General Discussion

David Zephyr

(22,785 posts) Sat Jul 18, 2015, 08:58 PM Jul 2015

Jeb Bush's military draft record deserves scrutiny: DU's symboman pointed this out long ago.

Way back in May of 2004, the Du's symbolman posted the following with regards to Jeb Bush and the draft in 1971.

Jeb Bush and I are exactly the same age..

We graduated High School the same year and both of our draft numbers were the same, as we had the same birthday..

that draft Number was 26..

I believe that year they were expecting to be drafting up to the number 170 or so and seeing the writing on the wall I talked a pal into joining the US Air Force with me that year (1971)..

It looked like I didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting out of it so rather than take the 2 year draft into the dreaded "ground pounders" (army) I chose the USAF because I thought I could just fly over and drop pretty colors on dirt and then fly away for only 4 years, keeping farther away from the action, the diseases, the rats, etc, etc..

How Bush got out of it is a good question, one that I would like to know myself..

The war was winding down tho and I'm pretty sure that they got past my draft number, but I've never been all that interested in finding out.. but now I am

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1674243#1674340

22 replies

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Highlight:

Jeb Bush's military draft record deserves scrutiny: DU's symboman pointed this out long ago. (Original Post) David Zephyr Jul 2015 OP

Twin sons of different mothers! HassleCat Jul 2015 #1

Where is symbolman? Gidney N Cloyd Jul 2015 #2

What are the odds that a family with LuvNewcastle Jul 2015 #3

13 kids in all madokie Jul 2015 #12

Your parents must have been worried sick. LuvNewcastle Jul 2015 #13

Rich, well connected friends. George II Jul 2015 #14

With the Bush nsame, I'm surwe they came up with some reason he couldn't serve. napi21 Jul 2015 #4

Recommended. H2O Man Jul 2015 #5

I'm sure he had other priorities as the time. QED Jul 2015 #6

Or like Limbaugh, a brain tumor....ummm, sorry, anal cyst0 George II Jul 2015 #15

Pssh. You think someone else in the media wants to be Rather'd? Doctor_J Jul 2015 #7

He was in prep school for the first half of 1971--he graduated Phillips Andover that year. MADem Jul 2015 #8

He was born in 1953 Major Nikon Jul 2015 #18

I think the Globe article sums it up pretty well. MADem Jul 2015 #19

Here is Joe Conason's report: David Zephyr Jul 2015 #9

Wow. Lots of hay could be made out of that; glad it's out here. nt babylonsister Jul 2015 #10

"Neither of Bush's two draft-age sons went to Vietnam..." David Zephyr Jul 2015 #11

I miss Symbolman. Thanks for bringing up one of his cogent questions that is important now. Hekate Jul 2015 #16

Where in the world is Symbolman? Blue_In_AK Jul 2015 #17

Jeb Bush praising the Swiftboaters: Blue_Tires Jul 2015 #20

this should be spread around. MBS Jul 2015 #22

Too important to drop nt riderinthestorm Jul 2015 #21

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)

1. Twin sons of different mothers!

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:06 PM

Jul 2015

Oh, man. Your story is almost exactly like mine. I was up for the draft in 1972, and I had number 19, so I would have gone fairly early. I think they got to 55 or 60 that year, but I was already in, so I paid no attention. I joined the Navy and got into a technical field, where I knew I would never see combat up close and personal. I have kind of an erratic attention span, so I figured I would probably get shot the first week in Vietnam, and I had no confidence at all I would be able to fire at the enemy. Since they got past 26 in my year, I say they definitely got that far in your year. We all know the story of how his brother walked away from the Air Guard, so it would be interesting to find out how Jeb didn't get drafted.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,835 posts)

2. Where is symbolman?

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:07 PM

Jul 2015

Seems like he was in some dire straits a few years ago but I don't recall exactly.

LuvNewcastle

(16,846 posts)

3. What are the odds that a family with

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:11 PM

Jul 2015

so many sons escaped the draft in the Vietnam Era? Sure is interesting to me. Someone should write a book about how other large families with sons fared during Vietnam and compare them to the Bush family. It was either a matter of influence or magic.

madokie

(51,076 posts)

12. 13 kids in all

Reply to LuvNewcastle (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:59 PM

Jul 2015

8 boys/men. I was drafted in the summer of '67 so I joined the navy and went in on Sept 7, '67. My brother 4 years older than me was drafted soon after me and he entered the navy in January of 68, Younger brother by 4 years was drafted and he joined the Navy also a couple years or so later. So there were three of us in the Navy at the same time. My brother that is 4 years older than me came to 'Nam on the USS Ranger and they asked for our permission for both of us to be in a war zone at the same time. if either of us would have said no one of us would have been flown out of the region while the other was there. We both agreed.

After boot came I went back as a boot camp company commander's aid, (Adjutant) and was originally assigned my older brothers company but someone caught that we were brothers so they gave his company to one of my friends and I took another company. We'd see each other on the tarmac from time to time but we were not supposed to fraternize. I'd sneak over to his barracks a few times to visit and luckily I never got caught. I'd have been in serious trouble had I been.

LuvNewcastle

(16,846 posts)

13. Your parents must have been worried sick.

Reply to madokie (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:06 PM

Jul 2015

The only thing George and Babs had to worry about was bailing their boys out of trouble with the law. When I look at the Bushes I think that there is precious little justice in this country.

George II

(67,782 posts)

14. Rich, well connected friends.

Reply to LuvNewcastle (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:20 PM

Jul 2015

napi21

(45,806 posts)

4. With the Bush nsame, I'm surwe they came up with some reason he couldn't serve.

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:15 PM

Jul 2015

Although I'd love to hear what excuse they used, the answer doesn't really matter. As far as I'm concerned, Dan Rather had the proof that "W" was AWOL and you see who THAT info affected! (Dan lost his job!)

