor apartment in Mar Vista took damn near all the money I had. Got tired of living so close to homelessness so I left. I do miss it sometimes but things are just easier here. Had some fun times during those two years though.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
31. YMMV.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:39 AM
Jul 2015

There are always exceptions to the rule, people who applied for just the right job opening, who had just the right connection, who found some niche to fill for which there wasn't much competition. But even if 10% of millennials doing well don't have rich parents, that's another 90% who don't.

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
44. And it doesn't require a college degree either
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 12:07 PM
Jul 2015

My 26 yr old is an exceptional Union Ironworker,made 6 figures last year and will do better this year.

I did know people to put him in the right places early on,but hes his own man now living on Lake Michigan outside Milwaukee.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
92. Construction jobs can't be outsourced
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 07:56 PM
Jul 2015

and good for him. The skilled trades will always be in demand. Glad to hear he is a union man.

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
102. Nope, I just needed a username and I like the OS
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 12:04 AM
Jul 2015

I went into the Marines after HS, went to college on the gi bill, and now work as government contractor.

hamsterjill

(15,223 posts)
23. This concept really is not a new concept at all.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:07 AM
Jul 2015

I'm a baby boomer, and this same issue was rampant in my own generation. Some simply started out "ahead" of the rest of us in the same generation. The rest of us have spent out entire lives trying unsuccessfully to catch up, too.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
35. But a university education was not so hard to pay for. It was less expensive, especially
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:44 AM
Jul 2015

the relatively low tuitions at state universities.

Plus the job market called for educated, skilled, hard-working people.

There were many more good, factory jobs, Service representative jobs were available in the US. Stores hired lots of clerks to help customers find products on the shelves. When you called for service or information from your bank or any other business, you were not required to listen to a long list of possible choices and then finally after a half an hour of Musak, allowed to speak, just maybe to yet another machine, but possibly to a human being. And that person you spoke to spoke American English. That helped eliminate a lot of confusion and misunderstandings. Those jobs talking to customers are lost now. Nothing against the sweet young things in the Philippines or in India, but they have jobs that are generated in the US by US customers' questions and that work generated in the US is done in another country. Fewer jobs for Americans, especially young Americans.

It was very, very different.

In many fields today, you have to have a PhD just to get a full-time job. College teachers with only MAs or unfinished dissertations, for example, work as part-timers with no job security, no pension in the future, just living from semester to semester.

And that is true in most of the working world today. When I started working back in the 1950s and 1960s, the understanding was that employer and employee would give each other notice, usually two weeks, before firing or quitting. That is no longer true.

Much of this change is the result of Reaganism.

We need to make some big changes. Employers' tax deductions should be related not to how many new devices they buy that save the need to hire people but to how many people they employ and how much they pay their employees. Firing people should involve a financial penalty for the employer. We need to foster stability in the workplace and in families by making it just a little painful to fire employees. Rather than firing employees, employers should have an incentive to educate and work with employees who are not performing well.

As human beings, one of our greatest motivators is our desire to be appreciated, accepted and even admired. We need to teach employers how to use positive feedback as well as negative feedback to develop a strong team in the workplace. That would help our whole society to be more positive and more successful.

Millenials often get the worst end of our social problems.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
71. This should be it's own OP.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 03:09 PM
Jul 2015

And shared.

The "JEST WERK HARDER, BY GUMPTION!" set are seriously and willfully forgetting how incredibly easy they have it compared to this generation. The difference in opportunity abundance is simply not comparable at all.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
79. Actually, the older generation, those of us who had it easier
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 05:17 PM
Jul 2015

in terms of college costs (and it wasn't easy for us either. I worked at all kinds of jobs for room and board, etc. when I was in college.) have children who are having a tough time. We do know what it is like now.

And finding a job is so much harder now.

 

Prism

(5,815 posts)
76. Just look at the University of California system
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 04:12 PM
Jul 2015

Prior to 1970, it was free for residents. Here's an outstanding link outlining the entire UC history until 2014.

http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868/

Just some broadstrokes from recent years:

2005-06: Annual tuition and fees for resident UC undergraduates total $7,434. Annual tuition and fees for nonresident UC undergraduates total $25,254.

2009: The UC Board of Regents votes to increase tuition by 32 percent, pushing annual costs to more than $10,000. UC students protest by occupying buildings.

2011: The Occupy movement rocks UC campuses. Incorporated in Occupy’s message is discontent with budget cuts and rising tuition.

2011: For the first time, the total amount UC students pay in tuition exceeds the amount of funding the UC system receives from the state.

2011-12: Annual tuition and fees for resident UC undergraduates total $14,460. Annual tuition and fees for nonresident UC undergraduates total $37,338.


I'm back in school studying for a degree in Computer Science. Right now, I am taking everything humanly possible at the local comm college in addition to some "bootcamp" stuff in coding (some of which costs thousands and thousands themselves).

My plan is to finish up at UC Berkeley, but holy god am I trying to stave off that tuition hit as much as possible.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
26. This is why Bernie's message should be important to African-Americans.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:33 AM
Jul 2015

They lost out on the inherited wealth advantage generations ago. They have to make on their own without much help from their great-great-grandparents. They have the most to gain from the promise of affordable pre-school education and free college. They have the most to gain from a more equitable economic organization and from fairer taxes that will reverse the trend of wealth redistribution that has put more and more money into the hands of the inheritors and less and less into the hands of the doers.

And that is what working people are: doers.

Bernie Sanders can turn this around.

jomin41

(559 posts)
36. When I graduated,1963,
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 11:47 AM
Jul 2015

it was very unusual for someone to graduate with a large debt. My parents were not rich at all. We were plain working-class. But they were able to send me to good schools without borrowing a penny. I worked odd jobs for spending money and they were easy to find. I don't remember the numbers but the difference between wages and tuition has gone nuts.

moondust

(20,002 posts)
49. Before the GI Bill
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 12:39 PM
Jul 2015

wasn't college almost exclusively for rich people's kids?

Do colleges ever flunk out rich people's kids? Too much of that and administrators might have to cut back on their 5-figure raises.

WestCoastLib

(442 posts)
54. Yes. And 90% of these income/class stories are based on a myth
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:10 PM
Jul 2015

The myth of the "healthy middle class".

This middle class was created by a fluke set of circumstances (and wasn't even as widely spread and successful as it's romanticized to be), in the mid-20th century due to a number of factors that never existed before and are unlikely to exist ever again.

moondust

(20,002 posts)
57. It's not a myth.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:27 PM
Jul 2015

I lived it and I know better from experience.

But that was before thousands of factories in the U.S. were shut down and moved to Mexico and then China and Vietnam, costing millions of well-paying jobs that allowed a lot of Americans even without any college to work their way into the comfortable life of the middle class. Many worked well-paying jobs in harsh conditions so that their kids could go to college and do even better.

It's true that Europe and Asia weren't much competition for a while after WWII so the U.S. had a distinct advantage. But the U.S. economy generally worked much, much better for 99% of the population when the wealth recirculated, the top tax rate was around 90%, and excessive greed was not "good" but publicly scorned--before Reagan and the "trickle-down" swindle.

1939

(1,683 posts)
62. Unique set of circumstances
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:53 PM
Jul 2015

1. No one could buy anything during the depression because nobody had money. No one could buy much during WWII because civilian production was cut way back because of war production. At the end of the war, Europe and Asia had been destroyed. The people in the US had money to spend and the US was cranking out stuff to spend it on.

2. In the twenties, the US really clamped down on immigration. Very few people were getting in. In the 1930, people put off having kids because they didn't have jobs. During the 50s, very few people were coming of age and joining the workforce. Because of the above factors, the US had a labor shortage and unions had the whip hand.

3. By the time the mid-60s rolled around, immigration restrictions had begun to ease and the baby boomers came into the work force. Europe and Asia recovered their productive capacity. The scarcity of workers became a flood.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
52. When did parents helping out their kids become news? I'm a Boomer, and MY parents gave me $$$$$$ to
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:02 PM
Jul 2015

buy cars and a house, and they were strictly LOWER Middle-Class (like, a 900 sq. ft. house, no garage, and furniture from 1960).

pnwmom

(108,989 posts)
55. Living with their parents doesn't necessarily mean they're struggling financially.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:20 PM
Jul 2015

For many of those millennials, it should be a sign that they're saving money.