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)

5. Recommended.

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:17 PM

Jul 2015

Good to see you here, Friend David!

QED

(2,747 posts)

6. I'm sure he had other priorities as the time.

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:17 PM

Jul 2015

George II

(67,782 posts)

15. Or like Limbaugh, a brain tumor....ummm, sorry, anal cyst0

Reply to QED (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:28 PM

Jul 2015

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)

7. Pssh. You think someone else in the media wants to be Rather'd?

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:26 PM

Jul 2015

Anyone who takes on the Bush family ends up ruined or dead.

MADem

(135,425 posts)

8. He was in prep school for the first half of 1971--he graduated Phillips Andover that year.

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:30 PM

Jul 2015

He took his chances, it turned out.... Interesting Jeb! article here:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2015/02/01/tumultuous-four-years-phillips-academy-helped-shape-jeb-bush/q6ccyHNOtP1n6kqDokMBfK/story.html#

A few weeks after graduation, on July 16, 1971, Bush filled out an index card on which he registered for the draft. (A copy of the card was obtained by the Globe under the Freedom of Information Act.) On the line requesting a contact, he listed his father, who continued to serve as Nixon’s United Nations ambassador: “Amb. George H. W. Bush, Waldorf Towers . . . New York City.”

Bush received a draft number of 26 on a calendar-based scale that went to 365, earning him a “1A” classification that meant he probably would have been drafted if the war continued at full pace.

But he avoided such a fate because the war was winding down — a fact for which some credit was due those of his generation who participated in protests that he had refused to join.

Bush’s mother, Barbara Bush, once told United Press International that Jeb had considered declaring himself a conscientious objector, adding that the family would have backed such a decision.

Bush said in the interview that he was “ambivalent” about the Vietnam War, and stood by a previous comment that he was “probably against” it, a view that he noted was shared by many of his peers. But he said he never considered being a conscientious objector.

“I registered. . . . I would have gone, I got the physical. I was declared 1A, and the draft was eliminated,” Bush said. Asked how voters considering him as a potential commander-in-chief might view his less-than-enthusiastic view of serving in Vietnam, Bush urged that it be seen in the context of that war and that time. “I was 18,” he said. “I’m 61 years old now.”

Unlike his brother George, who was a member of the National Guard from 1968 to 1974, Bush didn’t volunteer for any kind of military service. Nor did Bush follow his father and brother’s footsteps by going to Yale. He went instead to the University of Texas in Austin, majored in Latin American studies, graduated in an unusually speedy 2½ years, and married Columba.....

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)

18. He was born in 1953

Reply to MADem (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 10:55 PM

Jul 2015

Either none or very few men born in 1953 were inducted.

For 1953 births, the lottery was held on February 2, 1972 and the earliest he could have been inducted would have been 1973. In 1973 there were only 646 inductees and I'm not sure if any of those were born in 1953, but even if they were it would mean Jeb would have had a slim to none chance of induction even with a lottery number of 26.

MADem

(135,425 posts)

19. I think the Globe article sums it up pretty well.

Reply to Major Nikon (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 11:38 PM

Jul 2015

Low number, but he rolled the dice because he figured he wouldn't get bagged, and if he did get bagged, he was going to claim CO status and his momma had no problem with it. He went straight from PA to university in TX (that would have been in the fall of 71--or maybe he got a jump on it and went to summer school...?) to be near his true love, and the rest is history....! He was chugging through school in two and a half years, so he was probably regarded as "sincere" when it came to his studies.

And, as you note, with so few inductees, why bother with the kids in university? Makes no sense...

David Zephyr

(22,785 posts)

9. Here is Joe Conason's report:

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:34 PM

Jul 2015

Whatever Jeb Bush actually believes about his brother’s disastrous invasion of Iraq – a vexing issue since the former Florida governor and would-be GOP presidential candidate has now offered a few confusing answers – he once considered pretending to be a pacifist to protect his own privileged hide.

In 1972, according to Bush dynasty biographer Kitty Kelley, Jeb drew number 26 in the Vietnam draft lottery, a stroke of bad luck that likely meant his induction the following year.

Jeb then told his parents, George H.W. and Barbara, that he might file for “conscientious objector” status in order to avoid the draft. Applying to become a “C.O.” was a way out then available only to young men who opposed all war, usually on religious grounds — but not if, like Jeb, they merely opposed the conflict in Southeast Asia.

Barbara Bush said that her husband assured Jeb: “Whatever you decide…I will back you 100 percent,” regardless of his own military service in World War II and his full-throated support for the Vietnam War.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/pacifist-or-chickenhawk-how-jeb-almost-avoided-the-vietnam-draft/

babylonsister

(171,065 posts)

10. Wow. Lots of hay could be made out of that; glad it's out here. nt

Reply to David Zephyr (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:39 PM

Jul 2015

David Zephyr

(22,785 posts)

11. "Neither of Bush's two draft-age sons went to Vietnam..."

Reply to David Zephyr (Original post)

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 09:42 PM

Jul 2015

Neither of Bush's two draft-age sons went to Vietnam, and one, Jeb, considered filing for conscientious-objector status to avoid the war, according to Barbara Bush.

She said in an interview with United Press International in 1984 that her husband told Jeb, "Whatever you decide . . . I will back you 100 percent." Jeb eventually decided to submit to the draft, she said.

http://articles.philly.com/1992-10-11/news/26000431_1_son-jeb-war-policy-jeb-bush