Once upon a time, I bought a car and put money in a savings account while I lived with my parents, and our son is living with us now and doing the same thing. He should be able to buy a house, too, eventually.

It's common in most of the world for 20 somethings to live with their parents till they're married, while here the idea used to be that everyone's supposed to be out at 18.

Letting your young adults continue to live at home is a simple way to help them save while they establish themselves.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
56. There are three basic requirements for success in a capitalist system:
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:24 PM
Jul 2015

1. Capital
2. Capital
3. Capital

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
106. Actually, I would say drive + intelligence + opportunity
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 05:58 AM
Jul 2015

- drive, in the sense of mega persistence, which also allows to get experience based knowledge. This is fueled by intense desire and optimism.

- intelligence, of course

- opportunity, which is perhaps the luck based part

- Mentors are also important, but drive + intelligence is what's needed to attract a mentor. Mentors can put you on the fast track to success.

Success in a capitalist system is basically an opportunity that is exploited by someone with an intense drive and the intelligence to take advantage of that opportunity. Someone like Edison had the opportunity to make the first light bulb, and he used mega persistence plus intelligence to try and fail, try and fail, until he found the right design for a light bulb.

An intense drive plus intelligence allows someone to attract and gather together the right people to help him / her to exploit the opportunity, as well as to get whatever else is needed to make success possible. Success is never guaranteed, but if someone has the intelligence and the drive, success is pretty much likely at some point in time.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
112. Opportunity is directly correlative to capital.
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 01:30 PM
Jul 2015

Consider two individuals with identical drive and intelligence, one is working class and one is a child of wealth.

One will struggle to pay for an education at a community college or state university. The other will have an all-expenses-paid adventure in the Ivy League.

One will graduate with a stifling amount of student loan debt, and will spend the first ten (maybe more!) years of his career struggling to pay it off. The other will graduate with no student debt, and will spend the first ten years of his career accumulating capital.

Who will have more opportunity?

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
109. There is something deeper here.
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 10:00 AM
Jul 2015

To make it in this system, you must support the goals of the current owners of capital, ie you must be willing to right off many millions of your fellow human beings as undeserving of just treatment and a decent life.


I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.

https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jay_Gould


This is exactly what is occurring around the globe.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
59. These are the students who are rich IN college
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:39 PM
Jul 2015

Developers are actually building luxury apartments in college towns FOR students. Often parents buy the condo or house as an investment: the student lives in the place while they go to college while the parents make more money off the student's housemates/roommate. Then the condo/house can be sold at a profit after college.

Poor people go into debt during college. Rich people with good credit and liquid money to invest are positioned to make bank off the situation. Poor people can't do this.

At the same time, rich people may be contributing to a housing crisis in the local community if they think this property is such a good investment that they buy up more units and help push up a speculation bubble. The people who need to live there are competing with out-of-towners who are just looking for investment properties. In some cases these investors are from foreign countries. China is an avid investor in college towns because those properties are considered stable investments. Real estate investment firms go on junkets to Hong Kong to sell packages of US properties for Chinese people to invest in. Local real estate firms get in on the action by collecting local properties and packaging them for the bigger fish.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
60. Yep, am spending a ton of money trying to keep my older daughter from taking loans to pay college
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 01:46 PM
Jul 2015

For those who are confused having seen my baby daughters pics, I have two daughters, one 3.5 months old, and one who is 21 and will be a senior in college next year.

My older daughter is going to a private college and has not taken out any loans through three years. But both of my parents, my ex wife, her husband, her husbands mother, and me and my wife have all been paying out tons of money to make that happen, that includes partial academic and sports scholarships. And she will graduate with no debt. The seven of us never agree on anything else, but we agree she should not take out student loans because they are horrible.

I feel bad for anyone else caught in the student loan trap.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
65. Another thing left out is that millenials will receive the
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jul 2015

Biggest estates in history. Gen X will be part of that too. They are saying that inheritance will be huge over the next 50 years.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,362 posts)
66. They'll just have to wait ...
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 02:32 PM
Jul 2015

... we selfish boomers are going to live for as long as we can, so don't count on a quick inheritance.

"Soylent Green" could fix that, though.

mcar

(42,363 posts)
75. I disagree
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 03:48 PM
Jul 2015

My millennial son is doing very well. He has a great job that he loves and is rising through the ranks. He has taken over paying the college loans we took out for him. He is saving for retirement, traveling and enjoying life.

All this with an English degree.

We are far from rich. My husband is a public school teacher here in Florida. I work part time as a freelance writer.

CrispyQ

(36,492 posts)
77. They populate HGTV.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 04:49 PM
Jul 2015

Rich kids in their 20s buying $750k houses & then spend more to update it. Cuz you know, when you're in your 20s, you should have a house almost as nice as mom & dad's.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
80. Really sick of the click bait headlines
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 05:20 PM
Jul 2015

There was a once a day when legitimate news sources like The Atlantic wouldn't stoop to that kind of thing.

Snobblevitch

(1,958 posts)
81. I personally know many millennials
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 05:35 PM
Jul 2015

who are thriving without rich parents and who are also making student loan payments. It is never a good idea to assume everyone of an age group are all the same.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
82. That's pretty much the way it is in the rest of the world
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 05:43 PM
Jul 2015

Policies that favor the rich have destroyed the American dream.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
84. Don't forget having children
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 06:21 PM
Jul 2015

I look at my daughter and her friends.

The ones who had children early are doing badly.

The ones who are focused on school/jobs and are childless are doing great even though their parents are poor.

Children are incredibly expensive and are a difference maker in one's financial security.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
89. Whoda thunk it? I mean really.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 07:45 PM
Jul 2015

Having rich (and connected) parents paves the way to success.

Shocked, I am SHOCKED, I tell you!

Money and riches replicate money and riches. It sure pays off big to be in the lucky sperm club.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
94. My eldest is 25. He has a car, a truck, a harley, a wife, a job, a dog, and a 3br house.
Thu Jul 16, 2015, 08:18 PM
Jul 2015

He even has a pool table and a rec room.

What he doesn't have is a college degree, student debt, affluent parents or an aversion to pumping septic tanks.

Maybe the problem is something else.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
103. "How can I afford college?"
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 12:21 AM
Jul 2015

If it doesn't generate a compensatory income, you can't.

In fact, you shouldn't.

Life is a math problem, and jr high equipped all of us with enough skill to solve that particular one.

66% of 22 year-olds enter the workforce competing with one another for the job in the city that will finance the apartment that served as the set for Friends. Most will be disappointed. The winners will have parents who could afford to finance a few additional years of unpaid internship.

If you're going to be a barista anyway, better to be one without college debt.

Learn to weld. Learn to turn wrenches. Learn to paint houses. Learn plumbing. You'll only be competing with 33% of your peers.

Use the income to buy a house near the library.

Skittles

(153,171 posts)
113. one of the problems now is
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 07:08 PM
Jul 2015

it would seem that more and more, college degrees are required for jobs that 20 years ago did not need a college degree - a lot of it is a huge scam

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
115. Fully agree. Credential creep is a big money maker for colleges.
Sat Jul 18, 2015, 02:28 PM
Jul 2015

i.e. degree programs in "social media" are a thing.

RoccoRyg

(260 posts)
104. My parents aren't rich
Fri Jul 17, 2015, 12:33 AM
Jul 2015

But they put me on the College Illinois plan since my birth, which allows prepaid credits at the rates of the date paid. Combined with a year of community college, scholarships and savings from the high school pizza-making job, I earned a Masters with $4,000 in debt.

I'm not trying to grandstand, I'm just saying an affordable degree is possible given years of preparation and savings. Of course, I would advise the youngsters to only go to college if you know exactly what you want to do and a degree is necessary to obtain that career. Don't just go because it's expected of you.

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